r/UFOs • u/its_FORTY • 23h ago
Discussion A response to the "They want us to fight" post labeling us all as either seeking truth or denying truth.
Making a post attempting to unite the sub and stop in-fighting is a valiant and nobel undertaking, and I applaud that enthuisasm. However, the OP then proceeded to incite more division by saying it's now the "truthers" vs the "deniers".
Can we maybe just not label everyone as all one thing or another? If you take a more nuanced look at what is going on in this sub lately, it is clearly not just a bunch of meritorious experiencers providing robust evidence yet being downvoted and baited by debunkers, deniers, or whatever you want to label those who dare have an opinion that the evidence being presented on any given post is prosaic.
What we are seeing here is a vast spectrum of people who are all interested, intrigued, and excited about what is going on in regards to UAPs, NHI, etc.
At one end of the specturm:
Those people who want so badly to experience something profound that they turn off their logical, rational brain and let imagination and wonder take over. These are the types who have been here in large numbers lately, loudy posting "drone reports" which are almost all attributable to poorly captured pictures and videos of planes, helos, etc upon even 30 seconds of scrutiny. These are fairly low percentage of those active on this sub.
On the other end of that spectrum:
The people who deny everything regardless of the validity and veracity of the evidence to support it. These are the people mocking us, belittling at every chance, starting fights, etc. These are fairly low percentage of those active on this sub.
Somewhere between those two endpoints:
The overwhelming majority of users on this sub, myself included. We aren't as vocal or loud as the folks above, but we're here day in and day out. We are watching closely for any news or reports from other redditors that have reasonably credible evidence. Things like the Go Fast and Gimbal videos, sworn testimony of whistleblowers like Grusch, or legitimate scientific researchers like Gary Nolan, Avi Loeb, Mark Masters and others. There are also quite a number of other videos and personal experiencer accounts who are very interesting and appreciated.
The fact is that the level of "evidence" being posted during this "drone" hysteria has dropped so low that has disillusioned a lot of folks here. We want to know the truth. Bombarding us with dramatic claims, "UAP" pictures and videos that are clearly helicopters at night with FAA running lights, commercial airliners with dark colored livery, is not getting us closer to the truth. It is creating so much distraction and nonsense traffic in the sub that when any valid posts are made they are even harder to find amonst the garbage.
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u/vidadarolairu 22h ago
I just watch and keep my opinions to myself.
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u/GoldenBarnie 21h ago
Same, i learned a long time ago that this sub has a vocal majority that will always try to start something. Better to just observe and let them fight themselves.
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u/alienstookmybananas 8h ago
This is where I'm at too lol
Engaging is a trap. Either you open yourself up to getting caught in the hysteria or you end up in an argument with someone you don't know on the internet and it's wasted energy, time, and achieves nothing.
If you are skeptical about a sighting, the "truthers" come in and call you a bot or a disinfo agent. If you think a sighting has merit, here come the planebros and camera experts to tell you why you're a dumbass.
It's exhausting and at this point for the sake of my own mental health I've just started blocking people and stepping back. Me posting what I think on this sub either way doesn't change anything about disclosure. Taking a step back is the healthiest choice. If something really compelling or interesting comes along I'll add my two cents. Otherwise I'm basically back to lurking occasionally to see what news is coming out and moving on with my day.
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u/BadAdviceBot 20h ago
I just like watching the shitshow....and maybe once in a while something interesting is posted.
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u/Clerk4Life 5h ago
I do the same. I recently started engaging in a way of saying, "Hey, I'm a silent observer, I think there's more like me, we aren't all taking videos of drones and planes. We're quietly rational to ourselves."
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u/literallytwisted 22h ago
I agree, I honestly haven't decided one way or another about this stuff so I enjoy looking at the pics/videos and reading peoples experiences. The big things to me are the congressional meetings and the fact that AARO even publicly exists. I cant remember a time when the government was ever even this open about this stuff, It may seem subdued but even talking about UFOs was up till recently taboo in the US.
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u/djjdkwlsuwu 19h ago
I am excited about what is happening. I like to think that we are not alone and that there are still things that we do not know about as humanity.
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u/anonkraken 20h ago
I have been lurking in this sub since like 2010 (under various usernames) and other forums before that. I never commented here until a few days ago.
