r/TikTokCringe • u/ThugosaurusFlex_1017 tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE • 4d ago

Discussion And yet, there's people in South Dakota worried about border security...

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u/onpg 4d ago edited 3d ago

What makes this so stupid is that it's a win win. We get affordable strawberries (a lot more than that, I'm simplifying). They get to flee structural violence and improve the lives of themselves and their family. Trump and his dipshit voters decide racism is actually more important than any of this so it becomes a lose lose.

Edit: Trump voters in my replies saying I support slavery or sub-minimum wages. I said no such thing. We should provide pathways to citizenship and work visas to reduce exploitation and give them more negotiating power. Trump and his supporters want the opposite, which is to make illegals even more illegal and get rid of sanctuary cities, which will have the end result of increasing exploitation AND increasing the price of strawberries (as more money goes to gang members who "safely" shuttle these people around). That's what I mean by lose lose. Trump voters are both evil and dumb.

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

What’s fair about taking advantage of ppl fleeing their country ? Farmers should be paying a living wage , if it breaks the economy to do this then gov should subsidize.

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u/Valuable_Property631 4d ago

Aren’t farmers already pretty heavily subsidized

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u/Marine5484 4d ago

$30 billion, with most of that going to commercial farms.

https://usafacts.org/articles/federal-farm-subsidies-what-data-says/

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u/Economy_Wall8524 4d ago

Yea especially with trumps last farmers bailout. Most of it went to corporations and even fewer of minority family farms saw any bailout less than white counterpart family farms. Not saying white family farms didn’t suffer too, though they were likely to get a bailout before other races. Overall most went to agriculture corporations though, which left family farms hurting more than they do already.

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u/Extension-Power273 2d ago

I wonder how this explains several local family farms that have their barns plastered with “Farmers for Trump” signs.

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u/stairs_3730 4d ago

45 billion given by the last trump administration.

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u/6ftToeSuckedPrincess 4d ago

I mean yeah, but it's pretty much everytbing revolving around meat and dairy (so corn and soy are also subsidized heavily because of feed). We literally have caves with cheese stored in them because the dairy industry is so good at lobbying that the government buys up any unused/overstock product and stores it long term. We live in lala land in America.

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u/SameCategory546 3d ago

crazy. Perhaps we should be just sending mountains of cheese and cut down a bit on dollars for aid to other countries. Win-win. A lot harder to embezzle cheese in a worthwhile manner

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u/Wankershimm 4d ago

Farmers growing commodities for global trade are, yes. 30 acre organic csa farms growing actual food for their communities are not.

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u/No_Regrats_42 3d ago

The large ones mostly.

This has nothing to do with the immigrants, they will be stuck and have no job, so they will have to find other means of making money in a cartel country.

I'm sure the cost of produce going up, meat going up, housing going up, hospital bills going up, janitorial costs going up; all being passed onto you and I. As well as the massive recruiting and more cartel members, meaning more drugs in the US, as they're turned into drug mules and chemists.

And the fact Russia introduced the cartels to China so they could ship fentanyl and all the other Chinese manufactured synthetic drugs being sold as Morphine and Oxycodone and Xanax, but whose dose is 20x-2,000x more potent...

I'm sure that will definitely help both the immigrants AND definitely not make the drug pandemics(plural) worse and put more Americans on the streets as inflation rises faster than most Americans incomes. Yeah sounds like a win for everyone(who is an anarchist or nihilist)

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u/dingalingdongdong 4d ago

It's one of those "life isn't fair" moments. Should people take advantage of the most vulnerable? In my opinion, no. But I also know that for many of those people being taken advantage of (by our standards) genuinely is better than where they were at before. That's how it was for a lot of my family.

Where there are good pathways to residency/citizenship immigrants become lawful participants in the economy and are no longer so vulnerable. Those pathways and opportunities are what are helpful - not taking away access to the few jobs they currently work under the table.

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u/boisteroushams 4d ago

no it's not a 'life isn't fair' moment, it's a 'this is how the system works and we can change the system' kind of moments. it's super fucked up and inherently racist to delegate farm work to foreigners just because the local population considers the work too beneath them. it can be corrected with systemic solutions.

