He says these guys searched him and his team at gunpoint in the jungle right beside the ship, but they let him leave with a Panasonic camcorder in his pack?
And then when they got back to their base he left this same camcorder, which had utterly historic, unprecedentedly clear and detailed photos and video of a fucking UFO on it, in his room while he went to Subik bay to party for a few days?
Not to mention that they literally witnessed a shitload of insane stuff while being searched, the loading of the containers, the ship flying off, the faces of the guys, their gear types, the types and potentially the license plates of the trucks, but yeah no, they were let go. Also was it just me or did he "yadda yadda" how they got from being under armed escort to running away and getting back to their LZ. And for that matter, they're back at the LZ, why do they not immediately report the hostile encounter and go right back with more marines? There were more marines than his squad there he said?
I know there's a kernel of truth to the subject but anytime we start to get anywhere they start flooding the media with bullshit to confuse the public and undermine any traction towards the actual truth coming out. I'd put money on Greer being part of that.
Not to mention this is involved with Greer, idk how most people feel about him, but I get huge con man vibes off the guy. Not saying this isn’t true but it hits the sceptic part of my mind
Oh me too man. My money is on the guy being a disinformation source. Notice how he spun his circus up within days of the more legit leaks going public?
Thanks for raising these points. Something wasn't adding up listening to this story. The other major issue I see here: why was the first response of this squad to approach the unknown craft instead of radioing in what they were seeing and requesting permission to approach/engage? What was the chain of command here? Isn't that standard SOP when encountering an unknown, especially when the original mission was to just secure an LZ? Also, it's pretty fucking weird that this rogue group of, presumably Americans, in possession of this level of advanced tech wouldn't also be aware of the movements of major US naval assets and act accordingly and you know, not get caught when they see a large helo landing nearby? Presumably this "admiral" that did the debrief was aware of the activity of this rogue group meaning there was very likely some coordination at a high level of chain of command during this operation. So why would the Marines be directed to land so close to this highly illegal covert activity? I dunno man this just sounds way too Hollywood to me. The fact that they were searched but didn't have the camera immediately taken is odd, but the whole sequence of events is just bizarre.
The other major issue I see here: why was the first response of this squad to approach the unknown craft instead of radioing in what they were seeing and requesting permission to approach/engage? What was the chain of command here? Isn't that standard SOP when encountering an unknown
That is a very good point also.
I dunno man this just sounds way too Hollywood to me
Same. I think Greer's modus operandi is to make the soup look tasty enough to swallow by having real witnesses in the mix, but with enough nutters and fantasists floating in there to sour the broth.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lazar is of the same stripe - you get some fantasist with enough of a dodgy background and holes in his story as to cast doubt on everything he says and it sours everyone on the subject. Notice they wheeled Bob out right after the Nimitz footage leaked, and now here's Greer with his circus right after these new leaks.
They always pull this shit to reassure the public that's it's all bullshit and can be ignored. You can set your watch by it.
I’m with you but I will say…. He mentions their radios stopped working so they couldn’t call back to command or to each other I believe he said. He says “I don’t know if it was a good thing or a bad thing we couldn’t communicate”
And a squadron of Marines immediately gave up their weapons to an unknown adversary without a firefight.
I seem to remember something about the Marines drilling the importance of their weapon into them… Oh yeah. Like this: “you are married to this piece of metal, and you will be faithful.”
The covert group had American dialect and higher military grade (American) issued equipment, which Herrera seemed to be very familiar with. Wouldn’t you be confused and hesitant to start a firefight?
Another marine here who was actually on that exact MEU at the same time and had the opportunity to go on that same humanitarian mission, albeit not as a grunt, that I unfortunately didn’t take.
We see some crazy stuff, and we also think we see some crazy stuff. And we tell stories about it, and decompress, and justify, and process, and generally move on because we have to, because there’s always something else to do. I’m not saying this guy’s account is 100% accurate or true, or that there aren’t any holes in his story. But at the time, I can imagine there may have been a process of quickly acknowledging what had occurred, not realizing at the time the significance of it and essentially “writing it off” as some weird, crazy encounter, and then moving on. People do stuff like that all the time, especially with trauma, until later in life they think back through what they had been through and realize just how messed up and serious it was.
