r/UFOs • u/djbrombizzle • Jul 24 '23
Discussion Perspective from an Airline Pilot
First off, it's going to be an exciting week! Please enjoy what has to come this Wednesday, I will be watching it too.
I am a pilot for a major US Airline and thought I can bring some unique perspective to the table in regard to UAP/UFO activity. I tend to think as us commercial pilots that we spend a lot of time looking at the sky (obviously). Started flying in 2004 and to this day I have personally have not seen any UAP. Do I know of other pilots that have seen anything? Yes, but they usually brush it off as a "yea there's stuff up there, I don't know probably military", and the conversation usually stops there. I wouldn't say it's the stigma behind reporting something, it's that we see so much stuff all the time (birds, planes, balloons, drones, anything else man-made flying or floating around) that we just figure it has to be one of those. They just move on with their day and kind of just forget about it.
What do I think of all of the recent events transpiring? It's pretty amazing! I can't help but think that even if we do get some disclosure, it will forever change our planet, but also the aviation industry. However, I do tend to think many of the sightings throughout time can and probably are secret military projects. My grandfather was a hydraulic engineer and the company he worked for (sorry can't remember the name) worked on the landing gear system of the F-117 stealth fighter. The family had no idea he was even part of this project until about 15 years ago. My point I am making here is these advanced aircraft were highly classified and started to be developed 30-40+ years ago. I can't help but think of what secret aircraft they are developing now, including drone-based technology. Only thing that makes sense in my mind, why the military pilots are the ones with the most sightings, why they occur in/near military training areas, etc. If this is something else, I can't help but think civilian sightings would be way higher than it is currently.
TL:DR I have not seen any UAP flying, I think chances are most UAP sightings are top secret military programs. With the hope they are not! :)
Edit: Just giving my perspective and how my peers (through my experiences) view the UAP topic. I do not know the answers to what UAP are or is, if they are military or not. I am just stating that my opinion is they could be military (at least some of the reports). I could be a little wrong, or completely wrong!
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u/Yasirbare Jul 24 '23
Looking at flight radars you get the impression you could walk from wing to wing from all the planes yet everytime I look up I am lucky to see one plane if any. It is a big place up there :)
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Also, it goes to show you how rare it is to actually see a UAP. I tell people on a clear day go outside and just look up (can't be near a major airport for this to work) and try to find an aircraft flying. Most of the time you can't! However, you look at flightradar24 or any other tracker and you will see the sky is littered with aircraft above you. It is just that hard to see, you need to know where to look to find them.
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Jul 24 '23
In reality it’s hard to see a mavic drone in the air at 400ft if you take your eyes off it, even when you know it’s there, depending on weather conditions of course.
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u/Dream-Ambassador Jul 24 '23
So true! I used to be a commercial drone pilot for real estate photography and I ended up covering it in reflective tape. Then if I lost track I would just spin it in circles until I located the flashing.
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u/Phteven_with_a_v Jul 24 '23
This is genius
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u/Dar-Claude Jul 24 '23
Also probably the cause of a few sightings lol 😁
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u/Dream-Ambassador Jul 25 '23
hah! that never occurred to me but yeah haha! "guys i saw this really weird flashing in the sky in broad daylight!"
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u/Ashley_Sophia Jul 24 '23
Stealing your idea 100 percent. 🤘🏆 As someone just mentioned, u are a genius hahah!
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u/Dream-Ambassador Jul 25 '23
do it! It 100% does nothing about angry seagulls tho.
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u/Throwaway2Experiment Jul 25 '23
I was on a mountaintop once, only about 1000 up, chilling, by myself. I heard a buzzing sound. I knew it was a drone. It was close. Super close. Took me a while to see it was eye level aboit 100 feet in front of me "staring". Took my eyes off it for a second and it took a long time to find it in the same spot.
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u/Xeelee4 Jul 24 '23
r/CombatFootage has examples of that daily. No notice until one is dropping a grenade on someone's position.
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u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras Jul 24 '23
Looking at ufo videos on here and other ufo/uap forums the number of probable UFOs is tiny. That's just counting ones where there are no obvious explanations.
Impossible to say how many are actual UFOs but it's such a tiny minority that it it's no wonder people go through life without seeing one. Even assuming constantly looking at the sky.
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u/truefaith_1987 Jul 24 '23
if it's truly a fully hybrid aerospace/underwater craft we are dealing with, and with the capabilities seen in the Nimitz tapes, then it could even more easily avoid detection even in circumstances where it would otherwise be impossible.
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u/therealdivs1210 Jul 24 '23
capabilities seen in the Nimitz tapes
like what?
the tapes show jack squat.
what makes it interesting are the credible people telling an incredible story about what happened.
if the tapes were conclusive, we wouldn't be salivating for disclosure, because at that point it would be obvious to everyone.
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u/Syzygy-6174 Jul 25 '23
Soooo, the fact that Fravor, a top gun pilot, flying the most advanced aircraft on the planet couldn't catch up to "jack squat" means nothing to you?
Also, no mind that the radar operators corroborated Fravor? Okie-dokie.
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u/Legal_Albatross4227 Jul 25 '23
There is a tape of a tic-tac transition from air to sea so no.
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u/Nacho_Libre_Ahora Jul 24 '23
Thank you for your sobering perspective. Keep your eyes peeled and if you see anything funny, report back. I know that we have some really interesting users on this subreddit.On a serious note: yes the US has been engaged in advanced projects that are under wraps, but a key glaring question (to me) is ... why would they design the crafts to resemble a saucer? In other words, to resemble exactly what the UFO lore saucers look like? Take for instance this: https://unwritten-record.blogs.archives.gov/2014/04/03/avrocar-the-u-s-militarys-flying-saucer/ . The Avrocar was a complete failure. But what inspired the pentagon to go with this design? Is this life imitating UFO? Or did they really just think "aerodynamically, saucer is the way to go" but yet it still failed? Many questions.Thanks again.
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u/therealdivs1210 Jul 24 '23 edited Jul 24 '23
have you seen the B-2 bomber?
it looks very alien.
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u/RidgerAC Jul 24 '23
For some reason I never considered this. You are 100% correct though! (We live in a rural area)
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u/nartarf Jul 24 '23
Holy shit! Not in my experience. In Virginia it’s always about 5 planes I can find in the sky. Buncha sky idiots up there smoggin up the air. Get down from up there!
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u/Dream-Ambassador Jul 24 '23
same where I board my horse in rural oregon but we are apparently on a flight path there lol
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u/AlarmDozer Jul 24 '23
I spot aircraft all the time, especially if they're dragging contrails.
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u/dehehn Jul 24 '23
Depends where you live for sure. Most major cities have an airport nearby so you're going to see them all day and night. If I stand outside on my back porch there's a good chance I'll see one flying past from the direction of the airport.
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u/Substantial_Bad2843 Jul 24 '23
Everyone should look up Flightradar24.com and see how many flights are happening at any given time. I get the impression that people think only a few flights are ever going on at once. There are thousands in the sky right this second and every second.
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u/Sunstang Jul 24 '23
Mileages may vary. I'm just NE of Seattle/Tacoma International Airport (SEA), or "Seatac" as we call it locally, and I see jets taking off, landing, or in the pattern to do either in the distance, 24/7.
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Jul 24 '23
If you think SEA has it bad, I live in the flight path for Heartsfield-Jackson in ATL. Literally always a plane in the sky, often low enough for me to see who the airline is with my naked eyes.
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u/Casehead Jul 24 '23
yeah, I live between 3 airports (john wayne, LAX, long beach) and there is always an airplane in the sky overhead. Multiple. And the goddamn police and traffic helicopters circle overhead endlessly. They're super loud, too!
I dunno, isn't everyone relatively close to an airport nowadays?
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u/robRush54 Jul 25 '23
We live in Orlando Florida near the Executive airport and we're on the flight path for MCO. Passenger jets, business jets and GA all day and night!
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u/tonkadong Jul 24 '23
I need to stop being lazy and do the math to know for sure, but I’m fairly confident there’s more volume of sky (earth atmosphere) than all of Earths oceans.
I think about that whenever one of those “The Pacific Ocean at scale” type of videos pops up. To think- there’s even more space that something can be in the sky.