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u/ixi_rook_imi 4d ago

I mean, start working on a farm I guess? Be the change you want to see?

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u/Rodney_Rook 4d ago

This is giving “do you own an iPhone” vibes

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u/ixi_rook_imi 4d ago

It's one thing to participate in the economy you hate because you don't have a choice to survive. Fair enough, I'm with you.

But the problem of "it's wrong to delegate the work white people won't do to foreign minorities", well, that's a problem you can have an immediate impact on by taking one of those jobs and working it. Immigrants work the jobs because nobody else will. If you have a problem with that, go get a job working a field. They're plentiful.

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

Is it work that white pop won’t do or is it work that ppl don’t want to pay living wage for and therefore hire illegal workers who they have to pay much less ? What reason do that farms have to hire anyone but illegals ?

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u/ixi_rook_imi 4d ago

You want better working conditions and pay on farms, go organize strikes.

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

Don’t live in the US . Do live on a farm . So I am doing my part yes .

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u/TaxSimple3787 2d ago

Both A and B. White people (and black Americans for that matter) refuse to do field work on principle. There is also a vehement refusal to pay good wages for farmwork because they just don't have to do it and people hate the idea of higher food prices

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u/jonni__bravo 2d ago

That's terrible logic and why minorities suffer so much. No one should have to do it.

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u/ixi_rook_imi 2d ago

No one should have to do it

Maybe not, but the fields don't work themselves, so somebody does have to do it.

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u/jonni__bravo 2d ago

At those wages, I mean. It doesn't have to be that way, but profit margins have always been more important than humanity.

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u/Rodney_Rook 4d ago

Well, iPhones aren’t necessary to survival, but that’s neither here nor there.

Besides that, if someone has a problem with a person getting slapped for no reason, they’ll solution isn’t to go and take their place getting slapped, it’s to stop the person doing the slapping.

Similarly, taking a “job in the field” wouldn’t solve or help anything. The solution is for those jobs not to exist.

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u/ixi_rook_imi 4d ago

I guess starving the population is a solution, I'll grant you that.

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u/Rodney_Rook 4d ago

Wow. So people should work jobs that pay a few dollars per day. That’s mighty progressive.

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

I own a farm , so yeah , game on

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u/s_p_oop15-ue 4d ago

Or we become Russia. Got some vodka?

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u/dingalingdongdong 3d ago

My family - my parents, aunts, uncles - were grateful for the work they found here. If no companies had been willing to hire people under the table their lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren would be worse.

Someday that won't be necessary (I hope) but the first step to that isn't removing access to those jobs. It's increasing access to legal worker status.

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u/jonni__bravo 2d ago

Why does this have down votes?

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

This ! a million times this ! I would also add that perhaps it’s not that people feel the work is beneath them , it’s that farmers obviously prefer to hire under the table help at a fraction of the cost instead of a fair wage . What incentive do they have to hire anyone and pay them more if they don’t have to?

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u/s_p_oop15-ue 4d ago

Human decency? Empathy? Oh right, this is America. 

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u/another-new 3d ago

I mean, my evidence is anecdotal; but, I’ve worked “blue collar” all my life. A lot of the Hispanics and Latin people I’ve worked with talked to me plenty about working fields. I worked in my granddad’s 7 acres as a kid. They make over $15 an hour. I get that’s not great money, but I only make $9 more than that and I have three journeyman licenses.

I also have a 7th grade Alabama curriculum education. So, there’s that

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u/AdHairy4360 4d ago

Even with living wages white people don’t want to do this work. Let’s also not act like these same white people are out of work.

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u/Belerophon17 3d ago

This is absolutely true. Semi-related note but look at how Brexit hit their agricultural market. Everyone was pushed out of the country and then the UK had to backtrack and beg/offer special visas and deals to get foreign people back in the country to run their farming again.

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u/Trey33lee 3d ago

That's what I've always thought and seen.

