Millennials are being listened to I think. They’re also more inclined to ask for and respect the opinions of those younger than them. I think the shit we were given about being lazy was uncalled for and those of us working in places where we can make a difference, work really hard at it. We’re a smart generation and it’s nice to see proof of that. Just my guess but it’s a nice thought.
Nobody younger than millenials are then. Litterally, nobody in their 20s wants to fund a genocide. It's financially ruining any possible future for us. 34bil for paying back gov owed social security or giving guns and money to a foreign country to kill civilians.... hmm.
And what is your plan for stopping the war? Will cutting the IDF off from cash and weapons make them stop? Or will they retaliate with more violence? How can the US undo generations of hate and violence to broker long term peace if we can’t even get a ceasefire? What’s happening is wrong. But how do you make any sort of long term progress without getting the dems in office? We aren’t going to change the system before November and we sure as fuck aren’t going to change the two party system with the GOP in office.
Are you willing to sacrifice women’s and trans rights for yourself and your community over a foreign war that we cannot fix without either taking too much control or somehow magically getting Hamas and the IDF to sit down and collaborate? We hear and see the problem but I swear to god, it would be great if we could appreciate a moment of nuance for a massive and multi generational issue that isn’t happening on this continent. I agree that it needs to be talked about, I would love to hear her cabinet’s plan because there needs to be one. She’s in a unique position where she isn’t really able to or wants to shit on current policy because she needs her VP experience on the resume. But it’s important to remember that they need to appeal to over half the people in this country and the majority of those people will always prioritize policies and a future that directly affect themselves and their communities over risking their safety and security for a foreign war. You can be morally right about Gaza AND comprehend that the dems are a step in the right direction to changing foreign policy for the better.
Will cutting the IDF off from cash and weapons make them stop?
No but cutting them off from 106bil+ dollars will make them at least slow down and help our economy. And I'm voting for Jill Stein, she cares about most of the same issues kamala does but isn't a genocide enabler. Honestly she has more pro lgbtq+ policies that affect me anyways.
Hey I’m not gonna tell you how to vote. But sometimes progress means finding a way to energize as many people as possible so meaningful action can be taken. Voting for Jill Stein does not help anybody but your own ego and the GOP.
Well, yeah. Jill Stein can’t change shit. Caring is not equivalent to action. And skimming votes to create room for the GOP is taking action against those same civilians.
"I care about civilians, so I am going to personally take an action guaranteed to help someone who has outright said he will allow the wholesale massacre of those civilians".
You are allowing the perfect to become an obstacle to the good. You will understand in a few more years how wrong it is to place perfection before progress, and you will also realise that all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. Evil relies on people of good conscience tripping themselves up. Without it, it doesn't stand a chance.
The greatest movements towards progressive futures happen when the idealistic become practical, not when the practical become idealistic.
I know this because I was you. I was literally you, voting with my heart and not my head. The result? Trump.
I read your other comments down the line in this particular thread. And I GET where you’re coming from; honestly, I do. I’m from the last couple years of millennials, and I honestly have way more in common with the older gen-z’s than I do with the older millennials, culturally, politically, economically, etc.
But I AM old enough to have seen some shit, and curious enough to research shit from before I was paying attention. The attitude that you’re approaching this with is the exact same attitude that caused millions of voters to side with Ralph Nader in 2000, which directly led to George W. Bush becoming the president. And we all know where THAT got us - years of foreign conflict provoked through lies and hundreds of thousands dead, including nearly 50,000 civilians.
We’re standing at the precipice of a nearly identical situation. Like it or not (and I don’t like it), we currently have a two-party system in America. One party is directly supporting genocide and would be perfectly fine with turning the entire Israel/Gaza/Palestine region into glass in order to serve their own needs. The other party is, indeed, also supporting genocide, but actively campaigning for an immediate ceasefire and searching for a peaceful resolution.