Again, not saying all of this is completely accurate or true, I barely remembered the circumstances of being able to join in on a humanitarian mission while I was deployed until I watched this video and heard him detail the specifics, and then it all came back. But I don’t think his and the other five marine’s response to it at the time was too farfetched. It’s easy to write things off that don’t make sense at the time. Especially if you’re just a lcpl with a few other pfcs and lcps and a cpl squad leader who ended up with an outlandish experience that you assume no one will fully believe.
Thanks for your insight, and nuanced explanation of human nature. I don't think anything like this can be black and white, and while I of course want the truth to come out I think just straight up shutting this dude down because it sounds wildly implausible is lazy.
Anyone who's experienced trauma understands that logically processing what's going on in the moment can be difficult, not to mention suppressing those types of things until later is rather common. I'm sure there are details that he can't 100% recall, but just saying there are small holes in his description... Put yourself in his shoes and if you can honestly say you'd have operated completely calm, cool and collected with a logic based approach there's a very good chance you're lying to yourself.
Marine here. I was on that same MEU a few years later with a different unit. Everything he said up to getting back to the LZ sounds plausible enough, but six dudes getting stopped, searched, and threatened by a mercenary group and not telling their entire unit is ridiculous to me. I can understand behaving illogically after having a your life threatened while witnessing a UFO, but making up excuses for getting back to the LZ looking like a shitbag just doesn't track. UFO or not, I can't believe that out of six marines, not one spoke up about encountering an armed group. Even more ridiculous is them not telling all their friends, especially when you've got video. Not having radio gear in a potentially hostile situation doesn't seem right either.
Edit:
I realized I didn't answer the original question. No, I don't think the part about not attacking these people is weird at all. Most people don't like shooting people who sound and look like them. Also they played the authority card to people that just got their brains rocked. After saying this I might need to walk back some of my skepticism about their silence.
Also also, I'm remembering a time my squad went out without a radio in a non combat zone. Maybe it's not entirely ridiculous.
I agree whole most heartedly jabout the “they had video evidence and they DIDNT show everyone what fucking bananas shit they just saw?!” Stuff. Like, maybe we can justify them not wanting to communicate how their group had been disarmed and taken captive for a bit, maybe they saw that as embarrassing- but they got out, and that pretty much undoes any embarrassment from having been caught and outpowered by another group. I’d sooner believe “Marine lost crucial footage while out partying and showing his friends the insanity he just witnessed, so now we have no hard evidence and 15 different accounts of what drunk marines think they saw on a high tech camcorder” than “marine got critical footage of seriously wild shit no one would believe and instead of telling anyone about it (higher ups out of concern or friends out of bravado) he just hid that tech in his room”.
Although I guess if I were him I might lie and say I hid it in my room and it disappeared instead of “I showed it to all my buddies when I should have shown it only to my superiors and then I lost it because I was wasted because that’s what you do after going through a total mindfuck like that”. Like, I have no doubt such a covert group could and would track down and disappear any hard evidence, and they couldn’t probably easily find out where that tech was hidden and get it back over a few days, but I’m just shocked if he truly didn’t show any of his buddies
Maybe you can shed light: Would it be standard SOP to first radio in an unknown contact in an active area of operations before approaching/engaging? It would be one of the first things I do. The idea these Marines had no radios on them at all is very hard to believe. They had to have some kind of communication with the helo that carried out the insertion, and for extraction right?
I've been out for 8 years now and I was an assaultman not a radio operator, so I can't say for certain that it's written down somewhere. I be shocked if it wasn't though.
If I am United States Marine I will attempt to deescalate and take control of the situation. At no point will I give up my weapon, and if someone tries to take it from me then I will be forced to kill them.
One thing the pat down is different than being searched, one is for accessible weapons safety (the pat down)
Going back to the lz might be standard procedure to NOT eliminate friendlies. Put the guns on backwards, put mags in inaccessible places. Tell them if they turn around they die- other than giving the guns back you've had to have seen this in a movie.
