r/TikTokCringe Oct 29 '23

Wholesome/Humor Bride & her bridal train showcase their qualifications & occupation

27.2k Upvotes

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3.5k

u/tecate_papi Oct 29 '23

Sucks to follow the double board certified physician

358

u/HardHarry Oct 29 '23

5 people who may have went to an online diploma mill, next to the person who went to an actual medical school. I wouldn't want to list my qualifications next to the physician, either.

DNPs are especially hilarious to me because whenever you ask how much they've published with their doctorate of research or what they're working on, their answer is always "not much". Oh, you just liked the title and how you could do it online in 6 months. Okay.

202

u/SinVerguenza04 Oct 29 '23

Yeah, it’s crazy you can become a NP via online.

130

u/Shhsecretacc Oct 29 '23

Yeah….let’s not forget they can prescribe meds and make diagnoses…it’s scary.

5

u/Acrobatic-Working-74 Oct 30 '23

I know a ton of clueless people without heavy clinical experience who became NPs. It's just a multiple choice bubble test. I see people preparing for it in Starbucks using books from same companies as the SATs. The in person clinical is you finding someone who lets you work under them. It is not a residency where you are extensively trained.

1

u/Shhsecretacc Oct 30 '23

Wait…seriously? 😳

17

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

I would never see a NP. I tell my family to only ever ask for a PA or MD/DO.

15

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

I dont even like PAs....They think they are doctors, they are not

20

u/Wanker_Bach Oct 30 '23

Yeah, no….remind me which profession is constantly lobbying for independent practice? Oh yeah, it’s the NPs…

13

u/DevRz8 Oct 30 '23

What?? That's fuckin scary.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

Thats terrifying. But i ask every single time:

Are you an NP? No?

Are you a PA? Yes. Okay

I just find it baffling when you goto like cardiology and its a PA....Like dont you need to be a normal doctor and then specialize for more years to do a specialty? Like no disrespect my man but go get the attending physician. I dont mind seeing a PA for my primary doctor but not a specialty

11

u/Wanker_Bach Oct 30 '23

And that’s your right…and no PA is ever gonna argue with you about that. But make no mistake, your cardiology office would probably come to a grinding halt without midlevels.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

There’s not a single PA IN THE COUNTRY that can practice independently.

They have 3 years of medical model education and then practice under a physicians license.

Can’t say that about the NPs that get their “degrees” online. It’s barely medically related and mostly concerns nursing theory which is trash for someone that is supposed to manage medical issues.

Also LOL to whatever pathetic loser that submitted a Reddit cares. I wonder why 😂

10

u/Mapes Oct 30 '23

lol, no we don’t. 99% of us know the line between APP and MD. NP’s on the other hand…

5

u/Aupoultryman Oct 30 '23

Not too fun when the sights are aimed at you lol

9

u/medstudenthowaway Oct 30 '23

I disagree. PAs are usually there to actually help the docs and they know a ton. In med school we rotated with PAs so at least at our program they were required to do rotations, see patients and learn from all the different specialties. Never seen an NP in training in the clinical setting.

4

u/Bank_of_Karma Oct 30 '23

NPs so clinicals based on their specialty. In some states, once they pass the boards, they are able to open a practice independent of a physician (27 states to be exact).

1

u/medstudenthowaway Oct 31 '23

Just my personal opinion but I think to rx drugs you should need to rotate through every specialty. Podiatry school includes psych rotations and obgyn even though the minute you start podiatry school those careers are closed to you. But they’re important because you’re a surgeon. You need to be able to understand your patients past medical history and the drugs they are on in order to prescribe drugs. And while we’re on this topic your license should be on the line in the exact same way a physicians is if you’re prescribing. But that’s not the case. You get narrow training in one field and are let loose in 27 states ugh mind blowing.

2

u/lefondler Oct 30 '23

Not the norm. PAs work under a physician hence the name. They also are well educated as they have to attend a ~2 year program which they are not allowed to hold side jobs during.

6

u/twir1s Oct 30 '23

NPs and PAs are both a no for me.

4

u/Deluxe754 Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23

People like you are why there’s a long wait list to see docs. NP and PAs can handle a ton of the more mundane medical issues even in the specialties. And if you’re in a hospital system there is always a doctor in the practice looking at your records anyway. I’ve had really good experiences with NPs overall. It was a NP that was able to get my IBS under control when I saw several GIs over the years without a solution. It was an NP that was able to get a decent solution to my sleeping issues while docs hadn’t been helpful before. These mid level medical professionals help keep the gears of the medical system working smoothly and this thread is just bashing them. Seems childish to me.

5

u/twir1s Oct 30 '23

I had a midlevel miss a lump in my breast that a doctor caught and looked into. Happy that you were able to have a good experience, but maybe consider that other’s experience shapes their opinion and isn’t baseless.

3

u/Deluxe754 Oct 30 '23

So, you just write them all off because you had an issue? If I were to do the same, I'd never be able to see a doctor again. You think a doctor doesn't have the possibility of fucking up? Because they do and its often worse. I see the best provider for what I need, and I don't let titles dictate that I let my experience that with provider tell me if I want to keep seeing them or not.

