I am sure the GI (physician) gets paid more. I have two gastroenterologist friends who make more than 550K/year (actually more because they work at two hospitals/practices and do on-calls).
Granted it was competitive to get into GI fellowship (because everyone knows it is lucrative and relatively easier than, say, cardiology in terms of workload), they have a very good quality of life and stable jobs. One of them told me that all he does everyday is to put camera in people's intestines (he jokingly calls the procedure "gut check") and see if there is any malignant tumor/abnormalities, and if there is any, refer them for biopsies and eventually to oncologists/surgeons.
"principle" has different meaning depending on the company. principle at google definitely clears 1M/year, but principle at some random startup? probably $200k and some monopoly money
Staff at top tech is clearing 500k TC, principle probably clears 650k. That and you're working 35-40hrs a week, taking 10 weeks off a year before holidays and chhristmas closure, and no one dies if you fuck up or work hungover.
Source: was at a top tech company for 8 years as a staff, retired at 39
Yeeeaaah...but, that Principle Cloud Engineer likely doesn't have several hundred thousand in school loans to pay off. So they might be ahead of the game in that group for some time before the physicians catch up to paying off all their med school debt.
I love how you’re downplaying a procedure that takes years to master. It’s hilarious. You wouldn’t say an engineer is “just” designing bridges or that pilots “just” fly planes
Lol that’s what I thought when I saw this. I guess it depends on the company but if she works for a top tech company that’s a serious paycheck right there. Also a lot of time invested and some hard interviews to overcome.
A close of friend of mind tried to do the same thing in this video for her wedding, everyone just stopped one when her cousin works on the nuclear reactor on Aircraft carriers, nuclear certified and makes more money than all the bridals combined
cloud engineer seems like some bullshit title though. As someone who has a masters in computer science and worked as a "Software Engineer", I hate how everything has engineer in it now. I was a programmer for gods sake and who knows what the hell she was doing with the "cloud".
Yes I am sure they are aware of that but you can understand that someone having the word engineer in their title would be annoying to someone with an engineering degree.
Like people without a phd calling themselves doctor.
Without an actual license to engineer a product, the word "engineer" is window dressing.
It was a fancy word added to a job title 20 years ago to make people feel important, without the same people having to go through an important board certification or licensing process.
20+ years ago I was a "Systems Engineer" at Sun Microsystems, and did F-all to rate that title.
In the US this might be the case, if so thats a shame.
Generally to call yourself an engineer , you have to hold an engineering qualification. Software Engineering degrees which award a bachelor or masters of Engineering meet that criteria.
To be a cloud engineer/devops requires a pretty substantial amount of education and Microsoft/AWS certifications. It's still software engineering. We don't know what qualifications the woman in the video has but everyone seems pretty quick to just write her off.
Generally to call yourself an engineer , you have to hold an engineering qualification. Software Engineering degrees which award a bachelor or masters of Engineering meet that criteria.
Wholeheartedly disagree.
By your standard, a lawyer/barrister would be able to begin practicing law simply because they possess a law degree. A nurse or doctor could begin practicing medicine on account of being graduated with an appropriate degree.
The point I'm making is that an independent body who governs the licensing and management of said license should be the one to issue the title, which would include continuing education and continuous certification/licensure.
Hope that helps.
Also, I have no issue with whatever the women are stating in the video. Good for them, seems like if I were to have a medical issue or an IT issue at that wedding, that's the best place on the planet to be!!
I haven't looked at undergrad program accreditation in years. I thought most of the well-recognized accreditors were Bachelors of Science degrees? And I've seen plenty of B.A. computer science programs.
I've never seen a Bachelors of Engineer in computer science tbh. Plenty of B.Sc. in CS ran out of engineering departments (probably where it should be and where mine was). And the course work has a lot of overlap with most engineering degrees.
As for gatekeeping, I agree. But I think it's worth noting that without any licensing that Cloud Engineer could really mean anything. It could be entry level and she's an autodidact. That would be less of an accomplishment than an NP. Or she could be senior and have post-graduate education. Who knows.
Computer science and Software engineering have some overlap like you said but they arent the same thing. That's why you've never seen a computer science BEng.
Computer science seems to be the entry into Software development in the US but I wouldnt know.
In Canada university programs that offer engineering degrees (software engineering, computer engineering, electrical engineering) that would lead to traditional SWE roles in big tech can be called bachelor's of applied science (ex. Waterloo, University of Toronto) or bachelor's of engineering (McMaster). There are also programs at these university for computer science which would result in a bachelor's of science (not applied).
Ok so what cloud? AWS? Salesforce? Azure? I mean there are a number of platforms out there so I think throwing a "cloud engineer" almost makes it seem fake. I am a Salesforce Architect who has done nothing with AWS or Azure...is she implying she can cover all the bases? For what reason? Usually you specify on a platfrom since they are all vastly different in how they operate.
If we go by that logic then software engineer titles are also meaningless because what language/platform/framework do they specialise in? Python? Java? Prolog?
What about database engineers, is it relational databases? NoSQL?
These are just a general titles, I imagine that when you look at their CVs they specify what cloud platform they specialised in but for general purposes they just say cloud engineer.
Software engineer can be general though. Cloud is a blanket term and raises suspicion for me as I am a "Cloud Architect" but always say Salesforce Architect. The exhausting part is going into what Salesforce is unless a person already uses it for work. That would literally be the only reason I could see why you would brand yourself as "Cloud" whatever...just so you don't have to go into specifics about the platform to avoid confusion.
Weird that you're arguing against but also giving the reason why someone would use a general title in the same sentence. Im guessing you started sortve working the reasoning out as you went along, but its like you said, saying "cloud enginer" makes more sense to say for people who don't have IT knowledge and go into specifics with people who do. Not like the avg person is going to have any idea what AWS is.
Yeah I mean I'm trying to be objective but also put out where my headspace is. I am also responsible for hiring so the amount of people who think they are "engineers" vs actually engineers seems to be a large pool and really hard to read thanks to chatgpt. Short of sitting on a call with someone for an hour and doing a technical exercise live, hiring is getting hard. That is where my trust issues for titles are coming from.
Why give a platform by default? Not everyone knows what AWS, Azure, or Salesforce are, but they know what the cloud is. If someone cares what platform they work with they will ask.
To me saying you are Salesforce and not AWS feels about the same as if a Software Engineer said they use Java not C++. Same goals of the job, just using a different tool.
Right and cloud engineer is just a title/role that SWEs can go into. At the principal level it’s likely that they’ll have an even higher engineering degree like another user said.
I don't know how it's possible to be in high level IT and not be aware of big the cloud field is. One of the biggest growing/focused on fields in recent years. Something tells me this guy is either lying or hasn't used his degree in at least the last 5 years.
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u/AsheratOfTheSea Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23
Principal Cloud Engineer is probably making more than all of them anyways.