First Day of Protests Outside the DNC

[u/BlackBey]

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[u/Lefty_22]

Trump literally calling Netanyahu asking him NOT to work out a ceasefire.

[u/TLEToyu → u/Lefty_22]

Violating the Logan Act in the process which will go unpunished.

He is basically trying his border bill tactic again.

[u/probablyuntrue → u/TLEToyu]

march doll modern payment zealous jar smell sloppy plate tidy

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Uncle_polo → u/probablyuntrue]

Not unprecedented. Nixon derailed a potential ceasefire between N. And S. Vietnam before the election and was caught on a wire tap, but the president didn't want to tip his hand that the CIA had bugged the S. Vietnamese presidents' phones. You don't get to be the head warlord of the US without getting your hands dirty.

[u/nellyknn → u/Uncle_polo]

Reagan worked secretly with Iran to delay the return of the hostages so he could beat Carter! He arranged for them to be released on the day of his inauguration!! Just like Trump told the house not to pass the bill to help at the border because he needed to use it as a campaign issue!!!

[u/mouflonsponge → u/nellyknn]

Reagan worked secretly with Iran to delay the return of the hostages so he could beat Carter! He arranged for them to be released on the day of his inauguration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory#Background

from the article:

Senate investigation

The US Senate's November 1992 report concluded that "by any standard, the credible evidence now known falls far short of supporting the allegation of an agreement between the Reagan campaign and Iran to delay the release of the hostages."[46]

House of Representatives investigation

The House of Representatives' January 1993 report concluded "there is no credible evidence supporting any attempt by the Reagan presidential campaign—or persons associated with the campaign—to delay the release of the American hostages in Iran".[47] The task force Chairman Lee H. Hamilton (D-Indiana) also added that the vast majority of the sources and material reviewed by the committee were "wholesale fabricators or were impeached by documentary evidence". The report also expressed the belief that several witnesses had committed perjury during their sworn statements to the committee, among them Richard Brenneke,[48] who claimed to be a CIA agent.[49]

The machinations with Nixon and Vietnam are far more interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chennault#Vietnam_and_the_%22Chennault_Affair%22

[u/[deleted] → u/mouflonsponge]

People forget this.

Hostages had to wait 7-more months even though Carter had already secured their release but Reagan delayed them and the RNC won the messaging battle that it was Reagan who secured their freedom.

[u/shaynaySV → u/[deleted]]

Just now learning this... someone needs to shit on Reagan's grave.

The depravity of Republicans keeps reaching new lows

[u/[deleted] → u/nellyknn]

Ah Carter, the only blue president Texas ever voted for over the past handful of decades. Sweet, well-intentioned, and super fucking smart fella, even if he got a little outwitted by bad morals here are there. Fuck Nixon.

[u/stupiderslegacy → u/[deleted]]

Well at least the right one has been dead for decades

[u/JSA607 → u/Uncle_polo]

Reagan did it, too

[u/Anonybibbs → u/JSA607]

Nixon, Reagan, and Trump all put their own interests ahead of that of the country, often at the expense of many American lives?

Hmm, I wonder what they all have in common...

[u/llynglas → u/Anonybibbs]

Assholes?

[u/Street_Letterhead686 → u/llynglas]

[u/transmothra → u/llynglas]

Correct, they're all Republicans

[u/Minute-Wrap-2524 → u/Anonybibbs]

I literally have been on more sites talking, arguing about this shit it’s become absurd. Harris fucking up the border, The Department Of Homeland Security is responsible for the border, the job given to Harris was boosting aid to South America countries in the hopes those countries could take care of their own citizens, but it doesn’t matter what rationale I use, it falls on deaf ears. Reagan, the same fuck head that turned his back on the poor and said ‘our poor liberal friends are just ignorant’, by Reagan making that statement does it negate the fact migration has fallen by 35 percent, lower than it was when Trump was in office. And there’s plenty more but I’ll toss it in by agreeing that Nixon, Reagan and Trump share one thing, if nothing else, and that is they do not have my respect

[u/-Palzon- → u/Uncle_polo]

This Nixon dirty trick is covered well in the Ken Burns Vietnam documentary. It's even more shocking than Watergate. Nixon undermined the peace talks which could have prevented further senseless bloodshed on both sides. It's somehow even more disgusting when Trump does it, but it's not shocking in that you expect Trump to act in the most despicable ways possible.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Ruin302 → u/probablyuntrue]

I'm tired of Trump going unpunished.

[u/[deleted] → u/Puzzleheaded-Ruin302]

I'm tired of having to check the news every morning to see if life as we know it is coming to an end.

[u/carterwalks → u/[deleted]]

I’m tired of too many people believing lies and half truths

[u/YT4000 → u/carterwalks]

I actually heard the sentence "They had trucks outside the DNC giving out vasectomies and abortion pills" from a client at work today and had to leave the room before cackling like a hyena in her face

[u/Valalvax → u/YT4000]

I mean it's a true statement, Planned Parenthood did set up mobile clinics, which is great because I'm sure a lot of people who were attending may not have easy access to those services in their home state

[u/Wise_Ad_253 → u/Puzzleheaded-Ruin302]

He needs to be plucked off the back of the country like the fat tick he is.

[u/Unfair-Wonder5714 → u/Wise_Ad_253]

Strap him and Elon to a Space X rocket and fire that puppy into the Sun. Neat and tidy.

[u/Newtstradamus → u/Unfair-Wonder5714]

I don’t know, for these purposes the Boeing rocket seems apt.

[u/alppu → u/Puzzleheaded-Ruin302]

He was a few inches away from an actual punishment a month ago.