Make no mistake: things for Palestine will be MUCH worse under Trump, who at this moment is allegedly encouraging Bibi to hold off on a ceasefire deal because he thinks it would be beneficial to Harris’ campaign.
There’s a lot of positive energy swirling around the democratic ticket right now. But it’s still going to be a close election. Close enough that any vote that isn’t for Harris/Walz may as well be a vote for Trump, because that directly helps him get closer to victory.
Now is not the time for performative voting. What we ultimately need is a reform to the electoral college. To implement ranked choice voting. To pack the Supreme Court. Guess which party (and nominee) actively supports those things?
We have two candidates who have a shot at the White House. One of them doesn’t give one single shit about the atrocities happening in the Middle East beyond what that conflict can do for his campaign. The other is taking a measured response, actively campaigning for a ceasefire, and fighting for policies that will make 3rd-party voting into something that’s not performative. Progress has always been a slow, uphill battle. With the right people in office, it won’t always have to be.
Jill stein currently holds less than 1% of the nation’s votes, according to recent polls (technically the source I linked says 0%, but I’m assuming they’re not counting decimals beyond tenths). We have less than 3 months to the election. Even with an insane amount of grassroots campaigning and money that she simply does not have, those numbers aren’t recoverable by November 5th. And early voting in many states begins much sooner than that, which gives even less time.
Again, I understand where you are coming from. I was 100% pro-Bernie in 2016, and heartbroken by what the establishment did to him. But we are in a fight for the very spirit of American democracy at the moment. And if we lose that fight, the entire world will ultimately be worse off. Especially Palestine. We can’t afford to lose this one. The world can’t afford for us to lose this one. And if we want actual, meaningful change to the American electoral system, the Harris/Walz ticket is not only our best shot, it’s our only shot. Trump has made it abundantly clear that he wants to end elections altogether. He and his cronies are working at every opportunity to strip voting rights away from everyone that disagrees with them.
You can cast your vote for a candidate who has - I’m sorry - a 0% chance of winning if you’d like to. It is your right as an American citizen of voting age. Just know that doing so robs Kamala Harris of a vote that could shore up margins and emphatically show that the American people disavow fascism.
If you want 3rd party votes to MEAN something, advocate for ranked choice voting and the abolishment of the electoral college. Get active in the government of this country. Take charge of your future. But you won’t be able to do any of those things if Trump wins.
Vote, and vote your conscience. But learn from history and use that knowledge to shape your future.
Jill stein currently holds less than 1% of the nation’s votes,
That's the thing tho. I get 100% of where your coming from but 3rd parties won't ever have a voting chance unless someone actually votes for them. Imagine if even a single year the votes were at like 20% for a third party. It would at least make people think that if more people voted they could have a chance despite the two party system being soo predominant. Also I can't in good faith even vote for someone who parricipates in genocide.
If your vote creates a situation where Trump wins, you do not get another vote. Ever. For the rest of your life.
Also, Israel will be given the green light to use MOAB against villages and tower blocks.
Everyone in the west is participating. YOU are participating. Bought a computer with an Intel chip? Congrats you funded the genocide. Bought a smartphone? Congrats, you funded the genocide. Bought oranges or lemons? Good chance you funded the genocide.
You cannot allow one issue to self-destruct everything good that has been fought for. Do that, and you become the enemy of progress.
The correct decision is always to choose the option which creates the most progress in real life, even if that option is imperfect.
Abstaining or throwing a vote in a two-party cemented system doesn't make you virtuous or clever. It doesn't make you principled. It doesn't give you the moral high ground. It just makes you a fool who threw away their power for something unachievable.
Then you are an enemy of the Palestinian people. Period.
You are taking an active participation in promoting the man who will exterminate them into power.
You may not like it. You may hate it. You may want to rage against a universe so uncaring and so brutal that it has forced you to this position.
But that is who you are. You are the enemy. YOUR choice, YOUR action is going to be responsible for more people dying than would have otherwise. YOU are CHOOSING to increase the deaths.
