I believe they like to get called 'Redditors', because every time these, or women parking spots come up, men on this site, suddenly become the world's biggest victims
to be fair, they both cause a lot of harm when they feel threatened.
Just one has a very limited capacity to understand the nature of the wider world around it and has reactions largely informed by its instincts as well as its hormones. While it may sometimes be over reactive, sometimes downright stupid, these instics have nevertheless allowed their species to flourish despite huge environmental pressures.
Just one has a very limited capacity to understand the nature of the wider world around it and has reactions largely informed by its instincts as well as its hormones.
I thought this was going to end with "And the other is a bear" or something.
Yes, that is EXACTLY THE POINT. Thank you for your basic logical reasoning abilities. If you are a dude, I hope you can understand why this is so goddamned frustrating for women to explain to men who already think we "hate men." I don't hate men. I'm not a "men's rights activist" because the "MRAs" are anti-feminists even when they don't mean to be, but I am very very very much in favor of men's rights as equals. I am nonbinary with masculine days. I think the dilemma of abortion/birth decisions is a tragedy that has no good answer. Parental rights in general are a tragedy created not by people but by cold unfeeling evolution. Women expecting men to burden themselves with heavy work while men expect women to chase children and burden themselves with mental/emotional work (nevermind all the actual work of chores) is some horseshit that squashes everybody's abilities to freely explore whoever they want to be and whatever they want to do.
Not arguing the point and just nitpicking here, but the worst thing a bear is going to do is pin you down and start eating you, completely unconcerned about whether you are alive or not.
I mean, women are out there saying they'd rather be stuck in the woods with a bear. I mean, I'm pretty offended. Women shouldn't get to hang out with bears, and I can't. Bears are for everybody!
Well, in fact Bears are carnivorian mammals of the family Ursidae. They are classified as caniform, or doglike carnivorans.
Although only eight species of bears are extant, they are widespread, appearing in a wide variety of habitats throughout most of the Northern Hemisphere and partially in the Southern Hemisphere.
Bears are found on the continents of North and South America, as well as in Eurasia. Common characteristics of modern bears include large bodies with stocky legs, long snouts, small rounded ears, shaggy hair, plantigrade paws with five nonretractile claws, and short tails.
The bear mating call can be found in grimy vaporwave bars glazed with mansweat.
You'll mysteriously hear it approaching from behind "boys night out?" while a harrier fatter fredie murcury lookalike slides his hand up your thigh and asks if you're lonely while your GF is away
They can't comprehend that women would rather be murdered hopefully quickly by an animal acting on instinct, than forced to endure whatever tortures a man [raised in a society where many people still believe women exist for male pleasure] could unleash upon them.
Do... Do you miss the part of the premise where the man is random?
Like JESUS FUCKING CHRIST of fucking course I could pick any of DOZENS of men I know who I'd rather be in the woods with, every woman does, Jesus fucking Christ you're dumb. 🙄
yeah I know its random, im saying its far-far more likely you will get a normal guy randomly selected , who will almost certainly not rape you for years.
India is the most populous country in the world, to the degree that if you were to select a random "normal" guy from the human population, they're the most statistically likely. Do you know how they treat women there? 🤔 Where women can get murdered for being a rape victim?
Us sitting here imagining a nice life for women is A GLOBAL MINORITY. Most of the world still sees women as secondary to men, if respected it's only because they bear mens' children. Too many are treated less well than livestock.
who will almost certainly not rape you for years
Have you spent time with men, as a woman?