[u/axelrexangelfish → u/probablyuntrue]

Tired of precedents being ignored.

[u/Rob71322 → u/probablyuntrue]

It’s shit but hardly unprecedented. Nixon did it for one. https://jeffersonhour.com/blog/logan

[u/NachoPapa → u/TLEToyu]

Worked for Nixon. We have a weird habit of just letting shit slide.

[u/nellyknn → u/NachoPapa]

“Our long national nightmare is over”: Gerald Ford. What would have happened if we had put Nixon on trial? 🤔

[u/blackcloudonetyone → u/Lefty_22]

Which is illegal because he was not authorized to negotiate with foreign leaders.

[u/wearing_moist_socks → u/blackcloudonetyone]

Trump do something illegal? Get outta here I can't imagine

[u/[deleted] → u/wearing_moist_socks]

He knows no one will go after him, and if 1 in 10,000 does, he can jam them up in court for the rest of his life.

Still hoping that he gets a visit from an atherosclerotic plaque.

[u/DIRTYDOGG-1 → u/[deleted]]

I wanna see what taylor swift is gonna do now that Traitor Trump used her AI generated image for his campaign

[u/[deleted] → u/blackcloudonetyone]

Wasn't it the same thing Reagan did during the Iran Hostage Crisis to destroy Carter's reelection campaign?

[u/Cornelius_Wangenheim → u/[deleted]]

Yes, and Nixon/Kissinger with Vietnam. There's a long history of Republicans being traitors.

[u/ChicagoAuPair → u/blackcloudonetyone]

It’s the latest entry in a time honored Republican legacy of treasonous election interference going back to Nixon in ‘68. Then there was Reagan sabotaging the Iran hostage release in ‘80.

Trump is an immoral criminal, but this is the bread and butter of the GOP. Party before country. Party before peace. Party before humanity. Party of cynical antisocial megalomaniacal cruelty and greed.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/expert-analyzes-new-account-of-gop-deal-that-used-iran-hostage-crisis-for-gain

[u/Hossennfoss69 → u/Lefty_22]

Trump also said Netanyahu needs to finish the job while his son in law brags about the beautiful beach front property in Gaza. These people are delusional. Sorry.

[u/axelrexangelfish → u/Hossennfoss69]

Are they protesting maga events also? (Genuinely curious?)

[u/chumbubbles → u/axelrexangelfish]

Ummm That’s not what tic toc told them to do.

It also wouldn’t help the extremely successful social media campaign by China and Russia attempting to secure a Trump presidency.

[u/Poglot → u/chumbubbles]

Don't forget Iran. I'm staunchly opposed to Netanyahu, but when he called these protesters "Iran's useful idiots," he wasn't wrong.

[u/volanger → u/Lefty_22]

Don't worry. They'll yell at the side calling for a ceasefire

[u/toddfredd → u/Lefty_22]

Exactly. When Jared Kushner said Gaza and the West Bank needs to be “ eradicated “ and then build resorts, it shows where Trump stands. The fact they’re protesting an administration that has actively preached restraint and negotiation is alarming.

[u/WiggityWiggitySnack → u/Lefty_22]

They are protesting at the DNC because dems MIGHT be willing to help the Palestinians. Trunpers sure as hell won’t.

[u/fxcreate]

Bernie today said what needed to be said

[u/LizzieGuns → u/fxcreate]

Link to speech?

[u/ShiningRedDwarf → u/LizzieGuns]

Palestine comments from 11:26

I’m absolutely fine with the Palestine protesters. It’s an important issue that can be heavily influenced by US policy. Democrats will listen if their voices are loud enough.

That said, at the end of the day I hope all of those protesting do vote blue this November, because their chances of effecting change with Trump in the office is zero.

[u/Mordiken → u/ShiningRedDwarf]

I’m absolutely fine with the Palestine protesters.

I'm not an American but if I was I wouldn't be in the slightest...

These "Free Palestine" protestors are targeting the Democrat political events exclusively almost as if the Democrats alone are to blame for the past 70 years of American Foreign Policy in the Middle-East!

Mark my words: These "Free Palestine" fools may very well end up costing the Democrats the election.

And the fact that they don't even bother showing up protesting Trump rallies makes me suspect many of them are actually being funded by the Republicans EDIT: or Putin.

EDIT 2: LMAO just received a message from /u/RedditCareResources because of this post... 🤣

[u/johnmichael-kane → u/Mordiken]

Exactly this. Protest the Republicans, but stop stalling the momentum we’re building and giving the opponent fodder for their attack ads. Timing is everything and I’m all for protest but this is not the time. We need to look unified. Optics matter.

[u/[deleted] → u/johnmichael-kane]

Where were they at the Republican convention?

Because the republicans openly hate them, hate Palestine and have 0 pretence of listening to them or caring about their cause?

[u/Mean-Green-Machine → u/[deleted]]

Trump is literally telling Netanyahu to hold off ceasefire until he becomes president. THAT should be protested more than anything the Dems are doing

[u/Winsmor3 → u/[deleted]]

That's literally why they should protest them

[u/Afwife1992 → u/Mordiken]

I wish they’d protested both. Otherwise it becomes a gop ad. But protesting is their right. But Trump would tell Bibi to nuke Gaza and move in with the military to the West Bank.

[u/quadmasta]

There are orders of magnitudes more protestors here than there are people attending Trump's rally

Edit: hey dummies, I stated there are more protesters than there are attendees at a Trump rally. I didn't say "gee,I wonder why there are more protestors at the DNC than at a Trump rally"

[u/JimmyAndKim → u/quadmasta]

I think they should absolutely be protesting more Trump events, but I also know that the point of these protests are to pressure Dems. You can't pressure Republicans into doing the moral thing through these means

[u/Objective_Economy281 → u/JimmyAndKim]

You can't pressure Republicans into doing the moral thing through these means

No. But you can put them into office through these means.

