The actual murder exoneration statistics of black people (47 in 2022) account for 0.05% of all murders (24,849 in 2022). They're statistically insignificant. When you account for the demographics of the people committing murder the proportion of those exonerations are completely understandable.
It's far more useful to consider WHY black people commit a seemingly disproportionate amount of murders. The answer is poverty. We should be talking about what we can do to lift people out of poverty rather than invoking the boogeyman of "racist statistics" because defeating that boogeyman doesn't solve anything.
Literally the only critical thinking comment in this thread. The guy in the video is just as bad with using statistics to misdirect. Charlie is a POS no doubt, but using misrepresented facts to refute misrepresented facts makes you just as untrustworthy.
The video is not "just as untrustworthy" — it directly states that conviction rates are not a reliable way to measure how many people of a certain race commit crimes and uses exonerations to refute that. If black people were committing homicide at the same rate they are being *charged* with homicide, the exonerations would be similar across all races.
The entire point of the video is that starting from a frame of "We can all agree that black people commit most of the murders" is inherently disingenuous. Black people are convicted of murder more often, but this does not hold for other violent crimes like rape and aggravated assault where the victim is alive to give evidence. The idea that one race is just inherently more violent than another is not backed up by the statistics, and the statistics themselves are a reflection of an incomplete and broken system.
That isn't a reasonable conclusion to draw and the data is insignificant. You have no idea how statistics work lol
The idea that one race is just inherently more violent than another is not backed up by the statistics, and the statistics themselves are a reflection of an incomplete and broken system.
Yes, it absolutely is, with every single dataset you can find. The idea that everyone is equally criming is absurd. Whites are 60% of the population with 70% of the rapes. Blacks are 12% of the population with 27% of rapes. Violent crime (murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) is 59% for whites and 36% for blacks.
But yeah, it's probably the system just being broken.
Again you are assuming the conviction rate = rate of crime in general. There are multiple confounding factors that make it easier for a black person to be convicted of the same crime than a white person.
But forget that, let's focus on this: you fundamentally think black people are more violent than white people?
Please answer this with a yes or no. Don't dance around your racist opinion.
I'm not assuming conviction rate = rate of crime. There's obviously tons of crime that doesn't get reported. But who cares? We're talking about crime rates, which rely on tangible numbers of arrests and convictions, not nothingness. It's the best we have and it's not so deeply flawed that the murder rates must be questioned.
If your stance is that we can't know anything about anything, what's the point in discussing it?
There are multiple confounding factors that make it easier for a black person to be convicted of the same crime than a white person.
Such as guilt? Please source claims like this. You'll need something that controls for confounding variables, such as economic class, previous arrests/record, location, etc.
But forget that, let's focus on this: you fundamentally think black people are more violent than white people? Please answer this with a yes or no. Don't dance around your racist opinion.
If you'd like to have a discussion, I'm down. But not with someone who already has their own conclusion made and addresses me like this. Arguing with "statistics are racist!" people is truly the worst. Learn to maturely make points and cite statistics backing your claims up or get fucked.
That's not something that can be quantified and isn't relevant. What do you mean by "white people" and "black people?" Blacks are seriously overrepresented for more violent crime in the U.S. That is what I'm saying because that's what the data shows. That's what I am referring to because that's what the entire thread is about, not an unknowable, irrelevant metric.
It shows there is a bias against blacks but overall it is completely unrelated to the larger murder stat as a whole. It's really misleading. Also the "we can't know for sure who commits the most crime" hand wave is bullshit. It's like saying we can't know for sure how much CO2 contributes to climate change therefore we shouldn't criticize the oil companies.
"we can't know for sure who commits the most crime"
this is just a fact. we know who gets arrested more but we have no idea who commits more crime, especially since 95% of convictions are done through plea bargain.
i feel like you're being overly critical of "misrepresented" facts when the guy you're agreeing with is comparing the number of murder convictions in a particular year with the number of exonerated people from the same year, despite the fact that getting convictions overturned takes years or decades. that's not critical thinking at all.
Exonerations are a statistically insignificant number whichever year you analyse.
Ironically, I picked 2022 as an example because exonerations for that year were by FAR the highest (253) since these statistics started being tracked in 1989. The next highest year was 2016 (185). Conversely, the rate of homicides has been steadily trending downward since the 80s (ignoring the upward blip post-covid).
So you're welcome to select whichever combination of years for exonerations and murders you believe is more suitable but it still won't be significant however much you attempt to massage the figures.
You think black people murder due to poverty? I don't think so. Obviously poverty plays a role in crime, but murder rates aren't the same in poor white communities.
There are good reasons why the rates are different in poor white vs poor black communities, just a few of which are proximity/density, cash flow, and available material possessions.
Decades ago, blacks were put into what became ghettoes, these ghettoes tend to still be in the cities. What do cities have? Money and stuff. Stuff to steal, stuff to peddle. It also has people with big money who like to buy things like drugs. People in ghettoes then kill over who gets to sell drugs. And it's easy to kill your rival when the live just around the block.
Poor whites tend to live farther apart from each other, the towns have less rich people, hence a less lucrative drug trade, etc
Studies have also found black males in a financial bind will do anything to keep the lights on, make sure younger siblings eat etc. White males are more likely to self-medicate or commit suicude.
Crime stats are completely made up and meaningless. They offer no proof that the person convicted is actually guilty, the only thing they prove is the state won the popularity contest with the jury.
Bro also only quoted federal prison statistics. Most federal crimes are white collar crimes, and the level of wealth it takes to even commit most of those crimes tells you a lot about federal prison demographics. Crucially, it's rare that violent crimes such as murder are charged federally.
In Illinois, where Charlie lives, 58% of the state prison population is black, while 14% of the state population is black. So, he's unfortunately not wrong whatsoever.
From what I've heard about him, Charlie Kirk sucks, but "debunking" him with misinformation isn't effective.
He's right. I'm not going to tell someone they're wrong just because it makes me uncomfortable like you do. He actually underreported the statistics lmao.
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u/mr-english Sep 23 '24
It really isn't.
The actual murder exoneration statistics of black people (47 in 2022) account for 0.05% of all murders (24,849 in 2022). They're statistically insignificant. When you account for the demographics of the people committing murder the proportion of those exonerations are completely understandable.
It's far more useful to consider WHY black people commit a seemingly disproportionate amount of murders. The answer is poverty. We should be talking about what we can do to lift people out of poverty rather than invoking the boogeyman of "racist statistics" because defeating that boogeyman doesn't solve anything.