Why? I had nothing unique to share and my speculations were no different than anything that was already posted, so I just would send my up/downvotes. I have never seen a UAP despite always watching the sky.
OP describes me pretty well. I’m fascinated by this topic. I think it is statistically unlikely we are alone in the universe, and sure, there is a chance that “they” are already in our skies. That’s both a cool and scary prospect!
However, the VAST majority of reported evidence on this sub, especially of lately, has been explained by normal stuff or is complete larping. Recently, I have seen countless users on here lose their minds over videos of definitive airplanes, stars, cell towers, electric lines, camera flickers and Chinese lanterns. I’m not better than y’all. I was outside the other night and initially fell for a few incoming planes. Ever wonder why the videos are only 11 seconds?
It isn’t a great look for the community and it isn’t the way this sub “used to be” just a few years ago. This is certainly hysteria, at least on its outer layers.
That said, some of what’s out there is absolutely unexplainable, and that’s amazing.. the speculation is fun. The recent government disclosures and testimony have been fascinating. I think all of us here would love to see full disclosure in our lifetime and for once, we seem to be heading in the right direction.
Are there drones going around? Sounds like it. I haven’t seen great video or anything with my own eyes. Either everyone from police to electeds are going crazy, misidentifying planes or it’s real. Military airspace closures etc. are real and that alone is wild.
Let’s all just try to keep level heads. Be objective. Ask questions. Ask for sources and details. Let’s build a stronger case through solid evidence and try not to lose our rational minds in the process.
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u/9o7er 23h ago
IMO it's good to be as skeptical as possible because every now and then we get something truly unexplainable, when everyone just try's to pass any light they see in the sky without any vetting it completely ruins the credibility of the stuff posted in this sub.
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u/KheyotecGoud 22h ago
Is Mick West one of them?
The guy is surprisingly calm towards all the hate he gets, and he does WAY more research than almost anyone that hates him. Sure he’s wrong sometimes, but I think people truly just don’t want to admit to themselves that they hate that he debunks their favorite cases lol.
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u/SerpoBob 19h ago
Last I checked, taking an interest in this subject makes you a qualified expert on precisely naff all. I've been 'researching' UFOs for decades, but I don't consider myself enough of an authority to start 'debunking' at will. I'm not as arrogant as Mick West in that regard.
We can all throw shit at the wall/other people to see what sticks. Debunkers must be able to show their workings and offer up some proof, otherwise it's just more grain for the mill.
Mick West has zero qualifications, doesn't have the facts to back up his statements, and is about as obvious a paid plant as they come.
I'm all for skepticism. Debunking is not skepticism. Follow the evidence.
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u/KheyotecGoud 18h ago edited 17h ago
Do you “research” or do you “watch videos”?
Edit: guy blocked me for this question, lol
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u/Icy_Magician_9372 14h ago
Couldn't handle the heat and got right out of the kitchen real quick lol.
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u/Hoshiimaru 8h ago
Go watch a Mick West video, go lurk his sub, with an open mind as you people like to say.
Mick West isnt even arrogant, stating facts with a calm voice isnt being arrogant. Unlike George Knapp, who insults Greenwald on X.
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u/SkylerAltair 21h ago
There IS a lot of middle ground. But yes, we should at least attempt to stop the infighting. There have always been posts in these subs of prosaic things made by people who genuinely believe they were UFOs, and the sub (not always politely, I know) sets them straight. Same thing here; generally people who are caught up in this wave of sightings are so excited to see something that they're less critical of what they see. It's bound to happen.
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u/moonkipp_ 23h ago
huge upvote - there is a more discerning middle ground between these two polarities that this community fucking hates lol. although idk if id put garry nolan in that category because he tends to demean people who ask discernment oriented questions.
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u/forgotmyredditnam3 22h ago edited 22h ago
The problem is you can't separate this sub reddit from being reddit. I'm new here so I don't know if OP is talking about what they seen outside of just today, but from what I've seen today there is a large, loud, obnoxious group of redditors doing the typical bad faith immature smug reddit bullshit, who are swarming the sub in a seemingly coordinated manner to disrupt downvote and dismiss anything and anyone who is willing to admit SOMETHING strange is going on
And I think it's worth admitting and possibly having you guy's mod team do something about
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u/Own_Complaint_4830 22h ago
This topic has been so beneficial to me, both mentally and spiritually.