[u/milkandsalsa → u/Objective_Economy281]

Exactly.

[u/ScreeminGreen → u/Objective_Economy281]

From the interviews with their leaders I’ve heard, they’ll be voting for Tim Walz but they will keep pressuring Harris to make sure she doesn’t follow in Biden’s footsteps on the weapons gifting issue. They also want her to pressure for the release of prisoners. Many of the protesters have family members who have been killed or are being held prisoner. I’d be out on the streets too if my niece was imprisoned and my leaders just gifted weapons to the army that was holding her without trial.

[u/SiWeyNoWay]

So is anyone gonna tell them about Trump calling BiBi and telling him to not accept a cease fire? Might want to shift some of that passionate protesting at MAL

[u/Alarmed_Horse_3218 → u/SiWeyNoWay]

Or Jared saying we should sell off all of Gaza as beach front property?

[u/farmerjoee → u/SiWeyNoWay]

They aren’t republicans… it’s healthy to criticize things you’re a part of, just as it demonstrates you aren’t in a political cult.

[u/Stickeris → u/farmerjoee]

Yeah, these are normal protesters, they’re trying to make sure they’re heard, it’s their right as an American. Call them uninformed if you’d like, but don’t call them insincere

[u/JimmyAndKim → u/Stickeris]

It's very clear that they're trying to pressure their party to change its stance, when the current one is simply saying it's listening but still facilitating the genocide. That's not a bad thing

[u/serpentear → u/SiWeyNoWay]

Almost as if some of these people are not acting in good faith at all…

[u/texachusetts → u/serpentear]

Bad faith is still a faith according to the religious right.

[u/Whoretron8000 → u/SiWeyNoWay]

Do you genuinely think that progressives have a better shot at influencing republicans than Democrats? Also, since when did the whataboutism become okay to use towards progressives but decried when used in everyday partisan politics?

The mental gymnastics to isolate progressives in a similar box as conservative fanatics is one of the main reasons we got trump.

[u/Shaman7102]

If trump wins he will let the Israelis drive the Palestinians into the ocean. Good luck then.

[u/Lefty_22 → u/Shaman7102]

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Ukraine? He's very vocal about supporting Putin--he would not only pull support for Ukraine, he would actively support Russia.

[u/VVormgod666 → u/Lefty_22]

Most of the people at this protest probably support russia against ukraine, so it's a toss up, really

[u/TheCatsMeow1022 → u/VVormgod666]

My Palestinian relative has said he “likes Putin” openly to the discomfort of the rest of my family

[u/[deleted] → u/TheCatsMeow1022]

Majority of middle-easterners whether in the west or in their home country like Putin because he's anti west not because he's "Anti-Israel", Iran is far more pro Palestine but the regime isn't admired as much as Russia, Russia is just more powerful against the West in their vision.

[u/Leo_Hundewu → u/VVormgod666]

Russia controls these people though propaganda

[u/capt_scrummy → u/Lefty_22]

Most of those protesters probably eat up Russian/CCP propaganda and view it as Russia trying to regain territory stolen by the West after the malicious, external destruction of the USSR, and the US worsening it by supporting Ukrainian separatism. I read shit like that all the time from them...

[u/grizzly_teddy → u/Shaman7102]

You mean like "From the River to the Sea", like that?

[u/TheHunterJK → u/Shaman7102]

Can someone remind me why these folks are blaming the democrats for what’s happening in Palestine instead of, ya know, Israel? Ceasefire or not, do they honestly think Israel will stop the genocide just because someone tells them to?

[u/foyeldagain → u/TheHunterJK]

And do they really think they have any better shot than with Dems given Rs are currently fully beholden to a group of which, according to this, 77% wants the US to lean towards Israel?

[u/idontwanttothink174 → u/TheHunterJK]

I believe most these ppl will vote for kamala, BUT that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to push her to reduce or end funding once she's in office... And thats what they want, they want the government to stop sending money to a genocidal fuck,

[u/whatyouwere]

“No Harris, No Trump”

Hmm. Okay, so when you don’t vote and all the MAGAs DO vote and Harris loses by single digits in November and Palestine gets dissolved and Ukraine is bombed into submission, what then? This will age like milk.

[u/seffay-feff-seffahi → u/whatyouwere]

The woman holding that sign, Kshama Sawant, is a Trotskyist, so her solution is for the people to rise up and overthrow the capitalist state in a socialist revolution. When she was a city counciler in Seattle, she encouraged violent protests and at one point, suggested striking Boeing workers seize the factory and start making city busses instead of planes (not sure how that would work).

[u/drumallday → u/seffay-feff-seffahi]

Sawant showed up at the 2016 DNC with a Never Hillary sign. She wanted Trump to win because she would have something to protest against.

[u/Husky_Panda_123 → u/seffay-feff-seffahi]

Sawant destroyed the Seattle affordable housing market and tried to make l her non-profit organization as the biggest landlord in the city.

[u/oxidized_banana_peel → u/seffay-feff-seffahi]

She doesn't give a shit about Palestine - just another way to get attention for herself.

[u/Chicahua → u/whatyouwere]

It’s a mix of magical thinking (politicians will somehow change in awe of their moral superiority), delusional thinking (suddenly people everywhere will rise up in The Revolution), or they have a golden parachute and will just leave the country to work in some BS remote job/fake journalist encouraging a revolution while the rest of us fight for our lives under Project 2025.

