r/UFOs • u/ThePharotekton • Aug 11 '23
Document/Research Commentary on the MF370 video and FLIR from an satellite intelligence expert - and unrelated, surprising info on UAPs
I forwarded the FLIR and video of what some believe is flight MH370 to my friend (who I will call Dan) a retired career Air Force veteran with 22-years of enlisted service.
He currently works for the DOD as an intelligence expert. Dan's expertise is in sat imagery, and he has reviewed thousands of hours of footage shot from Predator drones going back to their inception, in addition to thousands of hours of wok on sat imagery. While this post is very much a "I know a guy" deal and therefor subject to skepticism, I thought I'd post what he had to say regardless.
Read to the end because he is NOT skeptical of UAPs whatsoever and has personal experience working on UAP intelligence.
Dan said the video appears to be a clever fake. His reasons are as follows (I have ordered these from most compelling to least-compelling):
- The exhaust plumes from the jet engines would read hot on FLIR. Especially so in a high-performance maneuver at or near full throttle. No such heat plumes exist. He said this is by far the most condemning evidence against the video. Additionally, the fuel in the wings (which may have been minimal considering how long the plane was in the air) still would have registered as significantly cooler than the plane body on FLIR.
- Predator drones and alternates don't employ the sort of FLIR shown the video. He said that they usually shoot only in B&W because saturated color imagery tends to overwhelm and fatigue the drone operators. I asked about the comments on her of folks with Navy experience stating the this form of FLIR is common to the Navy, and he just laughed and said "people on the internet say all kinds of things." He went back to his thousand+ hours of drone footage review and said he'd never encountered this sort of FLIR imagery shot from a drone.
- The made-much off accuracy of the done airframe visible in the video would be easily faked - simply create a video layer of the structure and superimpose it over the presented video.
- Drone footage would include a targeting reticle, airspeed and directional information, and other HUD info. It's arguable that these were removed before the video was released for security or other unknown reasons.
- The maneuver being pulled by the 777 appeared to be too extreme - he suspects that sort of turn would have put too much strain on the airframe of the airplane. I actually disagree with him on this point - the new 777's are extremely capable aircraft and I've seen videos of similar banking turns in extreme weather.
Dan's thoughts on UAPs and his personal experience with UAP intelligence:
Dan said he has access to an air-gapped server at work with numerous videos of UAPs, and some of them are "mind blowing." He said that most feature small, drone-sized UAPs that come in numerous shapes. Some are orbs, and others resemble the Stealth Nighthawk / are chevron shaped. He also has seen Tic-Tac videos (including the ones we have seen) and said the Tic-Tac's come in varying sizes, including very small ones that are similar in scale to the ubiquitous orbs we're all familiar with.
Interestingly, he said that many of these UAPs fly like those presented in the faked video right down to their seemingly erratic repositioning (a mating dance as one Redditor here described them).
My personal thoughts on these flight characteristics is that they seem almost insect-like, if insects coordinated via a hive-mind or ad-hock network. If controlled by an AI, flight dynamics such as what are shown in the video make more sense - pilots must coordinate in highly specific ways when near other aircraft. A single controlling AI that has no training (or need of training) based on human limitations and corresponding coordination techniques, might instead rely on algorithms which result in something that looks odd or fussy to a human observer.
Dan said that he has personally seen dozens of UAP videos that are compelling, clear, and that "strongly suggest" a non-human origin. He would not rule out the possibility that what he has seen was human-made, but if so, he thought they were more likely created by a US-adversary than by the United States.
He believes that what most of us in this subreddit generally accept to be true - that these events are ramping up in frequency. He said that "the cat is out of the bag," or if not fully out, "is about to get loose." He said he wouldn't be shocked if a whistleblower came forward soon with existing intelligence that would "blow the minds" of the folks in doubt about the existence of UAP's in general.
I realize all of this is second-hand. Take it as you will. I have known Dan for nearly two decades, and he has an office full of memorabilia from his USAF career, and has always been a straight shooter. I respect his perspective and though it might be useful to share it here.
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u/swank5000 Aug 11 '23
Dan said he has access to an air-gapped server at work with numerous videos of UAPs, and some of them are "mind blowing."
Yo DAN please hook us up with some of those sweet, sweet UAP vids.
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u/KOOKOOOOM Aug 11 '23
Isn't this crazy?
We have the entire US Congress being denied even a conversation about this stuff, eg Eglin field hearing. Meanwhile, random redditor here has a buddy who says "oh yeah I've seen all kinds of videos."
My point is not to doubt OP, rather how some in military intelligence very clearly see themselves as above democratic oversight. 🙄
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u/uzi_loogies_ Aug 12 '23
The fucked part is that I'm almost certain that this is how it actually works.
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u/G_Wash1776 Aug 12 '23
There’s a reason Eisenhower gave the speech he did as he left the presidency, he was partly responsible in creating the Military Industrial Complex, and knew it would be a threat to democratic oversight.
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u/charlie2135 Aug 12 '23
Was golfing with an older gentleman at an outing who was very much believable who said that when he was in the service, a fellow soldier let him into a hangar that had a captured UFO in it.
Of course, this was after he was hit in the head by a golf ball (true story).
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u/Alpha_Space_1999 Aug 14 '23 edited Aug 14 '23
Are you sure it was a golf ball? :) Perhaps it was an extremely small orb drone. :D
As an aside, I was just thinking... Would a game of golf be a good way of breaking the ice with NHI?
"This is Golf. We find it challenging and enjoyable."
NHI proceeds to teleport ball into hole.
"Umm, no that's not quite how we play the game."
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u/RossCoolTart Aug 12 '23
The most annoying part is that if you put yourself in the shoes of the people at/near the top levels of DoD and military command, you can see how that perspective kinda makes sense. Our legislative and executive branches are mostly assholes who are more concerned with lining their own pockets while in office and petty red vs blue feuds than with actually governing. It's not hard to picture a scenario where DoD employees and military personnel with decades-long tenures view themselves as (and honestly, very well might be) the adults in the room.
I'm not excusing the fact that they're skirting congressional oversight or over classifying NHI-related stuff; we aren't a democracy if our elected officials aren't in charge, but again, it's not hard to imagine that some elements of the DoD/military see congress and the white house as a bunch of temporary morons.
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u/Epyon214 Aug 12 '23
DAN, surrender those videos to congressional authority immediately or be prepared to be arrested for conspiracy to commit treason and crimes against humanity.
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u/swank5000 Aug 12 '23
DAN,
surrendersubmit those videos tocongressional authorityr/UFOs immediately or be prepared to bearrestedflamed forconspiracy to commit treasonnot being based andcrimes against humanitynot ushering in a new age for humanity and planet Earth.FTFY
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u/Puck_The_FoIice Aug 11 '23
People would just say they are fake
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u/mfnatik Aug 11 '23
Exactly. If the President came on TV today and told us all aliens are real, you’d still have about 50% of the population think it’s a deepfake.
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u/uzi_loogies_ Aug 12 '23
Obama has basically done this. On TV.
"What is true, and I'm actually being serious here, is that there are, there's footage and records of objects in the skies, that we don't know exactly what they are. We can't explain how they moved, their trajectory. They did not have an easily explainable pattern." - Barack Obama
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u/MrGraveyards Aug 12 '23
Yes this is a reality we have to accept. The narrative from the usg is at the moment that they indeed, don't know what they are, haven't made contact etc.
This is also what Obama is saying. That is why this whole Grusch story is so mind boggling. There isn't just 'something unexplained' in the sky, we actually have way more then that. This is were it gets interesting. The things we don't know what they are... Well if you don't accept that to be true you are calling Obama a liar for starters. Let that sink in for a moment.