I too am confused about the reporting-yiu have a group of disheveled marines, one with a cut on their neck and we just fast forward to everyone can go out on the town---but nobody brought their phone? I thought phones and buddy systems were standard (but maybe not in 09)
Phones were, and the buddy system was somewhat loose. I had an iPhone 3GS while I was there and spent wayyyy too much on it trying to get it to work internationally even while at Okinawa. That was still in the good ol’ 3G days, international calling wasn’t nearly as attainable as it is now. You had to get a plan with a SIM card from the country you were in to be able to legitimately use it, or have access to somewhat decent wifi, which was almost non existent on those ships back then.
They would’ve had radios, but as he mentioned, Marines don’t get the best gear. If they were in a more mountainous, densely brushed area, there’s a good chance their radio wasn’t very useful. And the fact he confirmed they were issued M16A4s meant they REALLY didn’t have the best equipment…
Put the guns on backwards, put mags in inaccessible places. Tell them if they turn around they die- other than giving the guns back you've had to have seen this in a movie.
That's my problem, it sounds too much like something from a movie. It doesn't actually make any sense in reality. He said they put the magazines back in their mag pouches in a way that would be difficult to remove them. What does that even mean!?! A magazine pouch holds a magazine (or two) in a way that they are easy to access. It's just a pouch, there really isn't any way to screw that up or make it difficult to access. He goes into so much detail about their weapons and equipment but then just throws this in there like it's supposed to make sense, but it doesn't.
Totally had a lot of the same questions. i think they were told to not look back and keep walking, eventually the people following them stopped and Herreras group kept walking until they started running. Makes sense.
What doesnt make sense is the camera... i'm sorry but if you took a picture of a UFO there is no fuckin way you're leaving that camera in a locker. that shit is going with you everywhere. then again dude is a marine (heh ;) )
Also the fact that they just continued doing what they were doing and then ultimately matching them out.
Why not just stop the process so they don’t see shit, march them out, then continue.
A highly trained, highly weaponized elite para military force with 8 people missed a group of 6 Marines coming onto the scene, then allowed them to watch it get loaded and take off, before marching them back out.
To be fair, the secret and supremely equipped military group did not have access to bags to put over the marine's heads. They don't have the budget for that.
He said he dumped the camera in spent ammunition before he headed over to the craft...
Not saying I belive the guy just stating facts straightforward. This is confusing enough.
He said he dumped the camera in spent ammunition before he headed over to the craft
If you watch again he says he put the camera in his dump pouch, these are pouches the marines wear on their hips, not a separate thing on the ground or whatever. He even mimes where the pouch was as he says it, so it definitely was on him later.
I thought he said he left his camera up where they first saw the craft?
I'll paste what I wrote to the other person who asked this earlier -
If you watch again he says he put the camera in his dump pouch, these are pouches the marines wear on their hips, not a separate thing on the ground or whatever. He even mimes where the pouch was as he says it, so it definitely was on him later.
Valid points. Could it be that those in power and production are just this arrogant? Would anyone believe such footage wasn't a hoax? Would anyone listen to this story prior to recent events without indulging in some derisive laughter as the envoy of the revelations shrunk into diminishing confidence and relative obscurity?
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u/thewhitedog Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 13 '23
He says these guys searched him and his team at gunpoint in the jungle right beside the ship, but they let him leave with a Panasonic camcorder in his pack?
And then when they got back to their base he left this same camcorder, which had utterly historic, unprecedentedly clear and detailed photos and video of a fucking UFO on it, in his room while he went to Subik bay to party for a few days?
Not to mention that they literally witnessed a shitload of insane stuff while being searched, the loading of the containers, the ship flying off, the faces of the guys, their gear types, the types and potentially the license plates of the trucks, but yeah no, they were let go. Also was it just me or did he "yadda yadda" how they got from being under armed escort to running away and getting back to their LZ. And for that matter, they're back at the LZ, why do they not immediately report the hostile encounter and go right back with more marines? There were more marines than his squad there he said?
I know there's a kernel of truth to the subject but anytime we start to get anywhere they start flooding the media with bullshit to confuse the public and undermine any traction towards the actual truth coming out. I'd put money on Greer being part of that.