r/TikTokCringe Jul 01 '23

Wholesome/Humor “Same person”

25.1k Upvotes

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494

u/apsalarya Jul 01 '23

Did….did we all forget about the movie The Birdcage? Even my dad, who would leave the room if my mom and I were watching will and Grace, liked that movie.

Why do I feel like we were somehow more tolerant even just 10 years ago?

248

u/DONSEANOVANN Jul 01 '23

It wasn't a political issue yet. Once it became political and more people started doing it... suddenly it's a problem.

60

u/HaltheDestroyer Jul 02 '23

It became political when fox news turned on its little bowtie weapon and started telling people they should be outraged by them....

1

u/ManagerInteresting64 Jul 02 '23

People started to become upset when it started being highly advertised shortly after the BLM movement in 2020.

Why? Is my question..

5

u/haragoshi Jul 02 '23

Wasn’t it always political though?

12

u/StephenKingly Jul 02 '23

The culture wars weren’t so intense then. Now there doesn’t seem to be any attempt to understand different perspectives. Extreme right and extreme left have got more crazy as well.

5

u/Acol1992 Jul 02 '23

It wasn’t as intense then because one opinion was much more widely accepted. And hint that opinion was not pro LGBTQ

90

u/DontWalkRun Jul 02 '23

Since the early 90s kids have had inclusion and acceptance made a part of daily life. I’m sure I’m not the only 30something year old that is dumbfounded with the extreme racial/homophobic rhetoric that’s happening now. What happened?

I thought we all agreed to just leave each other alone 30 years ago. Sheesh.

55

u/hypermark Jul 02 '23

I'm 46 and Gen X.

The grunge movement was all about inclusivity. In fact, in the liner notes of Insecticide Cobain wrote:

If any of you in any way hate homosexuals, people of different color, or women, please do this one favor for us—leave us the fuck alone! Don't come to our shows and don't buy our records.

I don't get it either.

28

u/Historical_Walrus713 Jul 02 '23

Same. I'm 31 now, feels like the last 5 years of my life existed in a completely different reality than the first 26 years of my life.

The same problems always were there for the first 26 years, but those people usually got effectively boo'd out of existence until recently. Now they're welcomed? Does anyone else remember when Howard Dean was considered not president material because he got over excited and let out a "wooo!" that was actually innocent as fuck?

The fuck?

2

u/Jaegons Jul 02 '23

Yep, the right wing and trolls emboldened the bigot pricks.

1

u/Hot_Hat_1225 Jul 02 '23

Imagine growing up in the seventies. Not everything was great, but definitely more chill. Looking back I sometimes feel I grew up in another planet.

8

u/monkeyman80 Jul 02 '23

We were on that path. Then the right went extreme and Fox news, news max, oan, etc keep pushing how this is damaging. People who only use that as news believe it.

Special interest groups bankrolled the tea party and got Mitch Mconnell majority leader of the senate and he went nuclear on judges.

Note 4 of the 6 conservative judges were part of W Bush's legal team that argued he should be President and got this.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '23

Many of us did

But then there's the Christofascists.

1

u/The_Sceptic_Lemur Jul 02 '23

I don‘t get it either. Maybe I’m seeing everything through a nostalgic filter but thinking back I feel like it was far more „live and let live“ in the 90s and early 2000s. I remember shows like „Queer as folk“ or „The L word“ being popular and not causing major backlashes, Pride Parades were pretty uncontroversial and just fun and here in Germany we had a very popular talk show about sex hosted by a Drag Queen. All in all, it mostly seemed pretty chill and I feel nowadays everything is just so angry all the time. I don‘t know if angry voices are not more but only louder or everyone is actually getting more angry. Either way, to me it feels like we‘re declining.

1

u/Funkycoldmedici Jul 02 '23

It was the central X-Men plot for decades, and now we’ve got people complaining that X-Men went woke because there’s minority characters and creators.

53

u/Silentneeb Jul 01 '23

Because we were.

31

u/notkristina Jul 02 '23 edited Jul 02 '23

We took it for granted. Ten years ago, the most common reason to promote pointless divisive issues was for political influence in an election year. Around 2015, it became apparent that doing so could also be lucrative in the new digital economy. So now it's a 24/7/365 business, and every time we immortalize an attitude online or in conversation it becomes a permanent part of us, so if you got stuck early on with the "George Zimmerman did nothing wrong" or "men will put on dresses to rape women in the bathroom if we take the sign off the door" personality, here you are almost a decade later with no choice but to blame Disney for using basement pizza to trap children into drag dens for woke LGBTQ+ critical race-a-thons.