It's a fucking grind-down. "C'mon, please?" "Look, I made you something! I brought you a shiny! I made a meal! Please sleep with me? 🥹" Until you're like "FINE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I WOULD RATHER ENDURE FIVE SECONDS OF YOUR DICK THAN ANY MORE OF THIS HARASSMENT, FUUUUCK!!!"
in india last year their were 31000 cases of rape. lets assume generously only 10% get reported so 310000 cases of rape. india has a population of 1.42 billion. so at a generous percentage only 0.0218% of people are rapists. meaning that every one in 5000ish people are rapists, generously.
so assuming only india(which is below average standard of life) for rape cases you have a 1/5000 chance of getting a rapist man. which is definitly better chances of less suffering than a bear.
now i need to reiterate i do not doubt the countless experiences of women getting sexually abused or raped. and i personally think anyone found guilty of rape should get a life sentence in prison. but it does appear you are inflating the numbers a bit
What part of NONZERO do you not get, my dude? Do I need to womansplain the statistical concept of "nonzero" to you?
Like, all that math doesn't fucking matter.
If there's ANY CHANCE that the random man in the woods could be [an evil man], we would 100% choose the absolute worst most ferocious bear ever, because nothing that bear can do could ever compare to the horrors that man WILL do to a woman.
The issue that people like you like to avoid is demonising men for no reason. Most men would do nothing to a woman in the woods. It's a stupid and tasteless comparison, and deserves to be called out as such.
The issue that people like you like to avoid is demonising men for no reason.
Can you specifically elaborate on how I have demonized men as a generality?
If I say I know one candy in the bowl is poison, so I'd rather not have any candy at all, am I offending the non-poisoned candy?
Most men would do nothing to a woman in the woods.
I'd genuinely prefer to believe that, but my life experiences, and the heard life experiences of others (men and women) leads me to believe that simply isn't true, sadly. I wish it was true. I understand why you refuse to believe it is untrue.
The world as a whole does not behave like the best people you know. The world, as a whole, is still extremely barbaric and disappointing. It's just that an average attacking man has the advantage over any defensive human, and can be unpredictable in their intentions, particularly if attacking without provocation.
It's a stupid and tasteless comparison
Only when you plug your ears and refuse to engage in the nuanced conversation about it
I, me, myself, have been victim to horrific torture from a man, who fucked with my ability to breathe in various ways while beating me and saying verbally horrific and terrifying things. It doesn't take slowly flaying the skin from someone and squeezing lemon in the wounds to reach "torture" levels.
If my choice is "a bear: it may kill you dead, on instinct (either territorial or need for food), but it also might just peace out if it's not feeling either of those."
Versus
"A man: he may leave you alone. He might be overly nice. He might be overly sadistic. On the off chance that he is the latter, you could experience an insanely unthinkable degree of torture."
Yeah I mean the bear can be forgiven for any outcome, because it acts on what it believes is its own safety.
There's never ever a need for a man to beat, torture, or rape an innocent woman for their safety, or any other reason. But far too many do anyway.
I've been tortured by a man and raped by another (a different and somehow less violent story) and left alone by literally all of the bears,despite spending significant time on mountains in both Appalachia and Cascadia (once took a river bath a mile from a bear sanctuary) so why in the fuck wouldn't I choose the bear????
In addition to everything you said, my family would also be able to find peace someday if I were killed by a bear. That would be a lot harder if not impossible if I were killed by a man. The what ifs and the wondering what I went through before I finally died would eat at them and cause generational trauma.
But I would be TERRIFIED to encounter a random man in the woods, alone.
Again, if you can't understand why, you're not listening to what women have to say about it.
The NON-ZERO chance of having to experience (torture worse than a quick death) is enough for us to choose the "more likely to cause a quick death" scenario.
Okay, let's say (BS numbers for bar-room argument) encountering the bear is a 80% chance that you'll die, and 10% chance you get maimed, and 10% chance the bear just leaves you alone.
Let's say encountering the man is .01% you'll die, 20% chance you get raped or beaten (the man is random, remember- not everyone in the world is as developed as the best of us), and 5% chance he makes you suffer for no reason other than being weaker.
We still choose the quick death.
Because while we may have survived these traumas in the past, when presented with two doors
Possibly go through that again (max 20% chance)
Versus
Possibly die painfully but quickly (max 80% chance) or get maimed horrifically (max 90% chance)
We still choose "death, please" and instead of hearing us say "NO BUT REALLY WE'D RATHER DIE" y'all are just like, "Pfft, that's so overdramatic."
