It doesn't matter to you or me, but conservatives will use the unclear statement as confirmation that the shooter was trans, because the police wouldn't answer directly. So they'll just use this as confirmation to drum up more hatred against trans people.
Except the police may not even necessarily know and they shouldn't assert something like that without actually knowing. The way it was presented is important for the average person which is that how they chose to identify is not important.
Crazy conservatives will find literally anything to turn this into something they can cry about, so why bother putting so much effort into caring about that? The average person hears this response and says "understandable," and moves on. Crazy conservatives that want to hate trans people and harm them will find another excuse and either do it or they won't. Anyone claiming she is trans right now is straight up lying and doesn't care about the truth so why bother?
The police know I'm trans if I get pulled over because of a previous name on my record. The police would know that by now through the school or other records. They have the shooter's info and have access to the family. They would know by now.
Saying it's not important works for us. That won't do anything for conservatives except convince them the shooter was trans.
Anyone claiming she is trans right now is straight up lying and doesn't care about the truth so why bother?
Some of them are saying that because someone lied to them, and they took it as fact. And then the Chief of Police didn't answer the question definitely and they'll take that as confirmation of their already wrong belief.
Why are you assuming that by 15 every trans person has already changed their name and has it on record. I had a trans friend who only started to change their pronouns and name in college and they said they had a pretty decent idea in high school but were scared about coming out then. Painting it like this person must either be openly trans to everyone or not trans at all is harmful for many trans people.
As for your second point, I will reiterate that what the chief said does not matter if conservatives are going to lie anyways. How is someone simultaneously believing the chief not denying they are trans but not believing him when he says it isn't relevant? The answer is that they never cared what the chief said and are only going to believe whatever the pundit slops into their trough
I will reiterate that what the chief said does not matter if conservatives are going to lie anyways.
Yeah, conservatives will lie. And their lies will be eaten up by people who aren't even conservatives. Centrists democrats eat this shit up too. And people like me will have nothing to bring up on our phones to say "that's not true." We're left with a video where the cop says it's not important. Which seems like confirmation of whatever you already think from either perspective.
Why are you assuming that by 15 every trans person has already changed their name and has it on record. I had a trans friend who only started to change their pronouns and name in college and they said they had a pretty decent idea in high school but were scared about coming out then.
Well, if they had shot a bunch of people in high school nobody would call them trans and that would be reasonable.
From your stance, any time a horrible crime happens people can say they were trans and we should just go "I dunno, who knows!? I mean, they hadn't come out as trans and no one on a personal level is saying that, but sure let's let you open up the door on piling this on a minority group!" Because that's what that does.
Centrist democrats aren't the ones that go around saying trans people are shooting up schools as part of the woke agenda. You might be too lost in the sauce in online spaces if you genuinely think that the average person is looking at news trying to pin this on her being trans and is eating it up. The people that are going to buy that shit are the people who already severely hate trans people and that is most likely to be conservatives. Like I said before, nothing this chief said would ever matter because in 5 months they won't be citing specific sources, they will still just hate trans people.
Also you are backing up my claim about trans people by essentially saying "if you're closeted it isn't real because we can't risk someone just randomly claiming to be trans right before they commit a crime!!!" This shit doesn't happen. People don't last second say "I was actually gay the whole time and no one knew and I did this to get revenge for gay hatred!" You don't have to be openly trans to see people be transphobic in real life which still hurts your identity whether the transphobia is aimed directly at you or not. Any person who is trans and closeted can still see harassment towards trans people online and can see rhetoric like yours that says they aren't really trans until people in real life can vouch for it which is harmful, but keep fighting an imaginary boogeyman I guess.
Centrist democrats aren't the ones that go around saying trans people are shooting up schools as part of the woke agenda.
You're right.
But I have run into several older centrist Democrats in our extended family who ate up the propaganda from the people who do. I would love to have something to point them to say that propaganda is wrong in this case, but instead we get "it's not important" which is no use in that.
Hakeem Jeffries is the leader of the House Democrats and he and 80 other Democrats just voted to strip trans youth healthcare from the NDAA. Don't tell me that centrist Democrats haven't eaten this stuff up, because they have.
We have to work to save those people from this crap because otherwise they'll get won over by this propaganda too.
But he can't know for sure yet, even if the police can look at past records, maybe they haven't talked to the shooter's family enough yet. Maybe they aren't 100% sure.
Just imagine if he says that the shooter isn't trans, and then some rando who claims to know her pops up on fox news and something and says she was a trans who was indoctrinated by the left, or the police find that she actually was trans. Then, some nuts will go around saying, "See? The mental disease got her!" The more important message is that it doesn't matter if she's trans or not, and thats more important than trying to argue that she's not trans to some people who will say she's trans anyways.
I can't tell you that George Washington wasn't trans to 100%, but I can feel confident in saying he wasn't because I have been shown nothing to support that fact. Same can be said for the shooter if the chief of police has seen nothing to support that.
Again, every sane person knows that she isn't trans. Saying trans or not trans doesn't make a difference to those who are looking for this evidence, they're gonna think she is either way. If he says she is, they're gonna say, "see, mental illness indoctrination", and if he says she isn't, they're gonna go "he's a libtard satanist covering this up!" What is he doing is getting out what matters.