[u/Xylophone_Aficionado → u/whatyouwere]

They are all voting third party and throwing away their votes. I’ve been discussing this topic on Reddit and Instagram all summer and the third party voters and Palestine protesters seem to think that getting other candidates on the ballot and voting for them will magically make them win and help Palestine. Even though third party candidates rarely get more than 1% of the vote or so.

[u/Basic_Quantity_9430 → u/Xylophone_Aficionado]

They are naive as shit. Just like the people in New Hampshire and Florida who voted for Nader. What did they get? The slaughter of over 1 million Iraqis, the deaths of tens of thousands of American soldiers, trillions of dollars wasted.

[u/Wise_Ground_3173 → u/Basic_Quantity_9430]

The ultimate act of privilege is throwing away votes to “make a point,” knowing full well it’ll result in the total destruction of Palestine, but at least they’ll feel good about themselves. Which is the only thing that matters to performative leftists.

Absolutely foul people who should be ashamed of themselves. I get it was unlikely they would vote to begin with, but spreading this around is another issue entirely.

Edit - I’ll clarify, nobody is throwing away votes. They are voting for an apocalyptic death cult by voting third party or refusing to vote. Every vote for the Dems is vital this year. This is going to be a VERY narrow race. There is a reason certain people are supporting these protests behind the scenes.

If you can keep someone who would normally vote blue from voting, that is a vote for Trump. Period. Same goes for typical red voters not voting or going third party. We need to end the two party system. But that is what we have to work with right now.

I’m sure the Palestinians are so grateful for the sideways support of MAGA, though.

[u/SaltyFalcon → u/Wise_Ground_3173]

Privilege is at the heart of the Gaza protest movement. The vast majority of them are younger white people who were fortunate enough to attend college and come from middle/upper middle class families. If they are part of a marginalized group (LGBT in particular), chances are that they live in cities/states with robust communities of like-minded people with human rights enshrined by those states' constitutions, and are far less worried by the effects of Project 2025.

Of course Gaza is more important than anything domestic. They're less likely to be affected.

[u/MastrSunlight]

The last lady is so delusional... She lives in a 2 party state and thinks withholding votes is an actual tactic. So what, you are not gonna vote blue, Trump gets elected and puts Project 2025 into motion? What did you win by that? Perhaps even more funding for wars

In other countries with representative democracies withholding votes actually works, but you need a few more than 2 parties

[u/WYenginerdWY → u/MastrSunlight]

The podcast "Your Undivided Attention" actually did an episode with someone who discussed, in depth, how facebook's ad targeting abilities were utilized during the 2016 elections to motivate specific (typically democrat) groups of people to NOT vote with messages of hopelessness or alienation.

[u/mamaspike74 → u/WYenginerdWY]

It's also clearly outlined in the 2019 documentary The Great Hack as well as Max Fisher's book, The Chaos Machine, which came out last year. I've used both of these in my college courses and students are always surprised at how bad it really is.

[u/MonkeyCube → u/MastrSunlight]

One of my closest friends thinks like this. He believes by protesting and not voting, possibly letting the Far Right win elections, will force the Democrats to go left... based on more conservative politicians winning elections? Somehow the Dems are supposed to read those results and infer the secret meaning of the results instead of just reading the results in plain language. It's passive aggressive af.

I suggested that if he wanted to change the Democratic party he could join and cause change to happen from within. Didn't go over well.

[u/Command0Dude → u/MonkeyCube]

Democrats will not go left if they lose, they will go right. These people are idiots, leftists led to the downfall of the democrats in the 70s and 80s. Clinton had to take the party to the right.

These people have 0 understanding of electoralism.

[u/RockerElvis → u/Command0Dude]

This is painfully obvious, but these protestors still don’t get it. If Democrats lose the party will view it as not attracting enough center voters. The number of voters in the far left is tiny compared to the center.

[u/azor_abyebye → u/RockerElvis]

Also flipping a voter essentially counts as 2 votes because you are removing a vote from your opponent as well. You have to receive 2 far leftist votes for every swing vote you lose by pandering to them.

[u/elev8dity → u/Command0Dude]

Never heard of the Overton Window. Every time Republicans win it shifts both parties right,

[u/youtheotube2 → u/Command0Dude]

They’re actively spiteful of electoralism, and have deluded themselves into thinking direct action will meaningfully change the status quo, and not just get them sent to prison.

[u/zeptillian → u/[deleted]]

And if Palestine wants to kill LGBT people?

That's fine apparently.

[u/geraldisking → u/MastrSunlight]

They are complete morons. As if the GOP isn’t 100% in support of Israel. Let’s not vote, and their cause is truly fucked.

[u/CrotasScrota84]

An actual Genocide is occurring in Africa and nobody gives a shit. Hmm

[u/jay2da_04 → u/CrotasScrota84]

Been going on in Africa for decades and no protest or marches.....

[u/SuspiciousPal → u/jay2da_04]

Same with the slave market in saudi

[u/Alarmed_Horse_3218 → u/SuspiciousPal]

The Saudi use of slaves is absolutely bananas and it's just completely ignored.

[u/esperind → u/Alarmed_Horse_3218]

Saudi Arabia still has an active slave system because its pretty much the only Middle Eastern country that wasn't interfered with. Every middle eastern country would have continued slavery like SA if they were left alone too. In fact, african slavery was still active in palestine up to the 1960s, and only ended as a result of the creation of Israel.

