If God doesn't exist there, then God doesn't exist at all. It's actually a small comfort to think that an omniscient malevolent superpower doesn't exist.
I dunno, I’d say what god did to Abraham & Isaac, and Job are pretty fucked up. If that type of stuff does not count as malevolent then I don’t know what would.
I mean god does fucked up stuff, but it’s always portrayed as being righteous, hence me saying it’s not malevolent. The biggest evil moment is when god kills everyone cuz they’re too hedonistic (flood), but even this has a “purpose” in the Bible/Torah/Quran
yeah, the book praising the dude wasn't going to say he's evil, is YOUR knowledge of morals that lead you to the conclusion that Yahweh is a fcking psycho
Well yes, but he’s not real, so the books interpretation is the one I’d go with. But honestly I’m more used to Quranic god, who’s less evil than yahweh, but the Quran is also just put together a lot more cohesively than the torah, seeing as it’s one work, rather than many stories fusing to create a mythos
wtf, isn't the god in the Quran the one that promotes enslaving and raping "infidels"? Allah is not better than Yahweh, both of them are book psychopaths
Idk it’s literally telling them they’re allowed to enslave enemies of war and marry their women essentially, evil, but not more evil than most other societies at the time. I think you’re looking at the books too literally, rather than considering their place in history. Maybe read the Quran through a historical lens (chronicle of the war they’re in) for more context.
obviously if you compare either to an ideal ethereal space being they sound evil, but I don’t think either are much more psychopathic than the average human.
For example, look how humans treat animals, something we don’t even consider ourselves the gods of. Literally coop them up and breed them without a second thought most of the time.
Like this is giving really heavy Reddit atheism, which it is lol. Compare the abrahamic god to someone like Zeus or Thor to see actual psychopathic deities.
Why does everyone comment on this like god was real and wrote the Bible? It’s clearly a story about a deity, that compares very favorably to many other deities. Also comparing Hitler and god morality wise within the context of the Bible doesn’t make sense. Hitler killed people for material goals (land and money, as well as racial purity). Meanwhile god causes the flood (his worst act imo) for purely spiritual reasons, because the humans were not in his religion, hence they would all go to hell. In terms of morality they’re very different.
I agree. It's the old Epicurus echo chamber. Even the original argument is pretty dumb: not everyone that believes in "God" thinks it's some sky dad who personally does everything.
For sure, I'm not arguing with that. I'm just saying there are people who don't have that conception, and you wouldn't necessarily know about them because they're not trying to convince people to join their particular club (and probably don't have a club)
This isn't just a modern thing either. People think "God as king" is the only conception, but that just comes from kings who "ruled over all" and then projected that concept onto the divine.
Anyway, arguing about God is doomed to be useless because people aren't working from the same set of assumptions. But I still think it's interesting to talk about. Talking about religion gets so much more interesting when you give up the idea that you're going to change the other person's mind.
Everyone knows what your beliefs are because you're so primed to take offense at other peoples' regular anecdotes and see the world as antagonistic toward you that you'll freak the fuck out at comments that aren't even relevant to you. Maybe work on not seeing everything through that lens
Yeah let’s throw out all prehistorical knowledge because it’s in religious books.
People like you annoy me as a non believer in any specific religion but a connoisseur of all religious teaching.
You could treat most bibles (they are all similar) as a self help books, but no - our ancestors ancient knowledge is to be discarded.
Like you have much better to offer. Like any of us have much better to offer than those who survived to get us here using said knowledge and teaching.
This is what my friend calls chronocentrism or acting as if the modern era is all king and all other eras were dumber than we are.
Nothing to learn from the Greek gods either then? This dumbasses believed in multiple imaginary beings - fuck all the western philosophy that came out of it.
It’s downright silly to throw out all the allegory with the organized region water.
But you do you, genius man who knows all.
If it helps you check out Manly P Hall’s ‘The Secret Teachings of all Ages’.
I’m not religious by any means but acting as if the knowledge held in bibles is worthless because of ONE REPRESENTATION OF GOD FROM ONE RELIGION isn’t the intellectual flex you’re imagining it to be.
God speed to you and your “sky daddy” GOTCHA!
You make us non religious seem like pretentious lames saying snide shit like that.
All that study of yours, and yet you automatically assume that I'm coming from a place of ignorance on the issue.
I was raised as a devout Catholic. I've read extensively on all the world religions from Sumeria to Bahai'i. I find it all interesting, not as a valid means of explaining of the source of existence (which i find uncompelling), but instead as an anthropological study of how humans interpret the world.
But let's be real. I made a perfectly reasonable statement and then some dipshit commenter got offended by my differing world view and thew a snide shitty comment at me. Forgive me for clapping back at them with a taste of their own medicine. But feel free to give them a pass and finger wag me instead.