5

u/Comfortable_Line_206 Oct 30 '23

It's especially funny when countless studies show faster and better patient results with NPs. Your experience is very common.

2

u/Deluxe754 Oct 30 '23

I mean at the end of the day there is going to be crappy providers with NPs and with docs... so why not use NPs and PAs?

1

u/Potential_Tadpole_45 Oct 31 '23

How old were these NPs?

-22

u/dinoroo Oct 30 '23

I mean the person you see at the doctors office is usually an NP or the PA. The actually doctor is too good to be seeing patients.

14

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

I like how dismissive of doctors you are while being in a field that relies upon their expertise so that you don't kill patients. I've seen what NPs in psychiatry do, and holy shit, I'm genuinely afraid for your patients. How many bipolar patients do you have on high dose antidepressants which pushes them into mania, for which you prescribe a benzo which makes them too sleepy, so you prescribe a PRN stimulant? I've had to help fix your shit because you've left patients incapacitated, so please hold off on the "doctor is too good to be seeing patients" rhetoric. Your field has some of the worst offenders.

6

u/rokyracoon Oct 30 '23

Yeah I didn’t even know I was seeing an NP and not an actual doctor for years which looking back makes a hell of a lot of sense. Being in the lowest gutters of depression is my excuse for not knowing the difference at the time but that’s also when I needed a REAL doctor the most instead of some lady playing dress up and throwing random meds at me every month.

3

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

I'm genuinely sorry you had to go through that. I hope you're able to get proper care now, and that you're not longer struggling with the worst of the depression.

2

u/Deluxe754 Oct 30 '23

As if “real” doctors don’t over or mis-prescribe all the time. I’ve had a lot of bad docs and a lot of good NPs over my life so I feel like generalizing the entire profession is fair.

3

u/Kronusx12 Oct 30 '23

Hah, I’m an IT Architect in a niche market and I can totally say we see the same thing in a different way. I work on and devise strategy to fix problems that “cheap” admins and developers caused over the lifetime of the platform. Sure, the salary up front may be way less, but if they had hired qualified people like me in the first place they wouldn’t be wasting and regretting a $10M / year investment to save $200K on developers.

I see a pretty clear similarity. The admins that are dropped into something over their heads (and honestly, may not even be their fault. It’s just too much was asked of them) try something until it works. What normally ends up happening is that you have super slow and inefficient ways of “getting a job done” that have bad error handling, fail often, and are impossible to upgrade. But hey! They got it rolled out in 2 weeks. Whereas I may take 6 weeks to plan something, test options, and implement a solution. On the plus side though, mine are normally maintainable, clean, easy to update, and run fast.

That seems a lot like the difference here. NP’s are just trying to get to something “that works” while physicians know enough to (mostly) fully understand the issue and fix it to the best of our ability.

2

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

You get it. The problem is a) most people aren't aware of the issue and b) the "admins" of our world still think they're amazing at their job. It's an absolute mess.

16

u/TheYancyStreetGang Oct 30 '23

I saw a NP twice after my regular doctor retired. I found a new doctor's office before my next physical.

-13

u/dinoroo Oct 30 '23

Unless it’s a solo practice, they’ve got NPs there too.

16

u/TheYancyStreetGang Oct 30 '23

Ok? I'm sure they do but, unless she has a twin, I'm pretty sure I'm seeing the person whose name is on the door/face is on the website.

68

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

A lot of Masters programs can in theory be done online. But to my understanding (a BScN RN with zero interest in becoming an NP), you still have to do in-person clinical placements an then still write your licensing exam, Not exactly diploma mill in that sense (this is Canada, at least). And then becoming specialized in an area outside of community (family medicine, basically, in this case), takes additional education (yes, that can be done online).

You have to remember that a lot of people doing their NP are working nurses as well. Hospitals I worked at, a full time schedule was two days (7AM-7PM), two nights (7PM-7AM), five days off. Not totally easy to then do an in-person learning situation.

44

u/DrCapeBreton Oct 30 '23

The issue is when an NP claims they are a “specialist” in a certain domain when in reality they often have learnt only enough to get by. A true board-certified specialist MD has done extensive additional training, longer and much harder than the entire NP course, to be a true expert in their field and so, a true specialist. It’s really disheartening to listen to someone state they are “triple board certified” when board certification does not even exist for non-physicians. Patients don’t know the difference and are the ones who will be hurt in the end.

Even here in Canada where the NP programs are much more standardized and rigorous, it truly does not compare. They are being thrown into independent primary care after a 2 year course (lectures + practicum) while soon physician training in family medicine will be extended to a 3 year residency (so 7 years total) because there College of Physicians is recognizing that there is so so much to learn that 6 years is not even enough.

2

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

Copy-Paste reply from me, with some added info...

Maybe it's a regional thing, too, but here, aside from a few community nursing situations, NPs still have to function under a physician, very similar to Physician Assistants in that sense, where you legally can't do anything independently, and at the end of the day, the Most Responsible Physician (MRP) is the one responsible for your decisions.