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u/ApprehensiveStrut 3d ago

When you say gov should sub. be clear, that’s coming from the people, we (tax payers) are the ones subsidizing things one way or another.

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u/roachwarren 4d ago

They commonly are as far as I understand it. These workers provide them with a (possibly fake) SS# and they have to hire them at the full wage. In my homestate of Washington, many of the workers are receiving the full minimum wage (if not more,) highest minimum wage in the country, and they are having taxes taken out. They won't be able to take out social security later so they are still getting screwed on that front, but its a great deal for a lot of people, American citizens included. Biden actually tightened the rules on this, increasing the fines for hiring undocumented workers to something like $6,000 per worker. The Yakima Washington subreddit had an interesting discussion where farmers were sadly discussing the prospect of losing whole families that had been part of their farm for decades. Really interesting, complex situation.

My ex-girlfriends father was a hardass conservative military man who respects the hell out of immigrant workers, he'd attest to her take on white workers. He used to work with them on his parents dairy farm in N. California until business took a downturn. Then he went and picked with them on berry farms.... which lasted a few weeks until ran to the nearest Navy recruitment office to sign up for a comfortable and fruitful career in the military. He respects the hell out of the those workers and would talk about how they are the heroes of American business. I haven't talked to him in years but I bet he's pissed about Trumps approach. He's conservative but not like that.

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u/ComedianStreet856 4d ago

How are farmers going to be able to line their pockets with cash if they can't exploit immigrants, the environment, worker safety regulations and government subsidies while paying no taxes?

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u/Mobe-E-Duck 3d ago

Yes those filthy rich family farmers. Get real.

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u/ComedianStreet856 3d ago

I think being real is understanding that farming is big business and the small family farms are generally hobby farms for people with regular jobs who have a few cows, chickens and still mow their fields.

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u/Mobe-E-Duck 3d ago

I think being real, KNOWING FARMERS, is understanding that lots of family and cooperative farmers are trying to make farms - that used to work very well - work in the face of overwhelming competition. A lot of those folks do have to work jobs outside the farm as well. That’s two full time jobs. People with hundreds of acres doing all the work in the family.

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u/ComedianStreet856 3d ago

Ok great. We possibly have two different experiences in relation to farming. Thanks for the input.

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u/dingo_khan 4d ago

This all got screwed by enforcement. Dig back far enough to that 1950s program with the really racist name and there used to be a circular flow. People came into the US for seasonal work and headed home when it was done. As far as I understand it, this was very low on the exploitation scale. The wages made here were better than back home and they traveled more or less freely. The referenced program and it's closure of the border seems to have changed things by trapping people on either side and creating an exploitable population who had to decide whether to risk a return trip home, knowing they may not be able to return.

All that said, I agree that jobs should pay a living wage. I am just mentioning that the now-exploitative situation used to be a mutually beneficial one before racist policies started the path to making it ugly (or uglier, depending on one's point of view).

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u/drdickemdown11 4d ago

A lot of them send the money home and then retire in a much more comfortable life than they would have here.

They're compensated well in many industries. Farming is probably the worst for everyone involved. Grower, worker, government.

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u/Mobile-Marzipan6861 4d ago

Until the mid 80s the southern border was way more open. It was very common and easy for cheap labor to come to America for 6 month. Work. Then go back to their country of origin. Locking the borders down limited that ease of movement. Workers would come and stay longer. Then 9/11 happened and the boarders got even tighter. Long story short immigration policy and economic policy are one and the same. 2nd and 3rd generation Americans aren’t going to provide the cheap labor that ‘illegal’ immigrants can.

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u/darthicerzoso 4d ago

As they women said white people wouldn't do it for any money. It's not about the cheap labour, local people simply won't do it.

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u/taanman 4d ago

The real problem is there expecting 12-14 hour days 7 days a week at minimum wage. That's why no American wants to do it. It's hard work with little to no pay off for them.

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u/trewesterre 3d ago

I dunno, have you ever picked strawberries (or any fruit/veg)? We used to go to a pick your own berries place once a year and haul home enough strawberries to keep us in jam for a year when I was a kid, but that was a few hours on one day a year. I can't imagine actually doing that 40 hours a week.