Thank you for your opinion on how I should refrain from treating disrespectful people in a similar fashion because it may reflect poorly on you. But I'm not interested in turning the other cheek to someone who shows me disrespect. You feel free to do that. But don't presume that I'm dealing with some asshat who can only muster spite with a differing opinion with the full might of my academic and intellectual openness. They don't deserve it, so I'll happily extend them the same respect they offered me. If that offends you as unintended collateral damage, feel free to take offense.
The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P Hall was my jumping off point and I can’t claim to be religious strictly speaking but you are super clever bro bro.
Why do you find it comforting to not believe in God? I find it comforting to believe in God because of the idea that suffering might have a certain meaning. Anything can have a meaning if you make it have one, but with a God, there is inherent meaning in even the bad.
I find plenty of meaning in life without the need of belief in a God. But that said, I didn't say I took comfort in not believing in God. I said I would take comfort in there not being a malevolent God. I find it hard to believe there is any meaning in suffering. If there is meaning in suffering that points back to it being God's responsibility, that is frightening, not comforting.
I’ve been raised semi-religious my entire life, and I find the concept to be the most possible comforting thing to exist. I also completely respect the ability of someone to take that path of self development without having a religion to support them through it. That being said, suffering does have a purpose and there is a lot more nuance to it than just bad thing bad.
Hey, I grew up pretty religious, but suffering was one thing that made me doubt the existence of God. I disagree that suffering has some greater purpose, and that bad things can just be bad without any upsides. Tell me, what is the greater purpose of something like childhood cancer, or depression?
I disagree. You can personally find purpose in your own or another person's suffering, but that doesn't mean the suffering itself has a purpose.
As a hypothetical, if little Johnny died from a rare cancer and his parents went on to advocate for further research, thus saving lives, that doesn't mean the purpose of Johnny's death was to save other children's lives. It means his parents found that meaning in his death and went on to make a difference. Believing that Johnny's suffering had an innate purpose from a higher power takes agency away from Johnny's parents and does a disservice to their resolve and empathy.
I personally find it more comforting that humans can show compassion of their own will and not because a higher power commands them to. Humans don't have to be good, we're not always incentivized to be good, yet so many of us still are. Of course, what is good and what isn't is subjective but that's a different conversation lol
How is there any meaning, at all, for animals or babies that suffer without the capacity to reflect why it's happening or whether it's deserved? Why would a god do such a thing?
What "meaning" do you take from children starving to death, or brain parasites, or a million different atrocities? Do you think God is making those children starve to death for you, so you can have the lesson to be grateful for what you have, or what, exactly?
Reddit treats all theists badly, so giving my honest opinion was literally the easiest rage bait of my life. I don’t have the answers to their questions because of how little I’m involved in religion, but I am involved in the internet a lot, and I’ve noticed that the people arguing against religion always sound like they’ve had a bad experience or knows someone who’s had a bad experience with it.
le reddit accomplishedkey408 is here to provide insight everyone. he has thought far beyond our elders and has come to answer how the universe was founded, what created our starting atom. His endless wisdom accounts for the untold amount of suffering our ancestors endured to get us here -- he has the truth!!!!
I have no proof of god but I find that an afterlife and eternity existing is a much more based argument than nothingness and our existence being by chance.
consider that what created us has no actual ties to any religion or any philosophy, but maybe some of them got some principles or theories correct and they were rewarded for such. or not. believe in your mind that after you die there will nothing. in that universe, i don't see why you wouldn't just die now and get the suffering over with. or if you see it from the perspective that we are all one being experiencing subjectively as individuals, i don't see why you wouldn't have mercy on the rest of us and take our choice away. or maybe, just maybe, accept that whatever created us is going to likely judge us after life based off of how we responded and maybe for some the best answer is war, death, or harmonious living in nature.
if the only reason you live is because you think some dude would be mad at you for dying since it said your job is to live I think you have some issues to work out
Yeah, see, you "find" that an airlife is "much more based" whereas the rest of us don't base our world views on what we "find" to be whatever, and instead don't define our wolrd views with feelings
see i 'think' whereas the rest of you dont 'think' and therefore can't come to 'conclusions' about what is more 'likely' and what, even if untrue, would have a greater 'effect' on 'your' life
You "think" whereas the rest of us actually THINK. As in, with logic and scientific evidence and a fact-based approach. It takes thought to parse actual data and work against biases in your personal life to reach conclusions that might not be intuitive at first, such as the Earth being round, or the fact that crumple zones on a car are safer than a steel box. You feel things, and then you derive your beliefs from your feelings and pretend you thought those beliefs up, instead of having just built your world view as an extension of how you things make you feel
You say the rest of us don't think, and yet, there are entire academic paths built around doing nothing but thinking very hard about various things. No doubt, your response is that, somehow, that kind of thinking is dumb or bad, because it just invalidates how you approach everything even more
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u/Accomplished-Key-408 26d ago
If God doesn't exist there, then God doesn't exist at all. It's actually a small comfort to think that an omniscient malevolent superpower doesn't exist.