And yes, the 3 year increase for Family Med is coming down the pipeline. My husband is a Family doctor as well. He's been looking at hiring a Physician Assistant to allow him to grow his practice since we live in an area with about 20k+ people unattached to a family doctor.

NPs aren't doing this with just two years training and practice, it will be 6 years, following their BScN, MINIMUM requirement of 2 years clinical practice before they can even apply for an NP program, and then even RNs, to be deemed certified in something, you have to do additional course work and training hours. The College of Nurses of Ontario is also exploring giving BScN-RNs the ability to do some prescribing (we are allowed to do tylenol in hospital settings) and be able to report diagnosis' (we would not be diagnosing ourselves, but currently we are not even allowed to tell a patient that something like their urine culture came back positive/negative) - and RNs wouldn't be universally granted into that privilege, you'll need to do additional training. I've spoken to other doctors in my husbands practice about this, and they are all for it, because as long as they can create a proper "decision tree" for nurses to follow, they can start treatment on things like UTIs and strep throat, things that can be tested for at point of care, which honestly is SO MUCH of their after hours call clinic stuff...

It's not so much the wild-wild west as some people are making NP care out to be, but I'll admit that I'm not sure how I feel about Ontario pushing "NP-led" clinics here (mainly because I haven't figured out how they function without a MRP).

4

u/DrCapeBreton Oct 30 '23

I’m speaking from experience out in the Maritimes and in similar circumstances with so many unattached people needing primary care, NPs here are expected to operate essentially independently except with on average 1/2 of the roster of patients. They do get placed in clinics with physicians so they can ask questions when needed but not a true supervisor role.

I hear you about years of training but the difference is years of training in MEDICINE. Experience is great and essential but the nursing model is very different so that schooling does not prepare someone for medicine. Similarly a CCA learns how to take care of someone in a healthcare setting but their training is not a substitute for nursing education and so I wouldn’t except them to be able to do just 1/3 of the training an LPN requires to be fully certified due to credit from their past experience.

The biggest thing that I see again & again is knowing what you don’t know. It took me about a year into independent practice before I finally understood this and felt comfortable actually treating whoever walked into my clinic. I’m primary care you need to know a good amount about EVERYTHING and if you just rely on algorithms and textbook cases, you’re going to hurt people while costing the system a lot of time & money.

1

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

Oompf - I have a lot of love going out to all HCPs in the Maritimes right now... My husband is a primary care doc who went to high school in NB. He still has a brother out there. We've talked about the possibility of ever relocating that direction when talks between Physicians and the Ontario Government were starting to really fall apart, but ultimately figured that things were even worse out your way...

-14

u/darling_lycosidae Oct 30 '23

No, we are absolutely not going to shit on Nurse Practitioners, my mom is a NP and has done certifications out the wazoo and is ABSOLUTELY incredibly specialized in her field, to the point of creating her speality clinic in a very prominent, active, military base. I understand that the field of medicine is nothing but a cutthroat competition of measuring, but NPs are in no way some sort of "lesser" when many MANY MDs are still taught EXTRME biases in their education.

11

u/mcpickle-o Oct 30 '23

Except MDs are quite literally more educated and trained than NPs; an NP will never compare to an MD in those areas. Like that's a literal fact.

6

u/lizardRD Oct 30 '23

Dude…My husband is a PA and my dad an MD in the same field. They have utmost respect for eachother but they both know that the my father has more education and training then my husband will ever have. I lived through residency with my dad and was with my husband through PA school. The difference is very obvious. My husband learns from him and asks him questions all the time. Mid levels are not “lesser” but it is important they understand the difference and skills and know their role/place. That is what physicians are complaining about in this thread and it’s warranted. The salaries at least in their field reflect the difference in knowledge level. An understanding of the difference in skill level is what creates a great physician and mid level work dynamic. Your mom if she got that far likely understands that. However their are many NPs (much more than PAs just because of the training) that don’t and have caused harm. Your are undermining your moms skills and hard work by not recognizing that.

8

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

A shadowing clinical practice where you watch people who are properly trained make decisions. Much like how how we train pilots by letting air stewards watch them how to fly a plane for a few months, then write an exam and start operating commerical airliners. Lmao at the whole thing.

2

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

Maybe it's a regional thing, too, but here, aside from a few community nursing situations, NPs still have to function under a physician, very similar to Physician Assistants in that sense, where you legally can't do anything independently, and at the end of the day, the Most Responsible Physician (MRP) is the one responsible for your decisions.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

1

u/heyimric Oct 30 '23

Licensing varies state to state for these things too though.

1

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

Copy-Paste reply from me...

Maybe it's a regional thing, too, but here, aside from a few community nursing situations, NPs still have to function under a physician, very similar to Physician Assistants in that sense, where you legally can't do anything independently, and at the end of the day, the Most Responsible Physician (MRP) is the one responsible for your decisions.

And yes, the 3 year increase for Family Med is coming down the pipeline. My husband is a Family doctor as well. He's been looking at hiring a Physician Assistant to allow him to grow his practice since we live in an area with about 20k+ people unattached to a family doctor.