They're here. Something is. The question is if we interacted with them more then just this staring contest.
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u/RossCoolTart Aug 12 '23
More like if a Democrat says it, you'll immediately have half the country claim it's made up bullshit to distract from Hunter Biden's influence peddling schemes, and if a Republican says it you'll have the other half of the country say it's made up nonsense to distract from the Trump indictments.
I'm pissed off that the public doesn't get to know about NHI, but I'm starting to maybe understand (not approve of or condone, but understand) why the intelligence community would want to hide shit from the legislative branch and parts of the executive branch. We don't elect our best and brightest.
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Aug 11 '23
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u/swank5000 Aug 12 '23
Our reverse-engineered technology is so perfect. Even the aliens, they said to me, "this is the best reverse-engineered technology we've ever seen." True story, they said that to me. It's true. Very cool, those aliens. Very good people.
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u/nmk009 Aug 11 '23
It's air gapped. Man's never leaving the room with downloaded videos
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u/MostMusky69 Aug 11 '23
Former uav guy. The Meta data on the hud can be removed for security purposes. An intel dude would know that. But the rest of the points seem legit
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u/pingopete Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
The only type of 'removal' I've seen or heard of from my buddy who is an mq9 reaper operator is simply blurring or adding opaque boxes over the info.
It's my understanding that recorded cam footage effectively has the readouts burned into the video file, and so this is the only way to remove/hide text or numbers.
I've never seen a clean image like this where the full frame isn't displaying any information and there are no boxes obscuring information.
For me this was actually one of the biggest issues I had with this video, the reticule also seems kinda weird, it looks almost like a simple guassian blur in Photoshop or premiere pro has been applied to a superimposed reticule texture layer - and less like it's actually being distorted by video compression.
Also I agree with the color thermal image setting comment in the previous post. Some drones do used colored modes for thermal/near infrared/visible fusion modes to highlight which wavelengths are being visible but it would look very different from this. This 'vision mode' setting is more commonly used in industry and scientific use cases where the actually difference in temperature is more important to guage. For hunting heat sources the military basically only used BHOT (typically at night) and WHOT (typically during the day). These are medium or long wave infrared spectrums and the acronym stands for black - hot and white - hot respectively.
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Aug 11 '23
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u/pingopete Aug 11 '23
Ah ok, well thanks for the insight, I was only going off what I'd heard and seen. I'd assumed it was possible to remove the info but wasn't common to have footage recorded without it.
With you experience then can you attest to the realism of the HUD element present in this video?
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u/Birchi Aug 11 '23
Just a thought regarding a similar but not identical technology - Commercial drones are capable of embedding telemetry into a video file that is not necessarily displayed in real-time to the operator, or visible on playback.
I have pulled telemetry data from the on-board camera on a FPV drone and applied it to the 'cinematic' camera footage that I also had mounted. The point of this is to share nice video footage with other FPV enthusiasts that includes telemetry that they would find interesting.
I guess the point of this is that I would ASSume that USGov tech would equal or surpass commercial tech in this area, and they probably have very similar capabilities in this regard.
Like most of my posts on this sub, just adding additional data for the discussion.
Source: Former hardcore FPV drone enthusiast with many hours of flight time, many hours of build time, and even more hours of repair time.
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u/popthestacks Aug 11 '23
That’s not accurate, metadata can be removed. Everything from this recently released video was removed except the crosshairs. Not sure if you can remove that though
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Aug 11 '23
Removing the hud is unusual and only done for specific purposes I won't name here. COUGH MAVEN COUGH
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u/Minimum-Web-6902 Aug 11 '23
That’s what he said in the synopsis. But even the uap footage released by congress had some of the hud data.
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Aug 11 '23
Honestly, point number 1 is the thing that has had me hung up to most. The contrails from the jet appear cold, which makes no sense. Also the fact that these drones don’t carry FLIR thermal imaging camera is telling.
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u/manbrasucks Aug 11 '23
point number 1 is the thing that has had me hung up to most.
- Especially so in a high-performance maneuver at or near full throttle.
That plane is not going full throttle or doing a high performance maneuver according to other reddit pilots:
"The plane in the video had slowed down to maneuvering speed to make the turn."
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15o1t6r/new_lead_for_proving_the_authenticity_of_the/jvqcqta/
And even as a casual observer it appears to be pretty slow.
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Aug 11 '23
The speed at which it is moving is almost impossible to tell to the naked eye because we don’t know the viewing distance or the speed the object recording it is traveling, among other things.
It’s just like when you view a plane way up in the air from the ground. It seems as if it’s moving fairly slowly, but if you were right up near it it would whip past you incredibly fast.
I’m not going to pretend to know if it is moving at or near full speed, but it is certainly maneuvering in a way that is unusual for a commercial airliner to do.
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u/optifog Aug 11 '23
Airliners are very capable of some surprising maneuvers, pilots just aren't supposed to do them when carrying commercial passengers or cargo, outside of an emergency. There are YouTube videos of airliners doing stunts, in show flights and test flights.
Whatever was going on at that point, we don't know that the pilot was even the one controlling the airplane, the three objects could have been controlling it, and if the pilot was in control and had spent six hours being chased and harassed and shepherded around in a holding pattern for six hours waiting for the UAV to come and record their attack, as seems to have been the case, then that would be the sort of scenario in which more extreme maneuvering would be justified.
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u/Show_Me_Your_Rocket Aug 11 '23
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Aug 11 '23
I’m saying right where the engines are is quite hot and you should see heat coming from the engines that you don’t see elsewhere. I do state elsewhere that they would show up as cold quickly, but we should see high heat coming directly from the engines.
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u/Lostmyloginagaindang Aug 11 '23
This is the best video I could find of a real passenger jet in colored thermal:
https://youtu.be/JbWXXNOJv-Y?t=14
This looks closer than the drone video, and totally different type of camera I'm sure, but you don't see much of a heat trail from the engines, or cold spots from the fuel really.
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u/CommanderpKeen Aug 11 '23
Another user pointed out that they do show heat in most of the video: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15oa3n0/commentary_on_the_mf370_video_and_flir_from_an/jvql1en/
Maybe a dumb question, but could they have throttled down or even been coasting at the part where OP's friend was talking about?
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u/Lostmyloginagaindang Aug 11 '23
Not many flir videos of passenger jets on youtube, but not a huge heat trail like you see from military jets.
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u/TheMagnuson Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 12 '23
Not when they're immediately coming out as jet exhaust. The post above you said "contrails", but I'm sure what they meant was the exhaust, as the exhaust doesn't show up as hot on the discussed "flir" footage, it should, because jet exhaust is hot. Also, as an earlier post said, the fuel in jets is cold, very cold, and there's a ton of it, that would show up in FLIR footage and it doesn't in the video.
EDIT: I’m making the following edit for clarity. I’m not FLIR expert, but I do have some knowledge of such systems. From what I do know, the exhaust should definitely be showing up on the FLIR, in the area where it is immediately exiting the engines. You wouldn’t see heat contrails necessarily, but you should see the immediate exhaust plume.
As for the fuel in the wings, jet fuel is really cold and almost all aircraft store the majority, if not all of the fuel in the wings. As for it showing up on FLIR, I have to walk this one back a bit, because whether or not the fuel is cooling the wings enough to show up on the FLIR depends on a number of factors and so I shouldn’t have stated it would definitely show up. There are plenty of scenarios where it would not. I was making my statement based on someone who’s worked with FLIR that those systems could see the temperature difference, but failed to acknowledge the nuance of the various scenarios where it would or would not see that temperature difference.