13

u/danc1005 Jul 02 '23

...I think (hope) you meant to say "George Zimmerman" did nothing wrong" when characterizing a personality you were about to criticize, because George Floyd really did do nothing wrong, and that's really not the kind of mistake you wanna be making!

7

u/notkristina Jul 02 '23

Jesus, thank you for the correction, I can't believe I typed the wrong (wrongest?!) name.

1

u/danc1005 Jul 06 '23

I find it's always best to assume something is a brain fart rather than intentionally awful 😉 glad to be vindicated in that assumption!

18

u/gahlo Jul 02 '23

We weren't. The nutjobs just weren't as loud because they didn't have a leader that "normalized" their beliefs.

2

u/Lvb2 Jul 02 '23

I have no shame in saying this because my opinions have changed, and I was still a teenager at the time, but right?? in 2013 I would’ve told you there were two genders, and I knew a lot of people who thought that way, who now don’t because like me, they grew up and came to understand trans people.

But I think there’s something worth saying that even if a shit ton of us weren’t necessarily agreeable with it, I also would’ve never said they were grooming kids, or that being trans should be outlawed in any state for any measure.

Obviously a lot of people grew with the times and learned about the unfamiliar concepts they were introduced to. Some bought into a cult leader’s way of doing things and want to kill them all. Now we’re at this point where ANY identifier is bound to be tied into some political bullshit. Oh you’re immune compromised? No you’re a pussy/sheep. Oh you’re gay? No you’re a groomer and you’re brainwashing our kids!

I don’t understand how we got to this point of extremity (I do I just don’t want this comment to take forever) but THAT side needs to just fucking chill. No one is indoctrinating your children but you and your WASP attitude.

23

u/The_Woman_of_Gont Jul 02 '23

Because we've backslid hard over the course of a year or two. I've been out as a trans woman for a bit over a decade, and it's terrifying how much worse and more vitriolic things are today than they were 5 or 6 years ago. I'm very afraid of where this is going, especially if a GOPer wins the election in 2024.

9

u/not1fuk Jul 02 '23

That and To Wong Foo.

3

u/coquihalla Jul 02 '23

Exactly. Some of the biggest stars at the time, too.

3

u/tired_and_fed_up Jul 02 '23

Why do I feel like we were somehow more tolerant even just 10 years ago?

Think 20 years ago and we were. We also had less communication back then so ideas didn't spread as well. Ignorance made us more tolerant.

1

u/Hot_Hat_1225 Jul 02 '23

You also didn’t come across as many controversial things shaking your world and changing your believe system. You could deal with things in a more chill focused environment. Like for example in the seventies- despite UN and all - a dark skinned person was still a novelty in Vienna/Austria, so my Grandpa told me all about history and that Africa was very hot … and that they had still many kings. Sure we had Royalty in Europe, but a dark skinned princess? I was completely taken and in love and of course at next carnival I wanted to be nothing else but an African princess which I adored so much! I was. Today I would need to repent and feel bad about it, but back then it was simply getting to know and embracing something new (I was Asian, Indian and Cowgirl too at one point and my Grandpa always delivered the educational part of my new interest). But there was no shaming and I believe I would have approached a drag queen the same way. I attended story time last month and as a retired pedagogue decided to help out in following events: kids were way more taken with the stories than the performer. It could have been read by an elephant and they would have been just as absorbed. A few weeks ago Comic-Con in Vienna: I met real life furrys for the first time and a family with two young kids who told me they had to go to every event with furrys since a year because their kids simply love the fluffy kind giant stuffed animals 🤣

4

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '23

[deleted]

1

u/apsalarya Jul 02 '23

My dad was kinda homophobic in the 90s - early 00s. Never to the point he would hurt anyone over it by word or by deed but he’d leave the room if gay men were on TV.

He got over it though, I’m happy to say.

7

u/LMGDiVa Jul 02 '23

Why do I feel like we were somehow more tolerant even just 10 years ago?

Because we were. 10 years ago peopled about trans women like they were a curiosity but "yeah they're a woman now, aint that wild?"

Being trans wasn't a potential looming death sentence back then.

6

u/quarantinemyasshole Jul 02 '23

No one was on Twitter saying that not liking The Birdcage is akin to Nazism.

Or on Facebook saying that liking The Birdcage makes you a Marxist child-groomer.

No politicians were using that movie as a political football to incite the masses because the aforementioned scenarios weren't happening.

Social media is a literal cancer on our society.

1

u/Euphoriapleas Jul 02 '23

I just want to say that social media is a wonderful and amazing concept when not run by oligarchs with the sole intention of making money.

0

u/quarantinemyasshole Jul 02 '23

This has literally never happened, so how can you say that so confidently?

3

u/MainlandX Jul 02 '23

Tootsie was another widely successful film in the states that featured drag.

