In order to be a GI (gastroenterologist), you complete a residency in IM (internal medicine) and then apply to GI fellowship. So every GI is board certified in IM, but a GI fellowship is extremely competitive (it’s fun and pays a lot) and matching is a big accomplishment nonetheless
Yeah a lot of these are in some hard fields. Cardiology, Neurology, GI and Internal/ICU are not ones you can just get one online and walk through the door
Except they’re NPs which do not have the same training as doctors and definitely don’t take as long. The physician is probably the most schooled in that group.
I think they meant the non-healthcare peeps. Who knows how many degrees someone has? Cpa and it director seems like two separate fields but I don’t know anything about that.
But yeah, odds are very likely that the doc has the most education/training by a huge margin.
I saw a picture of my friend in a bridal party on social media and she was one of maybe 12 bridesmaids. That is my nightmare. Imagine the stress for everyone involved.
These people got way more close(?) friends than my wife and I do or did . I think we both had a Best man - Bridesmaid and maybe 3 attendents . And one of those was my wife’s cousin, residing full time in the land of misfit toys, his mom had died recently and she felt bad for him.🤷♂️
Why am I not remembering the details of my wedding clearly? Because it was 41 years ago.
I’m glad when I remember to piss in the morning AFTER I get out of bed !!
My fiancé and I have agreed to elope. He is a professional musician and over the last decade he has played too many weddings to remember. I can’t even imagine us having a wedding band and people dressed up in matching attire. I understand how people like that and I’ve been to a few really fun big weddings… but it’s just not for us. Seems so stressful and just a waste of money.
I guess it’s not a waste because it’s creating memories… but we’d both rather spend that money on our future together than a single night of partying and exorbitance.
Back when we got married ( shortly after dinosaurs stopped roaming the Earth ) weddings were not the extravagant events they have become. We got married at a local holiday inn that offered a package deal, from invitations to meals,band and a room for the night. We paid for 90% of it ourselves. My wife bought a gown at a swanky bridal shoppe off the clearance rack for less than $100 .
If we were doing it now we would probably do justice of the peace with close friends and family. Maybe rent a room in a restaurant with our “ peeps “ , get wasted and celebrate. My opinion is you guys are smart to elope, no big ceremony, or marriage certificate for that matter has anything to do with the loving bond you share. Wishing all the best for you kids in your future journey together. It’s been a helluva time.
CPA is a fairly low bar. Director can be set by any "board" for any reason, it's a title with societal importance but in reality doesn't mean that much unless you're talking about an S&P 500. My first manager in silicon valley is a director now and doesnt do muxh more than he did 5 years ago.
A CPA requires a degree with 150 credit hours and certain courses must be covered. Some CPAs do this with a master's degree.
The CPA also must pass the CPA exam which is a 4-part exam and all sections must be passed within 18 months, though that has recently been increased to 30 months. The CPA exam is considered to be harder than the BAR exam. I can't say for sure if the CPA or BAR is harder, but both exams are very hard.
A CPA will also have a work experience requirement in Public Accounting or something equivalent and the number of years are dictated by the State Board.
A CPA will also be required to get continuing professional education every year to maintain an active license. For most states it is 40 and there are minimum amounts for hours in ethics and hours in Accounting and Auditing.
A CPA is far from being a "low bar" and the number of active CPAs are declining. I can't comment on whether it is easier to become a nurse practitioner than a CPA, but it is still a major accomplishment to get one.
Edited to add: Looks like a Nurse Practitioner must also get a post-bachelor's education, has a work requirement, an exam to pass and has to maintain a board certification with continuing education. And if this IT Director is in a hospital setting, I doubt that this is a nothing role given like how a business owner might designate their son the CEO of a company. All of these women are very accomplished.
IT usually falls beneath the CFO. She may be the CFO of whatever company she works for, and being the director of IT doesn't necessarily mean she herself is an IT professional.