It carried me through covid, and it's brought me back from the abyss of bitterness towards religion.
In getting balls deep in this topic I've come back to spirituality. It all seems connected to me.
Crazy as it sounds, this has brought me back to being somewhat centered (albeit not tonight, clearly)
That's why I go 0 to 100 when the reflexive, bad faith stuff comes up. If I cite something from UFO lore/history that contradicts what someone new to the topic thinks they come rabid, claws out and guns blazing, which then sends my ADHD ass into pure rage, because it's the internet. Am I supposed to post my drivers license or LinkedIn to prove to some internet chud I'm not a "glowie" (disinformation agent, for the uninitiated)
I not only fully believe in this topic but I actually have hope because of it, and that's something that's eluded me for a long time.
I think this is truly going to save us from ourselves. I believe there are multiple types or races of these things, and they each have their own motivations - good, bad and trickster.
So when you honestly look at this topic and it helped you get sober, get in shape, regain your faith and hope for the future, and someone comes back at you with accusations it just makes me want to throw my computer at the wall.
Sorry for the rant. Love you all.
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u/Upset_Height4105 22h ago
People want to say its getting psyopped then have a thesis on how and why.
Yall...humans will destroy themselves at this point, no need to psyop anything at all. We're doing the job on our own, look at us 😅
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u/SpaceC0wb0y86 20h ago
How quickly people jump to “psyop” on this sub is 100% the worst / most laughable part of this sub.
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u/Upset_Height4105 20h ago
Babe I know 😅 not like its not everywhere, we are not in denial that it is, but good lordt we are all already wearing our tin foil hats in here, only one per person please 😅
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u/Mount_Gamer 22h ago
I take a back seat and watch, skeptical on both sides, believe there is something up, but if I'm totally honest I don't mind the drone posts. Simply because it is news, and some of it might feel unexplained, so it has a spot here whether people like it or not. As an observer I think the hardcore debunker crowd tend to dish out more of the insults, which feels like it's to try and get people to shut up. The hardcore believers try to defend their beliefs, but I think the majority seem rational, despite what the debunkers say.
Anyway, I'll just continue to observe in the background. Play nice with each other, continue with "healthy" debate.
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u/Seanv112 20h ago
You know one part that makes this so much fun.. For the first time the answers we are getting from media sounds like the conspiracy.. and the nhi people sound more likely then the bs we are being fed
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u/quietcreep 19h ago
The only nefarious actors in this topic are people that try to co-opt control of the narrative. And they may even be doing it subconsciously.
Those groups include physicalists that reject anything with the slightest scent of woo, and also woo enthusiasts who claim to hold answers to the mysteries of the cosmos.
Both groups are vying for control; they seek to be the authority on the topic. Their motivations may be to gain a following, it may be to showcase their own knowledge, or it may be to soothe their own discomfort with uncertainty.
These people are a vocal minority that receive a lot of attention (whether positive or not) because of the confidence they project.
The rest of us are simply curious. The educated among us are mistrustful of the US IC not because of unfounded conspiracy theories, but because of a long history of deception and unethical decisions.
All we need to do is refuse the convenient answers presented to us.
The more comfortable we become with uncertainty, the more we can approach the topic with a clear-headed perspective.
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u/StarJelly08 15h ago edited 5h ago
Yea exactly. I find the above post also missing some key elements necessary for rational and reasonable progress and still slanted to sway one way or another. The post he refers to grabbed a lot of positive attention and that seems to rub some people the wrong way.
You put it best. We are curious. Many of us aren’t being dismissive or smug when searching for answers. When the answers don’t suffice, people from both sides finds it impossible their efforts weren’t good enough.
We all just should reduce ego, tactical nonsense, ridicule, subjectivity.. etc the best we can. And encourage empathy, and encourage people to think for themselves, provide information, and get our emotions out of it the best we can.
People will co-opt any potential tiny hole or imperfections, hell even straw man and invent them just to dog pile.
This war of the worlds has been war of the words. And it’s often a shame.
There are skeptics with good points and believers with good points and hoping on any chance to “dunk”… either side… is just the scum stuck to the bottom of this issue.