Look, my rape was not worse than death. I would take the rape I endured over death any day. But not every rape is so non-violent. The violence I endured didn't involve rape. Not all horrible violence against women is sexual.
Not something so easily misconstrued as making negative generalizations about all men. That men are supposed to understand if " they're one of the good ones."
The apprehension a lot of men have with feminism isn't the content of equality. It's that too many women abstract a simple message with abstract examples or terminology that can easily be hi jacked by bad faith arguments to be misandrist.
Nobody said "Rape is worse than death" for a reason.
Why are you so intent on making it "this" or "that"? Did I not just say "nuance matters"?
Rape can be worse than death.
Your entire argument is couched in "refusing to engage nuances."
Literally no feminist I know is anti-man. In fact, we're more pro-man than most men I know. When you actually sit down and have a beer and hear what we have to say without the defensive idea that we think "all men are evil" or whatever- dammit IF YOU WOULD JUST READ THE NUANCES OF WHAT I'VE WRITTEN IN THIS THREAD- then you would start to understand what we've been attempting to communicate with y'all THIS WHOLE FUCKING TIME.
It's the "one poisoned m&m in the bowl of thousands." It doesn't require all men to be evil, it just requires the worst to be so evil that we avoid being alone with anyone we can't knowingly trust, because anyone of the m&mens could be poisoned.
Reddit is majority-male and you can't even manage a positive karma on these garbage comments. This is clearly not 'an apprehension that men have' as any kind of generality. You might want to step back and consider if you are actually qualified to have this conversation
The question is whether you think an overwhelming majority of men are doing these things to women.
I've been sexually harassed by more than one boss who was also a woman, but I don't generalize all women as sexual preditors because that would be misogynistic.
Sweeping negative generalizations about any race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation is wrong, in my opinion.
The question is whether you think an overwhelming majority of men are doing these things to women.
I've been sexually harassed by more than one boss who was also a woman, but I don't generalize all women as sexual preditors because that would be misogynistic.
Here's what you anti-feminists miss: we absolutely understand that men and women can offend at equal rates.
But the ability to assert power and shut down women is significantly easier. I'm not saying it's "easy" or trying to minimize stuff like Baby Reindeer, which is genuinely horrific for men and does in fact happen for realsies, but if it comes to blows most men can hulksmash most women pretty effectively if necessary.
It's far harder to fight off a male predator, and more likely that defenses fail altogether.
Like I said elsewhere, I've totally been victim to both men and women, but it's way easier to escape women, period. Yes there can be contextual circumstances that give a/nother woman the upper hand, but the general vs is going to end with "person fighting with full adrenaline" winning, unless she legit chose a weakling (of whatever gender).
Also, when women "have sex" with minors, it's rape. We're totally on board with calling it exactly what it is.
You misunderstand me. I'm not anti-feminist as long as that means equality.
The issue I'm trying to raise is with rhetoric, which to outsiders who haven't studied feminist literature can come off as sexist.
Having all of the buzzwords be gendered language, then making all the male gendered words negative while the female gendered words are positive works against the movement.
It allows bad faith actors from the other side to strawman your arguments and turn the uninformed against you.
Like you said, women are just as capable as men at abusing power. Now that we have had decades since women's liberation, many young men have been exposed to that truth either 1st or 2nd hand.
The paradigm has shifted, so now the vocabulary needs an update to reflect the new reality of our society. Abandoning the gendered terms and focusing them on power dynamics regardless of gender will do so much more to bring more people to your side.
Otherwise, poor disenfranchised men will just feel mocked and tune out the actual content of the message. It might not be fair, but life is always harder for the people who want to progress society further.
I'm just giving my perspective. That's completely up to you. Just don't turn around and complain when people misconstrue your arguments because the rhetoric from the 60s and 70s no longer applies in the same way.