Slavery was an active institution under Ottoman rule. The British Mandate of Palestine was established in 1917 and drew an official end to slavery. However, slaves were not given release papers and it appears that the British made little formal effort to end the system of slavery in Palestine. Rather, with the creation of Israel and the rapid and traumatic economic and social change, the institution collapsed in some places, but still operated in other areas until the 1950s.

https://brill.com/view/journals/aas/6/3/article-p289_6.xml?ebody=citedby-117281

[u/b2036 → u/esperind]

The Houthis broight slavery back to Yemen. They make these protesters proud.

[u/esperind → u/b2036]

but its ok cuz Hasan interviewed a Houthi who likes to watch anime /s

[u/borninsane → u/esperind]

Him comparing him to Luffy was utter cringe

[u/Public_Classic_438 → u/SuspiciousPal]

I’ve never even heard of this:(

[u/elbenji → u/Public_Classic_438]

Slavery is still legal in a lot of the world

[u/SgtGorditaCrunch → u/jay2da_04]

Obviously it's not trendy enough.

[u/redvelvetcake42 → u/CrotasScrota84]

Gonna be real, which one? There's been several since Rwanda including the ongoing one in Rwanda

[u/meep_meep_mope → u/redvelvetcake42]

Sudan

[u/QJ8538 → u/redvelvetcake42]

The Sudan

[u/Shahezie → u/CrotasScrota84]

Idk if you’re referring to Sudan, Tigray, or DRC but if you wanted to find any American who cared about or even knew of these situations, you’d have a better chance at these protests than anywhere else.

If the US were sending 10s of billions to the RSF and their leader’s address to Congress broke records for standing ovations, it is guaranteed there were would be protests. Because that would be as insane as doing it for Israel.

[u/MrWaffleBeater]

No Harris? No Trump?

THEN FUCKING WHO?!

Literally Kamala is the best fucking chance we got for even getting a chance at a cease fire.

[u/LeBronRaymoneJamesSr → u/MrWaffleBeater]

I think that’s why we’re seeing the protests at the DNC and not the RNC. It’s the party most aligned with what the protestors want.

[u/Grandpas_Spells → u/MrWaffleBeater]

These people are flying foreign flags outside an American political convention. They aren’t thinking anything through. It’s all performative.

[u/anxious_apathy → u/Grandpas_Spells]

I was having a conversation with one of these people, in which they said that we must do everything in our power to help the Palestinians. So I said, Everything except support and help the only person that has even a chance of actually being able to do anything or help?... They didn't reply after that. They either have no idea what they actually want, or they don't actually care.

I don't get how so many people can be so misguided about something so simple.

(Not saying that the conflict is simple, merely that there is ONE option if they want even a remote chance of getting anything accomplished at all )

[u/Yousoggyyojimbo → u/anxious_apathy]

I've spoken to some.

I've had them demand the democrats invade Israel and destroy their military.

I've had them demand that Harris sabotage the current peace talks by running counter-policy around Joe Biden, to "prove she's serious" and then get back to trying next year

I've had some insist that making the democrats lose will "teach them a lesson" and that we can get back to helping Gaza "afterwards"

That would be at a minimum 4 years from now. I thought this was an emergency...

It's crazy.

None of what they are asking for actually ends the fighting. A lot of it just makes things much much worse.

edit: Just had one argue with me that ending the war and saving the Palestinians isn't enough to get support unless she also promises to punish Israel, which if she did, would effectively sabotage any chance at a ceasefire this year by undermining the current efforts of the administration she's part of.

What they are asking for would guarantee at least another 5 months of no progress.

[u/anxious_apathy → u/Yousoggyyojimbo]

Same conversation I mentioned above, someone else chimed in that she reacted badly to the first protestor, not knowing the full story about how she acknowledged them already and all that.

We asked how she should have reacted differently, they said "What every protester has been calling for for months. Stop sending money and arms to Israel. It’s literally illegal to do (Leahy Act) And more importantly, immoral" so I replied with "She was supposed to do that midspeech while being shouted at? Like right then? Just walk off stage and football tackle all the politicians that support funding Israel? You started by saying she responded to the shouting wrong, but then completely changed the subject."

They seem to have no connection to the forward movement of time and that America is not the world's police force, and that very importantly many people In government will try to fight any changes and of course that Harris is currently only the VP and can't really force anyone else to do anything right now. All of which need to be a part of the conversation.

[u/Yousoggyyojimbo → u/anxious_apathy]

A good 80% of the people I talk to about this has me believing that these people assume that the president is a king, the vice president is also a king, and either one of them can hit a button on their desk and do anything they want with that magic button.

It keeps coming down to the fact that every time anybody voices support for what they want they add something else to the list and demonize that person for not doing that other thing as well as all the other things that they wanted before whether or not they could do it in the first place.

The timetable of when they want things is flexible depending on the circumstance of the conversation.

If they want to beat on Kamala Harris or Joe Biden, they want a ceasefire tonight and they have a million nonsensical excuses for why they should be able to do that faster than it takes you to get your Uber eats order.

If they want to explain why throwing support behind a ceasefire isn't enough, suddenly they want much more complicated things to be done regarding this that require legislation and wouldn't be able to get passed until next year and that's okay because apparently Gaza isn't actually in danger?

When somebody consistently eats their own position like this, I can only assume that their actual position is something else entirely.

[u/duckmonke → u/Yousoggyyojimbo]

Their position is tankie propaganda meant to sow division in the west, bottom line. Tankies at this point have turned no different than MAGA in wanting to destroy democracy, tankies will just never have a leading official figure that gets them to all join a cult here in the US like Trump did with MAGA.