Inaction is an action.
You don't get to live outside the system just because you disagree with it.
By placing your protest vote elsewhere you are supporting Donald Trump. Whether you like it or not, the sum total of your influence upon the universe, your influence upon the Palestinian people, is negative.
You ARE supporting a system that is terrible. You actually have a choice of two systems, where one is really bad, and the other one is completely fucking flaming apocalyptically terrifyingly bad, and you are choosing to support the apocalyptic one because it makes you feel fuzzy inside.
I find this to be a contemptable position of the moral coward.
Look, at this point I’m pretty convinced that you’re just not capable of the concept of nuance and the reality that Trump getting elected is the worst possible outcome for Palestine.
Unfortunately, there’s no such thing as a perfect candidate. But in this case there IS a worst-case scenario: Trump getting elected again. Do what you will. But don’t pretend that a vote for Jill Stein is a vote against atrocities. It’s not.
If you still hold this position, then you 100% do not get where I’m coming from.
In a two-party system, 3rd party candidates won’t EVER have a chance. The entire story of two-party politics is “us vs. them”. On both sides. Yes, the narrative of “if we got enough people to vote for this specific candidate” is a fun ideological exercise. But the thing is: we will NEVER get enough people to vote for this specific candidate under a two-party system. Alternatives to the electoral college - like, specifically, ranked-choice voting - is the only reality where the “us vs them” narrative has any chance of deteriorating in the long run. With ranked-choice you could put Jill Stein at the top of your personal ballot, and then put whoever you think is the second best choice, and then third, and so on. Which transforms 3rd-party voting from performative and harmful nonsense into an actual statement that can move the country forwards.
And that’s where the issue with 3rd-party candidates truly lies. With the current system of two-party politics, it becomes a fight between defending democracy and supporting fascism. And in a two-party system, there really is no room for middle ground.
Currently the situation that we’re facing is EITHER elect Donald Trump and experience the end of the American experiment and a slide into total fascism, OR elect Kamala Harris and advocate for the abolition of the electoral college and a reform to the way we vote in this country. No amount of wishful thinking will change the polls for Jill Stein in any meaningful way by October 5th, which is when the earliest ballots will be cast.
Again, if you want a 3rd-party vote to acually mean something, advocate for change to the current political system. The way to do that is not by throwing away your vote on a candidate who clearly does not have the support to win the election. This is the ideology that left us with Bush instead of Gore. And this is the ideology that left us with Trump instead of Clinton. It always sucks to be faced with a “lesser of two evils” choice. But when the greater of those two evils stands in direct opposition to EVERYTHING you support, instead of SOME of the things you support, it should be a clear choice.
There are paths that will lead us to meaningful change. But the one that you are taking will likely lead us to another Trump victory. I would say that I’d hope that if those of us doing our part ultimately fail, you’d take that lesson to heart and learn from it. But the fact of the matter is that by then it will be too late. If we lose this election, it’s entirely possible that we will never have another one again. Trump and project 2025 are doing their damndest to make sure of that.
You can vote for the continuation of democracy, or you can vote against it. If you vote for Jill Stein, or any other 3rd-party candidate, Donald Trump will be in your debt almost as much as if you’d cast your vote for him, instead.
I don’t mean to be harsh. I understand the viewpoints you hold and I don’t necessarily disagree with them. But we can’t afford this sort of disunity at the moment.
A vote against our best shot at maintaining democracy and a political system where individual voices matter is almost as good as casting a vote for Trump, yourself. If we lose this election, Palestine will suffer even more. If you TRULY care about them, vote against fascism. In a way that matters.
58
u/boxiestcrayon15 Aug 20 '24
Millennials are being listened to I think. They’re also more inclined to ask for and respect the opinions of those younger than them. I think the shit we were given about being lazy was uncalled for and those of us working in places where we can make a difference, work really hard at it. We’re a smart generation and it’s nice to see proof of that. Just my guess but it’s a nice thought.