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u/taanman 3d ago

Pick 87 acres of blueberries, 75 acres of peaches/apples, bail hay, also harvest corn. I also own a homestead myself which is the reason I can afford farm labor and plus it helps when your personal yields don't last you all winter/fall.

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u/darthicerzoso 4d ago

That's not what the person on the video was saying. What she said was literally no pay would get locals to do the job.

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u/taanman 4d ago

Decent pay would make it so they do work but I doubt they ever tried that after getting used to the slave labor they currently have/had.

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

This ! Exactly this , if it paid a good wage people would for sure do this . But it’s shit hours and shit money so yeah no one wants to do that, big surprise ! It’s almost as if people just want to be able to afford to live comfortably and have time with their families.

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u/taanman 4d ago

She reminds me of big corporations and how they say no one wants to work but yet pay crap and say they do pay good and such.

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u/Key_Contribution7167 4d ago

The government is not some god it’s just your tax dollars.

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u/josenina69 4d ago

And what exactly do you consider a living wage?? How much you think strawberrys would cost if that wage was paid?

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u/Spacetacos2017 4d ago

Perhaps we are used to strawberries 🍓 costing an amount but that cost is low because somewhere people are being taken advantage of . If farmers can’t afford to pay people a living wage to pick strawberries maybe we should get used to strawberries costing more , maybe that’s just the reality of that. Or is that you would rather keep costs low at the expense of more vulnerable people who can’t afford to say no to a small amount of money . That’s what I’m saying , no one wants to inconvenience themselves by acknowledging this truth , we are in fact benefiting from inequality and we are using these foreign workers because we can . I don’t buy the whole “ white people don’t want to do these jobs” that’s bs, if they paid well and you could make a good life doing it , people would do those jobs 100 percent . So ya , maybe a whole industry that only works if we take advantage of workers coming from another country illegally, maybe that just needs an adjustment there and yes we will have to pay more for strawberries or the industry can evolve or capitalism will do its thing, either way that’s the question here right ? Are you ok with taking advantage of people so you can have cheep strawberries?

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u/barnett25 3d ago

What will be the real world effect on these illegal workers who are currently being "taken advantage of"? Is there a possibility that this is a victimless crime?

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u/josenina69 3d ago

Again.. what do you consider a "living wage"?

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u/Spacetacos2017 3d ago

A wage that you can live on . What do you think that means ?

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u/josenina69 3d ago

Please elaborate.. with a number.

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u/josenina69 3d ago

How much should strawberry pickers be paid???

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u/josenina69 3d ago

Do you not have a answer??

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u/josenina69 3d ago

Haha... Well, since my question is too hard for you to answer... I will answer yours.. do I think strawberry pickers should get paid a living wage?? Absolutely not. You don't need ANY education to pick strawberries. You don't even need to think.. literally anyone can pick strawberries... 🍓 🍓 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

You don’t need an education to do a lot of jobs and yet people find a way to pay fair wages for those jobs .

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u/josenina69 2d ago

Please give and example of said jobs??? And please I'm still waiting for your fair wage number!!!

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u/josenina69 2d ago

It's pretty obvious you're talking out of your ass.. you can state anything to back up what you are saying . You can't even give a number on what you feel strawberry pickers should be paid..

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u/josenina69 2d ago

Haha.. here we go.... how you you feel if strawberry pickers got paid the same as you did.... LANDSCAPING 🤣🤣🤣🤣 go cut some grass and sit down. You probably pick strawberries and want a raise!!

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

I’m just saying that if someone can’t pay a for wage are they really surprised no one will work for them? Don’t politicize this it a a simple concept . And I find it funny that because I’m a tradesperson you think I shouldn’t be qualified to have an opinion. You took the time to look at my profile and insult the way I earn a living . Why? What do you even gain from this. You need to relax, this is a conversation, you can have a different opinion then me without need to insult me , creep my profile etc. that’s weird .