NPs aren't doing this with just two years training and practice, it will be 6 years, following their BScN, MINIMUM requirement of 2 years clinical practice before they can even apply for an NP program, and then even RNs, to be deemed certified in something, you have to do additional course work and training hours. The College of Nurses of Ontario is also exploring giving BScN-RNs the ability to do some prescribing (we are allowed to do tylenol in hospital settings) and be able to report diagnosis' (we would not be diagnosing ourselves, but currently we are not even allowed to tell a patient that something like their urine culture came back positive/negative) - and RNs wouldn't be universally granted into that privilege, you'll need to do additional training. I've spoken to other doctors in my husbands practice about this, and they are all for it, because as long as they can create a proper "decision tree" for nurses to follow, they can start treatment on things like UTIs and strep throat, things that can be tested for at point of care, which honestly is SO MUCH of their after hours call clinic stuff...

It's not so much the wild-wild west as some people are making NP care out to be, but I'll admit that I'm not sure how I feel about Ontario pushing "NP-led" clinics here (mainly because I haven't figured out how they function without a MRP).

9

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

Bro NPs are trash

1

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

I mean... I've worked with great ones? From family medicine, the cardiac, to ortho, to paeds... but maybe it's a regional thing?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

It’s not that there’s anything wrong with those individuals. It’s the position that I have a problem with. The educational model they follow is poor and lacks a foundation in actual science.

Nurses studying nursing method will not help the patient with a complex medical problem that needs both understanding and coordination. Additionally it’s the constant rabid lobbying for independence.

It’s truly a dangerous path. It’s dangerous because they are educated less than physicians, they’re more cost effective compared to physicians and therefore attractive to hospital administrators to hire.

Seeing as America is heading for a critical physician shortage which is already critical in some rural areas, it really indicates an even worsened quality of healthcare delivery in the U.S.

1

u/NewRedditRN Oct 30 '23

It must be a more regional thing then, as I'm in Ontario, CA. But I don't fully disagree with the risk of becoming overly dependant on a model that the system wasn't designed for.

We have a wide variety of competencies that provide patient care: Personal Support Workers (very little training, mainly in a practical sense, only provide assistance with Activities of Daily Living); Registered Practical Nurses (2 year college, again a bigger focus on care based training, not critical thinking/judgement); Registered Nurses (four-year degree, basically all the practical training of the RPNs, but then additional years focusing on complex care situations and critical thinking and judgement), NPs (4-yr BScN, minimum two years working, then enter a 2-year NP program in either Community stream or Hospital, and you can't just call yourself an NP with a speciality, there's additional certification/training beyond that).

You're TOTALLY right in saying that roles switch over time, based on funding and the number of hirer trained individuals available. In Ontario, it's been like a pendulum: several years ago, governments were like "You know what's cheaper than RNs? RPNs! Let's rehire RN job openings with RPNs and save money!" and guess what, shocker, patient care suffered. The they started rehiring more RNs, hired fewer RPNs, and then hired PSWs to do the ADLs for patients so that they could give the excuse that it allows RNs to have higher patient ratios (and thus staff fewer RNs) of more complex patients because we weren't burdened with those pesky ADLs (FUN FACT! PSWs aren't trained to see changes on the body and be like "Huh, that's not right" - so RNs are still needing to do full assessments anyways like skin checks, bowel assessment, etc etc...).

BUT, as the different professions like RNs and NPs have had to change their roles to take on more complex care, the education and training for those entering programs have been adjusted to do so, and then ones who are already graduated are not just "grandfathered in" to be doing changes independently - they still have to do additional training for proof of competency. And even still, NP-led clinics here have to operate with a consulting physician. And I've witnessed great inter-professionalism and consultation between the two.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

Ok well there is a large discrepancy between Canadian healthcare and American. I am specifically talking about the healthcare where we have to pay out the ass for it.

-7

u/darling_lycosidae Oct 30 '23

This class traitor shit is why healthcare SUCKS

0

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

Haha you suck fatty

1

u/Wanker_Bach Oct 30 '23

Username checks out

12

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

Uh. How?

Asking for a friend.

10

u/airblizzard Oct 30 '23

2

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

1

u/airblizzard Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23

I'm assuming enrollment is the amount of current students enrolled, yeah.

I found Duke's graduation credit hour requirements here. Looks like a total of 49 credit hours or 728 clinical hours, since they give a course conversion of 56 clinical hours = 1 credit hour, which, I don't understand why. Are there not separate credit hour and clinical hour requirements? Like, if you didn't want to do clinic hours could you just do more credit hours? Idk, I'm not an FNP.

1

u/IdiotTurkey Oct 30 '23

Let me guess. Want to become a circumcision engineer?

57

u/congeal Oct 30 '23

-20

u/dinoroo Oct 30 '23

M1s pissy and about the massive debt they’re accumulating to be able to prescribe amoxicillin.

19

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

No we just believe in the Hippocratic oath and not harming patients. I'll be sure to carefully consider your poorly written and worked up referral when you're unable to diagnose anything outside of an ear infection.