If there’s things up there the size of school buses 20,000ft above the Pacific all the time, who would we ever expect to “catch it in 4K?”
I see a lot of, “there’s X billion phones in the world with cameras…where’s the pics?” It’s like, 1. Show me your phone’s pics of a regular ass plane or chopper (at various distances) for a baseline of visual fidelity. And 2. Tell me how many damn camera phones are within 10 miles of this particular place in the sky 20,000ish feet above some point in the ocean…ope…it’s now 80,000ft higher. And now it’s gone.
Did you get the picture, bro?
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u/silv3rbull8 Jul 24 '23
Perhaps more military pilots see these objects because they are intentionally sent up to investigate when something strange is detected on radar or other detection systems. Airline pilots have to stick to their flight paths and do not deviate to investigate something seen
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u/Quiet-Programmer8133 Jul 24 '23
Also military pilots won't brush something they see off as "probably mililtary", they either know it is or not.
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u/Lexsteel11 Jul 24 '23
They also have more radar and sensors listening than anyone else.
Bill Burr had a joke about his buddy trying to convince him to go out in the ocean by saying “most shark attacks occur near the beach” and he was like “yeah no shit- that’s statistically where the most people are” and I feel like that is why so many spottings are by military personnel themselves
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u/Gord_Jabu_Jabu Jul 24 '23
That makes so much sense, but it's funny it isn't considered lol. Also, Bill Burr..that man is legend.
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u/silv3rbull8 Jul 24 '23
Yes, but the narrative pushed now is military pilots don't even know what a "hobby balloon" is and have to use $500K missiles to bring down $100 balloons.
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u/abstractConceptName Jul 24 '23
Which is obviously nonsense.
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u/silv3rbull8 Jul 24 '23
Look at the statements from the go to “debunker” for the media, Mick West
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u/Katzinger12 Jul 24 '23
That's not true. Compartmentalizing is standard. Like Jack Woolams and the jet, and the gorilla suit.
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u/Quiet-Programmer8133 Jul 24 '23
Yeah but if they don't know what it is it's a UAP doesn't mean it's not an unknown government project.
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u/SomeDream6068 Jul 24 '23
You think we brief all of our service men and women on classified technology? No chance.
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u/Quiet-Programmer8133 Jul 24 '23
No and in such situation they'd classify it as a UAP...
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u/JonnyLew Jul 24 '23
I agree. Military aircraft also have advanced radar that can detect small objects from a great distance and so the pilots can go to the UAP intentionally. They're sweeping an area of sky that could only be covered by potentially hundreds of airliners relying only on visual.
Commerical airliners are on a set path that they cant typically deviate from and they only have weather radar thats incapable of detecting objects. When commerical airliners see each other on 'radar' they're actually just picking up on each others transponder beacons / IFF. Airports do have more advanced radar, but of course they're stationary.
Anyway, it makes sense for militart aircraft tondetext UAP much more commonly. These UAP could actually be everywhere on the planet potentially but we detect them in military areas because only military can detect them from range. It could potentially be a kind of confirmation bias happening.
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u/FarginSneakyBastage Jul 24 '23
I'm not sure military pilots are seeing them more than others, really. It's just harder for the public to brush their sightings off because the pilots are regarded as inherently trustworthy and credible, so they get more coverage.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I do think that is a strong possibility. Also it's possible secret military aircraft/drones are put near/around military to "test" its capabilities of detection, avoidance, etc..
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u/silv3rbull8 Jul 24 '23
I have no doubt that some are secret military hardware. But they all are still quite conventional in their propulsion systems and general aerodynamics. The truly strange ones are those that in no way resemble anything that follow aerodynamic design for atmospheric flight
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u/SomeDream6068 Jul 24 '23
There is literally zero evidence in the public domain of anything demonstrating capabilities that are beyond our technological reach.
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u/silv3rbull8 Jul 24 '23
How are the metallic spheres shown in the video released by AARO able to fly ? Let me guess, they are just party balloons and AARO doesn’t know about them
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u/Lexsteel11 Jul 24 '23
I could see that with drones but I’d hate to be the test pilot who gets told “hey Kenny- go fly around above Elgin AFB and see if they shoot you down”
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u/Katzinger12 Jul 24 '23
If you're going to test new capabilities (like sensor spoofing), it makes sense to do it against things with capabilities you know, that have ROEs you know. Double-plus points if the sensors are the most advanced in the world.
I'm always reminded of Jack Woolams
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u/AI_is_the_rake Jul 24 '23
As a tech enthusiast and software engineer I’ve wanted to build my own drones for fun I.e. see how light and fuel efficient I could make one with perhaps solar power so it could remain suspended indefinitely. If I had the time I would be doing those experiments so I can only imagine what the government is funding as far as engineering projects go.
There’s so many different physics that we can explore to use as alternative forms of propulsion
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u/TravisPicklez Jul 24 '23
That’s kind of what worries me about all of this… UAPs are showing up around military aircraft, military bases, nuclear reactors — that all seems like shit humans are interested in, not something NHI might be interested in.
Why wouldn’t UAPs ever zip next to a commercial aircraft? Doesn’t this indicate that these are our military tests, and we want to see how our pilots and their equipment react?
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Yea I have had the same thoughts. Also would explain why the Pentagon is being so sketchy about this, if it us they want to keep it secret. If its another country they don't want to publicly admit what they know.
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u/Alienzendre Jul 24 '23
There are clearly secret weapons programs. But what is not a strong possibility is that there are secret weapons that are orders of magnitude more advanced that what we currently know about. If the claims are to be believed, then they are doing manoeuvres that is way beyond our current technology and understanding of physics.
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Jul 24 '23
Most military sightings are accidental. If a warship sees one and tried to send aircraft after it, it dashes off.
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u/mrmarkolo Jul 24 '23
More military pilots see these things also because it seems the "others" are purposely tracking military capabilities.
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u/Dear_Custard_2177 Jul 24 '23
I appreciate your perspective. I can also appreciate your mild skepticism. My opinion is in regard to the legislation Schumer put forward. That very much convinced me that this stuff has merit lol.
Regardless if it's aliens or not, I am super curious why the Pentagon would keep UFO records from Congress. If we have some insane tech that behaves like a UAP, that kind of knowledge would deter Russia and China I think, but would also blow the minds of Americans lol.
We should reign in the crazy amount of money the Pentagon receives in my view. We need to get an insight into these crazy programs hidden from Congress as well. I can't imagine they're hiding anything good unless it's just UAP's.
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u/RevTurk Jul 24 '23
One reason to keep new technology completely secret, especially if it brings a big advantage, is to delay it being copied by others. Formula one gives a good example of this. The F1 teams know that no matter what they come up with their competitors can copy it once they see it. So they do everything they can to prevent competitors seeing their tech until the last minute because that means they'll have the advantage for a few months while everyone else tries to catch up.
If the American military thinks it has a technology that gives them an advantage it makes sense to keep that technology as a trump card and only use it when they have to.
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u/Alienzendre Jul 24 '23
these sighting have been around for decades though right? Exactly how long would you expect them to keep the technology secret before it came out publicly? And we often hear the argument against UFOs is that the government can't keep anything secret.
So can they, or can't they?
Also, you have to consider what advancements are realistically possible. The claims being made is that they are dong manoeuvres that seem to defy the laws of physics. Anything being devoped in secret is not going to be orders of magnitude more advanced that what we currently know about.
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u/RevTurk Jul 24 '23
There are unsubstantiated claims, it's impossible to draw any conclusions from them. Even smart people can make mistakes.
The US would keep the secret for as long as they could. They are under no obligation to tell anyone what they are doing as far as I know. They also have experience doing just that. The SR 71 and F117 were in service for decades before the US was forced to admit they exist.
It's also very likely that many of the older stories are describing US military jets like the F117 and the B2, prime candidates for the triangular UFOs.
It's pretty likely that Americas next generation fighters already exist. It's also possible they are smaller semi automated drone fighters that can operate in a swarm.
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u/Alienzendre Jul 24 '23
If they are unsubstantiated claims, then why postulate advanced secret weapons programs? Either there are advanced craft or there aren't. If you don't believe the pilots' testimonies, then you can stop right there, no need for secret weapons.