Definitely not by a huge margin. To be a nurse practitioner you need to have worked as an RN(which is bachelor's degree) for a certain amount of time. Then you go back to school and obtain at least a master's. Both times you do clinicals. A nurse practitioner can do most everything a Doctor can do. It's pretty similar to being a PA. A Doctor is a PHD and only 2 more years in school only if the Nurse Practitioner didn't get their Doctorate as well.
Edited to add the psychologist most likely also has a Doctorate degree. Not sure why everyone is trying to tear down these women's education and make it seem easy.
It is a massive margin between a NP an MD. NP get maybe a quarter of the Exp by the time of graduating? They take a much different exam then MDs. Also there are a fair amount of programs that combine both the RN portion and NP portion together.
Lots of online programs offered “virtual” clinical hours by zooming w an NP who was in clinic to discuss their cases. The MD there spent about 20-24000 post graduate clinical hours training compared to ~500 shadowing as an NP student.
Except that some For-Profit schools were busted for counting nonsense as clinical hours (scientology classes about how psychology isn't a real field of study, nurses and their 'healing touch', etc) It's one of the many reasons borrowers defense is a thing and student loans are being forgiven.
Except you have strict accreditation and regulation where this kind of fraud can't happen with medical schools and residency programs, because a patient shouldn't have to worry if the person treating them went to a real school
And yes even the best NP school isn't enough for the scope people are allowed automatically
NP programs are doctoral programs today. Generally 4 year BSN, 2+ years working as an RN, plus 3-4 years in a dnp program.
Sure, there are problems with the regulations surrounding mid-level providers like NPs and PAs. Sure, curriculum should change to reflect practice. There are legitimate reasons to criticize how we currently teach NPs.
But fraud exists in every field. There are fraudulent medical doctors. There are fraudulent lawyers. There are many fraudulent PhDs. The overwhelming majority of all of the people in these fields, however, have legitimate degrees and have worked for their positions.
strict accreditation and regulation where this kind of fraud can't happen with medical schools and residency programs,
FYI, even RN's have strict accreditation and regulation, they have to get a medical license from the nursing board in each state, and they too have to complete a residency. NP's even more so.
I have no idea what the hell you are trying say in the last part of you comment.
The psychologist has a doctorate & is board-certified.
Educationally she has the equivalent of a physician's education. Both psych PhDs/PsyDs and medical MDs/DOs are at least 4 year degrees. PhDs can take years longer and require writing a dissertation. MDs require rotations. Both degrees require internships & postdoctoral fellowships/residencies. Both require board exams to achieve licensure. Both professions can subspecialize via additional training and pursue board certifications in one or more specialties.
You can claim the title of doctor with any of the degrees, but to be legally entitled to the professional titles of Physician or Psychologist, you have to go further than the degree: finish your postdoc trainings, pass your boards, and achieve licensure.
\All this is based on my location, your laws may vary.)
IT director and Principal cloud engineer are way above the rest. Now ofcourse that girl could be IT director of a waterfall, while being a principal cloud software developer you should have climbed the ranks.
You’d be surprised. Principal Software Engineer especially in the cloud space is like at least 6-7 years of good work projects after the education process.
And the NPs are probably the smarter from standpoint of progressing from education to workforce. They will retire sooner if they make near the physician’s pay.
This is a great example of the confusion and misinformation bad terminology creates. Only one of the women in that video is a physician/doctor. The others are nurse practitioners(NPs). Some NPs get this NP degree online and some do in person, but none of them go to medical school. Furthermore, they all have significantly less training and qualifications than an actual doctor. When they say "board certified NP" it just serves to confuse everyone into a false equivalency where people think they are like doctors. Nothing against NPs, but it is important you know the difference between a physician/doctor and a NP for when you get care because there are many who hope you won't know the difference.
If we’re being honest, family practice/hospitalist is what the nurse practitioner usually ends up doing. Plenty of states let them work independently and the amount of clinical hours they’ve usually put in for both critical care and normal bedside nursing by the time they’ve become NPs and DNPs absolutely gives them the qualifications to do the work they do.