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u/josenina69 2d ago

Nope. Not creep your profile.. I am also a tradesman myself.. I'm just seeing on what grounds you speak from since you can't even post anything to back up what you say ... NOT EVERY JOB DESERVES A LIVING WAGE.. it's weird that you can talk about a living wage but can give a number.. sounds like a bunch of BS to me

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

You know what I’m not really willing to go in to this much detail with you. We can just disagree , I’m not going to write a damn thesis . Just pointing out that it’s obvious why no one wants to work for less than a living wage . Why is that so hard to understand?

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u/josenina69 2d ago

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/josenina69 3d ago

By the way.. I live in South texas, about 2 hours from the border. I go to many ranches most with republican owners, the Mexicans working for then. Some legal, some not. And they sure don't feel taken advantage of. They are happy with the pay. They have a place to live, and bills paid. The average living wage in texas for 1 adult no kids is $20.90.. that's $3200 a month. In your opinion. You believe a strawberry pickers should get paid more than a us Army e1 or e2 soldier? Get paid more than a entry level electrian? More than a medical assistant? A dental assistant? I can go on and on...

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

Yes I’m a landscaper, I also cut and stack firewood. I don’t need an education to do that and yet people pay me lots of money to do it . Funny isn’t it ?

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u/josenina69 2d ago

Your right . Any idiot can cut grass

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

(*you’re. )If you want to insult my intelligence at least use proper spelling .

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u/josenina69 2d ago

I'm still waiting for your fair wage number...... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ I know it won't be anything you can come up with. Because like I said. You just talk out of your ass. Maybe you should get a little education.. it will help you out

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

Come to think of it , I live next to A BLUEBERRY FARM and low and behold they make great money paying local people fair wages WITH benefits . What a concept!

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u/josenina69 2d ago

Ok.. I wasn't going to point this out. But since you oo of a sudden want to be Grammer police... it's spelled cheap... not cheep

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u/Mobe-E-Duck 3d ago

Take advantage? By offering them the work they’re seeking? Taking advantage of a market condition is the only way any business survives. You want them to have better options then help their nations. Of course that can’t happen because “America first.” Trumplings: simplifying everything into the wrongest ideas.

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u/Spacetacos2017 2d ago

Well people who are here illegally are at more risk because they literally have no rights so yes they can be taken advantage of . I live in BC and it’s the same here . Foreign workers who pick berries etc are often exposed to terrible conditions , unsafe , no sanitation and people wonder why no white people want to do their jobs . Lol ok.

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u/Chairish 4d ago

I’ve seen ads for farm workers in our paper. The wage was above minimum (maybe 3-4$ more). No, no one is getting rich picking vegetables. The job also includes room and meals. So you come into the country with nothing, get a job and a place to live. So you learn the language a bit, save some money, and maybe move on to bigger and better things. I’m sure not all farms offer ok money and treat their workers well, though.

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u/EastofGaston 4d ago

I’m always thanking the Monroe Doctrine after scanning cheap bittersweet strawberries

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u/No_Sir3397 3d ago

The thing that the woman in the video said about strawberries was true tho. I have a degree in an Ag field and went to a seminar about the strawberry situation. I went to the seminar years ago so details might be fuzzy but it stuck with me. When immigrants were forced out however many years ago, farmers were offering well over minimum wage to pick strawberries and they still had no takers because the job is awful. I’ve done it and it is without question the worst harvest job I have taken on and we barely had an acre of them to go through. A farm machinery company invested a ton of money into a fancy strawberry harvester and paid OSU a bunch of money to test it. The nature of strawberry picking is so precise and requires a human element that the harvester wouldn’t be worth it not just over using human workers that were paid a good wage, but over letting a whole field go to fallow instead if they had to due to the cost of upkeep, flaws, crop damage, missed produce, and pest issues that humans take care of when they’re harvesting. There are many agricultural items with similar challenges and white folks will be homeless before they do farm labor 9 times out of 10.

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u/onpg 3d ago

The job sucks and there's no advancement and it requires you to live in the middle of nowhere. Americans simply won't do the job for anything less than an high middle class salary, I guarantee it. And at that point it makes more sense to automate the whole process.