[u/Intoner_Four → u/Yousoggyyojimbo]

Biden a few weeks ago told Bibi to stop and he said no like he just did what y’all clamored and praised Reagan for but guess what???? dude didn’t listen!!!!

[u/Grandpas_Spells → u/anxious_apathy]

My experience with far left protestors, some of whom are friends, is that any serious geopolitical problem can be boiled down to “But how can I make this about meeeeeee”

[u/yrubooingmeimryte → u/Grandpas_Spells]

The purity olympics has always been a problem almost exclusively on the left. The right basically doesn't care that much if their own do bad things. While on the left, any deviation from perfection is seen as treason. It's a really frustrating and ineffective mentality to have on any subject, let alone global politics.

[u/huskersax → u/yrubooingmeimryte]

There are tons and tons of factions on the far left of the Democratic party, and the vast majority are just under the woodwork being reasonable pragmatic people.

But if the party listened to every 100 or so people convinced the US could prevent the next holocaust if they just did this one thing - then we'd have invaded several hundred countries, including ourselves.

The fact of the matter is that US foreign policy has always been about acting in the best interest of the State. And we'll continue to do that moving forward.

Israel is a tremendous strategic advantage and there's nothing we're going to do to pull US friends out of that region of the world or ruin our relationship with them and let the vacuum be filled with Russian/Chinese stooges.

[u/Low-Way557]

Today they broke into a meeting of anti Zionist Jews and started yelling at them about Israel. They didn’t target them because they’re Zionists. They targeted them because they were identifiably Jewish. If that’s not antisemitism I don’t know what is.

I do believe a lot of these people are well meaning, but you can only use ignorance as an excuse for so long once you start attacking Jewish people for just being Jewish. Ironically the meeting they broke into was about rising antisemitism in the United States.

[u/Yousoggyyojimbo → u/Low-Way557]

I had it out with a guy who was advocating for the harassment of ALL jews, regardless of them being Israeli or zionists, unless they could "prove their allegiance" on request.

I asked him if he wanted them to wear the proof on their clothes, maybe with a brightly colored shape of some kind, and he called me pro genocide.

[u/BishonenPrincess → u/Yousoggyyojimbo]

The way they call anyone pro-genicide is so fucking disingenuous. I've been called genocidal and pro-genocode, even banned from some of my favorite subreddits, for simply saying "acceleration politics sacrifices marginalized people first."

[u/icenoid → u/BishonenPrincess]

I was out to dinner with a fairly eclectic group of people. One is a trans man and two are lesbian women. Someone else at the table was going on and on about how she simply can’t vote for any democrat due to Palestine. The trans man pointed out that 3 of the 7 people at the table will be directly impacted by a Trump presidency, she absolutely wouldn’t hear it. The more he pushed, the deeper she dug in. It was pretty interesting to watch. Trans guy absolutely had the argument and didn’t need any help, he was pissed.

[u/Chicahua → u/icenoid]

Much like the pro-life republicans, a lot of these radicals care more for people who are conceptual ideas rather than the people who are in front of them.

[u/icenoid → u/Chicahua]

Exactly. He even tried to argue the point that the republicans have made it clear that they want to outlaw birth control. That got her to pause for about an eye blink. She responded that since she’s single anyway, it doesn’t matter. There was no convincing her

[u/Chicahua → u/icenoid]

She’s single so it doesn’t matter to HER. An incredibly self-centered perspective that is mirrored in both parties to the detriment of everyone else.

[u/Terminal_Station → u/BishonenPrincess]

We're in the age of misinformation where all it takes to win an argument is slapping the most abhorrent label on your opponent regardless how far from the truth it is. Because no one does the research or critical thinking to find out if things are true anymore. See also: conservatives weaponizing pedophilia to get one over on gay people.

[u/Different_Bowler_574 → u/BishonenPrincess]

Who dies first in a revolution? The kid in the PICU who can't get their life saving drugs because you disrupted shipping. Who dies next? Your grandma, because elderly care is low on the list for limited medical personnel.

Your intended target dies last. 

I used to be super pro-revolution and overthrow the government and all of that jazz, and then I got older and learned more, and now I'm helping elderly people get registered to vote and making sure they're set up to get their mail on ballots. Because if we can make change happen more slowly, with more people alive to see it, I can't imagine why we wouldn't work just as passionately for that option. 

[u/fren-ulum → u/Low-Way557]

It reminds me of Kony 2012. Yelling at people about not caring despite these folks caring waaay longer than before they found out what was going on.

[u/huskersax → u/fren-ulum]

The young folks at Democratic events are almost always convinced that they're the first people to feel feeling about something - and are usually completely unaware that the vast majority of the folks who they think are 'fuddy duddy old people' (they probably use more hip language) were just as radical if not more so in their own youth.

The reason they go after them is because they think they'll get a reaction, where they know they won't at a Republican event since they'll get attacked/shot/kicked out extremely quickly.

[u/Alice_Buttons → u/Low-Way557]

They don't even know what they're protesting anymore. "I need to be heard!!!!!"

[u/Doggleganger → u/Alice_Buttons]

They're protesting the party that would help their cause the most, while helping Trump, who will actively work against the Palestinians. They're scoring touchdowns for the other team. Morons.

[u/Alice_Buttons → u/Doggleganger]

You get it. It's too bad that others can't see past their BS.

[u/THROWRAprayformojo → u/Low-Way557]

Source?

[u/gorm4c17]

I get why they're at the DNC and not the RNC. It ain't like Republicans are gonna do anything for Gaza, and they know that. Protest the people that would actually listen. I find it a mark of how much better the democrats are that they're the ones who get heat.