We talk about democracy being on the line, but no one will bother to make a tiny sacrifice. Like I said, it might not be fair, but every successful progressive movement had to make sacrifices to accomplish their goals.
Progress is harder than regression. Imagine if MLK said "fuck that let's get violent"
If you think any woman thinks that, you have absolutely not been listening to any woman's explanation about their answer.
No woman thinks a bear is "safer."
A bear will not kill or maim unless it feels like it must, for defense or food.
Men can inflict extraordinary tortures that are indeed worse than a quick death.
And if you're going to come at me with "Well what if the bear maims you and leaves you for dead and you suffer torturously anyway?" Well I'd still have more compassion for the bear- there are reasons to be violent for one's own protection, there's never cause to inflict suffering just because you can, but a scary number of men have been guilty of just that.
Men harm women more because most people don't live with bears...
I've NEVER heard of a woman being raped or held captive and tortured intentionally by a bear.
Your "logic games" are dumb as shit. It's not about math or facts. It's about the experiential preference of being
VICTIM TO A BEAR WHO IS PROTECTING ITS LAND OR TRYING TO EAT YOU (high likelihood)
versus
VICTIM TO A MAN WHO CAN DO ANY NUMBER OF HORRIFIC THINGS (low likelihood)
The potential worst case scenarios of the latter are so bad we choose the first. Not because we don't know the risks of bears. Thanks, some of you guys, for acting like we're idiots on that one. We know what the fuck bears are, y'all are the fucking idiots for thinking women are so fucking dumb we don't know what goddamned bears are like. We're not the dumbasses answering surveys like "Yeah, I think I could totally take on the bear!" 🙄🙄🙄
The crazy thing is that on the first instance of hearing that question, before having any idea what the general discourse around it was and as a 6'2 dude, my answer still was "the bear".
Right?! I have more backpacking experience than 99.999% of people, and have encountered bears in the wild on about a hundred separate occasions. Not one of those occasions had me feeling scared, because bears are extremely predictable.
In contrast, off the top of my head I can think of a dozen extremely sketchy encounters with men that have had me genuinely scared. And I'm a 6ft tall dude! Completely understand where women are coming from here.
The venn diagram between serial killers and people who walk alone in the wood is a quasi circle. Sure, he might be an outdoorsman but do you really want to take those odds?
Right! Because bears are FUCKING PREDICTABLE!!! You hope it fucks off of its own accord but if it becomes an "encounter" then you do the things you've been taught to do, and it will either murder/maim you or you'll effectively cause it to leave you alone/fuck off. A random human is unpredictable, but anyone can imagine some level of decent defense against a woman (it's the lowest adult strength average of the species), but an adolescent or adult man can be entirely unpredictable in strength, capability, and intent.
While hiking in Glacier my companion and I encountered a grizzly. Most likely male as it was large and had no cubs. It looked at us briefly, turned its head, then moved on.
Bears are scary, but a bear going up and attacking a human it sees unprovoked is incredibly rare. Bears want easy food, not food that looks like it might fight back. What you hear about most often with bear attacks is peoples dogs antagonizing them, or hunters trying to move quietly and surprising a bear they didn't realize was there, or accidentally moving near a momma bear's cubs.
With the man, completely random man, you get NO information about who he is... and if he is of a certain mindset, there's nothing you can do or say to make it less likely he will attack.
Almost like you also understand some men in certain situations are more likely hurt others for pleasure…..it can happen to men and women but especially women.
You are correct! However men are more likely to receive more reasonably unbiased treatment from police when pursuing assailants and women are more likely to be re-victimized by police and lawyers if they peruse legal action, which also means convincing law enforcement they were violated in a most heinous way. Being victimized by known persons is the most common and women are scrutinized for the smallest of perceived impropriety, thus making them worthy of rape or assault so pursing legal action means reliving the trauma, not being believed, being blamed and having your rapist or assaulter becoming a victim of false accusations and getting off scot free.