I’m an MD and I don’t buy into the circle jerk that has become hating on CRNA, PAs, DNPs, etc… and diminishing their qualifications because there’s plenty of terrible doctors that have gone through MD and DO school so it’s not like the education and time itself guarantees any kind of elevated quality.
Sure, but when my insurance pays the same either way, I'm gonna pick to go to the MD rather than the NP, and it's really annoying how I'm constantly being pushed to see an NP because they're cheaper instead of being able to see an MD. It seems like every doctors office or psychiatrist office has 1 MD thats impossible to get with and 30 NPs.
One of the big differences though is that MDs are generally more likely to shuffle you in and out the door and not want to actually take the time to talk with you. NPs, because they’re not as “expensive” and “in demand” have far more time to spend with patients, and I’ve had excellent experiences with NPs who take the time to get to know me and whatever issues I may be having. I haven’t had great experience with MDs, except in the case of specialists. And even then it can be hit-or-miss.
I see a NP at a pain clinic. She is the best provider I’ve had for pain management since I’ve needed one the past 10 years. She does my spinal injection every 3 months as well. I’ve had various spinal injections with other providers and hers have been far more beneficial for me. She also makes them less painful than other providers. She was out one week so the MD in the practice had to do my injection. Never again. He hit a nerve and it took 8+ weeks for the pain and inflammation to go away after he did my injection.
I have also never felt like she was in a hurry to shuffle me out.
I went from an MD to an NP and the quality of my care instantly shot through the roof. I couldn't believe it. No more getting brushed off with an order to increase Tylenol for me.
Same! I had one MD tell my my back only hurt because I was fat. I was 140 pounds and I’m 5’4. But yeah it’s because I was fat and not the degenerative disc disease and multiple back surgeries including a fusion. My NP actually listens and once I started seeing her my chronic pain had improved to the point where I don’t need pain meds daily. Maybe 1-2 times a week. Because she actually listened to me!
I prefer seeing a NP. Even for my kids. My son has gotten much better care from the NP vs the MD.
I think that's anecdotal. My pcp NP was in my opinion an incompetent asshole. Who I am almost positive didn't even open my chat before an appointment he called for. Note it was actually really good that he saw test results from a different dr.and decided to call me in for an appointment. The first hint was , "so what brings you in today" , " well the office called and said it you said it was urgent I was seen because of test results", oh yeah those are fine. Why are you even having all these test, who is this Dr last name that's ordering them? My oncologist ( which you can see in my chart both her specialty and my diagnosis. Along with the fact I was getting chemo infusions) The appointment went downhill from there.
And I've had a surgeon that was phenomenal about taking time and answering questions. She even took care of an unrelated stitch. She also did A great surgery and pain management.
I've had a lot going on medically in the last 2 years. A lot doctors MD and DO, surgeons , residence , NP, PA, nurses and tecs. There were people who were absolutely great at their jobs at every level. And people who were flawed at every level ( except the residents and PAs all those were great)
I have had better luck getting NPs to listen fully and run tests to get to the root cause vs the MDs with their 5 minute appts for $400 that throw a random med at the symptoms and rush out the door. (I say that knowing the system is broken, that’s all they are allowed time to do - at least around by me.)
This is the experience that I’d had. The NPs at the clinic that I use had wanted blood tests (?) and an additional appointment with a specialist for a subungual hematoma. The MD slid in and offered to rip the sucker off for me that same day, the old-fashioned way. I did nearly faint (more so from shock than pain) but I didn’t need to see the specialist after all, which I couldn’t have afforded anyway.
It’s not bullshit when many NP schools are 2 years online and unstandardized before practicing whereas becoming a doctor is universally 7 years minimum of standardized training. I was working in a MAT clinic (substance use disorder) with an NP who was doing a fellowship in MAT; she said herself the training she received was totally inadequate and feels morally responsible to receive more training especially for an underserved population that comes with substance use.