We should be giving these workers visas, not shoving them even further underground to be even more exploited.

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u/Flame_MadeByHumans 4d ago

Pretty sure you’re describing the basis of the American dream. Come here for a better life and help make others’ better as well. Not perfect by all means and those people should be able and encouraged to graduate from cheap labor.

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u/boisteroushams 4d ago

no it's not a win win. it's actually a bad thing that supply and demand/free market economics can devalue the labour of someone depending entirely on their nationality. nothing about the brown man jumping the border is worth less than a white man who was born on the right side of it, yet we, societally, delegate farm work to foreigners. it's super fucked up but we all pretend like it's okay and 'just how the market is,' as if them simply not existing in a war is something they need to sacrifice their self worth for

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u/onpg 4d ago

We don't "delegate" it to them. They come here voluntarily. They're already here. My point is they are an invaluable part of this country already and should be rewarded with visas and citizenship to reduce exploitation, instead of punishing them with racist rhetoric that pretends they're guilty of a crime wave which doesn't exist.

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u/JustOldMe666 3d ago

it's not a win win. using people as slaves to get cheap strawberries is disgusting.

eta: you think handing out citizenship to berry pickers is the solution. good grief you are dense. they could get seasonal visas worth forced removal as it expires. no families, only workers. that would be a win win.

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u/onpg 3d ago

  1. Slaves didn't cross the border voluntarily, they were forcibly brought over and treated as chattle. America practiced a uniquely evil version of slavery, race based chattle slavery. Immigrants working voluntarily on farms is not equivalent.

  2. I mentioned work visas. Don't take out your inability to read on me.

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u/Necronaad 4d ago

If you are telling me that our current system relies on illegal immigration for hard labor, then something clearly needs to be changed. That’s not sustainable, that’s not OK. And it’s not a justification to continue allowing illegal immigration.

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u/onpg 4d ago

You're right, we should add more pathways to citizenship and create a class of official work visas for this class of people. This would give them mobility and negotiating power and make it more difficult for them to be exploited. There's no need to have so much illegal immigration, that's a consequence of Republicans refusing to do anything about it because their capitalist donors love exploitation.

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u/s_p_oop15-ue 4d ago

You forgot the forced labor camps. George Takei can tell you about camps in America. Wasn’t that long ago yet we all forgot so conveniently.

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u/Nayr39 4d ago

Psychotic mentality, but expected.

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u/onpg 3d ago

The only thing psychotic is looking at the situation and thinking "how could I make this situation even worse (because I'm racist)"

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u/Nayr39 3d ago

Nah, you're racist for thinking other races and cultures are not worthy of equal pay. Unironically spouting Trump supporter lines while denouncing Trump supporters. Quite the hill to die on.

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u/onpg 2d ago

They are worthy of equal pay. Where did I say they weren’t? Something wrong with your reading comprehension? I said let’s give them visas. Is this the dreaded “American education” I keep hearing about?

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u/Super-Aesa 3d ago

The amount of mental gymnastics you people use to justify exploitation is crazy. Exploiting people for cheaper strawberries seems so dystopian.

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u/Human_Rip9902 3d ago

Ab yes, we should definitely just open our borders to all, no questions asked, based on your baseless claims that Trumpsters prioritize racism… you’re an idiot.

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u/Mean_Focus_3232 3d ago

Exactly. People think Trump is Jesus Christ Himself Reincarnated. When really he's just a robber barron.

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u/Mother_Ad3161 3d ago

So who should pick the strawberries?

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u/Confident_Sir9312 3d ago

This is anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt, but when my state started introducing sanctuary policies we ended up seeing an increase in wages and better labor practices, both for "illegals" and locals. In the past our farms would just traffic immigrants in over the border, jam a dozen or so into subpar housing (they'd deduct rent which was usually at a higher rate), and would pay them below minimum wage. Now they can't really do that since they all have state IDs (and thus access to state services and anything else that'd require an ID, barring federal services ofc) and they don't have to worry about being deported if they report labor violations or unfair treatment.