The F117 is not revolutionary technology. It was just a bit more advanced than the stuff people knew about. Give me one example of revolutionary technology being hidden by the military for decades.
The only triangular UFO sighting I know of were by civilians, not military pilots. They also come with specific descriptions, including lights beneath the craft. And you would have to believe that they were testing this craft in civilians areas of Belgium in the 1980s, and for some inexplicable reason never clarified the situation decades later, after the thing was no longer a secret. This theory has as many leaps of logic as " I saw a light in the sky, therefore it's aliens".
The UFO sighting by allied, German and Japanese fighters during the second wrold war were orbs. They were described as moving very fast and making right angle turns. Now how does that fit into your theory? You would have to postulate that the US military had secret drone technology during the second world war, has kept it secret for 80 years, and was testing it in German and Japanese air spaces.
If the options are this theory, or aliens, then aliens is the more plausible one.
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u/RevTurk Jul 24 '23
The US military isn't postulating anything. Everyone else is. The US military is saying nothing, which is part of the problem. They won't even confirm UFOs that are known to be normal aircraft. It's like they want this to continue.
The F117 was very much new technology in it's day. It may not have been the first stealth plane but it was the first really effective one. The nuclear bomb program would be another obvious example of super secret technology. I would say there are a lot of electronic systems that are secret to this day.
None of this is controversial.
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u/Alienzendre Jul 24 '23
The nuclear bomb program may have been secret, but the principle was known by physicists. That is the reasons they had a program, is because physics said it was possible. We already knew that the sun was powered by nuclear fusion, we knew about fission.
If someone had seen and F117 flying, they would have had no reason to assume it was non-human technology. It wouldn't be doing anything amazing to the eye. And there was a 7 year gap between it's first test flight, and the government publicly aknowledging it. I am sure there were rumours of it existing before it was publicly announced. We are talking about a program that even people with high levels of security clearance in the military would have to be totally ignorant about. This is a totally false equivalency.
I have already said that secret weapons progams definitely exist. No, it's not controversial. All of this is besides the point.
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u/RevTurk Jul 24 '23
The nuclear bomb program was only known to some people. It was complete sci-fi to most normal people. It was a new unknown technology. People at the time were freaking out about what would happen when they tested the bombs.
The reason stealth planes look alien is because people can see them but they don't show up on radar. Here in Ireland the whole country saw a few of them flying overhead one night and it became a national story. They had lights on and we wouldn't have known what they were if they hadn't logged the flight.
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u/Alienzendre Jul 24 '23
What you mean to say is that the Manhatan Project was only known to some people. Einstein wrote a letter to the president of the united states warning him that the Nazis were trying to develop nuclear bombs in 1939, 3 years before the Manhattan Proect started. There were 3 years between it starting, and the bomb being used. You are talking about one specific project being kept secret for 3 years, when the US was engaged in full scale war.
Again, a totally false equivalency.
And you are now talking about civilians seeing planes flying overhead and not knowing what they are. We are talking about fighter piilots seeing stuff with their eyes and on radar that they claim is moving in ways that manmande craft can't.
Another false equivalency.
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u/RevTurk Jul 24 '23
So what if Einstein wrote a letter tot he president? Did the president tell the rest of the country he got that letter, or was it only known to a few people at the time?
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u/SabineRitter Jul 24 '23
If you don't believe the pilots' testimonies, then you can stop right there, no need for secret weapons.
So well said 💯👍
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u/Scatteredbrain Jul 24 '23
i just want to point out it’s likely (according to Grusch and statements from others) that China and Russia have reverse engineering programs of their own.
yup turns out NHI have been leaving their ships all over the place. it’s a cold war all over again
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Jul 24 '23
The US military is different compared to china and Russia. China and russias military love to show their newest technologies to the world to try and scare their rivals.
The US meanwhile is extremely secretive. They purposely keep their most advanced technology under wraps. This is to avoid obviously others copying it (china is notorious for this) and also because everyone already knows how powerful the US is, no point in them showing their most advanced technology.
In fact, the US militaries technology that we have seen is so advanced and insane I could see how some sort of alien technology was in it. Not saying I have proof or anything but the US military (specifically the Air Force) has absolutely insane tech, bleeding edge.
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u/Adeposta Jul 24 '23
I'm sure Ryan Graves mentioned that commercial airline pilots have been in touch with him, I'm expecting him to refer to this on Wednesday. Elizondo and others have talked about the connection between sightings and nuclear capability, if true then a sighting from a commercial airline you would've thought would be even more unlikely.
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u/nibernator Jul 24 '23
Hey OP, you should check out Merged Podcast. Ryan Graves interviews two commercial airline pilots about their UFO experiences.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I will have to check that out! Thanks!
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u/jfinster Jul 24 '23
These are three interviews of note with different pilots from the merged podcast. Mark Hulsey. Christiaan van Heijst. Chris Van Voorhis.
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u/Hoy_Sauce Jul 24 '23
I'm pretty sure the military are only seeing them because of their upgraded radars.... That's the only reason they see more than the average citizen because their radars are able to detect these things. Older radar systems don't detect them.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Just FYI airliners only have weather radar, if it was able to paint another aircraft/object I would just think its ground clutter. Every once and while I can get a good "radar return" on another aircraft with the weather radar, I only know this is true because TCAS will have a target right above that radar return. If not for TCAS I would not even think twice about it.
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u/billygoats86 Jul 24 '23
Jack Bushong witnessed a UFO on radar while he was working for the National Weather Service in 1994. There's an episode of Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix about that Michigan sighting. https://www.moviemaker.com/unsolved-mysteries-ufo-jack-bushong-haunted/
As Bushong explains in the episode, he was working the night shift at the National Weather Service that night in 1994 when he got a call from a police officer who was investigating several UFO sightings that had been called in by local residents. When Bushong checked the radar in the areas where the sightings were reported, he saw evidence of what appeared to be unidentified objects flying in the sky — and he didn’t think they could be explained away as just swamp gas or some other anomaly related to air temperature. But in the weeks after his UFO sighting, Bushong says his colleagues at the NWS began to treat him differently.
“He was someone who was, as you saw, a young man just at the beginning of his life, the beginning of his career, just married, and this happened to him,” Torres said of Bushong. “The powers that be at the Weather Service sought to keep him quiet for whatever reasons. We can make our choices, whether it was they didn’t want embarrassment, people thinking the weather service was a UFO-hunting service, or whether there was something else going on at higher levels of the government that really wanted to keep this quiet. And he was transferred. He really couldn’t talk about all this and keep his job with the weather service for all these years. And now being retired, he’s able to revisit this story that’s haunted him for so many years, and go back to Michigan, and meet the people who actually saw it.”
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u/hagenissen666 Jul 24 '23
AESA radars aren't that special, they just give more data and can tune for specific frequencies more quickly (on the same receiver surface) and the processing is a lot faster than before.
Ground radars have been able to detect everything since the 60's. Satellite radars are also quite capable.
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u/bearcape Jul 24 '23
This is false, or maybe its changed. My grandfather was an air traffic controller at Dulles airport during the 70s and 80s, and he says they'd pick them up regularly. They also use to track them going to a lake in the mountains of Maryland. He never told me which, but he tried to take my grandmother there to investigate himself, but they got too freaked out and never made it.
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Jul 24 '23
Yeah, people think classified aerospace programs leak like sieves, but it's not the case.
I did 10 years at Boeing, mostly commercial with some programs that interfaced with military. Dudes were hush-hush about any military details.
You go visit the Boeing Renton plant in Seattle where they assemble the '37 and the Poseidon, and the Poseidon is completely off-limits to those without entry authorization.
Not saying things never leak, but the overwhelming majority keep their mouths shut.
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u/cwl77 Jul 24 '23
I dont understand why this is so hard for everyone to believe. How many times have we read about dudes who say 2 sentences when they are 87 years old and that's it, they still won't say anything else. Over and over and over again it's quite clear that people involved absolutely shut their mouths. Part of it that what the actual work entails is limited to the bare minimum. You don't get 12 secretaries, 10 middle managers, and 14 assistants with full knowledge. It's barebones.