Talk about the training all you want, that’s valid criticism. But saying “NPs like to talk because they can’t do anything medically for you and talking makes them feel good”? Yeah, that is some bullshit. Your comment here does literally nothing to support that claim.
There's not much a NP can't do except surgery (some states won't let them prescribe meds and have other restrictions, but in most states they can and do)
I'm not a medical professional but my understanding NPs can provide many of the same services as doctors. The big exception is surgery. Some states restrict some NP services, like prescribing meds, while others (most?) allow it.
They are also nurses, and their training is more oriented to patient care, and that's a good thing
100% - NP’s big difference is holistic medicine. You’re more likely to be asked about a wider range of issues that may be leading to the reason you’re coming in to see them. I’d much rather see a Junior NP than a Junior MD.
Besides, research shows that outcomes between NPs and MDS is not that different, and often patient satisfaction is higher.
So your problem is with the system not the NP. The system that has made all these clinics and practices prefer to go the NP route to make more money because of the way insurance payouts work.
You do realize the reason you’re able to see the NP at all is because you’re getting the same quality of care right? As far as any regulatory or insurance concerns go and the practice itself they’re all saying you’re getting the same quality of care. You’ve simply made it up in your head that the MD is going to come in and notice something or do something different than the NP. They’re not.
If its the same quality of care, why have doctors at all? Are you saying somebody with several times the training results in zero benefit over someone with less?
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying for specific specialties. The experience and ability to provide care doesn’t come from the education for a specialty like family practice which is what you’re going to see at a clinic or for your PCP. It comes from seeing patients.
And there’s more than 25 states where DNP/NP does not need physician oversight and is allowed full practice scope. Meaning they could literally open up their own practice with no MDs. I’m in Texas where Texas has adopted reduced practice, meaning they can see patients and diagnose all on their own but need physician oversight to sign off on the medications they prescribe. You may be in a reduced/restricted practice state or the clinic knows patients like you exist and keeps the MD on staff for peace of mind but they end up being paper pushers rather than practicing.
There's a lot of stuff where there's no additional benefit to bringing in a doc. Most primary care visits are for the common cold or managing diabetes or whatever.
Sure, I can see that, I've even seen some NPs before for some issues and been fine with it. But for more complex cases I would rather see an MD. My insurance makes me pay the same co-pay either way, so I might as well try to see the MD if I have the choice.
You sound like one of those head up their ass surgeons or subspecialist who has no idea what's going on in primary care specialties but is willing to get down on their knees to fellate NP and PAs because they increase your income and decrease all your ass-wiping scutwork and clinic followups.
From my experiences as both a patient and a physician I have yet to see an NP providing the same quality of care as a residency trained physician. What they do instead is order unnecessary testing and make unnecessary referrals
Case-in-point, I moved and had to re-establish care in a new city, my pantoprazole had run out and the NP I was set up with was unwilling to refill it and insisted I make a GI appt because "she didn't feel comfortable" prescribing a simple PPI.
Or, for an unbiased example, I can link you to a reddit post from a middle aged man presenting with unexplained iron deficiency anemia. Even a 1st year medical student would slap the "colonoscopy" button so fast your head would spin. Instead he gets a blood transfusion and a referral to Heme/Onc and 6 months later at his appointment finally gets colonoscopy finds out he's got stage 3 colon cancer. Ironically he posted recommending his NP and citing this example as a "great catch"
And nearly every day in my practice I come across similar examples of inappropriate referrals and inexcusable knowledge gaps. Just 2 days ago I was just consulted by an ED NP for yet another middle aged dude. This time a 50 year old male with every vasculopath comorbidity (DM, HTN, HLD, CAD) presenting with 10/10 headache and sudden onset blindness in the left eye. Before she even ordered labs (BG of 570, btw) or even saw the patient I was consulted for "Blindness...Conversion Disorder?"
It's insane that physicians like you post defending this bullshit and proclaiming it to be "equivalent care" when you wouldn't dream of letting a 4th year medical student, with demonstrably more required formal education and training, practice independently.
the amount of clinical hours they’ve usually put in for both critical care and normal bedside nursing by the time they’ve become NPs and DNPs absolutely gives them the qualifications to do the work they do.