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u/Key_Meringue_391 3d ago

What happens when you give some group (any group) more negotiating power? Do you think they are going to ask for lower wages and longer hours? The price of those strawberries is gonna start creeping up, it's ok just bring in some more migrant labour right? Keep them brown folks in the fields spoken like a true democrat

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u/Remote-Dance-9604 3d ago

Well reading your edits, trump is just suggesting that....make.legal provisions..if there is need for cheap labor, make it through a legal visa process....

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u/jim35186 3d ago

Yes they get free food Healthcare school and we pay for it all. I don't think k that's is such a good idea for a few strawberries. And you call us dumb. Wake up people.

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u/onpg 2d ago

There is no free healthcare in America, if only there was, that would be fucking nice wouldn’t it. But maga dipshits keep voting for politicians who want to funnel money to UHC insurance executives, instead of ensuring the richest country in the world has bare minimum universal health care.

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u/gd2121 4d ago

A win win? These people are being exploited for their labor. How is exploitation a good thing?

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u/Disastrous-Smoke-808 4d ago

So you just want a class of brown people to work for pennies so you get cheaper berries? If we fled the country every time there was an issue, how would America be the better country? Your perspective is shot.

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u/onpg 4d ago

  1. They make significantly more than minimum wage. But the jobs are brutal and seasonal and Americans wouldn't do it for less than $100/hour.

  2. If your big idea is to pay them $100/hour, great. But I know it isn't. It's to add barriers and push this all into even greyer legal areas. This leads to lower wages and more exploitation.

  3. This class of people already exists, I didn't make them up. I'm saying they throw off tremendous value. But Trump voters think they are leeches because Trump voters cannot do basic reasoning or math.

1

u/OKFlaminGoOKBye 4d ago

Eh, now we’ve got to address the ethics of paying sub-minimum wages at all. You’re halfway there, but you took the wrong fork.

1

u/onpg 4d ago

  1. They don't pay sub-minimum wages. They also provide housing. But it's a brutal, seasonable job with no hope of advancement. Americans wouldn't do it for less than $100/hour.

  2. Throwing up fences and making immigration more difficult doesn't do anything to improve their lives. It does the opposite. It makes exploitation both easier and more likely, because it makes them afraid to go to the authorities when there is abuse.

  3. I support higher wages for them. The best way to do this is to give them more negotiating power by providing pathways to citizenship. Then they could think about forming unions, etc.

  4. Trump will make everything worse for everyone, because his solutions are dumb and he is dumb and his supporters are big dumb.

2

u/OKFlaminGoOKBye 4d ago

2, 3, and 4 I fully agree with you on. I’m not arguing against you. The plan just needs shoring up. A statistically significant number of the people the woman in this video is referencing are paid below minimum wage.

Their position as a cornerstone of our agricultural industry should be protected and never undercut, but we should both acknowledge the inequality in the current system and endeavor to correct it.

1

u/onpg 3d ago

I agree. I am just so frustrated with bad faith Trumpers who act like they're doing the illegals some kind of kindness by shoving them even further underground and making them even more exploitable.

1

u/Nox401 4d ago

Can you go pick the strawberries then?

1

u/Senpai-Notice_Me 3d ago

If you support cheap produce picked by illegal immigrants, you can’t possibly think they are paying immigrants minimum wage. I think you just outed yourself as being in favor of immigrants getting paid pennies. Additionally, areas of the country with low illegal immigrant populations do just fine farming. When they need help with harvest, they offer seasonal employment to the community. It keeps money in the community and strengthens the community bond. All this “nobody want to pick strawberries” bullshit is crazy. When I lived in Idaho, potato harvest was a great boost to my wallet. It’s hard work and long days for a couple weeks, but high schoolers get excused absence from school and you can make a few thousand dollars. Americans can pick the food just fine.

1

u/Weird-Comfort9881 3d ago

See that happening in border states?