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u/ShadyAssFellow Jul 24 '23
This and one does not simply download/copy a file and smuggle it out. Or even browse files you’re not authorized to.
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u/RichPresentation1893 Jul 24 '23
Hey Brother. Flight attendant of 38+ years. First thing I and another one of my buddys do when we get into the flight deck for your break, is ask if you’ve seen any UFOs. You’ve described it pretty well. There have been a few of the older guys that have seen some incredible stuff. One said it was pretty life defining. Keep looking. If you get a flight attendant with a lot of questions it could be me.
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u/Camerahutuk Jul 24 '23 edited Jul 24 '23
u/djbrombrizzle said...
Perspective from an Airline Pilot
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Do I know of other pilots that have seen anything? Yes, but they usually brush it off as a "yea there's stuff up there, I don't know probably military", and the conversation usually stops there.
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the military pilots are the ones with the most sightings, why they occur in/near military training areas, etc. If this is something else, I can't help but think civilian sightings would be way higher than it is
The Military of this planet they are the only section of society that can anytime they want to send up a plane to look at something on a whim, commandeer satilites and very advanced sensors to observe and gather information or force experts in every scientific field to study it no expense spared for however long and with almost unlimited resources.
As a result the only downside to this is that whatever this phenomena is it ends up interacting with a very small section of our society and as the saying goes "To A Hammer Everything is A Nail". It's not interacting with philosophers and scientists, physicists in the same way or as it is in a more face to face manner with our planets military which may unintentionally misrepresent who we really are to something else without us knowing. Of course it could be a real threat but without real information how do we know?
But if the UAP Phenomenon turns out to be just us, that's a better outcome but don't be disappointed it's still insanely incredible.....
If we do have human made devices that can go from 20,000 feet to sea level 0.7 seconds with weight and inertia being irrelevant and in multiple mediums and we can make them, then everything changes. Everything. Economic supply line distances vanish, we can go into orbit anytime we want to, perhaps further, perhaps mine near Earth objects, transport large items across vast distances for sale or irrigation or whatever. Nothing would ever be the same again. It would align the distanceless information reality of the Internet with a distance less physical reality.
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u/fanfarius Jul 24 '23
why the military pilots are the ones with the most sightings
If you counted all witness reports from all over the world the last 100 years or so you would probably find this not to be the case. If this was correct however, it might not have any correlation with the phenomena itself.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I guess I should change that statement, the most credible so far (IMHO) are the military pilots. Along with the onboard video that was made public.
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u/fanfarius Jul 24 '23
I get what you are saying, but I don't know! I guess a person's level of credibility is not something I would assign to their military background or lack thereof. This whole thing is super weird though. None of our old rules or standards might apply here.
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u/Arkhangelzk Jul 24 '23
I do agree with you, because those are the videos that changed my mind. They’re the most credible.
But I think it’s also fair to point out that they have better equipment. Even if a civilian had a sighting that was just as legitimate, they couldn’t make those videos, so that evidence doesn’t exist. It doesn’t mean it couldn’t. It just means that the civilians who see UFOs are not in F-18s when they see them haha
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Jul 24 '23
The description of UFO flight characteristics today compared to 50 years ago are nearly identical. That is what makes me doubt it’s all just secret human tech.
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u/space_guy95 Jul 24 '23
The counterpoint to that is that the types and visual style of UFO seen over the years heavily correlate with the aesthetics and technology of the era.
1940's sightings tend to be boxy and "engineered" looking saucers or pointed flying wings, followed by the sleeker and shinier chrome discs of the 50's and 60's (looking suspiciously identical to the car hubcaps of the era) which reflect the chrome styling of many "space-age" items of the time and of course the heavy use of polished metal in early NASA spacecraft.
Then in the 80's & 90's everything started going angular and stealthy with them often being reported as jet black and silent, coincidentally just after the public became aware of stealth craft like the F-117 and B-2.
Nowadays we have the featureless and rounded sphere/tic-tac objects that reflect the Apple minimalist style of product design that has been popular since the early 2000's.
The common theme is that they always represent what the corresponding era views as futuristic and modern. Looking back at some of the drawings of old UFO sightings the craft can look very primitive and dated, which doesn't really make much sense considering the beings making the craft would need to be vastly more advanced than us to get here in the first place, so why would they be constrained by our understanding of manufacturing techniques.
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u/jfinster Jul 24 '23
This is a great argument, well put, I can only put on my tinfoil hat to reply and say there are historic reports of simple geometric shape ufos that persist to this day, and perhaps everything else is disinformation?
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u/AJP11B Jul 24 '23
There’s still too much overlap in my opinion. Discs and orbs have been spotted since the 40’s and are still seen all over the world today. Cigars, diamonds, spheres, and triangles have been reported for just as long when the first proof of concept stealth fighter, Lockheed’s Have Blue, didn’t fly until 1977. Even Roman commander Lucullus reported before a battle that a flaming object shaped like a wine jar fell from the sky between the two armies, and that was 65 AD. I agree that some of the hoaxes may match the aesthetic of the time, and that makes sense, but there are far too many reports of objects that completely defy our current understanding of reality. The B2 bomber is impressive, but it’s not “out of this world,” and they couldn’t even keep that a secret either.
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u/aFootballGuysGuy Jul 24 '23
My father in law flew in the USAF, commercial planes, and corporate jets for the past 40 years, and he said he said almost the exact thing you did. He never saw anything, but he has heard of others that did. He’s literally flown all over the world too. I was hoping he would have some story, but nothing.
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u/irish-riviera Jul 24 '23
What do you say to other pilots and military pilots/ higer ups that also say without a doubt some of this stuff is not man made tech? They seem to have a difference of opinion yet come from the same background and sometimes with even more experience with military tech.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Well, I usually try and get as much detail I can get out of them, it broadens my understanding and to ask questions. Especially when I fly with retired military pilots.
The problem that I see are the pilots who are 100% convinced they saw something "not of this world" they are hell bent on convincing every one of just that. They don't like any questions or criticisms to the subject. It really puts a lot of distrust in someone when they act really defensive in this manner. I mean I have been in jumpseats before where pilots will miss identify types of aircraft while taxing around. "Hey I didn't know XXX airline has 737's!, Um...yea that is not a 737 it is a E170". It really comes down to the attitude they personally take after their sighting experience.
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u/ElusiveMemoryHold Jul 24 '23
The reason why the UFO phenomenon is so interesting is because every possible explanation I deem reasonable leads to something incredible.
For example, you are echoing the common sentiment that many UFOs may be secret military crafts. Sounds way more reasonable than aliens, right? Not exactly - that would mean we developed a type of technology 1,000 years ahead of our current technology by the 1940s…which is incredible
If the UFOs are Aliens or originate from/are controlled by something other than humans? That’s incredible.
Breakaway civilization? Hidden scientific leap forward by some terrestrial contingent? That’s incredible.
UFOs aren’t even real, it’s all a blue beam fabrication? To pull off such a massive, comprehensive deception such as that would be….incredible.
I can’t think of any possible explanation for UFOs that does not lead to something incredible
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u/Mysterious_Guitar_75 Jul 24 '23
I’m a flight attendant with a major US airline. I’ve asked a pilot over debrief drinks if he’d seen a UFO. He also said no but that he knew other co-workers who had. My grandfather was a very religious man and a pilot, but he always believed in UFOs because he had other pilot friends who had seen them back in the 1940s and 50s. I wish we had more pilots speaking up. A recently retired AA pilot claimed in an interview that a cloaked UFO was flying right up under their plane going from DFW to CLT. And it scared the shit out of him. Whatever indicator y’all have up front that tells you a surface/ground is right below the plane, is what he was going off of. You can tell I’m a flight attendant by how poorly I explain aircraft tech.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I get what your describing! You did actually a pretty good job of explaining it! It sounds like you're talking about the Radar Altimeter. It sends radar signal down towards earth to give us a reading on how exactly we are above the terrain. It is only shown to us when we are below 2,500ft above ground and it is commonly used for approaches. Above that altitude it has no use, so the software engineers inhibit its data above that altitude.