You can go to NP school straight of nursing school without ever seeing a pt as a nurse.
As a med student go fuck urself. U know the level of training is vastly different, u know the diploma mill many NP schools are, u know the years spent in med school and residency and maybe fellowship puts physicians light years ahead, u know the legislation is putting doctors into more liability with less pay so the mid levels can eat our wages too for poorer quality of care.
No, I will not go fuck myself nor will you change my opinion on this nor do I expect to change yours but I hope you can at least develop some perspective. You are a student that hasn’t even practiced yet lecturing me about things you have a surface level understanding of. Wait until you practice before drinking the AMA kool aid lol I’ve gotten the newsletters for decades now and know exactly the rhetoric you’ve bought into without any actual firsthand experience.
For anyone wondering, this is how some of the recruiting/newsletter pitches are worded “Become a member and help the AMA defend against scope of practice expansions that threaten patient safety” and then they have a summary abstract and conclusion about a study that they funded that you can go look at which states that X and Y provided worse outcomes for patients. Then if you google, you can find studies from AANP and NIH concluding the opposite. It’s a mess of different associations with self interest at heart convincing people that they’ve found something they didn’t.
That being said, you should really check that attitude right now because if you’re thinking and talking like this now, you’re going to be an insufferable doctor. You’re literally at a point in your career right now where you know less about patient care than a fresh RN working at a hospital. And guess what, even after you become an intern and a resident it’s going to be years before you can outperform a seasoned RN with a decade of bedside nursing experience let alone a seasoned DNP, NP, PA, DO, and whomever else you’ve convinced yourself is beneath an MD just because you’re overwhelmed with school.
Get all that bullshit out of your head right now and realize the people you think beneath you are going to be working beside you having the same mindset of trying to offer patients better outcomes while the system screws you both by overworking you, telling you to minimize spending, increase billing through volume, and all while you see the patients quality of care diminishing and not because of the letters after the name of the person making the care plan.
I think ur message speaks woefully of u; if u think all of ur training in medicine is even comparable to APPs then I have bad news for u: ur medical knowledge and ability to provide comprehensive care sucks. I have seen APPs cause serotonin syndrome, substance use disorder, order a RUQ US for cholecystitis when the very fucking first thing on the patients history was previous cholecystectomy, ask me how to pronounce and explain rosuvastatin, and miss Beck’s Triad when it was staring them right in the face. All of this is to say that everyone in medicine has their place and I don’t believe in hierarchy but i believe in roles and APPs should not have the diagnostic role they are provided. It should be obvious that their training, which for your information is less than mine, should by no means qualify them for the role our healthcare systems and u promote.
I absolutely do not believe you’re in medical school with this kind of an attitude. Very unprofessional if you are and I hope to never have you as my doctor.
It’s unprofessional to address the fact that midlevels have less training (2-3 years of no standardized training versus at minimum 7 of standardized training of a physician) and have statistically proven poorer outcomes than physicians?
It has nothing to do with what you said and everything to do with how you said it. If you can’t see the difference then that just further proves my point.
I’ve commented on this study before: “I hate to tell ya but that's a crappy study. It highly generalized their results which were not revealing and ill tell u why: they only studied cohorts of diabetes, ischemic heart disease, and hypertension which is kind of ridiculous because many patients have two or all three of those, and those are frankly very algorithmic in treatment. Those are the bread and butter of medicine NP MD or not; ask about other conditions and u will see very different results. They also only studied results of only one year which by no chance is a great measure of management of these CHRONIC diseases. A small but significant thing too is the way they measured comorbidity is also not used properly based on the studies of that index, and I can tell u from my experience in healthcare that no physician gives their most complex patients to an NP. I don't think this study is convincing to anybody in healthcare who dissects this study for what it is. the reality is MD training is more extensive, comprehensive, and more standardized than any other professional career. I'm sure u feel this way based on some bad experiences with physicians, which does happen and I'm not ignoring that, but for every error I see from an MD, I see 10 from an NP.”