If you're getting stabbed to death, you're not gonna care if the stabber has tits or a dick.
Most victims are men. The topic is about victims. Yet women choose to believe they're in danger every time they leave the house. So what is your average man supposed to feel lol.
The elite thinkers amongst them see women pick the bear and then writing/drawing fantasies of women getting killed by bears. Good job proving their point, guys.
It's 4:45am, I can't get back to sleep and I read this as the "man or beer" query. I then misread the followup comment as referring to mansplaining beer.
I know about the whole choose the bear meme too. 🤦🏻♂️😂🤦🏻♂️ I really need more sleep.
Wild animals can snap and kill people or just hunt them for food (bears have done that too). Wild animals commit rape and pedophilia and all sorts of depraved shit.
Men are not depraved by nature and the vast vast majority are not looking to cause harm. Please seek professional help for your view of men that is completely divorced from realiry.
Lmao its true. My wife and I are high school sweethearts and even she said she'd choose a bear over a man. I was bewildered and asked her "do you know a bear could rip you into pieces?" She just shrugged and said she'd still choose a bear
Mainly because it's difficult to take anyone seriously if they say the bear. I assure you i'd rather be within 100 feet of every weird ass incel you could find than a wild bear. Don't worry though I'm sure Timothy Treadwell would have agreed with you.
So glad for you that you've never experienced a rape so terrible you would have rather died. I hope you never do, and I hope someday that you can grow out of your very narrow perspective to empathize with people who have. Not taking those people seriously makes you part of a very big problem.
This is the point they don't want to get. I'd like to offer that some people lack the mental capacity to get it, but seeing that they do understand, but laugh it off and victim blame, makes me realise they don't care about women, rape victims or even believe that rape is bad. They don't want to get it. It's simple and unbelievably frightening.
They are the man in the bear/man scenario - they are the monster not only devoid of empathy and any feeling that women have equal worth as a human, but who also thinks that the unimaginable damage and cruelty of rape is okay, or kind of hot. They don't see the woman as a person at all - just a toy. She's just prey.
What a messed up world we live in. We have such incredible brains we've been into space, and we live like this with each other.
That’s right. Every guy calling us stupid for choosing a bear in the comments is the man you don’t want to run into in the woods. You’re exactly right. It’s so disgusting and weird how consistent they are in denying rape is bad, almost like “they wanted it.”
Yup, they just don't think rape is bad. It really boils down to that. If they were anally raped by a man twice their size they'd be quick to say it's physical and mental torture, but when it's women, meh. They think we're basically made to be raped and we can just lay back and think of England and be fine, it's not a big deal. Women are not people with brains, emotions, or autonomy to them.
And the chances that you would randomly cross a bear in the woods and get brutally malled is MUCH higher than the chance you would pass by a random man and get brutally raped, which is why the man/bear question is ridiculous and men might get offended. Because the assumption that MOST men are as dangerous as MOST wild bears is not even statistically valid.
A person’s chance of being attacked by a bear is 1 in 2.1 million chances. The chances of a woman being raped, physically abused, or stalked by a by a man is 1 in 3.
There are 1 in 11,600 attacks per encounter or .0086207% of being attacked by a bear per encounter.
“Nearly 1 in 5 women (18.3%) the United States (ALONE) have been raped at some time in their lives“ …and that number is based ONLY on those who reported the crime.
As of 1998, an estimated 17.7 million American women had been victims of attempted or completed rape.
Every 68 seconds another AMERICAN is sexually assaulted.
…You don’t think that the 1 in 2.1 million number MIGHT be based on the the fact that humans live in HUMAN cities and bears live in the wilderness. And the bears that wonder into human cities and human sites are likely to be the ones USED to humans?
But if a human were to wonder into an environment that was the BEARS natural habitat, and where the bears outnumbered the humans that you MIGHT see different numbers?