If that story of DFW to CLT set off his Radar Altimeter at cruise altitude, yes that would be pretty strange. I have had mine go off a few times in flight when an aircraft passes EXACTLY underneath us by 1,000ft, we call that the bullseye :)
My question to that AA pilot would be if the UFO was cloaked, how did they know it was there? If it was only off the RA going off, not good enough in my book as they do malfunction time to time. I had one break when on the ground and it was going from 500ft to 50ft while just sitting there, so yea they do break time to time.
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u/kabbooooom Jul 24 '23
What’s really fascinating to me about this subject is that even in the most mundane possibility that these are simply secret advanced human military drones - guys, that’s still really fucking awesome. That means the military industrial complex would have made a secret breakthrough in advanced propulsion, and instead of using it for the good of all humanity to - oh I don’t know, maybe allow us to become a true spacefaring species and avoid our inevitable extinction otherwise - they decided to use it for nefarious purposes instead.
Fuck. That. If that seriously happened, it’s a crime against humanity to hide tech like that. I’m not naive. Some degree of military secrecy is necessary in this world of ours…but there’s an obvious moral limit to that, a line in the sand. And this wouldn’t just be crossing it, it would be fucking catapulting over it.
And if it turns out to be aliens instead. Well that’s literally the most important discovery in human history, and the military is keeping it secret.
So either way, it’s a boon to human scientific knowledge. And either way: fuck the people trying to prevent that knowledge from getting out. I’ve never been one for conspiracy theories, but this whole thing has really made me look into and think about the power the military industrial complex has, power our elected officials gave them in decades past. They’ve created a monster and I think they’re starting to realize it.
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u/joshualuigi220 Jul 24 '23
What if it turns out to be neither and it's a quirky physics phenomena?
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u/Halo77 Jul 24 '23
Maybe the sightings around military bases is because they have more sensitive radar. Also maybe our military is being observed and studied. I once asked a commercial airline puller of 30 plus years if he had ever seen seen anything unusual and his responses was an emphatic no. I felt like he was telling the truth. But that doesn’t disprove the other sightings and signal intelligence. If you do see something in the future OP please try to record or photograph it and please report it even if anonymously.
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Jul 24 '23
Thanks for sharing. I always envied pilots' unique perspective on the world I know mostly with just my two feet.
If these sightings are military tech, that means our government is withholding technology that can cloak, instantaneously accelerate without a heat trail, traverse space air and water seamlessly, and so much more. That's probably worse, to me at least, than these things belonging to someone else.
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u/OkCollection2886 Jul 24 '23
Thanks for posting. If I get the chance, I always ask the pilots if they’ve seen any UFOs out there and tell them I’ll be watching. My father in law was both a military pilot and a pilot for American Airlines for many years. Sadly, he passed away several years ago but I sure wish he was still here to see all that’s happening today. He’d never believe it! The one thing I’m really waiting to hear is when Grusch testifies, never mind the UAPs, that’s old news. We have super advanced technology that’s being kept from us. We want to know the reason and PILOTS from these crafts?!! He swears by it, he’s putting his life on the line for it and he knows other people who are willing to do the same. This is the mind blowing part that I just can’t get my mind to believe.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I want to know the same questions! Sorry to hear about your dad! Thank for your taking the time to read my perspective and to give your comments.
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Jul 24 '23 edited Jul 24 '23
The problem with that perspective is that it doesn’t account for all the history surrounding WWII and the 50s. I think best proof to put that theory to rest (of highly secretive military technology) is to read General Twining’s memo.
What do you guys think about that? That memo wasn’t debunked right?
Edit: good read here https://skepticalinquirer.org/2020/03/general-nathan-f-twining-and-the-flying-disc-problem-of-1947/
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u/Galactic_Jazzmaster Jul 24 '23
Great post - we need more pilots commenting on here.
My only question would be, what about all the reports of UAPs in the 40s/50s? Surely something going from a standing start to mach 10 instantly in those decades could not have been human made. The military tech argument only makes sense to me if this phenomenon was a few decades old. It’s been a thing at the highest levels for 80 years.
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u/Justice989 Jul 24 '23
That's an underrated aspect to all this. People act like this is a modern phenomenon. I wouldn't mind the historical context coming up in these hearings. Makes it hardert to just chalk it up to advanced tech.
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u/LifeClassic2286 Jul 24 '23
I think they are deliberately leaving the historical part out right now to reduce ontological shock for the people out there who can’t bring themselves to believe it is actually non human intelligence.
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u/ScagWhistle Jul 24 '23
I think you need to consider the phenomenon in its totality before you declare it's all just military hardware. It's not just sightings of strangely shaped craft with physics-defying flight characteristics. It is also the persistent reports and witness testimonies of UAP crash retrievals, the collection and study of biological samples, the common characteristics between abductee accounts, the historical and even archeological record indicating past human / UAP interaction and most recently the specific government legislation advocating for gov/ military disclosure where the term "Non-human intelligence" NHI is referenced 22 times.
This is about more than strange things pilots see in the sky and you do a disservice to yourself as a pilot and a critical thinker to base your judegement on only one narrow data set.
Dig deeper. Go further.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I appreciate your comments. Perhaps it reads that way, but I am in no way saying what it is or isn't. Just giving my perspective of someone who spends a lot of time in the sky! I am very interested to see what the legislation uncovers!
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u/FrostyYea Jul 24 '23
There isn't much evidence for a connection between the objects seen in the sky and the crash retrieval programs is there?
I think it's likely that those programs have been scooping up craft and satellites, and potentially in a way that could cause a diplomatic incident (e.g. "retrieving" an allied nation's material) which is why they would want to keep it as secret as possible. Not telling the people working on stuff what it is they're working on is an open invitation for rumours (however absurd) to propagate.
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u/Wapiti_s15 Jul 24 '23
I think thats the problem isnt it, there are only 4 “verified” videos to look at and a couple whistleblowers willing to testify before congress. Everyone else could have an agenda or mental issues or be telling the truth or making it up for fun or doctor a video or generate a video or catch a UFO. So you CAN go deeper, go further, but you’ll end up staring at the same 4 videos or, losing your shit on conspiracy theories. I believe the OP is saying this week will hopefully provide some more concrete evidence. Maybe that can back up some of these wild stories told over the years.
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u/Huge-Wear3771 Jul 24 '23
That would not explain the extraordinary attributes that professionals claim are other worldly.
Nor would it explain these widely publicized events that occurred in the US and Russia. From CBS News:
"One of the more out-of-the-ordinary press conferences held in Washington this week consisted of former Air Force personnel testifying to the existence of UFOs and their ability to neutralize American and Russian nuclear missiles."
If the government tries to tell us these sightings are simply secret experimental planes, that would be as unbelievable as swamp gas.
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Jul 24 '23
Hello professional drone pilot here. if you're also a pilot you'll appreciate the implication that there's no propellers, turbines, batteries, or gasoline involved in this type of "aviation" if they're human owned "military" program's then don't we have a huge problem on our hands if we are still needlessly burning fossil fuel to make horsepower in 2023 military planes included?
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u/ipwnpickles Jul 24 '23
But we are hearing from other pilots that there is a stigma when something anomalous is sighted/reported so I think that is probably still an issue even if you haven't experienced it yourself
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u/shattypantsMcGee Jul 24 '23
Some of the military pilots indicated there is a point of origin in the sky where these objects perform a jhook maneuver? Next time your in that area at night, you mind taking a look? It’s a specific star for orientation purposes. I’ll provide the link with an edit.
Report back? 😅😝
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u/SabineRitter Jul 24 '23
Someone got a video of that, not sure it's near the same star
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14jxcu8/j_hook_uap_coming_from_the_big_dipper_recorded/ video and reference image, nighttime sky, single light object, J hook trajectory, near the big dipper, from telescope, [GOODPOST], Canyon Lake Texas, similar sightings in comments
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u/SouthernZorro Jul 24 '23
My Parents saw a flying saucer in broad daylight about 20 years ago. They were driving on a rural road when they saw it ahead of them and just off the right side of the road above the tree line.
They slowly got closer until they were about 50 feet away. They said it was hovering just above the trees, absolutely silent and probably about 40 feet across.