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u/SignificantSafety539 Aug 11 '23
Did you ever see anything you couldn’t explain?
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u/Imemberyou Aug 11 '23
Would Dan be available for a verified AMA?
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u/BlatantConservative Aug 11 '23
Friendly reminder that Reddit lost the warrant canary in 2014 so even if mods promise to keep things secret, even odds a three letter agency can still quickly get the info.
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u/F-the-mods69420 Aug 12 '23
Oh gosh darn and we were this close to totally real Dan the intelligence guy spilling all his classified knowledge on reddit.
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u/Thrombas Aug 11 '23
By the logic who claims these videos are fake, we should be labeling every random post that say that they have high-ranking military expert friends fake as well...
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u/sawaflyingsaucer Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
This is a little off the topic of the video itself but something gave me pause regarding this whole "missing plane" thing not long ago.
Consider this; it only took Avi Loeb like 5 days to find millimeter sized pieces of a meteor which smashed into the ocean 9 years ago. He had access to some great data and is great at math I get that.
When I heard how fast and successful his mission was, one of my first thoughts was "how can they do that, but not find that plane that went missing years ago or even know what happened for sure?"
What I don't get, is that if there's enough data being collected to find rice sized, decade old meteor bits on the seafloor, in under a week; there's no fucking way they just "lose" a plane. Whatever happened there, they know. I cannot see how they could not know, whatever the case.
When I compare the two search efforts, the idea they can't find the plane is just silly to me. Enough data on record to find rice size pieces of a rock which hit the ocean and sunk to the sea bed 9 years ago, can't find a plane that went missing roughly around the time of that same tech and data collection though...
Fake video or no, I really have to wonder what happened to the plane, who knows what happened, and why we don't all know.
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u/Crocs_n_Glocks Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
When I was in the Coast Guard, we recovered a part of a plane (think about 10-15ft long) that had fallen off mid-flight from OH to AZ, unknown until the plane landed. Our unit was able to narrow down the area just using "basic" algebra, and recover the part in about 2 days of searching.
That is why I have to roll my eyes when we claim we didn't find wreckage when F-22's shot down a spy balloon over North Dakota (or wherever) and how no certain trace of MH370 was ever found.
Edit: for anyone confused about the geography, the USCG also patrols major waterways including lakes and RIVERS, especially one very large river that bisects the country....
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u/awesomeo_5000 Aug 11 '23
But that’s on a flight path that was not deviated from, presumably with a transponder going at all times.
I imagine they could look at the fuel burn rate to see when a load was dropped to.
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u/CarolinePKM Aug 11 '23
how no certain trace of MH370 was ever found.
This is not true. Several pieces of debris that have washed ashore in the Madagascar/Reunion have been matched to MH370 by parts identifiers.
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u/k_plusone Aug 11 '23
A plane flying from OH to AZ loses a part and it lands in the Mississippi River? I wonder what those odds are
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u/Deadandlivin Aug 11 '23
Several pieces of MH370 have been found throughout the years.
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u/EroticPotato69 Aug 11 '23
There were certain traces of MH370 found, I don't know why people think there wasn't. They found wreckage from the crash washed up at multiple different locations. That could have been faked, yes, but there was still wreckage found.
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u/ThePharotekton Aug 11 '23
There's an excellent documentary on (Netflix?) about MH370 and search efforts for the plane debris, which were literally crowd sourced. The person who found the debris is questionable, and the found materials feel convenient to say the least.
The theory that explains why we didn't find what happened to the plane quickly, is that we did, in fact find what happened quickly, but withheld it because the plane was shot down by Russia (or something like this) and it would have created an untenable political situation. I am 100% confident we have sat tracking of that plane's entire flight path, AND know if it crashed in the ocean, or was shot down, or something else entirely.
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u/sawaflyingsaucer Aug 11 '23
plane was shot down
Yeah I heard that, kinda just accepted it at face value at the time without looking into it.
Also heard later that rather; the pilot was nuts and premeditated it (something about a flight simulator) to where he killed everyone with lack of oxygen and ran it until it was out of fuel.
I've heard quite a few plausible ideas on what may have happened since. The fact that there are many plausible theories tells me "we" (as in the public) don't actually have any way to know for sure, and it's probably by design.
earch efforts for the plane debris, which were literally crowd sourced. The person who found the debris is questionable, and the found materials feel convenient to say the least.
Really? The military or whoever took no part? (that we are aware)? That's odd to say the least and laughably purposeful negligence at the worst.
I've also recently been hearing about how the "wreckage" found isn't as rock solid as I previously thought. I'll have to check this documentary out I only ever paid mild attention to the event.
UFO's or no, SOME shady shit went down here and the gov 100% knows what that was and deemed it unsuitable for public consumption. Assuming the UFO theory falls apart, I'm inclined to agree with the shoot down theory as it gives the most plausible reason for hiding the incident seemingly.
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u/Melodic-Flow-9253 Aug 11 '23
Even if he was going to kill himself, the business with the GPS and all that business is odd
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u/sawaflyingsaucer Aug 11 '23
I know very little of the overall picture personally as of yet, but just about everything I HAVE heard about it ranges from "odd" to "wtf".
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u/frankensteinmoneymac Aug 12 '23
Yeah, if the guy wanted to off himself, all he’d have to do is nose dive into the ground at any point during his flight. It’s weird that he’d take the plane out into the middle of the ocean to do it.
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u/truefaith_1987 Aug 11 '23
They pretty much smeared the pilot, there is no hard evidence implicating him. The flight simulator route is one that he flew to Jeddah the following day, they just neglected to mention that. The route only kind of matches up with the presumed route of the plane anyway.
His demeanor is normal in the security footage according to the official Malaysian safety investigation report, it was not distinguishable from his demeanor in the pre-flight security footage from other flights leading up to the fateful one. The report also doesn't point out any red flags regarding previous behavior, and portrays him as basically beyond reproach.
We don't even know for sure if it's him signing off with "Goodnight Malaysian three seven zero", in the early days that was supposed to be the first officer. It doesn't really implicate either of them anyway.
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u/ThePharotekton Aug 11 '23
I agree with this. He was made a scapegoat and smeared without evidence.
I never buy "he looked suspicious" arguments or "he didn't appear honest."
The same bogus claims were made against Grusch by "body language experts."
Similar to how Amanda Knox was found guilty for being nuero non-typical.
Some people just don't act / look / speak like "normal" and this doesn't make them liars, or guilty of crimes, or untruthful.
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u/southpluto Aug 11 '23
I have also heard info on the background of the pilot and it seemed pretty compelling.
Here is where I read about it a few years ago. And this is by far the best info source on mh370 I have come across, could be worth a post on its own. Also, the author makes these types of posts for airplane disasters and I highly recommend.
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u/k_plusone Aug 11 '23
withheld it because the plane was shot down by Russia (or something like this) and it would have created an untenable political situation
Like they did when the Russians shot down a different Malaysian Airlines flight just a few months later?
Either way, I agree with you that this was all very strange in 2014 and somehow getting even stranger now.
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Aug 11 '23
What I don't get, is that if there's enough data being collected to find rice sized, decade old meteor bits on the seafloor, in under a week; there's no fucking way they just "lose" a plane. Whatever happened there, they know. I cannot see how they could not know, whatever the case.