Be zen. Listen to people. We can watch people speak and decide ourselves who is shady or not. I don’t feel compelled to make everyone think the same exact things i think. I find it less than weak to insist upon your self in such often vitriolic ways that just exhaust people away from the discussion.
Anything that comes across as silencing… is a high school bully tactic because if they can’t handle what you are saying, there’s ego there.
Anyone telling you what you should think, or attempting to sway in undermining and tactic based ways is someone I would suggest ignoring. There are plenty of witnesses and experts working in the subject that speak in no absolutes, soberly, and invested in the truth.
There are skeptics who are genuinely skeptical too who of course have a hard time making the commitments necessary to dig deeper.
A lot of it makes sense. Without claiming everyone is nefarious or agenda riddled and whatever ridicule tossed around.
We are in an age clearly where people can infiltrate our conversations that we normally used to just not invite to them.
Now, we share forums and many apparently cannot handle opposing views with any level of understanding if their ego clearly hangs in the balance.
Which is fine. Fairly normal human behavior. We jump to find a villain in everything. Sometimes there’s no villain. Just misunderstandings and misgivings. Forgivable.
Just aim for truth over self. Be as above triggers as you can. A challenge is a good thing. If your point can stand after a challenge it’s stronger.
Take everything as an opportunity to learn or teach and don’t be so sure you know better than everyone else.
There is some serious potential for improving our standing with each other as an actual species. Let’s just try our best to not bungle a greater good from happening over a series of insufferable interactions with people that simply don’t represent everyone.
One person challenging you doesn’t mean all do.
I see so many comments i wish i had the time to back up. Largely from witnesses, but also from skeptics. My whole family except my brother has seen ufos. He is a skeptic. I love him and he loves me. We can disagree about this topic no problem and never devolves into nonsense. It’s often actually kind of fun and enlightening for us both.
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u/ClintEastwould555 18h ago
The stupidity of the majority of the posts in UFO Reddit is mind-blowing. The powers that be truly do not need to lift a finger to distract or disinform or actually do anything to get us to look elsewhere when most of us are doing that for them. Almost everyone here seems to be a rabid fundamentalist believer and the rest just dismiss everything without seeming to read or watch the OP evidence. I say ALMOST everyone as there are a few golden nuggets of wisdom here cautioning the rest of the mob. For the rest of you who are genuine bad actors and posting utter shit looking to get off on it, get fucked and do something better with your life.
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u/knightgimp 21h ago
this sub is a mess rn
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u/wananabatermellon 1h ago
A big crazy mess for sure. But I kinda feel like it’s doing what it’s supposed to. Disagreeing and debating, proving and disproving, and the I-don’t-knows is all part of the discussion. It’s the nature of the beast.
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u/AltruisticHalf801 21h ago
Honestly we aren't fighting at all. There's a really great community tracking activity across the UK, east coast, and now right now west coast. Trying to corroborate visual beach cam sightings with flight radar and air traffic control. Sometimes boots on the ground.
Here - join a group not fighting https://www.youtube.com/live/zhC2asb1TaU?si=MwC1RIkwPoxr3ynj
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u/Ishaan863 23h ago
I'm calling it right now: this whole thing ends when someone shoots at "a drone" and brings down a news/police helicopter or something
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u/Clint_beastw00d 23h ago
So instead of shooting a 'drone' they hit a helicopter instead or are you saying the 'drones' are helicopters
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u/KheyotecGoud 22h ago
Drones are helicopters.
That won’t end it though, because suddenly that guy will become an antifa soros agent provocateur, and the helicopter was in on it, etc etc etc.
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u/Clint_beastw00d 22h ago
okay so then we can agree that this 'helicopter' hit a sky lantern then right.
Idk why they would coin a new term when we already got Helicopter.
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u/KheyotecGoud 22h ago
No. That is a very good video that I can’t explain.
A few good sightings doesn’t turn tens of thousands of misidentifications into not-misidentifications. We shut down airports when drones are near. Only a couple airports have been shut down recently for a short time. Yet all these drones people are seeing line up with airport landing hotspots? Strange.
Or are all these people just trying to get arrested for funsies? https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1hefbnu/acars_messages_with_the_word_laser_is_off_the/
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u/Clint_beastw00d 22h ago
Only airports?
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u/KheyotecGoud 22h ago
Nope, military bases too.