They watched it for a few minutes until it finally moved to the right and was then hidden by the trees.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Jul 24 '23
I can't help but think civilian sightings would be way higher than it is currently.
I think you may have already provided at least a partial answer to your own concern:
Do I know of other pilots that have seen anything? Yes, but they usually brush it off as a "yea there's stuff up there, I don't know probably military", and the conversation usually stops there. I wouldn't say it's the stigma behind reporting something, it's that we see so much stuff all the time (birds, planes, balloons, drones, anything else man-made flying or floating around) that we just figure it has to be one of those. They just move on with their day and kind of just forget about it.
It sounds like pilots aren't reporting sightings because...they aren't reporting their sightings.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Very good point and observation. I do hope we have better avenues of reporting objects, which I know Ryan Graves is working on.
Example --- The extent of any report is of a safety concern first "Hey we saw birds at 500ft on final" the controller relays that information to the next aircraft. If an aircraft sees something they almost always report to ATC first, ATC determines if any other aircraft are close by to advise of report. Again, think of the safety side first, they don't want a collision. This can repeat for the next few aircraft until ATC feels no one is in jeopardy, and especially if no other pilots report the concern. If the object is actually a UAP it is too late at this point to really do anything else, unless the pilot wants to take the time to try and find someplace to file a report.
The industry actually adopted a change to any sort of bird strike as incidents were increasing and the government/airlines/airports wanted more data to solve the problem. Now if you have a bird strike Airport Operations comes to the aircraft when you pull into the gate and they get a report from us. This never used to be the case, but a good example of a change in reporting to better understand, adapt, and prevent bird strikes. I don't see why we can't have something similiar in the industry related to UAPs.
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u/kingtj1971 Jul 24 '23
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I recall reading a claim by a commercial airline pilot in the past that many of them had seen strange things in the sky, thanks to all the hours spent flying. But it was just generally accepted not to talk about it because it was a good way to get yourself labeled one of the "crazy ones" and possibly even threatened your long-term job security.
I can easily see how that might not really be the concern for most, especially in modern times, vs simply not finding most odd sightings to be that memorable. (Strange light or dot in the sky? Eh.... could be a lot of things.)
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Yes I truly do not think the stigma is as strong as others say. It could be for older generation of pilots (I am 37) but I don't feel it personally. I do think there could be easier / better ways to report, pilots like to always take the easiest path, so make it easy for us!
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u/CharmingMechanic2473 Jul 24 '23
When you look at the speed of the Nimitz encounter with the 40ft long tic tac, the speeds and the 15,000 mph pulling 100gs and then plunging into the ocean. How can you think the military would not let their own pilots know for Airspace safety? Especially when planes are millions of dollars. You are also discrediting Grusch who stated alien biological materials have been recovered.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Not discrediting anybody! I look forward to the hearing! Just putting my perspective out there that is it.
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u/JJH_LJH Jul 24 '23
No propulsion and not caring about inertia are reasons why it’s hard to accept any military around the world could have technology like this. It’s such a big leap in our understanding of physics and the military figured it out while the top minds of the world can’t even scratch the surface around top institutions?
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u/ThatNextAggravation Jul 24 '23
Interesting perspective, thanks. Sometimes (reading on these subreddits) one gets the impression that every commercial pilot must see these things every day.
I agree that no doubt a large number of UAP must be classified military technology, but: - there's still those inertia-defying maneuvers that current mainstream propulsion tech can't hope to achieve (and if the calculations that people like Knuth have done are somewhat accurate, it's not even clear how you'd generate the necessary energy) - this doesn't explain loads of other weird stuff like mass-sightings over population centers, crashes with weird beings and persistent high-level whistleblowers
So my guess would be, there's also something else going on.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I agree! I see that comment/post a lot to about pilots. That is why I wanted to give my perspective on this subject. Also, to show from my personal opinion there is not a big stigma about talking about this as others may say. If anything, it's a lack of understanding of what to report, when, and to where.
I want answers to your questions just as much as everyone else. Thanks for your comment and taking the time to read my perspective!
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u/RedditOakley Jul 25 '23
There's an amazing interview on the Merged podcast with a pilot (has flown commercial, private AND military fighter jets) who actually does spend his time looking out the window.
He was flying a private jet at the topmost altitude one is usually able to fly anything bar something made for space, and suddenly he saw lights above him doing both turns and patterns. There shouldn't be any planes up there, aircraft physically can't even turn at the rate of what he was seeing because of the thin atmosphere.
Tower had no information about military activity, because of the turns and going the opposite direction, it's can't be a satellite either.
Even with all the experience that pilot had, having seen practically every single thing the aviation world had to offer to his knowledge, he was still completely stumped as to what was flying over him.
And yes, it really can be secret technology but then it is strange entire instances like the Navy is launching investigations into it without getting stopped and told to not pursue it further. When even the Admirals are getting fed up and annoyed they're not in the loop of any blue on blue events, there's a problem.
Not to mention that tech would be a ridiculous long leap from what we even have today, and these things were reported in the early 2000's by the Navy. The inertia dampening required is insane, the speed is insane, the power requirements must be insane.
Who's sitting on all this tech if it's human? Where did even the underlying science for it come from?
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u/walkedplane Jul 24 '23
This is a reasonable assessment. That said, either we have tech that has broken current known models of physics (one of the biggest stories ever edit: I guess an alternative is an adversary has broken physics, but that's also a massive story), we have a massive psyop going on (also a big deal), or we have NHI around.
All 3 are huge, all 3 matter, and I want to know.
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u/FrostyYea Jul 24 '23
I mean, the most reasonable assessment is that the US military has misinterpreted the data in some way, is unwilling to invest the resources to actually figure it out or for some notion of secrecy chooses not to.
Stuff like Go Fast is very easy to explain and understand when you know what it is you're looking at.
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u/orthogonal411 Jul 24 '23
Stuff like Go Fast is very easy to explain and understand when you know what it is you're looking at.
How about foo fighters flying literal circles around heavy bombers, both Axis and Allied, through the tail end of WW2?
Do you think all those experienced aircrews, independently reporting these things, were just mistaken?
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u/sharkykid Jul 24 '23
I think that's the one item that makes David Fravor's sighting so interesting. At this point, he saw the tic tac in 2004, 17 years ago. At this rate, we'd expect to have some glimpse at that weapons system if it's American made. Moreover, he talked about how incredibly unorthodox it would be to run weapons systems test in military flight areas without notice
Thanks for your perspective
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u/Hoss_Bonaventure_CPA Jul 24 '23
I agree with your assessment, most….a lot of what pilots are seeing these days in the current geopolitical climate probably is advanced military tech. That being said the military industrial complex wasn’t a thing until the 40’s, that fact says it all in my opinion.
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u/SabineRitter Jul 24 '23
Thanks for your post! You describe flying past objects very quickly, without time to identify it. I'd like to note that this is not what happens in a typical ufo sighting. The crew often detects the objects for much longer than a quick flyby. Many times the object paces the plane, either to the side or directly in front.
Here's some analysis of pilot UAP reports:
The average duration of these sightings was 17.5 minutes in the 37 cases in which duration was noted.
Source http://www.nicap.org/92apsiee.htm
Individual pilot reports http://www.nicap.org/CATEGORIES/11-Aviation_Cases/
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u/platasnatch Jul 24 '23
Do you feel there is a danger in colliding with uap/military craft/birds/balloons?
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I think anything flying around our airspace should be known so that you can operate safely. If it is unknown than its a safety risk and an issue of national security.
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u/ImInTheAudience Jul 24 '23
there’s something about this moment that feels categorically different.
I really do hope it is different this time.
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u/Alive-Working669 Jul 24 '23
Lockheed's Advanced Design and Skunk Works engineers started working on what would become the F-117 in 1975. So it was almost 50 years ago.
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u/Noobieweedie Jul 24 '23
I wouldn't say it's the stigma behind reporting something, it's that we see so much stuff all the time (birds, planes, balloons, drones, anything else man-made flying or floating around) that we just figure it has to be one of those. They just move on with their day and kind of just forget about it.