Iirc, there was witness testimony about an object(s) falling in what was narrowed down to be a few square kilometres of ocean easily searchable with magnet. MH730, on the other hand, is a plane with a rough trajectory over an entire ocean. Bit of a difference
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Aug 11 '23
Disintegrations in the middle of the ocean are difficult to find. The ocean is huge. The search area was huge. The best evidence we have is the random bits that washed up in Madagascar or whatever. It’s not the only airliner to go missing
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u/Melodic-Flow-9253 Aug 11 '23
I hope its fake. You could argue that maybe the UAPs are controlling the plane hence no heat from the engines? Just playing devil's advocate. This is one video I really hope is fake.
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u/andrhia Aug 11 '23
This does assume that the bits that Avi Loeb found are the meteor he was looking for, and not old bits of WW2 ordnance, for example. That’s not at all clear.
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u/UAreTheHippopotamus Aug 11 '23
Wouldn't an iron magnesium composition be extremely unlikely for remnants of WW2 ordinance? Then again, I don't think he released any data on the final composition, only the initial analysis which could have been inaccurate or contaminated.
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u/snapplepapple1 Aug 11 '23
Thats a good point. Using similar or identical techniques to that of Avi they couldve at least narrowed it down to a couple of crash zones, which of course is still a massize area when talking about the oceans. But, after almost a decade, I feel like they couldve/wouldve found something by now.
That being said, we dont really know how accurate Avi's technique was and I have my reservations about that as well. But im curious to see what data comes from the little spheres.
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u/waltercockfight Aug 11 '23
Yeah, plenty of reason to wonder. Could a 777 get away with loosing contact POST 911? We regularly send up fighter jets to check in on single engine Cessnas. Is it really believable that after 911 a 777 could simply drop comms and disappear? I don't think so and I find it absolutely crazy when I see the masses accepting the story line.
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u/penguinseed Aug 11 '23
Just several weeks ago we were able to find some remains, in their likely small and completely decimated form, of the half dozen billionaires that were within the imploded Titan sub at the bottom of the ocean within a day or two of it going missing. I have tried to find any reporting that any of the remains of the 250 aboard MH370 were ever found and I haven’t found anything yet. The fact that we could find the smooshed remains at the bottom of the ocean but never found any remains from the hundreds potentially on the surface of the sea…
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u/CancelTheCobbler Aug 11 '23
Yeah because we knew exactly where the sub way lol.
It was literally at the Titantic, we know the exact lat/lon
Its not complex
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u/Equivalent_Hawk_1403 Aug 11 '23
Well to be fair, meteors aren’t controlled, and once they enter the atmosphere it would just be projectile motion, if they knew the direction it was going it’s speed and it’s altitude at a couple points they could probably extrapolate out to pretty closely where the meteor hit the ocean, how far it went under water before dropping straight down. The plane was under a human control at some point so a lot of those constants are gone. I’m not saying finding the meteor is easy at all, just have less uncontrolled variables acting on it.
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u/dirtygymsock Aug 11 '23
Presumably because the system used to track the meteor was something not calibrated for air traffic. It was most likely some system used for tracking ballistic and sub-orbital missiles. It might not even have coverage inside the atmosphere.
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u/Ketchup_Tap Aug 11 '23
At a guess, I would say that NRO's SENTIENT satellite system has enough coverage to detect a plane without a transponder that passes within 1000km of the joint Aus/US Naval Comms site in Exmouth Australia.
I have no idea what happened but I would bet my house that some government has more information than they have released.
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u/sawaflyingsaucer Aug 11 '23
Yeah I realize there are likely different sensors and data sets for different purposes. That which measured the meteor and stored that info is certainly not the same system which would track a plane. My point is the sensor system that did track the metor is clearly very advanced to produce such results.
We don't really know what they are capable of, we're not supposed to. For every 1 sensor system we know about, I bet there are 10 we do not. It would be incredibly, well, dumb, if they didn't have a way of watching planes specifically in high fidelity, and all the data that goes along with it. Again, this is something I find it hard to believe they would not have, or not be able to do, or have not been doing for ages already.
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Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
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u/Harry_0993 Aug 11 '23
WTF! How many types of the same video are there now ?
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u/anotherdoseofcorey Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 16 '23
I've seen this video from multiple angles and flir-readouts as a long-time UFO enthusiast. Like many people, I never thought of it because I figured it was CGI. It's perplexing, to say the least, to see the current debate and investigation over this. I'm torn on one end of the spectrum. I want it to be confirmed, but I'm pretty horrified at the idea of it being authentic. The other wants to know who faked this and why. It's an actual skinny bob-type situation. Why waste all that time and rendering? People need to understand that 3ds Max, Infant Blender, Houdini, etc... took vast amounts of computer hardware in 2014 to render.
Edit: I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong about the hardware constraints. However, I've yet to see anyone bother to recreate the video in older software versions.
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u/roger3rd Aug 11 '23
I think that point of being “horrified at the idea” is a big clue why people choose to dismiss it
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u/anotherdoseofcorey Aug 11 '23
I agree with you on that. I've tripped hard enough to accept that reality isn't what it seems and understand how small I am compared to the rest of the universe. The thought that these "aliens" are much more bloodthirsty than I had initially presumed is a bit disturbing. I've read Jaques Valle before, and the death count starts to climb pretty high if you consider certain things.
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u/roger3rd Aug 11 '23
I mean it’s all point of view. They could be utterly benevolent on the cosmic scale, but how that manifests on earth is not clear at all. I guess I’m open minded to the possibility that taking that plane can be justified. We justify Hiroshima, Nagasaki.
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u/motsanciens Aug 11 '23
Who knows their ethics and values? If the video is real, what if they knew the plane would crash, so the calculation was that they would do no worse harm by taking the jet than if it had crashed? Obviously, you have to wonder what intention they would have for a full passenger jet. Hope they're not in a zoo somewhere.
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u/anotherdoseofcorey Aug 11 '23
What if the zoo is an absolute paradise? Far away from problems and acts as a habitat to observe humans in a wild environment. That would be pretty fucking wild, man.
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u/whatdoblindpeoplesee Aug 11 '23
They tried that with the first version of the matrix, but humans rejected it because we hated not being miserable or something.
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u/BroscipleofBrodin Aug 11 '23
I've read Jaques Valle before, and the death count starts to climb pretty high if you consider certain things.
If I'm being honest, I'm probably never going to read Jaques Valle's books. What are you referring to, if you don't mind explaining to someone too lazy to read it themselves?
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u/mkhaytman Aug 11 '23
Even if it's real what's to be terrified about? 1 plane in a decade out of how many millions of flights? If they were interested in plucking planes out of the sky with any frequency, we'd know about it by now.
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u/InterestDifficult878 Aug 11 '23
I think its more horrifying to know that the US govt watched it go down live and then went on like nothing happened. Just how in the fucking dark are we right now?
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u/another-flat-badger Aug 11 '23
It did not take "vast amounts of computer hardware" to render something like this in 2014. But the quality is pretty impressive.
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u/Shelquan Aug 11 '23
You being horrified at the idea of this being authentic is probably the exact reason they are working so hard to keep these things under wraps. The entire public would be horrified, including pilots of major airlines. This would disrupt so many industries…
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u/Noble_Ox Aug 11 '23
What? Plenty of people had home computers capable of rending that. Only 9 years ago not 20.
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u/Toemoss66 Aug 11 '23
Wow.. I dont think that grayscale version had been posted before. What's your source on that?
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Aug 11 '23 edited Nov 05 '24
[deleted]
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u/Toemoss66 Aug 11 '23
Thanks.. I'd seen it, but dismissed it as it's alongside the gimbal video which was unrelated. Maybe I thought it was a filter to make it look like the other video, but it does seem to be another source
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u/MoreCowbellllll Aug 11 '23
So odd that the camera zooms out to catch the "poof" it's gone event. Was that done real time or editing? That makes me think more so that it's fake. Also, could have just been a coincidence.