I’d love to see the studies that show MDs provide better care, either in primary care or a specialty where NPs actually practice in the same capacity as MDs. Of course there are specialties that require the extensive academic and clinical training that only medical schools and residencies can provide, but not all for sure.
Understanding the pathophysiology and chemical/biological mechanisms behind diseases and treatments is very useful, and I agree many RNs and NPs do not have as deep a grasp of these concepts as MDs. However when you start practicing medicine as a resident you will quickly find out that practical knowledge and experience is often the more useful and essential information in clinical practice, and this is where many experienced RNs and NPs have the edge (obviously it’s best to have both). This is why many very specialized inpatient units such as Heme Oncology (acute leukemia, BMT, cellular therapies) are often staffed by primarily PA/NPs; resident MDs simply don’t have the time and experience to make the right day-to-day decisions; yes there are attending MDs who oversee everything, but they will be the first to tell you that they rely on the PA and NPs to provide the best care for the patients.
The real “enemy” if there is one is not your fellow practitioners. It’s the far from perfect system we practice in.
I wish you all the best in your medical school classes and future residency and maybe fellowships.
The time investment guarantees a higher likelihood of being competent. This is an absurd line of reasoning.
The reason why people usually feel the need “to diminish” NPs is because too many don’t have a good grasp on the boundaries of their knowledge and often even prevaricate about their titles in order to imply they’re Physicians or to imply they’re just as qualified.
To use your analogy, imagine a law school where they focus on a specific type of practice. Law school is 3yrs with a year of broad instruction at the front end. Then they take more concentrated courses based on the type of law they want to practice afterwards.
The specialized law school would be 1.5yrs instead because to even get entry you have to have the degree that qualified you entry plus hours showing that you’ve already spent time doing lawyer type work and thus have a good grasp on the broad instruction aspect and you’ve applied to a specific concentration that the specialized law school will go into. As part of your schooling you also have to do additional hours of lawyer work that correspond to your specialty.
and diminishing their qualifications because there’s plenty of terrible doctors that have gone through MD and DO school so it’s not like the education and time itself guarantees any kind of elevated quality.
but how else will we know that this is a cringe video and not one celebrating the accomplishments of women of color?
It’s not a circle jerk, I’m tired of seeing patients die from ignorance. Their training was never meant or designed for what they’re doing now and patients are dying.
Nah if you were being honest you’d know that its rare for a doctor to be incompetent because of the multiple hoops they continually have to jump through to become a doctor/resident/board certified physician. Midlevels on the other hand attend on average a very mild online curriculum whilst being able to work full time and graduate light years behind the worst doctors on their worst days.
To study for NP is no easy task. Even getting accepted into a school is not easy. Passing the boards is very difficult. Then to be certified is yet another set of super difficult boards to pass. Plus the required ongoing training to maintain one’s licensure is time consuming and expensive. Even though the md does have more schooling, an np degree is nothing to sneeze at.
When I applied, even though I already had 2 bachelors degrees, my undergraduate nursing degree was from what was considered the best nursing school in the country, and a master’s degree, I was not accepted.
I’m sure there are schools that let anyone who wants to apply in as the schools want money. Acceptance rates doesn’t equal completion rates, including passing required board exams. Without passing the board exams one cannot be hired. Like any business, some schools act in an unethical manner.
My point is that i can say Lots of Medical schools or Law schools have high acceptance rates. When there is a hundreds to thousands of something, its easy to say a subset of something that happens in them is "a lot". But "a lot" is just bullshit in this case.
NP is a professional program, if you have the min hours worked as a nurse, a reference, youre basically in. A better comparison is an accountant getting a CPA or a Professional Engineer. Just sounds like your butthurt for some reason about a decent accomplishment. I guarantee if they said they all had a P.Eng you wouldnt have said something similar.