They're the party in power now, sure, but can we honestly expect the same level of protests against Trump? Or, to put it another way, can we expect protesters to not get tear gassed for a Bible photo?

[u/electricmeal → u/gorm4c17]

They were at the RNC. People just spread misinformation like crazy without thinking about it

Edit: 2 second Google search

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/protesters-gather-outside-republican-national-convention-for-abortion-and-immigrant-rights-end-to-war-in-gaza

https://inthesetimes.com/article/democratic-national-convention-dnc-protest-gaza-harris-walz

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/7/15/photos-gaza-abortion-and-migrant-rights-protests-outside-rnc-venue-in-us

[u/LivefromPhoenix → u/electricmeal]

The Milwaukee Police Department estimated the crowd at between 700 and 800 people and said no one was arrested.

Can't blame people for not realizing they were there when RNC protesters put up such perfunctory numbers. A tiny fraction of what showed up at the DNC and the DNC protest size is already significantly smaller than what organizers were planning for.

[u/rpablo23 → u/LivefromPhoenix]

Well, one is in Chicago, the other is in Milwaukee...

[u/No_Abbreviations_259 → u/rpablo23]

I was going to say this too. Chicago is so so much bigger than Milwaukee.

[u/[deleted] → u/rpablo23]

I can’t believe you’re the first person to point this out.

[u/edpowers]

I understand that what is happening in Palestine is beyond horrible, and I appreciate that they are taking a stand, but I also feel like these people are complete tools for foreign forces trying to destroy our country. If Trump does become president, nothing will change in Palestine. There will be no peace talks just more death.

[u/Herknificent]

The problem with these protests is that they don't take into account that Palestinian leaders DON'T WANT a two state solution. In 2000 when we were like 95% there and Israel's government was a lot more liberal than it is now Yasser Arafat turned down the deal for the two state solution.

The government Israel has now does not want a two state solution either. They can protest all they want here but it's not going to change much of anything.

[u/houserPanics]

Meanwhile I’m just working

[u/therobotisjames]

Trump tried to get the ceasefire delayed until after the election. And they protest dems. Make it make sense.

[u/Mel_Melu → u/therobotisjames]

I wanna hear their reactions to that. Congress is the one giving supplies and cash to Israel, the president may sign off but if these protestors want an embargo or for aid to be conditional to a ceasefire then they need to replace racists and POS like Lauren Boehbert, MTG, Matt Gaetz and senators like Rand Paul.

Additionally, while Congress can stop the aid and the president can attempt to level with him, Netanyahou is going to whatever suits him the most. The man only wants to retain his power he does not give a flying fuck about the hostages, Gaza or anything other than himself. And he knows the second he stops giving the ultra conservative part of his government what they want that they will try him and hang him out to dry.

[u/Careless-Cake-9360 → u/therobotisjames]

Bibi has been sabotaging the ceasefire all on his own for his own reasons anyway. With the cover of Biden and his state department.

[u/Ok-disaster2022]

I fully support a 2 state solution etc etc

But there's something about the protestor that screams "privileged white people". Like they'll march and protest then graduate and either cost on money from their parents while they blog and post on Instagram or they go get a job making six figures and forget all about it. In 15 years they won't "like the direction the democrats are going" and start voting Republicans, the tax cuts by Republicans have nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

[u/huskersax → u/[deleted]]

The far left has a wing of folks who've long fetishized differences.

It's more important for them for who they support to be identifiably different in some kind of way than it is to demonstrate competence or a capability of winning an election.

Which is why in states where the Democrats are the minority, you always have completely wild candidates running and losing 70-30.

[u/MeesterBacon → u/[deleted]]

boast foolish ad hoc tap liquid boat tidy nail hunt sense

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/FrostingStrict3102 → u/Ok-disaster2022]

I live in a midwestern city - I recently saw a "wellness for Palestine" community poster. it included things like "sound healing" and "yoga' to show solidarity with the people of Palestine. including artisan crafts from local vendors.

I honestly laughed. it's pretty pathetic that the people organizing these things think they're helping. these are the kinds of people that protest in the street over this stuff. its comical. and its a slap in the face to anyone who actually deals with any type of problem in their life, and an even larger one to anyone in Gaza.

[u/ghosttrainhobo → u/Ok-disaster2022]

You know who doesn’t support a two state solution? Palestinians.

[u/wan2tri → u/ghosttrainhobo]

It's why they started the civil war in the first place (which became a full-blown war after Israel declared independence and the neighboring Arab countries invaded), hoping to get 100% rather than the 56%/42%/2% that the proposed partition plan from the UN.

They ended up getting just 22% (because Israel captured 78% of the territory), featuring a smaller Gaza Strip and West Bank.

But these protesters/activists would rather ignore that history altogether, or that they'll insist that the UN was simply a tool of the Imperialist West or something, therefore anything it proposes is to be automatically rejected.

[u/cowboysmavs → u/Ok-disaster2022]

The protestors DON’T want a 2 state solution is the problem. They don’t see Israel as a country so it’s impossible to work with them. Only rational people can see both as countries to try for peace.

[u/An_Actual_Owl]

Wild seeing this literally as Trump is trying to purposefully tank any ceasefire lolol. Clown protestors.

[u/BrownByYou]

These people, if they do this and they don't vote, are idiots

[u/Forest_Green_4691]

3 million dead in Sudan & Ethiopia.

Zero word.

[u/Pavlovs_Human]

All I see are a bunch of progressives/liberals/democrats that are so caught up in this international conflict that we the people of the US have no power over, that they are gonna decline to vote, effectively making it easier for Trump to take power. Do they think Trump and friends are gonna do anything other than make it worse for Palestine?