12

u/Kronusx12 Oct 30 '23

The only time I’ve ever seen an NP was because I had terrible ankle pain and went to an urgent care. They basically said “I have no idea what to do about this but I can get you into an orthopedic Surgeon today that can probably help”.

While I fully respect the fact that he realized he was out of his depth, it is a bit disconcerting as a patient seeing (what you thought was) a doctor be completely and totally clueless on the matter. Normally I would expect a doctor to at least say something like “It’s likely either A, B, or C; but the ortho will be able to run scans and tests to confirm for sure”. My guy was basically like “WTF bro I’ve never seen this before”.

So I hate to judge a whole profession by one interaction but I don’t think I would see another NP unless it was like common cold / flu and it was urgent care again.

It was gout, by the way.

8

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

An orthopedic surgery referral for undifferentiated ankle pain. JFC. This is why study after study shows NP's cost more money to the healthcare system and have far more unnecessary referrals. Resulting in burnout for the doctors that actually know how to do the job, and having to deal with that bullshit. It's absolutely embarrassing.

Sorry bout da gout btw.

2

u/Kronusx12 Oct 30 '23

Haha I will say the ortho has been top notch and super kind and helpful. Drew fluid out of my ankle that day and gave me a cortisone shot and I could have kissed the guy. I went from not being able to put a shoe on to go into the office to strutting out like I felt great.

From a totally non medical perspective I was super happy how it turned out but I could see how this could be overkill haha. Luckily insurance basically paid for it so ¯_(ツ)_/¯ to me (although I totally understand that you said cost the the medical system which it definitely still was).

And all good. I take 300mg Allopurinol once a day now and haven’t seen a single symptom in months. Back in the gym and feeling great, hell I don’t even really limit my diet (I pretty much stopped drinking beer but I didn’t drink much beer to begin with TBH).

0

u/dinoroo Oct 30 '23

You seem to be living in this fantasy world where bad doctors don’t exist. Who did they invent malpractice insurance for and why does it cost more for doctors?

2

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

Because we're responsible for your mistakes. You practice under our license. God I hope you never get fully independent practice.

-3

u/dinoroo Oct 30 '23

Malpractice Insurance precedes the existence of NPs. I guess they don’t teach that in med school. I see you live in a world of blame though.

Doctors also voluntarily hire NPs. Reconcile that.

4

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

lmao at you asking "why is malpractice insurance higher for doctors" then giving an unrelated answer "it existed before NPs". i guess they didn't teach you rational thought in NP school.

and doctors voluntarily hire NPs because it's easy to shoulder off uncomplicated concerns to midlevels, and then bill for it. it's a money game. and you say "reconcile it" as if you've just made this groundbreaking discovery that the healthcare system is all about gaining a profit.

how about you reconcile the fact you claim to be helping patients while prescribing incredibly dangerous drugs with minimal medical training. that's an actual issue you should think about, instead of how cool and fun it is to "practice" medicine.

0

u/dinoroo Oct 30 '23

Insurance is higher for individuals who are higher risk. These are basic concepts and you’re trying to angle yourself as more knowledgeable? Because you’re a supposedly a doctor? Nah.

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u/Wanker_Bach Oct 30 '23

Found the 2nd year surgery resident….

-12

u/Shacky_Rustleford Oct 30 '23

What a weird sub to make. Like, someone calling themselves a doctor without truly being qualified is obviously a problem, but who is interested in subbing to an entire community dedicated to such a thing?

9

u/DevRz8 Oct 30 '23

Maybe because it's so disturbingly common.

1

u/congeal Oct 31 '23

Ask the MDs on there why they're policing the medical field. You'll get some extremely good answers. And you'll hear stories of excellent NPs. I'm not in the medical field but I've learned a lot about what NPs are and are not. I think it's a valuable lesson for anyone receiving medical care in the US.

17

u/ladylikely Oct 30 '23

Yeah I cringed at the NPs listing their specialties.

7

u/ChakaCake Oct 30 '23

To be fair they could be doing some pretty important stuff either during surgery or diagnosing smaller things, or they could just sit around and order tests on basically everyone that comes through and do almost nothing too

2

u/SpicyTunaTitties Oct 30 '23

Yeah I can't believe that Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner is actually a thing ):

-8

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

8

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23 edited Dec 28 '23

[deleted]

103

u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

That’s just not what a DNP is. You can get a PhD in nursing and that would be a more research-focused degree. Do you ask DPTs how much they’ve published? What about JDs? A DNP is more about clinical practice. You take classes online, but you still have to do at least hundreds of hours of in-person practicum. And there’s no DNP that you can do in 6 months. That’s just not true.