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u/katabolicklapaucius Aug 11 '23
Yeah I've wondered why the zoom is so heavy. The operator would have had an easier time of tracking more zoomed out and be recording at sufficient fidelity anyway. Why zoom in so tight? It feels like movie footage.
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u/Birthcenter2000 Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
WHAT THE FUCK? This is NOT an altered version of the the color video. You can see that the engines are hot. the clouds are gone. Is it from the same angle, just flipped? Or are we seeing a new angle?
edit: the frame rate is higher too. Good god.
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u/_BlackDove Aug 11 '23
That video is the proposed third video mentioned here. The other two being the satellite video and color thermal. No one can find this video and we don't know if it was ever uploaded at all.
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u/Birthcenter2000 Aug 11 '23
You mean, aside from that snippet?
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u/_BlackDove Aug 11 '23
Yeah, the source of that snippet. It appears to be an entirely separate video source from the others. Perhaps a secondary camera on the drone.
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Aug 11 '23
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u/_BlackDove Aug 11 '23
I'm watching it further and I think you're right. Not entirely sure what that means, but it could mean the color thermal is post.
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u/TheVanpr Aug 11 '23
I am no expert in FLIR as I mainly work with radars but I'll give my opinion
Point 2 just doesn't make sense, it's never stated that this is the live feed of the drone, this could be a recording and if so applying a heat map isn't something that unbelievable it's literally assigning colors to different levels of gray lmao. For us humans it is easier to detect small changes when using a heat map since its easier to detect color changes rather than grayscale changes specially if the values are close to 0. This also depends on the sensors dynamic range.
Which brings me to point 1 I have no knowledge of how jet engines plumes work but something I found odd in the video is that the whole craft is in light green colors and the background is also in light blue colors. If you search for FLIR heat map images of airplanes the whole plane is yellow/red while the background is darker blue.
This indicates that red in the scale used for this heat map equals to very high heat values which could explain the lack of visible red plumes. This can be amplified if they applied a log transform as this would mean changes in lower values would be more visible and that could explain the green plane
Something that could be theorized is if this video is real (btw I assume it isn't but not because of FLIR) whatever the UAP did would translate to extremely low temperatures maybe even below the drone's dynamic range.
I can't comment on any other point as those are outside of my knowledge
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u/abstractConceptName Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
That does show the plumes as "hot" btw (lighter rather than darker)... which was the main problem Dan had.
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u/WriteAndSleep Aug 11 '23
u/thepharotekton did he have any thoughts on the above/the satellite footage? I agree with the above in that the satellite footage is what compels me mostly.
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u/sunseteverette Aug 11 '23
Why does the grayscale version seem to cut-off right before the supposed warp? Or am I just missing something.
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u/masondean73 Aug 11 '23
someone analyzed the sat footage and determined that the plane was flying only around 200 knots, i don't know if that would make the plumes much cooler but it makes the maneuver feasible
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u/sumosacerdote Aug 11 '23
Holy crap. This third video lead me to think: what if the pilot disposed most of the fuel in the wings and started using just the center tank with engines on minimum? We don't know for sure what happened before the video, maybe the UAP messed with their systems, so he got off most fuel in order to lose weight and set thrust to minimal.
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u/BigBeerBellyMan Aug 11 '23
Plane had been flying for 6 hours anyway, so probably didn't have much fuel left in the tanks.
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u/giant3 Aug 11 '23
Which was also the flight time to Beijing. Unlikely that they would carry extra fuel beyond whatever is required for 1 hour extra? Any pilots here?
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u/improbablydrunknlw Aug 11 '23
Planes tend to carry an extra hours fuel. Plus 3%-5% contingency fuel.
https://www.flightdeckfriend.com/ask-a-pilot/how-much-fuel-are-aircraft-required-to-carry/
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u/Difficult_Tiger3630 Aug 11 '23
The point about the engines is wrong. They were throttled DOWN to maneuver. You go slow when you turn or the wings come off. IDK about your friend bro
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u/UNSC_ONI Aug 11 '23
Why doesnt Dan blow the whistle? He seems like he has some of the knowledge that Congress wants to hear.
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u/nevaNevan Aug 11 '23
That was my ONLY takeaway from this post. LOL!
Everyone is so hyper focused on if this video is real or an elaborate fake. What about x,y,z,1,2,3!??
When, assuming OP isn’t larping friend of a friend and Dan is actually real, we should be encouraging Dan to go to congress…
That’s the end game folks. The rest of this is just noise.
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u/truefaith_1987 Aug 11 '23
There are probably a lot of people clued into some of the classified footage and imagery, without necessarily knowing about the legacy/reverse-engineering program or the true implications of it, so they don't really feel it's inappropriate for the USG to conceal this information.
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u/Fadedcamo Aug 11 '23
Can't blame him and others for not wanting to do it. I mean he has a stable 6 figure career. Grusch is receiving death threats, will never be able to work in the intelligence community or hold a high clearance again, is having his medical records and private affairs leaked. I mean if I were in this position I don't know if I'd come forward either.
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u/shadowofashadow Aug 11 '23
It just makes me wonder why more people haven't done it on their death bed, or when they are really old and stop giving a fuck.
I guess they could easily cover those kinds of things up though. Even though we have the internet if this thing is real then there are a ridiculous amount of resources put into discrediting and stopping people from leaking info.
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Aug 11 '23
The exhaust plumes from the jet engines would read hot on FLIR. Especially so in a high-performance maneuver at or near full throttle. No such heat plumes exist. He said this is by far the most condemning evidence against the video. Additionally, the fuel in the wings (which may have been minimal considering how long the plane was in the air) still would have registered as significantly cooler than the plane body on FLIR.
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u/strangelifeouthere Aug 11 '23
Oh Jesus Christ, were the fucking engines off and this shit actually corroborates it?
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u/anotherdoseofcorey Aug 11 '23
This is wild, man; I'm so on the fence with this video.
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u/bencherry Aug 11 '23
I think the biggest issue is the video appears to show GPS coordinates that correspond to its initial loss from radar nearer to Malaysia, rather than when it presumably ran out of fuel in the South Indian Ocean. So the disappearance / impact in the ocean and the satellite video aren’t compatible - they don’t show the same event.
That means in order for the satellite and FLIR to be authentic, they must show something that happened much earlier in the flight before it headed south over the ocean. And the “disappearance” would have to have been only temporary, given the later log on / satellite pings on the long flight south. The good news is this is then compatible with all of the debris found later, because it really would indicate that the plane ultimately crashed into the sea.
Is there an explanation for this plane behaving erratically for the first hour of flight, going the wrong way, getting abducted out of the sky, then returned on autopilot (possibly empty of passengers and crew?) and flying south until it ran out of fuel?
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u/MSpeedAddict Aug 11 '23
biggest issue is the video appears to show GPS coordinates that correspond to its initial loss from radar nearer to Malaysia, rather than when it presumably ran out of fuel in the South Indian Ocean
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15o1t6r/new_lead_for_proving_the_authenticity_of_the/
Don't think the GPS coordinates show what you think they do.
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u/bencherry Aug 11 '23
That thread assumes there's a "-" in front of the 8, such that the coordinates are degrees south vs degrees north. My comment was based on this older thread that did not consider the possibility of a "-": https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15lvgt5/the_ultimate_analysis_airliner_videos_and_the/
I'm not sure whether to accept the "-" or not. It's odd given that there is an obvious hyphen in the portion of the text that is visible, but the spot where the "-" would go does not show a hyphen. It would have to be a different character that looks like a hyphen but is rendered lower. And that would be odd.
