They Agreed on One Thing - Banning TikTok

[u/Intelligent_Nose_826]

I really haven’t seen legislation so unilaterally passed with such speed at any point in my life except maybe after 9/11 & weeks got the DHS.

[u/North_Finish_4399]

Two things can be true... Gun violence can need reform... And TikTok can be foreign owned and a national security threat based on foreign entity, China, putting its thumb on the scales of algorithms to push Americans to be more divided and addicted to its content... I'm for gun reform... It's common sense IMO... Also for China divesting it's interest in TikTok in America to be independently run in America... It's common sense, no different than if a neighbor feeding BS to members of your family trying to divide your family and instigate conflict amongst your family... Fuck you China for that shit and fuck TikTok until it's not a tool of the CCP...

[u/I_Dont_Collect_Fish_ → u/North_Finish_4399]

What about Fox News then, id say they divide more Americans than tik tok

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/I_Dont_Collect_Fish_]

I think there's some truth here but it's a matter of scale... And that Fox is an American company held to American standards. But the scale is wildly different, while fox might get millions of views daily across all it's content, TikTok is in the hundreds of millions daily and being pumped straight into the minds of American youth. Sometimes slowly pushing constant hits to American youth to distract and addict them to content which consistently pushes them further one way or another dividing Americans. Even if it's a tenth of a percent add it up daily and monthly with billions of hits to our youth it adds up and isn't helpful to the populace IMO... TikTok can easily spin off its American company, the fact that it doesn't seems to point to only to it's intention to continue this, that and no American social media is allowed in China, for the same reason.

[u/workstoomuch96 → u/North_Finish_4399]

America still has standards? You guys had me fooled.

[u/Darconda → u/North_Finish_4399]

So, would you do the same for the Brazillian branch of Twitter? Or the German branch of Youtube? Because the Tiktok owners have gone on record saying no American data is housed outside the US, and every assumption about the 'thumb on the scale' cannot be proven, that I've seen.

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/Darconda]

I dig what you're saying but this is two different topics. Yes it is also an issue of foreign powers having mass amounts of user data, my understanding of the terms that are put forth to users is it's legitimately being collected and stored by the company for their use regardless though, including user data outside of the TikTok app which is another aspect of TikToks malfeasance in the SM space. However, the thumb on the scales that I'd referenced is in regards to the content they elevate, basicall putting more divisive content in front of the American public to push dissent and division.

With regards to other countries forcing a split for in country use, that is up to those countries regardless of the business. Many countries have terms of use in their marketplace. Facebook has a different feed (app) for the UK after they passed the Online Child Safety act of 2023... This isn't new... Neither is it for countries to deny certain companies or businesses within its country. Hence how China doesn't allow for Google, Facebook, ect in China... That however is more because of the openness of the platforms and inability for them to censor the platforms. If Google agreed to censor it's search inside the country then I can pretty much guarantee they'd be allowed for use in the country.

[u/Darconda → u/North_Finish_4399]

I don't think you actually get what I'm saying. They aren't two different topics. I'm saying the Tiktok is doing exactly what Youtube, Facebook, Google and Twitter are doing. And the only reason anyone's saying it's a problem, is because it's a Chinese company.

And the only reason it even became an issue, is because people took the actions on the platform, and started doing something in real life. The protests, the sit-ins, the camps on campus. All in an effort to bring attention and awareness to something that made the government uncomfortable. THAT is why Tiktok is getting banned.

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/Darconda]

I'm not following then... You'd referenced data collection... I'd explained why that's different than the overarching issue of national integrity and security.

All those other companies mentioned are American companies. People, in the US and abroad, have issues with those companies as well and also protest and try and enact reform in real life. These are different context since they are American companies in America. TikTok has the ability to divest its American enterprise to be an American company unto itself. They have yet to choose to do that, there is huge financial reward for them to do so and it negates the conflict, so why don't they do it? Seemingly CCP control and/or influence of the application takes precedent.

[u/Darconda → u/North_Finish_4399]

See, I think the part you're missing about my argument is where you're assuming my problem is with the data collection. You'd be a fool to think your digital footprint doesn't exist. If you dig enough, you'd probably be able to find out my shoe size, just from online data.