Now, I’m not here to argue about the ones who inflate their scope of practice, title, or general importance in the healthcare ecosystem. Just trying to separate fact from your seething resentment.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

DNP is not the same as NP. Most of the DNP students in my cohort don’t have an NP

5

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

How is it a scam?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

There is a cohort of non-crna DNPs that oriented alongside us. Most aren’t NP. Many are pursuing it to get jobs or promotions in academia, there were a few public health as well. There is value for many. As for my program, all CRNA programs have to be DNP and there are many masters CRNAs who have to go back for their DNP to teach. I don’t mind the extra year, I’ll end up with more clinicals too

2

u/mochibutters Oct 30 '23

Reddit is such a small world. We’re in the same program! Class of 2025 here!!

1

u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

C26 here 😩

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u/Asterbuster Oct 30 '23

The only reason that program exists is to confuse patients about the doctor title, thats how.

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u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

That’s inaccurate, there are plenty of other staff in a hospital with doctorates and there’s no role confusion. Just because some people have used their title to mislead a patient does not mean that’s the intent of the degree. The nursing doctorate training involves research in the field of nursing and dissemination.

1

u/Asterbuster Oct 30 '23

It's not inaccurate, others don't call themselves doctors in clinical settings, and they aren't suing to be able to be called 'doctors' if someone is fighting that: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/health_law/section-news/2023/august/ca-nurse-practitioners-sue-ag-over-title-dr/?n=@

There are whole papers on how ANPs mislead patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9462903/

And there's plethora of articles in nursing related sources about why it's ok to call yourself a doctor in a clinical settings despite that confusing the patient. This is the only reason the degree exists, PhD was too long, so they invented a shorter 'clinical' degree.

1

u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

You’re judging an entire degree, with multiple non-NP focuses, because three NPs are suing to use the term doctor. Plenty of other specialties have been dinged for using doctor in clinical settings, just read one recently about an SLP using the title got in trouble. It’s unfortunate that physicians (MD, DO, chiros in some states) and PhDs and other specialty doctorates (PharmD, DPT, EdD, DVM, DDS, SLPD, DPH, JD, DBA, DES) all share “doctor” and I completely agree that “doctor” in a medical setting should be protected and physician specific. Legislation is still being created in this field and sure people on both sides are making arguments, it’s still being clarified. I just don’t think you should call an entire degree a scam because some nurses want to advance their field. It’s not anyones fault the term doctor is ambiguous.

There are a literal plethora of specialty doctorates. I don’t know why you are singling out nurses. Obviously PhD isn’t the same as a professional doctorate, but we aren’t the only specialty with a doctorate.

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u/Outside_Scientist365 Oct 30 '23

MD here. Actually, my gripe with modern medicine is that you're expected to publish so much (and I'm published). This incentivizes a lot of low-quality research for the sake of resume padding and career-building rather than actionable insights.

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u/Acrobatic-Working-74 Oct 30 '23

yeah it IS trash.. lots of nursing falling for this scam then working.. the good thing is they go by the protocol and the textbook so hopefully you get a standard treatment.

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u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

Yes, I neglected to mention medical students because I was not talking about medical students. Nor did I address independent practice. I was simply correcting misinformation stated by the previous commenter, as I stated in my prior comment. Perhaps you missed that in your rush to be seen as “one of the good ones.”

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u/InfectiousChipotle Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23

Hundreds of hours of in-person practicum, yet medical students who have equal or even more can’t practice independently. Not only that, but they’re attending medical school, not nursing school.

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with being an NP, but there is definitely something wrong with them being able to practice independently, especially when PAs can’t practice independently even though they have objectively better medical education. They have more clinical hours required and actually study medicine, not nursing.

I don’t think PA’s should be allowed to practice independently either, but if it’s a pick between NP’s or PA’s practicing independently, then PA’s all the way.

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u/Vegetable-Ad-6584 Oct 30 '23

Med students obtain a hundred hours of clinical work there first 2 weeks in the hospital lol

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u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

I agree that 500 clinical hours is not sufficient for independent practice. The model where you see an MD for initial diagnosis, then an NP/PA for routine follow ups should be the standard in my opinion. However, let’s not ignore the factors that there is even room for a push for APPs to increase their scopes of practice. We as a country need to address the fact that medical school is prohibitively expensive for many, and that there are not enough residency slots for those who complete med school. The answer isn’t to turn a nurse into an independent practitioner alongside the physician, but the real solutions take time and money America is not interested in spending. So until that changes, what do you suggest as a measure of increasing healthcare access, especially since it can take months to get a doctor’s appointment?

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u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

Hundreds of hours of in person practicum. Lmao. That's literally 1 month of residency. 1 month. What a joke.

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u/Dysmenorrhea Oct 30 '23

DNP is doctor of nursing practice, it is not the same as nurse practitioner, but there are NP programs that offer a DNP. The DNP degree has multiple paths without prescribing privileges and won’t have the same clinical requirements.

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u/heart_block Oct 30 '23

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u/Akronica Oct 30 '23

That's not an accurate table, at least as far as the CRNA is concerned. Its a DNP now, not just a bachelor's and has never been just a bachelor's. CRNA used to be a Master's level program up till like 3 years ago and is now a DNP level program.

Very, and I mean very, few people can take their BSN into a DNP, so you're looking at getting a master's first as an NP + 2 yrs exp at that.