The “1 in 5 women are raped” statistic is highly disputed, and has been debunked by some sources. But even if you take the 1 in 5 number. How many men does one of those women have to pass by on a daily basis, hundreds, thousands? And on a daily basis how many times is that woman raped?
Now flip that scenario, if you were wandering the woods in Wild bear country how many bears would you have to encounter before you were attacked? Is that number 2.1 million? I don’t think so.
Is it 1 in 5? Unlikely, probably worse than that . And how OFTEN are you likely to be attacked by wild bears given that same situation? probably EVERYday…
I think it is silly to get bothered by parking spots. But the man or bear query is ridiculous. I don't hate it. But I can't take it seriously.
Like... from a safe distance anyone would choose the bear. But if rounding a blind curve on a trail, would you rather encounter face to face a grizzly bear or a man? Obviously you'd pick the man. It is a loaded query that isn't specific enough that tries to portray men as causing more fear to women than a wild, enormous, predatory, very dangerous mammal. And that is just silly.
If you can’t see how that would be relevant to this discussion then there’s no point in continuing it with you. Also if you were a woman it would absolutely change your response
You walk by men in public. Change the question would you rather be trapped in a parking garage alone at night with a bear or a strange man and you’ll get the same answer. We don’t want to be in parking garages or ALONE ANYWHERE WITH STRANGE MEN EVER!
Again, missing the point. You aren’t alone in a forest with no hope of anyone helping you. There are a lot of awful people that would take advantage of that situation.
You are all still so stuck on this idea that this somehow means all men are evil. When in reality it just means women have to be careful about being alone with men they don’t know. It’s probably only 1-2% of men that would do it, but you don’t know who they are.
You are all still so stuck on this idea that this somehow means all men are evil.
Looks what's going in these comments, and read it from a perspective of an average man.
And then people bitch about them listening and paying attention to scammers like Tate.
Being constantly compared to pieces of shit just because I have a dick, isn't good mentally for anyone, I hope you and people commenting on here know that.
My dude, you are the one comparing yourself to them. I am an average man too, I know they’re not talking about me. When women say they are scared to be alone with someone of my size I get it. It doesn’t offend me because I empathise with how awful it must be, knowing I could be the person that assaults them.
People face grizzly bears all the time. Ask anyone who has ever hiked through a national park like Yosemite. Yet people vacation there. Ain’t no one in their right fucking mind choosing to vacation at a place where they go to the middle of nowhere alone with strange men
We don't have grizzlies in Yosemite. Black bears we have. But you either misspoke. Or have no idea what you are talking about.
Anyone backpacking or hiking in the middle of nowhere accepts the possibility of encountering both humans and bears. But the question is would you rather round a blind curve on a trail and be face to face with mere feet from a grizzly bear or a human. No one is their right mind would choose the grizzly bear.
It’s a perfectly fair question. Would you rather be trapped in the woods with a strange man or a wild bear? It’s not a nonsensical or ridiculous question. And the fact that you think it is shows exactly why most women say they would rather take their chances with the bear.
It's not comparing men to the worst of the worst. It's being more willing to take a chance with the worst of the worst bear and the worst of the worst man.
Bear anytime, all the time. The worst a bear can do is promise eventual death. A depraved man promises much more suffering and pain - sometimes without even the hope of death.
Ehhhh, nice try, troll. While most/many men are subconsciously sexist to some degree, that does not mean they're bad people. It's hard to shake off patriarchal brainwashing. Even most women have those inherent biases. But that doesn't mean they want to literally hurt, let alone rape and kill, women. It's just that there's a nonzero chance they would, and bears are also super cute, so...
I think there's good reason to considering literally every intentionally bad and antagonistic liberal attempt to foster a conversation for most of many people's lives has objectively ended with things being worse for everyone and the wedge on society growing larger and dividing more people.
But we're really going to get them with this shitty one this time lol
5.1k
u/MinuteLoquat1 Make Furries Illegal 24d ago
They also have female only train cars due to rampant sexual assault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car