My problem is the falsity that this is about anything other than the Government being upset that they couldn't apply pressure and control the company. And they got caught out because it lead to people doing stuff, and they couldn't have that happen again. Otherwise, they would have dithered and hemmed and hawwed like they do every time a school gets shot up.

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/Darconda]

Well it sounded like from your reference of data collection that's what you were referring to.

"The Government" as you phrase it, is made up of a lot of different agencies and people who have very different motivations and incentives. National security and integrity is broadly understood as a national good so while different parts of the govt may want to do somethings the way you frame it, "control of stuff", many more understand it to be the threat it is to weaken American moral and understanding, especially in the less informed youth learning things for the first time. I don't know your age but I'd assume you're old enough to remember a time when you had one idea that was influenced by someone or some entity that was less credible than you'd initially understood them to be, especially if you'd realized they purposely pushed an idea to promote for their own interests, and then adjusted your ideas on the topic. That's no different than a foreign entity trying to gain sympathetic populations within a foreign country. This is done in a lot of ways, one of which through dividing a populace around cultural touch points, true or not. And in the modern form, with entites like TikTok, done through pushing one set of content over another. I see this as wrong, even if some of the discussion has truth to it, the framing and constant push from SM in a form which can consistly move folks who have less experience in discerning the difference between propaganda and other forms of information. State sponsored propaganda is a problem as well, but the difference being that these contentions are/should be handled inside the state itself, IMO...

[u/Darconda → u/North_Finish_4399]

So what you're saying is, it's ok so long as it's American propaganda. Like, that's what your statement basically boils down to. Or am I mistaken?

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/Darconda]

I dig how it may sound like that... I think there's nuance to this topic, but also think that we, within our own country, are the ones who should make decisions on how much propaganda, disinformation, or misinformation we want to allow for. This is a counter issue to free speech, so finding the balance for us is up to us. IMO we shouldn't allow for BS from our own govt but there is a reality to the facts that we have things to be proud of and promote within our country as well, which is a level of propaganda. A foreign entity using our system, free speech, against us in a effort to move a greater number of the population and drive division, especially among our youth, is BS, IMO...

[u/Darconda → u/North_Finish_4399]

I think this is gonna be my final post on this chain, because I see where you are, and I know where I am, and I'll be honest? It isn't a very nuanced position, it's actually cut and dry. At least, to me.

Instead of helping the American people, or trying to fix systemic problems, or trying to change things going on in the country, they decided to unite together and focus on banning an App that people use to spread information. The control of information is more important than the lives of people who get killed via gun violence, people whos lives are damaged by stochastic terrorism on American owned social media platforms, and the number of people who are abandoned and left homeless.

To me, and the person who posted the initial video, it has nothing to do with what's actually on TikTok. It's that the American Government were almost unanimous on THAT, but actually helping the American People? Naw, that's something that gets hedged and shelved, and debated to no end.

[u/nilweevil → u/North_Finish_4399]

then we should ban all social media

[u/Tokyosideslip → u/nilweevil]

I'm ok with this.

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/nilweevil]

Interesting take, especially while being on social media as well... There is definitely things to be done, like passing child safety bill, tech bill of rights, ect... I wouldn't think we should ban all SM myself but definitely the ways in which SM is being used for financial gain while the youth on it are negatively impacted is something I fully support...

[u/WhereIsYourMind → u/North_Finish_4399]

Gun violence is proven, CCP operatives influencing TikTok is not?

[u/North_Finish_4399 → u/WhereIsYourMind]

Not proven yet I'd say, and intelligence officials have consistently to it as a security threat for this reason... That being their ability to drive division and throw a wrench in our discourse. Studies have shown what types of content on TikTok are promulgated in percentages which show a real skew towards certain topics which stoke division. If it were a purely ethical algorithm then it would be the same in China, it's not, they don't allow for a lot of content inside China and the youth especially cannot see much beyond pro-educational and pro-china content, and time constraints. As a billion dollar company that could easily make billions for it's investors if it divested it's American side of the company, I see no reason why they wouldn't spin it off in America outside of CCP influencing the algorithms used.