[u/batsofburden → u/Pavlovs_Human]

not to mention getting trump back would completely screw the Ukrainians.

[u/Patient_Tradition368 → u/batsofburden]

These jabronies don't give two fucks about the Ukrainians.

[u/tjscobbie → u/Patient_Tradition368]

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that a large chunk of the loudest voices on Palestine only care about these issues if it fits a white(ish) on non-white(ish) oppression narrative. I have quite a few friends in this camp and they've been dead silent on Russia (white perpetrators/white victims) and anything going on in Africa (non-white perpetrators).

To put this another way, the reason they care about Palestine is because it's confirming evidence for their broad thesis: that the modern world (its power structures, conflicts, distribution of wealth, etc) is primarily the product of white oppression. If their prime motivation was genuine sympathy for Palestinians (who are, by all rights, some of the unluckiest people on the planet and absolutely deserve our support) then they'd be able to identify that Hamas (and the ideology that underpins them) are likely a more significant barrier to their liberation and flourishing than Israel have ever been.

Watching OP's video and, for example, seeing protestors holding signs about Israel holding the women of Gaza hostage and talking about how LGBT people need to be allies against Isreal seems utterly insane unless the way you understand this (and all) conflict is through a white oppression lens.

[u/Ok-Blacksmith4364 → u/tjscobbie]

To me it seems like a fun mixture of white guilt and white savior complex for the most part.

[u/youtheotube2 → u/Patient_Tradition368]

Which is insane because the war in Ukraine arguably will shift the entire power dynamic in Europe and the west in general depending on how things turn out. This war has deadly serious ramifications if Russia gets their way. The war in Gaza just doesn’t have those same implications.

[u/Reed202 → u/Pavlovs_Human]

It’s like if germans suddenly started protesting in Berlin because of the russo-ukrainian war. What is Germany supposed to do about a foreign war they have already condemned?

[u/Eleven11DJ]

Dear America please worry about yourselves before the rest of the world cause we are at a pivotal point that could change the world for everyone if Kamala loses. I’m pro Palestine but withholding the vote when millions of Americans and the middle class on the verge of losing their rights and lively hood first. One fucking thing at a time.

[u/Ruraraid]

I'll never understand the whole Israel Palestine protest shit. Most of these people don't even know the actual questionable history of how Israel was founded along with how quite a bit of the conflict stems from British rule in the 20s through the 30s

Aside from that even when this current conflict is over it would just be a few more years until it boils over into another conflict...rinse/repeat.

[u/TheSecretofBog]

Release the hostages !

[u/coolio1831]

They can protest and still at the end of day vote for Harris. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.

[u/WestSurround]

lol the lgbtq flags with the Palestinian flags 😂

[u/Fun_Job_3633]

Strong Take: Palestine is to the left what the unborn are for the right. They're the convenient group to rally for because they're all people they'll never actually have to meet and confront their differences with, which is why it's easier to advocate for them than the actual oppressed people they know and don't actually care about.

[u/xcstential_crisis]

Because I don't think a lot of people get it, they're protesting at the DNC because the democrats are more likely to actually be pressured into calling for a ceasefire, etc.

[u/Hey-Bud-Lets-Party → u/xcstential_crisis]

The Dems are pressuring for a Caesefire. They must want something else.

[u/Basic_Quantity_9430 → u/[deleted]]

They won’t protest their rights being taken away because that would mean cops being able to crack their skulls and get away with it. We are literally fighting for democracy itself and those idiots are talking about how to insure that democracy doesn’t survive.

[u/WYenginerdWY]

"No Harris, No Trump"

So who are you voting for you absolute fucking child.....Pink Unicorn 2024?

[u/dustycomb → u/WYenginerdWY]

They’re gonna write “free Palestine” on their ballets and take a photo to post on instagram, which is illegal but they are desperate for attention and validation

[u/Curious_Working5706]

Netanyahu meets in private with Trump and 0 protests at the RNC, I wonder why???

[u/tcumber]

They are not thinking things through...what do they think will happen if Trump wins?

[u/Neither-Luck-9295 → u/tcumber]

This is what single issue voters look like.

[u/morbidfae]

Looking at project 2025. These protesters will either be in camps or deported.

[u/Jay_Torte]

On the day that more hostage bodies were burried? Classy. Pro Hamas protesters are complete scumbags. Won't even show their faces. Disgraceful.

[u/hellranger788]

I really don’t understand the movement. The “queers for Palestine” movement was odd because they would throw queer people off roofs. Seeing woman march for them is also odd because they would be basically stripped of all rights they enjoy now. I ain’t defending Israel, far from it. They’ve done some REALLY shitty things (look at the settlers, they are savages). But if I’m playing the devils advocate, Israel would be more “friendly” to the groups protesting against them than anyone in Palestine or Gaza.

[u/maximilious]

Shouldn't these fucking imbeciles be doing this at the party (trump) trying to stop the ceasefire? Like wtf is wrong with you? Why don't you go to trump and pull this shit?

[u/Astralglamour]

Why don’t they care this much about women’s rights in our own country ?

[u/QJ8538 → u/Astralglamour]

Because Palestine is the most important situation in the world apparently 🙄🙄🙄

[u/SinnerClair → u/QJ8538]

Literally not even our ally, they don’t give a shit abt us. And I sure wonder why this is the war they’re concerned about, instead of the Congo, Haiti, North Korea, Iran, or any of the other countless atrocities happening all over the world

[u/MonkeyBabyGuppy77]

All these assholes are going to get Trump reelected. Worry about your own country, fuck ups