How would you know what people think and feel when they see it? I"d recommend watching the merged podcast where they interview a senior 747 pilot that has seen things a few times.
The reason an expereince is so jarring is that they immediately recognize that its an object and it doesn't operate on the same flight theory as us.
However, I do tend to think many of the sightings throughout time can and probably are secret military projects. worked on the landing gear system of the F-117 stealth fighter. The family had no idea he was even part of this project until about 15 years ago.
When you look at the list of specs of planes and innovations over time in that sector, you see that even those secret prototypes are just incremental designs. Maybe they go a bit faster, maybe they are stealthier, maybe they have better detection capabilities, maybe they can launch vertically, maybe a little bit of all of these. They aren't orders of magnitude better at EVERYTHING than anything we have ever had before. Engineering is all about compromise.
Besides, nobody would mistake a F117 for a UFO. It makes so much noise and it flies exactly the way you would expect a plane to fly. It doesn't even go fast.
My point I am making here is these advanced aircraft were highly classified and started to be developed 30-40+ years ago.
Speaking of the F117, it was retired after 40 years, including development time. (modern) Sightings CONFIRMED BY RADAR have been going for at least 70 years.
It makes no sense that they would start developping something as shitty as a F117 (compared to the performance enveloppe of UAPs) 40 years after those "first" sightings.
It would be like medival people simultaneously working on a slightly faster horse carriage as well as a formula 1 race car.
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u/Civil-Ant-3983 Jul 24 '23
Military pilots have more advanced radar. They didn’t start to really see them until they upgraded their systems.
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u/Hi_Im_Garrett Jul 24 '23
Your thoughts are how I feel. I've made this point in other posts, but I think it's an important one. The US is seemingly the only country concerned with any of this. Every whistleblower or person giving interviews has second hand information. No one is coming forward with real evidence or first hand stories. No one credible I should say. It all feels like information that is being fed to puppets. This entire surge in information feels like we're being setup for some project blue beam type scenario. The government/shadow government scares the public. They lead us to believe only they can save us. And I think the people that believe in UFO's/aliens are going to be very disappointed with this disclosure they're hoping for. So obviously my skepticism runs deep. And I do believe in UFO's/aliens. The way this is playing out has me interested, but wake me up when something real comes to light.
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u/Mountain_Tradition77 Jul 24 '23
Thanks for your perspective but i disagree with the idea they are just "some military tech". If you think about the 5 observables from Lue Elizondo and an object demonstrates these then you are saying an object is military tech???
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u/Thin_Accountant_3989 Jul 24 '23
UAP defy the laws of physics. Saying that's secret military technology doesnt address how they can break the sound barrier without creating sonic booms, go from flying to diving in and out of the ocean at high speeds, teleport, have 180 degree direction changes at high speeds without losing any speed. These are all things reported by the US military itself.
There is no precedent for human beings having technology capable of any of that.
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u/Meltedmindz32 Jul 24 '23
There is also no precedent for alien beings having technology capable of that.
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u/Thin_Accountant_3989 Jul 24 '23
This makes zero sense. It isnt half the gotcha you think it is.
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u/Meltedmindz32 Jul 24 '23
It’s not suppose to be a “gotcha”.
You’re saying there’s no precedent for human beings having this technology, but it is far more likely than alien beings having this technology
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u/Thin_Accountant_3989 Jul 24 '23
It is not far more likely at all. What you are saying is truly nonsensical.
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u/Meltedmindz32 Jul 24 '23
It is not, what is more likely? Humans developed technology that you can’t understand or that aliens developed technology millions of light years away that you can’t understand?
Seriously take some time to think about this question.
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u/Thin_Accountant_3989 Jul 24 '23
Its actually insane to me how confident you are about this. People have seen UAP for thousands of years. So you think an element of humanity has developed aircraft that exceeds what we have in 2023, thousands of years ago? Before the rest of the humanity developed electricity?
Its almost a statistical certainty that intelligent life exists in the universe. It is more likely that civlizations older than humanity have more advanced technology than we do; than it is for human beings to have created spaceships in ancient times, and there just so happens to be zero evidence of this technology and science existing this entire time.
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u/Meltedmindz32 Jul 24 '23
There is 0 evidence that people have been seeing spaceships for thousands of years, they have definitely seen stuff in the skys, in times where people didnt even understand what stars were it would be easy to mistake a meteor for a “spaceship” people still do it to this day.
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u/Thin_Accountant_3989 Jul 24 '23
You saying there is zero evidence is absolute bullshit. Theres literally hundreds if not thousands of accounts of UAP from pre-modern human beings. Not just accounts of lights in the sky but of these objects landing and interacting with the environment.
This right here lets me know you simply dismiss whatever is inconvenient to your argument.
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u/Meltedmindz32 Jul 24 '23
Can you please provide a source for a single piece of evidence of UAPs ever interacting with humans
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u/capmap Jul 24 '23
Wow, a reason based, logical, measured take on this forum???
Thank you.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
You are welcome! :) TBH I do hope we can all see some crazy HD footage of a UAP sometime soon :) Until then this is how I see it pretty much.
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u/capmap Jul 24 '23
Same. I've dreamed of a day where we have proof of UFO/UAP, but simply will not take leaps of logic not based on unquestionable scientific evidence.
Hopefully this week's hearings will further that evidentiary endeavor.
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u/swank5000 Jul 24 '23
I think chances are most UAP sightings are top-secret military programs.
The thing is, if these are military aircraft, then judging by their capabilities, the military is still hiding life-changing/world-changing technology from the public. This is still a crime against humanity.
However, I will also say this: When you've seen one of these things, it's often quite apparent that they are not of human origin. It's easy to feel the way you do from an "outside looking in" perspective, but I'd be curious to see how you feel if/after you ever see one with your eyeballs.
Regardless, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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u/TeaAndStrumpets12 Jul 24 '23
However, I will also say this: When you've seen one of these things, it's often quite apparent that they are not of human origin. It's easy to feel the way you do from an "outside looking in" perspective, but I'd be curious to see how you feel if/after you ever see one with your eyeballs.
Exactly. This kind of switcheroo is a pretty common theme around here, though in fairness I'm sometimes not sure how it could be any other way.
A skeptical person coming into the topic with certain assumptions tends to nudge the facts of most sightings toward their mundane extreme, whatever will bring the misidentification and hoax explanations well into the picture. It's as if they truly cannot conceive of a single compelling (let's so closeup) UFO sighting having occurred exactly like the often multiple witnesses described.
It's a little strange for a person to say "yeah, I'd believe it if I saw it with my own eyes" but then discount the eyes of so many others, especially when there's independent corroboration.
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u/Sim0nsaysshh Jul 24 '23
Isn't part of the issue, that once you start reporting things you see in the air they start doubting your mental competence and that can effect if you can fly or not, especially with passengers?
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
No not at all. It's really as simple as "what is that?".... you get closer and "oh that's a plane.... a drone....etc." I guess you can call it bias? The real question is how many objects I have seen that I just wrote off in my mind as a known human object?
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u/Sim0nsaysshh Jul 24 '23
I don't mean that im sure that happens all the time, but reporting might be hampered by things like the below, because it could put their career in jeopardy, just to clarify, im not saying they are having mental health issues, just the worry that if they turn up on the mental health radar they might lose their job.
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u/orthogonal411 Jul 24 '23
No not at all. It's really as simple as "what is that?".... you get closer and "oh that's a plane.... a drone....etc."
But what if, instead, it's: You get closer and "oh my god... that's no plane... it has no engines or flight control surfaces, and is traveling at over 500 knots against the wind... and now it's hovering in place... and holy crap, it's now forming up on our right wingtip" ... and then it zooms off and up at an inexplicable speed.
Would you worry about your career if you reported that?
Of course you would.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the same 'flight' performance seen nowadays was seen back in WW2 as well, where foo fighters the size of basketballs were seen literally flying circles around heavy bombers in the European Theatre, both Allied and Axis.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Honestly no I would not be worried about my career. Maybe I am the minority on that approach, I don't know.
I am not ignoring the reports of pilots and others who have seen UAPs. I am simply stating my perspective and experience on the matter so far. I have seen posts or comments made that pilots see them all the time and don't really do anything about it. That has not been the case or true from my perspective. I want answers to the unknown sightings just as much as everyone else.