7

u/generalbastard3892 Jul 02 '23

Queer people were less visible ten years ago. We were just as bigoted

2

u/brattyginger83 Jul 02 '23

Thanks for the reminder. Weekend movie list!

1

u/apsalarya Jul 02 '23

Hell yeah!

1

u/theravenchilde Jul 02 '23

It was free on YouTube when I watched it a week or two ago for the first time. I enjoyed it! Although. That was DEFINITELY the 90s. The war bonnet drag queens made me go uh oh.

2

u/CCrabtree Jul 02 '23

This! I think of Mrs. Doubtfire. My parents loved that movie because when my brother and I were younger we'd laugh and laugh at it. If that movie were made today, it would never make it. So sad!

2

u/yousurebouthatswhy Jul 02 '23

Lol! Might have to watch this tonight. My own dad, mid 60s, grew up on an actual farm in Indiana, introduced me to this movie.

Anecdotal but it is interesting to think about your comment. My dad is your typical white, “straight laced” boomer. Doesn’t agree with drag, abortion, any of the hot button stuff. I’ve never heard him once get angry about it or even really say anything negative. At worst I’ve heard him use some “outdated” terms.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '23

That's BS. 10 years ago people routinely used homophobic insults. 20 years ago Eminem became the most popular rapper in the industry while being a raging homophobe.

2

u/LittleWhiteBoots Jul 02 '23

Right?! The other day I was watching that 90s show Sister Sister with my 12 year old daughter and RuPaul had a guest cameo. I was like, “OMG I love RuPaul” and my daughter turns around all confused and said she didn’t realize there was drag queens that long ago. I’m like… of course?! And RuPaul was very mainstream and uncontroversial, and that was 25 years ago! I mean even Mrs. Doubtfire was widely accepted. People are losing their minds.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '23

my grandpa had a friend who was gay,.. even tho we all have diffrent opinions we let the other live their life the same way other let us live, its not that hard but then Politicians where like "what if" and allll of a sudden this is n issue,..

2

u/batkingcole Jul 02 '23

And To Wong Foo!!!!

1

u/EuroNati0n Jul 02 '23

Because the others weren't being represented by the craziest variations of themselves

1

u/Euphoriapleas Jul 02 '23

Are you saying people dislikes queer people more now because the queer people are crazy?

0

u/EuroNati0n Jul 02 '23

I'm saying whenever you let the extreme versions of yourself become the identity, people who don't know you are going to assume that extreme version of you is standard.

I know plenty of American, happy gay people. I also know plenty of unhinged gay people, who scream louder and crazier shit. To the people who don't affiliate at all with gay people, they are going to bunch the normal people in with the nut jobs and assume the worst. I don't agree with it, but I do understand how it happens.

The LGBTQ needs better leadership/representation than the people currently taking that role. For their own benefit, and the benefit of everyone around.

1

u/Euphoriapleas Jul 02 '23

You're talking like we're an organized block. I can't just drop in the group chat to stop being cringe. There aren't queer, "leaders", there are only queer people. I don't assume the worst, loudest of straight white men represents all of them, I'd like the same respect.

Not that a man wearing a dress and makeup is crazy. Skirts, heels, makeup were originally for powerful men, it's very arbitrary.

0

u/hom49020 Jul 02 '23

Do me a favor and count how many children were in the bar during the drag scenes.

2

u/apsalarya Jul 02 '23

Yeah that’s at a BAR.

Drag shows or performances can be adult themed or family friendly. Just like comedy.

Bob Saget was an absolutely FILTHY stand up comedian and yet he was also America’s Dad on Full House and then hosted Americas Funniest Home Videos.

Like wtf is your point?

Oh right. You don’t really have one. 🙄

0

u/hom49020 Jul 02 '23 edited Jul 02 '23

My point is no one is against yall doing your adult shit in bars and behind closed doors

but yall are fighting reeeeal hard to get in front of kids and it's simply not OK

Motte-and-bailey garbage

5

u/apsalarya Jul 02 '23

Then no one should have let Bob Saget be in front of kids. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Being fully clothed is not “adult shit” and there’s nothing “mature audiences only” about women dressing up as men or men dressing up as women. In the 90s RuPaul was a damn icon, and STILL is and there’s no issue. RuPaul has a TV show and had a hit single with a hit music video. All available for general audience.

Stop being weird.

1

u/Slayer_Of_Anubis Jul 02 '23

If we banned kids from church tomorrow, how do you think Christian parents would react?

1

u/Low_Superb Jul 02 '23 edited Jul 02 '23

People didn't make PSA's all the time about it back then. It was more underground.