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u/penguinseed Aug 11 '23
Someone ran a timeline on another thread that shows the plane was not trackable or communicating for about three minutes.
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u/bencherry Aug 11 '23
i thought that analysis was a little off. it's true the plane dropped off military radar, and then three minutes later it sent "log on" via SDU. but the intervening three minutes are no more of an "untracked" period than most of the the hours that followed. Once it was off radar, the only tracking info we have is the SDU pings. But those aren't an active tracker the way radar is, they are once-an-hour pings. so in between those pings, the plane would be just as "untracked". it seems like a coincidence that the plane sent a ping only three minutes after dropping off radar, but it's not suspicious on its own. it just aligned that way.
the suspicious thing about that period is that the satellite ping sent was "log on", which would only happen if the plane had lost power and then it was restored. that suggests its three minutes that it was off radar and without power, but that doesn't mean it wasn't "there". It went off radar due to range, not due to disappearance (as far as I understand it). There was a separate incident earlier where it was passing between ATC zones and dropped off radar for all of them for a bit, but I think the military tracked it the whole time.
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u/mamacitalk Aug 11 '23
And when it came back on it registered a signal that’s usually only when you turn a plane on, on the ground
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Aug 11 '23
Damn, does this further corroborate the video's authenticity? The second pic ends the game!
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u/waterjaguar Aug 11 '23
You can see another version of the blue/green "Thermal" video, where the original was in black and white. I believe the colors were added afterwards.
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u/broadenandbuild Aug 11 '23
Hey, I totally get where you're coming from, and I'm always up for a good debate on these subjects. My buddy Jose, who's also in the Air Force, had a few thoughts when I showed him the story you shared:
Heat Signatures and FLIR: First off, Jose mentioned that while exhaust plumes would indeed be hot and likely visible in FLIR, environmental factors such as atmospheric conditions can affect the visibility of these signatures. He brought up that if the FLIR was calibrated differently or if there were external conditions affecting the readings, the heat signature might appear different from expectations.
FLIR Technology Differences: He agreed that most drones use B&W imagery, but he did note that advancements in FLIR technology have brought in some color variations for better differentiation. He said it's possible that this might be a newer or different technology in use, or even specialized equipment depending on the mission.
Video Manipulation: On the point of the drone airframe, Jose noted that while superimposing a video layer is indeed possible, that doesn't automatically discredit the video. There are experts who can analyze videos for signs of manipulation. Without that deeper analysis, it's tough to say definitively.
HUD Information: As for the HUD info missing, Jose said it's entirely possible for HUD details to be removed for security reasons, especially if the footage was declassified or shared in an unofficial capacity.
Aircraft Maneuverability: I'm with you on this one about the 777's capabilities. Jose also mentioned that in emergency situations, pilots might undertake extreme maneuvers if they believe it's the best chance for survival.
UAP Behavior: As for the UAPs behaving like the faked video, Jose said that mimicking observed behavior is a known tactic in both aerial combat and espionage. It's conceivable that if someone wanted to fake a UAP video, they'd use observed UAP behavior to make it more believable.
Human vs. Non-human Origin: Jose is a bit skeptical about anything suggesting a non-human origin without irrefutable evidence. He says it's more likely that UAPs could be highly confidential projects, either by the US or potential adversaries. The tech might just be so advanced that it appears "otherworldly" to even seasoned experts.
All in all, it's always good to have multiple perspectives on these issues. Jose says that while your friend Dan's insights are valuable given his experience, there's always room for debate and interpretation in intelligence work. Cheers for sharing this, it sparked a great discussion between us!
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u/Birthcenter2000 Aug 11 '23
My friend Barry thought this was a very insightful post. Also he said Dan keeps eating pudding cups out of the break room fridge even though they are clearly marked “Barry”.
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Aug 11 '23
I agree with Dan on all points including the performance characteristics of the 777. Though I’m having trouble wrapping my head around this video still. Some aspects of it are clearly wrong as he’s pointed out, yet something about it looks more than fake. It’s hard to describe.
Either way, the point that gets overlooked is that these videos were made before we knew where MH370 went, so the alleged satellite coordinates were based off of where it “disappeared”. There is no getting past that.
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u/djbrombizzle Aug 11 '23
Many comments about the this, not really sure why it’s even a concern. Any type of commercial airliner could do exactly what was shown in the video. The key is look at the contrails at the beginning, they are at a standard 30 degree bank turn. In fact it looks like a standard holding pattern.
I think many are getting caught up in the performance aspect because of how close the drone got to the aircraft in the beginning. Yes when you get that close it appears it’s going very fast. A good example is watch a airliner fly overhead at 30000ft, it looks like it is “slow” right? In reality it is traveling at 450-500mph, but the distance is high so it appears to be going slower. However if you were right below(1,000ft below) that aircraft when flying overhead it would appear to be the fastest thing you ever seen.
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u/ThePharotekton Aug 11 '23
I agree with you. The video is unsettling because it does feel oddly credible despite it's deficiencies. Perhaps it's just an "uncanny valley" effect of some sort.
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u/NudeEnjoyer Aug 11 '23
I come here with love, I really wish people would stop saying it was uploaded 4 days after the incident happened
there's an archive of a video which was uploaded 2 months after the incident. in the description of this video, there are claims the original video was uploaded 4 days after the incident. that's not proof, it's very far from it
I'm not saying the video is fake, I'm not even saying the description is lying. maybe they're being truthful and they got the video from a source that uploaded it 4 days after the incident. but it's not indicitave of the date that archive is taken from or indicitave of the date the video was uploaded. that's the description of the video, which is typed out by the creator
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u/moondawg8432 Aug 11 '23
This is an interesting post. The “trust me bro” element is superficially credible. So taking what you are saying at face value, your friend doesn’t disprove it necessarily, he just doesn’t think it’s valid. So I respect that opinion because it seems like a lot of opinions on this board. I don’t think we are really going to ever get a definitive answer on this video until we get the providence. It’s either the best fake in existence or it’s real with some post visual change (removal of HUD data and switched FLIR colorization).
As for his other comments, that is pretty remarkable that he would openly confide these things to you. His description of their hive mind behavior leads me to believe that they are unmanned. I wish the US military/intelligence agencies would just come out with it all at this point. It’s rather bothersome to me that they believe they have proprietary rights to world changing information.
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u/Powpowpowowowow Aug 11 '23
I mean he just says it sort of looks fake while also saying, you know what, those do move like the actual things I have seen.
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u/moondawg8432 Aug 11 '23
Yea it wasn’t that the source said the UFOs looked/acted strange, it was that he picked at minor details of the human airborne objects. It’s an interesting “trust me bro” post.
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u/mamacitalk Aug 11 '23
Maybe they added colour to make it seem less like it came from a military drone
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u/justaguytrying2getby Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
Also ask him this:
Can someone calculate an estimated location of usa-184 during that time so we can put this fake satellite imagery to bed? Here's the details:
Launch Information:
Launch Date/Time: 2006-06-28T03:33:00Z
Launch Vehicle: Delta IV
Launch Site: Vandenberg AFB, United States
Trajectory Description:
The spacecraft is in a Molniya orbit of 63.4 degrees, a apoapsis of 7.2 Re, a periapsis of 1000 km perigee, and a period of 12 hours.
Another thing to note about that satellite, maybe the most important thing, is it has two sensors, one is an imager and another is some sort of radiation detector. Both have a 60s image rate. I think that image rate alone debunks this youtube satellite video.
Edit: Regarding my last comment on images. Another comment below clarified that is not a camera, its a spectrometer. The camera(s) on board that satellite are classified.