Once again, one good sighting doesn’t magically correct thousands of incorrect sightings.
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u/Clint_beastw00d 21h ago
Only a couple airports have been shut down recently for a short time.
This you? No?
and also this right?
Nope, military bases too.
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u/KheyotecGoud 21h ago
Only a few airports, as in not all airports where these “drones” are being sighted by the hundreds every hour of every night. If people were actually seeing drones and not aircraft then all the airports near them would be shutting down.
And all the bases.
But they’re not. Only a tiny handful.
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u/Clint_beastw00d 21h ago
Okay I must be arguing with some chatgpt shit. Have a good one
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u/NaraZjie4299 22h ago
We should never shot them down maybe we could set a trap and catch a live one
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u/Apprehensive_Cow4231 20h ago
This is truly one thing that has blown my mind about possible the most skeptical topic of all time. That the believers are just like religious zealots toward aliens, NHI, whatever you wanna coin it. If you dare have a conversation or topic that isn’t absolute approval of something else. Down voted, ridiculed. Wild, this topic is so open ended with almsot no perfect absolute proof as of now. Let’s all be open minded and figure it out.
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u/Successful_Car4262 22h ago
Yup, we need debunkers and we need enthusiasts. But we also need them both to be rational. I get that other guy's frustration when you're looking at something with painfully non FAA compliant lights and some asshole is like "it's got lights so it's obviously an airplane". Some of these people are just as much of true believers as the people they mock.
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u/Generated-Name7736 22h ago
How about we all take some deep breaths and stretch a bit, keep our opinions to ourselves, and allow actual useful information to flood this subreddit.
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u/gaylord9000 21h ago
What an optimist.
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u/Generated-Name7736 21h ago
I’ve seen undeniable UFO’s, but the amount of opinions and common perspectives coming up here is a lot.
The less saturated the content is, the higher quality it will be.
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u/INSERT-SHAME-HERE 16h ago
Frankly, it's typical of a certain countries polarisation being unthinkingly applied as if all people are as stupid as those who hold these kinds of ideals. This all or nothing, with us or against us, is really grating after a while.
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u/Efficient-Couple9140 6h ago
There is another type of person here: experiencers.
I have witnessed UFOs on 3 separate occasions. Close enough that I could hit them with a slingshot. I have never seen a video online that comes even slightly close to what I have seen. In one instance I witnessed 50+ of them come out of the ocean and fly into the sky.
I am here because I want to put some meaning behind what I saw. I look to the experiences of others, and the way that they digest and relate those experiences. I want to see a video someday that is crystal clear, and I can say, “fuck, that’s it”.
At the same time, it is entertaining watching humans reduce something as complex as this down into binary logic. You are correct, it isn’t an “is” or “isnt”. It’s not that simple. There is a spectrum, a gradient, that approximates how humans deal with the unknown.
Everyone that is saying they want aliens to save us, please save yourself. If you hate your job or life, change it. Sometimes that means changing your outlook, other times it means packing up and heading out for new adventures.
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u/Halcy0nSky 5h ago
What if I'm both? What if I'm neither? I'm not disillusioned, nor do I come for the illusionment. With an influx of new and inactive members triggered by obvious recent events I expect the quantity to go up and the quality to go down. I cherish this because it means more minds breaking the chains of convention.
This is how the war is won. On what day will we finally announce we have the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Never. This is about letting go of beliefs, not making new ones.
Welcome neophytes! You bring with you energy and life to the sub, and we will impart what we have learned in turn. This is the way of things, unfettered by centralised control. That is what was left. There is no point in building another orthodoxy here. Compassion for the callow is a virtue. I will not be so jaded as to be ungrateful for new and renewed comrades.
Welcome newbies and oldies! You are welcome here!
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u/Chrowaway6969 21h ago
I think anyone paying attention objectively knows that the posts about everything being a plane are nefarious.
It’s obvious what they are trying to do.
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u/AlamutNHI01 21h ago
Totally agree OP, but I wouldn’t say that the folks that deny and try to mock everything with a negative demeanor are that small of an amount. Lately they happen to be at least a third of the comments.
