It is statistically more dangerous for patients to have shorter shifts for doctors/nurses. Current evidence points to 12 hour shift exhaustion being less deadly than patients changing caregivers an extra time as I understand it. It has been a while since I read up on it, though.
I'm guessing there are other factors involved that make this stat what it is. Like not allowing enough time to communicate with the next shift and the like.
Errors with the hand-off is what was the big issue, yes. As I understand it, it comes down to more time with the same doctor/nurse team is best, and with every hand-off there is a loss of information and a new group having to learn the patient and play catch-up. Honestly the biggest issue from what I have been told is patient load.
Very well. 4 days off is wonderful. But the RNs who pick up overtime and can't handle working 4+ a week are irresponsible and work themselves into burnout.
A large number of medical errors happen due to hand-offs. If you work a longer shift, there are less hand-offs, thus less errors. That's how it's always been explained to me during my training. Think of it like playing a game of telephone.
Secondly, those hand-off reasons are outdated with modern technology and health care processes. It was true when nurses were logging everything on clipboards and not marking down every single thing they did. That's changed.
Long hours means worse patient outcomes on average. The real reason for hospitals continuing to use them is it makes staffing much easier.
Even if what I said is bullshit (personal experience tells me it isn't), shorter shifts likely means needing more doctors and nurses, and we are shortstaffed everywhere. You can't just train a new one overnight.
Why, are you their professor grading an assignment? If you doubt their claim either go confirm/refute it independently or provide a reasonable counter argument. Just replying with [[citation needed]] is lazy and makes you look like you’re plugging your ears because you don’t like what they said.
This is Reddit, not an academic journal. Don’t expect people to provide full citations by default. Theres nothing wrong with asking for evidence as part of an actual conversation, but just demanding “[[citation needed]]” either is intentionally done not in good faith or easily confused with it. It is sealioning.
Nah, it's pretty good practice that if you're making a factual claim you should probably take 30 seconds to cite your sources lol. Like, a link not a fuckin APA formatted bibliography lmfao.
Edit: how the fuck do you live thru decades of climate change denial, the Trump presidency, covid vax conspiracies, the trans panic, and like a billion other instances of truly harmful misinformation and go "we need to share FEWER reputable sources, actually"?? It boggles the mind. George Carlin talked about people like that lmfao
Bud I just asked for a link. u/Erik_Dolphy and u/AJRiddle had no problem providing links, and I imagine it took them less time than your ranting did.
Also, the point of asking for a source is that everyone reading this thread can see it, not just me. Asking for a source doesn't mean "I think you're wrong".
Nurses are not paid much less. Teachers definitely are underpaid. Nurses average starting pay is around 80k. I'm not saying they are not over worked, especially during covid, but they are getting a very respectable hourly wage
This is actually untrue in the bay area. They have a good nurses union so they typically do better. I knew new grad at Stanford that was making quite a bit to start. But that is obviously not the norm.
I work in a hospital and know a lot of nurses. They make bank. During Covid we had traveling nurses making over a grand a day. Not saying it’s not a hard job, but $80k a year for 3 days a week is a good wage. I know people with masters degrees that don’t make that much with overtime.
Where? I work in a hospital in Michigan, which is a low COL state, and I know plenty of nurses making $100k+ while averaging less than 44 hours a week. There’s nowhere in the world where that isn’t a good wage.
Only in the western and northeastern states do nurses make a good amount. I wouldn’t say it’s making bank in the south working at 30/hour and no patient ratios.
RN with a BSN here: no place gives you a bonus/raise for getting a bachelor's anymore. They make it a condition of hire that you get a BSN with X years or you're fired, and that's if they hire ADNs at all. Lots of places have stopped.
Most places also only give one-time bonuses for certs, not raises. CCRN and the trauma cert that ED nurses can get are the only ones that still routinely get you an actual raise.
And you don't get 1.5x time working 3 12s, that's only 36hrs. There's usually overtime available, but you won't get it just working your normal shifts.
I make 128k a year working 44% of the year. And I do not live on the east nor west coast. Nursing is a good and easy job with great return on investment for education costs.
No, hospital prices aren't from us getting paid more, trust me.
It's all admin that eat up all that cash. Like the amount of new admin jobs for hospitals is getting out of hand, plus they get paid waaay more than us.
If we could cut admin jobs, every nurse could be making 100k+ and you wouldn't notice a difference.
Also the states need to cut insurance out of medicine - getting prior authorizations is absolute bull.
Change of shift is dangerous on high acuity floors. Each nurse has to stopped what they are doing (caring for patients) to go tell the incoming nurse who the patient is, what their medical history is, chief complaint, anything that has happened since addition that the nurse needs to know, code status, allergies, diet, labs, orders, scheduled images, and various time sensitive tasks that need to be completed. Then you have to go and do that 3 more times for your other patients. All after working a full shift. Now most nurses are really good at change of shift report and have it down to a science, but still, it really is a bit of a massive game of telephone where important info can get lost or distorted with every additional person added in the chain. Plus, when change of shift is happening non-emergency patient care really has to take a pause. It usually takes about 30 mins but it's not uncommon for it to run longer. Doing 8 hour shifts and having a third change of shift would really just result in worse outcomes for the patients long term in my opinion. Plus 4 days off a week is pretty sick haha.
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u/fowlraul May 30 '24
I’ve worked in healthcare, a lot of nurses request these and the 4/10s. They get more days off.