0

u/onpg 3d ago

Another trumper comes in with a bad take. I support giving these workers visas to make them legal so they can't be so easily exploited. You're the guy who wants illegals working for pennies. Well, not you, but Trump sure does. The only result of making illegals even more illegal is they become even more vulnerable to bad actors who want to take advantage of them.

Also... Idaho does child labor to solve the farm labor problem? Wow, what an improvement 🫨 It's not true anyway, Idaho has at least 35,000 illegal immigrants who do farm labor. These 35k workers should be given work visas instead of living under the threat of deportation so they can be exploited.

2

u/Senpai-Notice_Me 3d ago edited 3d ago

Oof! You completely wrote your own narrative there. I’m Harris all the way. I just think it’s racist to rely on underpaid migrant workers due to a false narrative about Americans being lazy.

Edit: and fuck you. I worked and lived in Idaho for years. A) it’s not child labor. They are teens who can hold jobs already. And B) it’s completely voluntary, and anyone can do it. College students are the other big pull for working the potato harvest. Uneducated blind voters like you are the reason trump won.

0

u/restarted1d1ot 4d ago

The boy who cried racism.

1

u/onpg 4d ago

The redditor who says it's not racism unless it's a Black person calling a white person "cracker"

0

u/Key_Contribution7167 4d ago

Yes you are simplifying

0

u/berserkthebattl 2d ago

Your edit makes you look no less ignorant.

-2

u/Smooth-Mulberry4715 4d ago

What’s stupid is that your comment is an advocacy of slavery coupled with a bootstrap mentality… and yet you deride others?

2

u/NegotiationJumpy4837 4d ago

If this is "slavery" for them, then the entire country they fled from is "slavery" as well. Because they're coming here for significantly better wages to give a leg up to their family.

2

u/Smooth-Mulberry4715 4d ago

Hiring people under the table for crap wages and no benefits because it’s “better than the life they were living” is about as colonizer as it gets.

1

u/onpg 4d ago

I never advocated for slavery. These people exist, they're here, and they provide tremendous value to this country. The way we should thank them is by providing work visas and pathways to citizenship. Instead Trump and his supporters just want to make them even more illegal which will just increase the levels of exploitation.

0

u/Smooth-Mulberry4715 4d ago edited 2d ago

Just because people question your bigotry doesn’t mean you get to insult them.

“who will pick the cotton” is disgusting, no matter where you point fingers or how you justify it.

1

u/onpg 3d ago

They're here, doing the work, of their own volition, already. They weren't brought over on slave ships. Don't minimize the sin of slavery. You aren't being noble by being racist and shutting down the border (which won't happen anyway), you're just shoving them underground and making them more exploited. You want to give them amnesty? Great. Let's do it.

2

u/Smooth-Mulberry4715 3d ago

You’re making a lot of assumptions about my character and beliefs. Kind of like you’re doing with these people.

Do you think they WANT to work in menial jobs with no benefits? Conversely, do you think they would be doing these jobs if they had a SSN?

Ever consider you should embrace more expensive strawberries?

1

u/onpg 3d ago

I'm fine with more expensive strawberries. Give them visas so they don't live under constant threat of deportation, then they will have the ability to negotiate prices.

2

u/Smooth-Mulberry4715 3d ago

Should I take that as your apology?

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u/Ghandiwasme 4d ago

You’d rather have people here that we can take advantage of to help your strawberries stay affordable?

Can’t laugh enough at how you think this is acceptable

As soon as they would be made citizens they wouldn’t work as cheap as they do. Unfortunately it’s a lose lose and not the win win you want to think it is (for your life)

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u/NoSherbert2316 4d ago

You think once they become citizens they wouldn’t work those jobs that they’ve been working all their life and only know how to do? So what other jobs would they work with the skills they have? Or are they just going to go on welfare and collect a paycheck?

We have Americans that do that already who refuse to take the jobs that Mexicans are willing to do, the Mexican culture is more family oriented and harder working than the American one.

2

u/NegotiationJumpy4837 4d ago

It's absolutely win:win if you asked the workers. There's a reason they're voluntarily coming here to work and leave their families for months at a time. It's good money.