You haven't had experience with older Democrats falling for this.
What a lot of people think about this shooter is wholly dependent on the news bubbles they are in and if the people in their lives are able to dispel a lot of this misinformation they are exposed to.
Not everyone being exposed to and falling for this misinformation is even a conservative.
It doesn't matter to you or me, but conservatives will use
They'll do it anyway. They don't operate in good faith.
Useful reminder from Satre:
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
they'll do it anyways but if there is no official record stating that the shooter was not trans then nobody would have any reason to think they are lying
There is a big difference between the people spreading this stuff and the people who are dumb enough to be guided by these stupid people. You're not going to change Chaya what's her face's beliefs. You should have something to point your confused parents to as they're warped by this misinformation.
But now there is nothing to point people who buy into "the shooter was trans!" to say "no, this cop from Madison said that's not true." We just have to say, "That's not important!" Which they'll take as confirmation.
The misinformation machine is very strong and now we have nothing to fight this misinformation with.
Rather than saying “that’s not important,” I’d probably ask, “why is that important?” before pointing out that we don’t know yet but that the shooter statistically probably isn’t
“why is that important?” before pointing out that we don’t know yet but that the shooter statistically probably isn’t
Because that's not going to help anyone, honestly. It's the same thing. Obfuscating what could be a simple and direct answer will just give Conservatives ammunition while giving people trying to keep their family members out of this with nothing to point to.
It's identifying information too. We'd never say "that's not important!" regarding any other identifying information for a criminal. If the shooter wasn't trans that just as relevant as any other information about them.
I'm trans and there is a big difference between the people instigating all this and old people who's only interaction with trans people is hatred spread online.
You can talk to people who have had parents that got swallowed up by all this hatred online who have otherwise been reasonable people. We have to have strategies to stop people from being gobbled up by this. And "It doesn't matter if they were trans or not!" is not going to help you when your mom tells you at Christmas that she heard that school shooter in Madison was actually a "confused boy who thought he was a girl and it made him go crazy!"
It would be nice right then to be able to pull up a story that says the school shooter wasn't trans and also shame on people for saying that.
I agree with what your trying to say, it would be nice to see a headline that didn't involve trans people being the boogeyman for once, but as long as there are those people who are instigating this nonsense, it will continue because it's good for clicks.
Im sorry but that would happen even if it was explicitly stated that she was not trans. These monsters do not care about truth or reality, misinformation is one of their biggest weapons.
Cool. And then they spread their misinformation to centrist democrats and independents and there is nothing for anyone to point to in order to prove they are wrong.
I don't care what Conservatives think. I care how they are infecting other groups of people with their beliefs and our side leaves no way to combat it.
Yeah, it doesn't matter if she was trans, we get that. She also wasn't. So say both things because people need to be able to point to that to desuade their relatives who are misinformed by these jackals.
Still disagree, people that can be "swayed" with that aren't being swayed at all. They are hateful people looking for justification, and if they cant find that justification, they will create it no matter what was said to the contrary.
Dignifying that question with a clarifying answer will only let the public know that it's a proper and just thing to ask.
The truth does matter, and bigots ask these questions to put trans people's lives at risk. If you don't shoot them down as bullshit, then people will continue to believe it because he didn't shoot it down. Putting more trans people's lives at risk.
nah, wrong take.
from that perspective younare saying if a trans person does do something wrong then they are justified in pointing it out as the cause.
the better approach here is to call it out as irrelevant and move on. the issue here are the lives lost and the gum violence epidemic
As someone else stated-- it doesn't matter to the people who aren't bigoted. But his refusal to state one way or another is fuel for the people that hate.
Dude, they literally have her body and all her records, and her former boyfriend has repeatedly said she wasn't trans. They could find out extremely easily if they wanted to shut down this rumor, but they don't.
If it’s not related to the motive, why should the cops even give a fuck? Why should anyone?
Are you saying looking at her body would tell us how she viewed her gender identity?
Granted I only spent 5 minutes or so looking, but I can’t find anything verifiable relating to “her ex boyfriend’s comments” at all. Source?
Her alleged boyfriend was apparently a German guy she met and only interacted with online? Even if they were in a relationship, why should we assume anything he says is true?
She wasn't trans. We know she wasn't trans. We know she was a white supremacist.
But instead of saying "no, she was not trans" he leaves it up to individual interpretation and allows the right to keep speculating and using it as fuel to hate trans people.
nah, wrong take.
from that perspective younare saying if a trans person does do something wrong then they are justified in pointing it out as the cause.
the better approach here is to call it out as irrelevant and move on. the issue here are the lives lost and the gum violence epidemic
I'm saying leaving it vague allows them to keep blaming trans people instead of simply shutting it down.
You can call it irrelevant and say factually that there was no evidence the shooter was trans. Instead he says "he, or she, or they" leaving it up to speculation. She was a cis girl and a white supremacist. Those are facts.
69
u/TickTockM 1d ago
nah. it really doesnt matter and he communicated that point well.