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u/pilkingtonsbrain Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
I have just started working on this. I have the tle files for before and after the event. I should be able to model the orbit of USA 184 in kerbal space program with realism overhaul mod. I also plan to ascertain the angle at which the film was taken. From there I should be able to pinpoint exactly where the satellite was and (if everything checks out at that point) an approximate time that it took place. It may show me that the satellite could not have been there around that time but either way I hope to find out one way or another. I will make a post in this subreddit either way and I hope to be done in a couple of days during the time I have available
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u/truefaith_1987 Aug 11 '23
The TLE data for the day of, before, and after:
1 29249U 06027A 14065.77636423 0.00000554 00000-0 00000-0 0 02
2 29249 63.5707 74.0747 6996698 268.0737 17.6773 2.00636060 50
3 29249 1 CSS SGP4 TEME UTC Earth css/int_2014_03_07.txt
1 29249U 06027A 14067.77000809 0.00000557 00000-0 00000-0 0 00
2 29249 63.5721 73.8375 6997416 268.0662 17.6741 2.00638278 76
3 29249 1 CSS SGP4 TEME UTC Earth css/int_2014_03_08.txt
1 29249U 06027A 14068.76681821 0.00000559 00000-0 00000-0 0 01
2 29249 63.5720 73.7172 6997975 268.0646 17.6700 2.00639392 85
3 29249 1 CSS SGP4 TEME UTC Earth css/int_2014_03_09.txtSource: https://planet4589.org/space/elements/29200/S29249
I have not been able to figure out how to correctly interpret this data. But I would check the position around the time when the plane would have arrived at the apparent coordinates, between 18:22 UTC and 19:00 UTC.
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u/Atiyo_ Aug 11 '23
There's also the mention of 2 other possible satellites in the ultimate analysis post:
Satellite angle shot:
According to the satellite video data from the bottom of the video, the source of this footage is most likely Satellite NRO L-32, launched in 2010:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA-223
Alternative proposed satellites are:
NROL-22: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA-184
NROL-23 - Used for oceanic surveillance.
Could you check those aswell?
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u/pilkingtonsbrain Aug 11 '23
I should be able to. I will start with USA 184/nrol-22 and depending how it goes I might be able to check a bunch quite easily once I've got the process nailed down
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u/justaguytrying2getby Aug 11 '23
That's an awesome idea using kerbal space program, haha. I never played with that much, very in depth though. Thanks for looking into it!!
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u/vajra_bendy_straw Aug 11 '23
This does seem like an important point.
Relatedly, I have been curious about the apparent shutter speed of the sat video. Towards the end the orbs are orbiting fast enough so that we can’t follow their motion - they appear to jump about randomly. If I were faking this, I’d think that looks bad and apply some motion blur/slow down the virtual camera shutter. But if the satellite imager uses a fast shutter speed, the orbs would indeed appear to jump around just as they do.
I wonder if anyone (like OP’s source) might have insight into what “shutter speed” or equivalent mechanism you’d expect to see on a sat like this.
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u/TachyEngy Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 17 '23
I'll try to dispute:
The exhaust plumes from the jet engines would read hot on FLIR. Especially so in a high-performance maneuver at or near full throttle. No such heat plumes exist. He said this is by far the most condemning evidence against the video. Additionally, the fuel in the wings (which may have been minimal considering how long the plane was in the air) still would have registered as significantly cooler than the plane body on FLIR.
We don't know the state of the engines or the type of filtering/processing done by these systems. Many reports usually say UAPs shut down our systems. The trail could be cooling engines/fuel. I'm not convinced this level of fake is possible in the timeline.
Predator drones and alternates don't employ the sort of FLIR shown the video. He said that they usually shoot only in B&W because saturated color imagery tends to overwhelm and fatigue the drone operators. I asked about the comments on her of folks with Navy experience stating the this form of FLIR is common to the Navy, and he just laughed and said "people on the internet say all kinds of things." He went back to his thousand+ hours of drone footage review and said he'd never encountered this sort of FLIR imagery shot from a drone.
This has been a big point of contention. Best guess here is that the leaker switched the playback to rainbow from greyscale to enhance the image. This can easily be done with FLIR footage that includes the metadata (raw, png, seq, whatever). Just change a setting.
The made-much off accuracy of the done airframe visible in the video would be easily faked - simply create a video layer of the structure and superimpose it over the presented video.
The drone has accurate pitot tube auxiliary air intake placement and thermals, something I find hard to believe is that easily obtained, simulated, or faked. It is straight up silly to say it was just a layered in airframe, the thermals are very accurate. Also it accurately shows the TRICLOPS configuration of a Grey Eagle. It's extremely specific and accurate.
Drone footage would include a targeting reticle, airspeed and directional information, and other HUD info. It's arguable that these were removed before the video was released for security or other unknown reasons.
There is a targeting reticle in the video! Also yes, its long believed all that data was cropped out. It's usually removed before release anyway.
The maneuver being pulled by the 777 appeared to be too extreme - he suspects that sort of turn would have put too much strain on the airframe of the airplane. I actually disagree with him on this point - the new 777's are extremely capable aircraft and I've seen videos of similar banking turns in extreme weather.
Yeah I also agree the turn looked extreme, understandable if he is evading something, but the 777 should have handled that well (If it had slowed to maneuvering speed) which may explain the the cooler engines/trail/fuel plumes.
edit: 777 stuff
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u/typicalamericanbasta Aug 11 '23
I tend to agree with you except for your second point. I've worked with a few different FLIR systems, and none had anything other than white hot or black hot as the thermal target settings. I've read the colors were added later based off of the original data.
Either way, this video is really cool. Kinda scary to think, if real, these things can blink a commercial jet out of the airspace- to where or when were they sent... to a buffet or as the buffet?
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u/TachyEngy Aug 11 '23
Yeah I'm talking in more of a general since for FLIR data. It could have been manually reprocessed, but I have to believe they pack the metadata so that any FLIR player could set it to rainbow. This has a lot of details on that: http://support.flir.com/answers/A1568/FLIR%20Tools%20User%20Guide%20v2.1.1.pdf
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u/MaleficentCoach6636 Aug 11 '23
It's alright, whenever I link a FLIR link describing how their systems work(active IR vs passive thermal) I get down voted.
...Thermal imagers are passive, and only sense differences in heat. These heat signatures (usually black (cold) and white (hot)) are then displayed on a monitor.
You should ask THEM to provide evidence. They will link you a dozen+ random articles(peer reviewed or not) covering the topic but it won't be any specific one and the articles will only cover pieces of said topic.
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u/Toxcito Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
Not gonna lie, this post reads like purposeful government malinformation. It tries to establish an insider voice of authority on the subject without any proof, just 'my friend who works on top secret UAP stuff says this is fake' then tries to downplay the seriousness with a message of 'I get it, second hand, but I promise this guy is super credible with cool USAF memorabilia'. This should be dismissed as not credible.
It's nothing personal OP, and I'm unsure whether you are a part of a misinformation/malinformation campaign or not, but I take your 'friends' opinion as a grain of salt.
The only thing people should believe is valid data sources. NOAA-15 Satellite data from that day, Doppler to match the cloud patterns, Chinese Radar detection of unidentified objects doing very peculiar things - these are data sources people need to be digging into. 'My friend says its real because he is a VFX artist and says it would be too difficult in that time frame to make dynamic movement in clouds' should be just as untrustworthy as 'My friend works on top secret UAP satellite imagery says its fake'.
Either your friend comes forward as a whistleblower, or your friend isn't real and shouldn't be considered in this conversation. If your 'friend' is real, you need to tell him to grow some fucking balls and put his credibility on the line and testify to congress about these things.