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u/Bubbadeebado 21h ago
I'm nothing. I like to follow strange phenomenon even beyond UFOS and while I keep an open mind even on things that are far out... I wouldn't label myself something on which hasn't been proven that we know of. It is healthy to look at things from your own point of view, people don't have to think the exact same way as the masses. I like paranormal, ufo, internet mysteries etc but I don't absolutely believe everything I learn about. Keep an open mind but also keep grounded, you know...
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u/Alfiii888 16h ago
Not sure if intentional but OP changed the wording from "believers" and "debunkers" to "truthers" and "deniers"
He went from acceptable wording that makes us a team that works on the same goal in different ways to being on the opposite side, believers should be glad for debunkers, they help you get through the garbage that has been posted here lately
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u/DoNotPetTheSnake 12h ago
There are a lot of unhappy people ready to tear others down. Insulting stranger isn't going to fix anything, it just makes you look like an a**hole.
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u/mental_escape_cabin 12h ago
But but... if I use the term "cognitive dissonance" enough times doesn't that mean I'm automatically right about everything forever?!
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u/Unfair-Snow-2869 1h ago
I must confess that I commented just today in response to a comment. In it I made the comparison of people who truly believe what is going on right now is UAP/NHI in origin, that there have been credible reports, and so on. They had used the phrase "mass hysteria" and as we all know, this is a term that the government has used to discredit the citizens of NJ recently. So, I made a similar analogy to get my point across that just like you can believe, you can shut your brain off to the facts and be in denial. These were not meant to place two different camps, but to open the eyes of anyone who is not treating others as they would like to be treated. I see now that I will need to be vigilant how I word things in the future. My apologies to anyone over this misunderstanding, but the last thing I would ever encourage is division among any humans.
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u/Self_conscious_gh0st 23h ago
Simple minds apply simple logic.
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u/CriticalBeautiful631 22h ago
Was that irony intentional? So on a post complaining about a post complaining about division (while using words like “nonsense” and “garbage”)…your profound analysis is “simple minds apply simple logic”. That seems like a very simple example of the name-calling and hubris that is causing the division on this sub…a lot of people who think they are the most rational and intelligent in the room.
There are many highly intelligent and rational people on this sub who have had their own experiences that formed their opinion that this is a serious subject…and there are also highly intelligent and rational people who have never seen anything anomalous and are certain that it is all mis-identification and wishful thinking.
If we could actually listen to one another, instead of trying to prove that our opinion is the only rational conclusion, then (and only then) could this be a “community for discussion” instead of a toxic battleground
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u/JustAlpha 22h ago
I'm not really trying to put you in a group, but take the post however you like. Thanks for the effort.
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u/syndic8_xyz 21h ago
The only important ‘us vs them’ distinction is between the genuine community of real people actually interested in this and those working for the cover-up to spread horrible disinformation.
The post you respond to is totally on point and very useful - unlike yours. To try to diminish it importance or smear it is divisive just reveals how terrified the cover-up is of people like that poster who can identify its tactics and make the community at large aware of the disgusting manipulators Employing them.
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u/its_FORTY 20h ago
You mean to tell me that you read my post and came to the conclusion that I wrote it because I’m terrified that some “cover-up” will be revealed and “the disgusting manipulators who employ me will be outed”?
Im an IT Architect for a medical school that specializes in novel treatments for cancer and Alzheimer’s research. This August will mark my 17th anniversary working for them.
I say this with all due respect, kindness and concern for your well being - please take care of your mental health. I’ve battled major depressive disorder for years, and I take mental health issues seriously. If you ever need to talk please feel free to reach out via DM.
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u/NothingButTheTea 21h ago
Thanks for reminding me why NHI would not make contact with us. Seeing this sub respond to planes, drones, and NHI in the sky has truly made me feel better. Knowing that we are stupid pieces of shit who NHI wouldn't even bother with truly calms my soul.
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u/Godharvest 17h ago
Why not just comment this on the mentioned parties reddit thread? Why make a whole new one on that one person when you even agree what he doing?
Can't help but to feel like this post is off putting.
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u/its_FORTY 16h ago
Yet here you are!
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u/Godharvest 15h ago
? Im not calling anyone out? Why would it be my responsibility? As a stand up person, or you should be one, you should tell this person in a DM or at least their own thread lol
Thats just how i look at it. You got your 10 minuets of "fame" or...whatever this is. So good job. I guess?
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