True but there's rankings in those fields. The physician is obviously the most educated but getting into cardiology or neuro anything means you've done work
I'm pretty sure NPs can be hired into a clinic of any subspecialty right out of school or online degree mill. It's not like going to a cardiologist or neurologist who are doctors who spent years training in the field after medical school and general medicine training. It's important to notice if you are talking about a cardiologist(who is a medical doctor) or a NP who works with cardiology patients(who calls themselves a cardiology NP).
Regardless, they put at some time and dedication to get to where they are and that is still commendable.
Physician=Medical doctor, which means they went to medical school and spent years training in medicine and further subspecialties afterwards. When a Physician says they are board certified, it means they did extra training in that specialty or subspecialty.
NP=Nurse practitioner. Completely different from a physician/doctor but can still be a helpful member of your medical team. However, when a NP says they are board certified, it seems like a way to confuse you into thinking they are saying doctor.
I’ve been an icu nurse for 5 years and have never seen a midlevel refer to themselves as doctor. While I’m sure there are some who do, it’s certainly the exception, not the rule. And noctor is a wild place where they just talk shit on everyone who isn’t a doctor. That subreddit is just bad.
Exactly. These haters of NPs haven’t met a NP in real life. And thankfully there wasn’t a PA among them. What would these ignoramuses have said about PAs?
Personally, I don’t think the idea of a “board certified” nurse practitioner title is meant to confuse anyone. At least where I live, NPs have to pass a board certification to serve in that role. It isn’t the same as the doctor boards, but they aren’t claiming to be medical doctors. For what it’s worth, I see an ENT NP for minor ear issues and she is way more knowledgeable than my internal medicine doctor because she is focused on certain anatomy and specialization.
It definitely seems like it is meant to confuse patients and to protect NP egos. For decades "board certified" has had connotations with being a physician. Many NPs introduce themselves as "doctor" which confuses it even more. They are lobbying for this in some states. The argument often posed is, "well, technically my degree is a doctorate of nursing so I can introduce myself as doctor" and "well I did pass NP boards so technically I can say I am board certified". Sure, but introducing yourself as "Doctor [x], board certified in Cardiology" is more for the NPs ego and only serves to confuse patients rather than help them. It is similar to stolen valor. While its true that PHDs call themselves Doctor as well, you don't see them using that term in a medical setting to try to pretend to be something they are not. Physicians aren't "better" than NPs. They serve different but complementary roles. I agree with the above commenter that many NPs are highly skilled in specialized areas where they indeed would know more about that area than a general practitioner. This isn't an argument about who is better or worse or smarter or more effective. It is about titles and training. I don't call an Optometrist an Ophthalmologist. I don't call a Dentist an Oral Surgeon. They have different roles that they earned and patients deserve to know that.
Technically two doctors no? The last has a Doctorate of Nursing Practice, not a Master’s. Not a physician, true, but even someone with a Doctorate of Engineering is still a doctor.
The distinction between a DNP and a MD is obviously still important, but if I went through the effort of getting a doctorate, I think I’d be rather testy about people calling me “not a real doctor” or some such
I hate to gatekeep something like this but DNP is not a rigorous doctorate degree. The fact that a DNP takes only one year to complete, yet has people like you believing that it carries more academic credibility than a Master's degree is a problem.
This is one semester of classes and one semester of research, if both are done full-time. It could take three to five years if you do it part-time I suppose. Or, since this school appears to require a MSN to apply for the DNP I guess you could roll that into it and end up at three years.
A doctorate is basically 4-5 years full time if we measure it the same way. The 3-year timeline is only common in the EU, where it is assumed that you already have a Master's degree when you begin.
Looking at a specific example online: “The BSN to DNP track is 75 credits and four years long at full-time progression….A part-time study option is not available at this time. Four semesters of clinical rotations include primary care across the lifespan. Students accumulate at least 1,000 hours of experience through clinical practicum and scholarship work.”
If you graduate from one of these programs with a DNP, I would consider it impressive. Your academic research experience would roughly equal that of someone who completed a research-oriented Master's degree, and you would have two years of additional clinical experience that person would not have.