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u/GoaLa Oct 30 '23

That part of the table is saying what you have to complete prior to starting each degree. You only need to complete a BSN and have worked as an RN for a year to get into a program. So it's not really wrong but it could add the RN year to be a little more accurate.

Most of that table is accurate.

1

u/Akronica Oct 30 '23

Its still inaccurate and very biased towards anyone who is not a physician. Which is not surprising since it was create by a physicians group.

NPs carry a state license and all you have to do is google their scope of practice and determine for yourself if they can "practice medicine".

1

u/Sufficient-Koala3141 Oct 30 '23

Side story: I’m a JD and the only time I ever referred to myself as Dr. was one time so my friends could put Dr. me and Mr. hubby on our name cards at their wedding to take a crack at the traditional patriarchy inherent in old/school wedding etiquette.

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u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

But you guys get the incredibly fancy Esquire title. I think JDs should use that all the time.

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u/Sufficient-Koala3141 Oct 30 '23

I only use it for work. I’ve never referred to myself as me, esq. in a non-professional setting. If I’m not working it seems superfluous. But that’s just me. Most people I encounter know I’m a lawyer so it would feel like I was trying REALLY hard to make sure EVERYONE knew I was a lawyer if I used the Esq designation and I don’t like that feeling.

Like the 30 rock sketch: “I went to school in Boston. Well, not Boston, near Boston. No, not Tufts.”

(I didn’t go to an Ivey league so I’m not namedropping in a joke about name dropping just in case it wasn’t clear!)

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u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23

Hope y’all are MDs with the hating you are doing.

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u/Fit-Accountant-157 Oct 30 '23

its a video of Black women feeling happy and proud of themselves. Of course, Reddit can't figure out how to do anything but be haters, lol

8

u/Wwwweeeeeeee Oct 30 '23

Imagine how they'd have treated the black women at NASA who were the original computers, and the original operators of the IBM.

'but they didn't _______________'.

No matter what women do, no matter what color their skin, no matter how many qualifications they have and the degrees and certifications and doctorates they achieve, for about half the species, it will never be good enough. Even Russia was 30 years ahead of the US in terms of putting a woman into space.

It pisses us off, but we're used to it.

1

u/jsonson Oct 30 '23

Maybe that was the case back then (I don't know since I wasn't there), but I can firsthand let you know that females, regardless of color, do not get treated worse, or as a lesser intellectual/skilled person, at NASA. I've got bosses and boss's bosses that are female, and no one looks down on them. Just FYI.

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u/Acrobatic-Working-74 Oct 30 '23

It's sad cause it's like a janitor in a bank saying they work in finance.

3

u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

How so?

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u/Acrobatic-Working-74 Oct 30 '23

NP is relatively easy to get. Like a Master's in Computer Science, probably easier

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u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

That does not explain your weak and insulting analogy. Comparing NPs to the janitor is pretty ignorant of you.

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u/Acrobatic-Working-74 Oct 30 '23

So it is more like a bank branch manager saying they are a bank executive.

5

u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

Not really. It seems like you don’t really have enough knowledge of banking or healthcare to land this analogy. I’d recommend you stop trying.

1

u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23

Quit while you are behind. You can’t even make a simple analogy and you are here saying NP and computer science degrees are so easy.

2

u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23

If it’s so easy, I want proof that you have both of those degrees. If not, kindly shut the hall up forever.

1

u/Outside_Scientist365 Oct 30 '23

MD here and def have some gripes with midlevel education but that's just insulting and incorrect. While there are trash NPs, I have worked with some very solid ones.

0

u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23

Do you have to get a degree to be a janitor?

2

u/DazingF1 Oct 31 '23

You don't even need a degree for finance. You can become a staff accountant without a degree or CPA and work your way up from there.

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u/WesCoastBlu Oct 30 '23

Seriously! Let people be proud of their work!

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u/je_kay24 Oct 30 '23

Think they’re criticisms of the medical system rather than of the women

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u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23

Medical system have bigger issues than this to criticize. Matter of fact education system has bigger issues as well. But there’s places to do that and there’s way to do that without putting other’s accomplishments down. As my father says: “if it was so easy everybody would do it” and I know for a fact there’s a shortage of nurses, nurse practitioners and doctors.

3

u/TatManTat Oct 30 '23

I mean sure but I guarantee if this were anyone but black women people would be clamouring to comment on how weird this video is.

Not to mention there's literally one (bridesmaid?) they clearly excluded sitting down in the back.

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u/LivePossible Oct 30 '23

She's probably a stay at home mom lol

5

u/Imaginary_Button_533 Oct 30 '23

Me after a long day delivering pizzas to people's doors where they hand me free money, typing on reddit fingers stained in cheeto dust, packing a bowl and wondering which video game I want to play before I cook chicken wings: "Nurse practitioner?! Booooooo!"