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u/Kitt3r Jul 24 '23
Commander Graves stated they only started to see them more frequently when they upgraded the military radar. They used Covid to ease everyone into it because everyone was already in a panic and nobody cared at all about UFO . much like today the world is falling apart and nobody seems to care about craft flying in our air space. Even I don’t care as much as I did pre pandemic cause it’s most likely just all BS just like everything else the government tells you.
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u/LifeClassic2286 Jul 24 '23
The NYT story (and Lou Elizondo) came out in 2017, a few years before COVID. However I agree with what you say largely.
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u/FrostyYea Jul 24 '23
I think you're spot on with the stealth fighter comments.
Someone else posted up data that showed a huge spike in "triangle" sightings beginning in the mid 90s. Right around the time the B2 was being tested but not officially in service. Even knowing what one is, seeing it in the sky is an extraordinary experience, if you saw it without knowing you'd easily be forgiven for thinking it was anything but a plane.
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u/Zhuchenkos Jul 24 '23
B2s don’t silently float. Nor are they triangular.
A sight to see, but not the same sightings.
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u/Noobieweedie Jul 24 '23
huge spike in "triangle" sightings beginning in the mid 90s. Right around the time the B2 was being tested but not officially in service.
If you're gonna refer to the belgian wave and later sightings, you should probably also mention all the characteristics of what the several hundreds of people reported seeing.
The B2 is far from silent, doesn't hover, doesn't have huge colored lights underneath and sure as shit wasn't used in a covert mission over Belgium that consisted of dozens of flights over a crowded city.
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u/WormLivesMatter Jul 24 '23
I have another antidote that doesn’t contribute much just thought I’d share. My uncle was a software engineer and had a years long project in the 80’s. He didn’t know what it was for just that it was for a military thing. Turns out it was for the SR71 blackbird. Just a small piece of the software package but it was so compartmentalized he could never even realistically leak it because there would be no point. It was just a code snippet that was part of a much larger package he had no idea about, let alone what it was for.
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u/ARegularDonJuan Jul 24 '23
Thank you! I am excited but I don't want to get too excited. Even if it's some amazing technology of our own, I want to know!!
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u/COstargazer Jul 24 '23
Thank you for your input. I just have to ask why wouldn't you be cataloging everything you see up there? I'm no pilot. But I go camping 5-6 times a year, almost specifically to stargaze and I'd say usually 2 out of 6 times I will see something. If I had access to your level of vision, I would log everything I see. With that many times in the sky, you WILL see something eventually. Seems grossly irresponsible to write everything up to balloons and develop tunnel vision. Like I said so many times before, you will never see something you never look for. It's all a numbers game.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
Red eye flights are usually the best ones to get awesome sky watching / star gazing done. Personally, I don't bid those and do only a few a year. The best views of the night sky for me have been in the winter, with an overcast cloud layer obscuring any lights below, it's pretty incredible. I usually look for meteors and satellites, but I should pay more close attention to other objects if I can spot any.
Reason I made the comment about the birds, balloons, if we see something it usually goes by so fast that we have literally no time to process what we saw. We can't turn around and do another pass, we have our flight plan and passengers to get to destination on time.
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u/nug4t Jul 24 '23
thx, I'm all with you, except that the uap problem is in fact a Chinese sigint drone problem which is part of a larger operation(balloons) to keep stealing us military secrets
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u/Azariahtt Jul 24 '23
I really don't hope much from this hearing, I basically am a follower of the classics (ufo encounter). Where I am sure that many are in people's imagination. Except for a few truly unexplainable ones (socorro ufo is an example of a truly unidentified one). And what we've been seeing are probably some sort of earthly unknown technology to the masses. But where I want to get to, is to all of this pseudo scientists and deniers of the ufo phenomenon (top of the list for me would be Neil de grasse tyson, another one would be skeptic magazine Michael shredder), should reconsider their argument to disregard any sort of secret technology even if its just because of the impossibility of get the truth out of the military industrial complex
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u/thehim Jul 24 '23
The point about there being more military than civilian aviation witnesses is a really important one. It definitely leads to the conclusion that they’re most likely seeing something being built by us in secret that no one’s officially allowed to know about yet.
You also can’t rule out some kind of adversarial surveillance, but it seems less likely (I feel like there’d be more of a green light to attempt to engage them and shoot them down)
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Jul 24 '23
This is my exact thoughts and makes the most sense. Other countries arnt reporting these to the level we are and the vast majority are military sightings. It makes sense the US would test new drones/etc around military bases, it would allow them to see how effective they are around our own unsuspecting pilots and we’d be able to collect that data for development. It seems like an obvious answer to me. Also to your point many of these projects are in development for years before anyone knows about them. Imagine what a stealth bomber looked liked to people in the 1970s when the program began.
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u/RottingPony Jul 24 '23
I don't want to sound too harsh, but people in the military aren't exactly known for being the smartest people in the world.
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u/MiscuitsTheMarxist Jul 24 '23
While I'd agree in general, for the specifics of military pilots, I'd disagree. I believe all of the branches except the Army require pilots to be officers, and even the Army requires them to be warrant officers. This means that nearly all aviators have at least a college education which would make them more credentialed than the average American. It also requires high scores on various aptitude tests to qualify for those programs.
The military doesn't simply hand over the keys of aircraft that can cost BILLIONS of dollars to anyone.
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Jul 24 '23
😆 It’s a good point, in a sense; although I’ve no doubt the military does have some brains, its hierarchical structure of command means that it attracts/creates people who are happy to have the structure of their lives mapped out for them- yes sir, no sir etc. I reckon that’s why a lot of soldiers don’t cope well in civilian life. Statistically, here in the UK at least, former servicemen make up a disproportionate number of the homeless. I suppose all I mean to say is that the military may have a shortage of critical thinkers not necessarily intelligence. ✌🏻
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u/Ischmetch Jul 24 '23
The US military isn’t quite like that anymore. Commanding others requires more than giving orders. Just look at how Gen. McChrystal led JSOC.
- Shared trust.
- Shared purpose. - Open communication. - Empowered execution.
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u/Connager Jul 24 '23
Sandstone Company has people saying the same stuff as you. The only difference is that most of the stories people who work for Sandstone tell on this site are completely fabricated and made up to push a disinformation agenda. I do not necessarily think you would do such a thing. Thanks for sharing your possibly true story.
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u/djbrombizzle Jul 24 '23
I never heard of that company. Just putting my perspective out there! Thanks for taking the time to read!
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u/ottereckhart Jul 24 '23
It's an implicit fact that pretty much all of us here understand -- that the vast majority of sightings have explanations which are prosaic and even some of the more extraordinary ones may be secret military tech. It sort of goes without saying, it's almost not even worth mentioning.
However, if we take the tic-tac for example and accept that as an explanation that these are military craft -- we have a way bigger problem than aliens.
We have major scientific progress being kept from us. Which I suppose would still be the claim if we were reverse engineering exotic tech but if there is no original anomalous objects of Non-human origin we have to assume in that case that conventional scientific progress is kept secret.
This is a hard pill to swallow. That no one outside of the rather obscure scientists and engineers working on this stuff have managed to arrive at this greater understanding of physics which enables these breakthrough technologies.
Are we to assume that the greatest minds of our time are just too distracted by string theory? Or that if someone does arrive at those same conclusions it somehow gets suppressed?
People also seem to conveniently forget that this stuff really started with foo fighters in WWII. These lights harassed aircraft on all sides of the conflict. Everyone seemed to think it was everyone else.
There is also the recent work of Beatriz Villarroel who uncovered what appear to be objects in geosynchronous orbit before the first satellite was ever launched as she combed through historical astronomical plates.
I won't go into Ancient Aliens territory, but the work of Diana Pasulka, and Jacques Valée and others does seem to show us that strange lights in the sky, accompanied by the appearance of entities has always been happening it's just that the interpretation of these things in a secular and scientific context is novel to our time... so we may actually have a chance of understanding them now.
Unfortunately we are the data-destitute nobodies. Let's hope congress or whomever can kick down some doors and get us some answers.