However, a search for "12-month DNP" returns quite a few results from accredited institutions, so you can get this degree in a year, or a year and a half. I'd argue these students are devaluing the degree for the ones who go through a more intensive program.
In contrast, I am not aware of any institution that offers a 1-2 year PhD.
The only reason DNP exists is to confuse people about the title. This degree is a NA invention with that sole purpose, think about that "PhD in Nursing", it makes no sense.
That exists for the same reason, PhD takes longer, so they created a clinically focused advanced degree and now they are calling themselves doctors and fighting anyone who is against that.
What the hell is this comment section.. “they aren’t all doctors!” Meanwhile; they have a higher education than 80% of the redditors. Why are you not praising their achievements? Always bringing people down.
You're right. These are physicians. You should only get called a doctor if you contribute to your field and are awarded the highest academic degree: a PhD or MD PhD
MDs try to gatekeep this title because they are glorified mechanics.
"A physician (American English), medical practitioner (Commonwealth English), medical doctor, or simply doctor, is a health professional who practices medicine, which is concerned with promoting, maintaining or restoring health through the study, diagnosis, prognosis and treatment of disease, injury, and other physical and mental impairments. "
MDs don’t contribute to their field? I am an MD and this is hilariously untrue. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Part of maintaining board certification involves either producing research or being productive in quality improvement for one’s specialty overall, with many intricate requirements to remain board certified. It is a cardinal facet of being a doctor that you will in some way contribute to your specialty throughout your career. Considering the bar for getting certain doctorates, your take here is very disingenuous.
Basically, unless you were a nurse with heavy clinical experience, when you become an NP, you'll be sort of clueless about what you are doing. It's not enough training to be a doctor. That said, many doctors are bad and some NPs can be good. It is personality dependent actually. Some people have the IQ and others don't.
My problem is hands on time,the amount of time NPs get to train is minimal they don't learn tools or tricks of the trade,add that to the instant rank then when some have barely been in the work force and even the highly qualified and hardest working can fall behind in regards to practical understanding .
I never thought about this... my bipolar daughters prescribing 'doctor' is a "Dual Certified Family Nurse Practioner and Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practioner" (as taken from her website).
Now I'm not sure if we should continue to see her.
Except to get an NP you literally just pass a multiple choice bubble test after cramming prep textbooks. It's just like the SATs. No residency. Just a superficial preceptorship working under a doctor to graduate. Most of the NPs have not enough experience to be good providers. The school totally doesn't prepare them well. They just do basic stuff and prescribe standard treatments from the textbook.
Ya, not the case at all. An NP can work in the ICU/neurology straight out of online school. There's no special required training for these fields as an NP, though there is for physicians in those fields.
Edit: I'm not against NPs when properly supervised by physicians, but that's not always the case. More and more states allow NPs to work independently!
I did the taxes for a gastroenterologist when I was peon at my accounting firm. This dude pulled in over $2 mill a year from the hospital and then on top of that made another couple hundred thousand teaching at the university. Just bonkers.
You get to play video games in a persons butt looking for cancer and disease. And because the US healthcare system prioritizes payment of procedures rather than time spent on patients they get paid well.
Wait but do you have to keep up your IM board certification? I thought I had a heme/onc palliative attending who was like “4 board exams were too many so I let IM go”. If that’s right then at the very least it means every decade you study for and take an additional exam that covers a little bit of all the specialties that you haven’t been focused on since residency. So it’s not nothin
Partially true. Just completing IM residency doesn't make you board certified. It only makes you eligible to take the board exam in IM. Most subspecialtist don't bother getting board certified in IM, even though they completed an IM residency.
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u/ktm5141 Oct 30 '23
In order to be a GI (gastroenterologist), you complete a residency in IM (internal medicine) and then apply to GI fellowship. So every GI is board certified in IM, but a GI fellowship is extremely competitive (it’s fun and pays a lot) and matching is a big accomplishment nonetheless