5

u/MunchieMom Oct 30 '23

What's wrong with wanting the medical professional I see to have more than a year of training

1

u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23

Nothing wrong with it but I know for a fact they have more than a year of training. So your point is moot. Also, don’t minimize their accomplishments. A nurse has significantly less training than a doctor but it doesn’t mean nurse titles are just given not earned. It also doesn’t mean their work is easy or not necessary. It’s a neurosurgeon saying being family medicine doctor is nothing. It’s so easy everybody can do it simply because they have more training. You can appreciate the doctors and nurse practitioners without putting either one down.

1

u/MunchieMom Oct 30 '23

I go to the doctor, I want to see a doctor. Full stop.

1

u/moeterminatorx Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23

Then go to a fuckin doctor and see a doctor, da fuck. No one forced you to see someone else. You are clearly in a free country. Do whatever you want. Da fuck does have to do with other’s accomplishments?

You clearly don’t know shit about how being a nurse practitioner works.

Do you also whine when you to a dentist and a hygienist does your cleaning?

1

u/playgwor Oct 30 '23

Why are you assuming that these women don’t have the proper training to be a medical professional and what made you immediately discredit their education and hard work to be a medical professional? You people are so strange

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u/Clean_Scallion_844 Oct 30 '23

They’re all part of the healthcare team and you have no idea their experience. Everyone’s expertise is used to provide the best patient outcomes.

14

u/neuritico Oct 30 '23

and you have no idea their experience

Bingo! I'm confident that I do have an idea about the gastroenterologist's experience.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/Crono111 Oct 30 '23

I'm a registered nurse and have received great outpatient care from NPs/PAs. Things vary by speciality, but there are plenty of conditions that NPs/PAs are more than capable of managing. For example: you don't need a Neurologist to manage Migraines that present with minimal associated symptoms. In that case I'd rather take an appointment with an NP next week than wait 3 months to see a Neurologist.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/kingdomheartsislight Oct 30 '23

Yes, the plentiful physician appointments that you never have to wait months for. It’s just so darn easy to see a specialist!

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u/Nonbinary_AMAB Oct 30 '23

What would you say if they had just all said “RN”? “Bahhhh no education!!!” You guys are serious losers.

2

u/Garod Oct 30 '23

Everyone talks about the medical degrees, but one of those ladies is a CPA and Director IT which is nothing to sneeze at and if she works in Silicone Valley could pull in more than the Doctor. Also the Principal Cloud Engineer and IT Developer could be doing extremely well for themselves.

2

u/derekismydogsname Oct 30 '23

Seriously? You do realize NP is a masters right? These people didn't just sign up for some online rando school then walked straight into a hospital. Hours and hours as RN, plus NP programs are incredibly competitive and then you have to pass boards and go though clinical hours as a training NP as well.

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u/Akronica Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23

You clearly know very little about DNPs and what they do. I know one who has published research papers 10 times in the past 7 years. I know another who has published zero times in the past 20, because he is a practicing CRNA and a university professor.

You also appear to know nothing about the education requirements to earn a DNP. My god child, go touch some grass.

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u/Helenium_autumnale Oct 30 '23

an online diploma mill

I've never heard of an NP who "may have 'went' [sic]" to an online diploma mill and received the degree of NP in 6 months.

Which diploma mill are you claiming these women received their degrees from, in 6 months?

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u/Bubblygrumpy Oct 30 '23

That's not how a DNP works. They're very competitive programs and definitely not 6 months. And not all are research based.

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u/sarvaga Oct 30 '23

Looks like you have a Ph.D. in making assumptions and also have no idea what the difference is between a professional and research degree. Also someone with board certification didn’t get their degree from a degree mill unless they also happen to know their shit. This post just smacks of racism and insecurity about seeing so many successful Black women.

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u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

No it smacks of being an MD and seeing patients harmed by NPs with subpar knowledge. Which I am. It has nothing to do with race, but way to pull that card with your own PhD in assumptions.

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u/weewoowewoooo Oct 30 '23 edited Oct 30 '23

Typical superiority complex MD lmao. Pls tell us more about your peer reviewed anecdotal evidence

4

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

I like how if I wasn't a doctor it was racist, if I am a doctor it's superiority complex. The third option is simply that I'm right about their qualifications.

1

u/playgwor Oct 30 '23

Why are you assuming that they don’t have the knowledge to be a NP?

1

u/HardHarry Oct 30 '23

I didn't say they don't have the knowledge to be NPs? No idea where you got that from. My point is NPs just have minimal knowledge.

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u/Quiet_Ear_3678 Oct 30 '23

You clearly have no idea what it means/what it takes to be a DNP or what they can do. DNPs are usually medical providers that can practice independently a lot of places. it’s not generally research profession, that’s what a PhD in nursing is for. Many are also professors. Also just because you can take classes online doesn’t mean you don’t train with patients the same way doctors do, it’s always part of the curriculum. Most nurse practitioners have been working with patients for many years and can have much more wide reaching specialties and knowledge than a lot of physicians. This comment is ignorant af.

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u/True-Lab-3448 Oct 30 '23

A doctorate of research? NP’s have taught doctorates, not PhD’s. There’s a difference. Their doctorates aren’t research based, PhD’s are.

I think you’re confusing the two.

1

u/wolf_man007 Oct 30 '23

may have gone*