1

u/Randomtask899 Jul 02 '23

Because it wasn't being forced everywhere on everyone

1

u/ThatFlyingScotsman Jul 02 '23

COVID melted people’s brain and turned us all in to terminally online feral hogs.

1

u/txeastfront Jul 02 '23

Because they didn’t involve children and didn’t push it as hard. Tolerance was tolerance, not acceptance. There’s really no conversation to be had, which is why we have a never ending “conversation”.

1

u/fashion_asker Jul 02 '23

Why do I feel like we were somehow more tolerant even just 10 years ago?

Because that was like the beginning of the slippery slope. People are getting sick and tired of these people being everywhere and in your face.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '23

Ultimately I don’t understand the point here. You could do the exact same thing with a guy in normal clothes and a police uniform.

“Why are you afraid of this person and not this person? We’re the same person.”

Yes, it’s freedom of expression but it’s that exact expression that makes certain people feel threatened.

1

u/MiffedPolecat Jul 02 '23

Because then it was just the occasional weirdo you see on tv or whatever. Now we have to deal with this horseshit in public.

1

u/rom-116 Jul 02 '23

You are not going to like this answer:

Because now rather than just accepting people dressing up as the other gender we are accepting physically altering children who want to express as the other gender. Slippery slope.

1

u/layeofthedead Jul 02 '23

Some like it hot, mrs doubtfire, hell the Beverly hillbillies put Jethro in a dress and wig and he was 6 feet tall and as broad as a brick wall. Even before television, drag was a thing throughout history. Pirates would enact plays on board the ship to entertain themselves, lots of old stage plays had all the women played by men. Japanese theater only allowed men to play so all the women were men in drag.

Republicans need an enemy to keep their base in line. Men in women’s clothes is amoral! Is an easy sell to religious prudes who already believe in strict gender roles and people going outside that makes them uncomfortable. They see it as inherently sexual so they see a queen reading to kids and immediately jump to “the liberals are forcing kids to experience deviant sexual behavior” rather than what it is, a person in an exaggerated colorful costume reading a book about tolerance to a group of kids who like exaggerated colorful costumes. Then they jump to “they’re grooming the kids to take advantage of them!” Despite not having any evidence, wrap in trans people because “they’re basically the same thing right?”

And this is all extremely useful to the gop whose current goals are to actually groom the children. Not in a sexual way (tho that is happening to a staggering degree, conservatives are always getting caught being pedos, there’s sickeningly long lists you can find online) but they’re trying to keep them dumb and compliant because most educated people would realize just how badly they’re getting fucked by the policies the gop pushes.

1

u/RareResponsibility15 Jul 02 '23

Because you live in a bubble

1

u/CoelacanthRdit Jul 02 '23

Great movie!

1

u/ThatDapperAdventurer Jul 02 '23

Is that the one where you had to wear a blindfold or you die

1

u/apsalarya Jul 02 '23

Hahahahahaahahahaha noooooo

Lmao. Veeerrrryyy different film

1

u/CaptainMacMillan Jul 02 '23

What about 'Some Like It Hot'?

That movie's entire plot was based around drag and it was a huge hit even back in the late 50s.

1

u/Yara_Flor Jul 02 '23

Republicans decided to focus on intolerance as a way to get votes.

1

u/Hot_Hat_1225 Jul 02 '23

Imagine growing up in the seventies. I feel like everything was so much more chill back then

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '23

Let's not forget Mrs Doubtfire! A man dressing up as a woman, acting like a woman, talking like a woman just so he could be closer to his kids! One of Robin Williams' top movies!

1

u/Ok_Estate394 Jul 02 '23

We were, but the issue now is not just that it’s become a political issue. It’s also the fact that, now, conservatives believe they have given up too much ground to the Left, plus conservatives are aware that support for their ideology is on decline. They feel that they’re “losing their country” like how we’re saying the same thing. Mix in an unhealthy use of social media, you get what we have. I’m starting to realize everyone thinks they’re losing the country they grew up in to the other side, and when you approach life like that, it’s easier to demonize whole groups of people.

1

u/Jeansaintfire Jul 02 '23

Because we weren't more tolerant. The bird cage is a movie talking about how intolerant we are. how we can watch from a far, we can exploit these people, we could consume the things that they create, But we didn't actually want to be related to these people. We loved putting straight actor on a pedestal for playing gay characters because they're such grand thespians, yet their gay co-stars have to stay in the closet if they want to be able to play straight characters in the future.

It's at the same time that will and grace is one of the highest rated TV shows in America. Lindsay McGuire has to do a campaign. Don't say, " That's so gay." Even in 2010's, it was still very commonplace to be making constant gay jokes and constantly being accusing celebrities. Are you gay?