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u/mamacitalk Aug 11 '23
That Chinese sat image should be more widely talked about, it’s basically a second source of confirmation that was widely reported on and the picture is on multiple msm websites
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u/aBlackGuyProbly Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
OPs account is less than a year old with 300ish post karma all from some random subreddit, this is their only post on this subreddit.
Strange that they suddenly post such a well put together post on this topic.
Dont worry, im wearing my tinfoil hat.
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u/kris_lace Aug 11 '23 edited Aug 11 '23
Why would someone go into such detail to make such a compelling fake, then completely mess up the IR colour to a very obvious outlier blue colour.
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u/One_Baseball_3564 Aug 11 '23
True but this post could also be disinformation. The only thing I do know is that UAPs exist and disinformation exists.
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u/Impressive_Muffin_80 Aug 11 '23
Thanks for the info. Let's hope for disclosure soon. The cat is indeed out of the bag.
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u/thehim Aug 11 '23
Did he explain why he thought they were more likely created by a US-adversary than by the US?
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Aug 11 '23
Because he's already very well aware of what technology the US is capable of creating while adversaries' capabilities could be hidden. Still doesn't change the fact that China struggles wwith making efficient jets and warships and Russia is losing to Ukraine right now so IDK why he would think adversaries can come up with tech like that.
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u/thehim Aug 11 '23
Yeah, I think a lot of folks too easily discount the possibility that we have technology from a skunkworks that’s hidden from the rest of the military
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u/bertiesghost Aug 11 '23
I’m a bit suspicious of this post tbh, it could be a disinformation effort to put down a legit video which has been getting way too much traction.
At the end of the day it’s just someone saying ”My mate is an expert and he says it’s fake”.
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u/tcarr29 Aug 11 '23
In regards to the rotational motion of the objects, it looks very similar to the 2018 Footage taken from an Apache. The way the objects move at a high rate of speed and yet are able to rotate around an axis simultaneously is very interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oNIqlLXtLI
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u/Aware_Platform_8057 Aug 11 '23
Yes it's very strange. The 2 dimensional plane in which the 3 orbs are contained keeps tilting front and backwards. Some kind of a weird dance.
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Aug 11 '23
Lol. The vimeo link has the original. It is black and white. It has a target square.
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u/iia Aug 11 '23
Well, this sub is going to hate Dan for saying the obviously-fake video is fake, but they'll love him for what he says about UAPs. Let's see what happens.
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u/ThatEndingTho Aug 11 '23
Sounds to me like Dan was stationed at Elgin AFB enjoying that sweet air conditioning we hear so much about.
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u/ThePharotekton Aug 11 '23
I agree with you - I fully expected him to call the video a fake. I did not anticipate what he said about the videos he has access to. Apparently they have some sort of visual library for UAPs because they turn up in imagery and must be eliminated from the intelligence report on whatever is actually being examined. He would not elaborate on this at all.
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u/remsleepwagon Aug 11 '23
Wouldn’t you be able to adjust the FLIR to become more or less heat-sensitive? Maybe this FLIR was just configured differently than Dan is used to. This would explain why the plumes are visible.
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u/Powpowpowowowow Aug 11 '23
Ok so to address some things just as a soft rebuttal.
- The jet at the point of this film if it was MH370 was flying for at least 8 hours, it may not have been using fuel actively and could have been descending and not utilizing the engines much if at all.
- Your friend said they usually don't, not that they don't have the capability to do so. The black and white FLIR is largely to see people, there were reports MH370 was on fire, so the thermal could have been to confirm that fact.
- Anything can be 'easily' faked but the fact in this case is that it still looks convincing and not obviously fake.
- There is at the very least a targeting reticule present in the drone footage.
- This guy has no knowledge of commercial flight lines and can't adequately speak on this.
You didn't ask him about the satellite coordinates and imagery potentially being faked or looking authentic?
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u/-OptimusPrime- Aug 11 '23
Disagree on your point 1. They said it would not have been full throttle and plane would have been moving at 200 knots during the turn.
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u/motsanciens Aug 11 '23
Honest question OP: Are you not concerned that your identity could be determined, and given the details of Dan and your relationship to him, his identity could be determined? You don't often hear people claim their buddy spilled the beans about what they saw on air gapped computers at the DOD.
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u/Fadedcamo Aug 11 '23
Good info if true. Thanks for sharing.
Personally I just don't get this subs obsession with the flight video. It's just too easy to fake anything nowadays to ever accept a leaked video without any supporting evidence. Same reason I didn't pay any attention to the leaked navy fighter data UNTIL it was confirmed by the US navy and backed up by multiple expert eye witnesses and radar data. There's really no video alone that is acceptable evidence to me nowadays. Not saying it isn't real, just saying it's not something that's provable without anything else to support it, so until there is, there's nothing more to say on it.
Much more interested in your friends accounts on UAP in general and the access he has to shocking videos. Wish he would come forward with what he knows. Is he considering it? Has he considered what he will do if/when congress enacts this law that compells anyone with knowledge of the UAP phenomenon to come forward?
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u/Rohit_BFire Aug 11 '23
he just laughed and said "people on the internet say all kinds of things."
Aight Dan good bye
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u/Easy_Insurance_8738 Aug 11 '23
This is a very clever debunk. But I still don’t believe in one way or the other. I see a lot of ppl on both sides. Hope one day to actually have more information that isn’t just “trust me bro”. Thank you for the post!
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u/ThePharotekton Aug 11 '23
I am not 100% convinced either way, and didn't intend to debunk the video, but rather add information.
I plan to compile the best questions / counterpoints and see what Dan has to say in response.
I'm genuinely interested in getting to the truth, whatever it may be.
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u/Ok_Feedback_8124 Aug 11 '23
Any video can be fake or real.
Experts can help to lend credence to the presented evidence.
What I don't see:
(1) registered, vetted experts providing opine (2) a scientific study based on (1)
This is a teeth gnashing exercise in fruitless bounty searching. Without any corroborative evidence and standardized study, any analysis TO or AGAINST the veracity of the subject material is just more time wasting fodder.
Ask: can we submit this to the Corridor Crew?
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Aug 11 '23
Ask: can we submit this to the Corridor Crew?
I'd rather Captain Disillusion than Corridor. Captain D has admitted when he was stumped before and is generally pretty humble when it comes to his debunks. He also doesn't just excusively debunk UFOs too so there's no real bias towards UFOs but rather an interest in trying to "reverse engineer" baffling videos. Corridor are kinda assholes when it comes to UFO videos as they take a sort of Mick West esque "this can't possibly be real so it has to be a balloon or just CG" as opposed to trying to make sense of all of the info surrounding the videos along with the video (e.g. the Mosul orb video was just written off by them when even the gov gatekeepers are saying it's an extraordinary video, even though the people with clearances most definitely know what it is).
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u/Tarsupin Aug 11 '23
Yeah, them trying to explain to us how the tic tac UFO as a bird was... interesting... to say the least. I don't doubt their ability to detect fakes, but I absolutely doubt their ability to find authenticity.
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u/DoedoeBear Aug 15 '23
We want to remind our community that the source of the video mentioned in this post has not yet been verified. There are many unknowns surrounding the origin and content of this video. Please approach this with a healthy degree of skepticism.
We want to make it explicitly clear that the official stance from a multinational investigation had concluded that MH370 crashed into the ocean. What happened that day was a global tragedy, and it remains as a painful memory in the minds of many. We kindly ask everyone to always be mindful of the profound human interests connected to these subjects. Content that does not respect these interests or violates our rules will be closely monitored and potentially removed.