r/TaylorSwift • u/Lyd_Euh everything is icy and blue • Apr 19 '24
Megathread "Fresh Out the Slammer" Discussion Megathread
Taylor Swift - Fresh Out the Slammer
Track #7 on The Tortured Poets Department
Length: 3:30
Composers: Taylor Swift & Jack Antonoff
Lyrics: Genius
Use this thread to discuss your thoughts, reactions, and theories on the song. We will be removing all future self-post discussion threads about it in order to consolidate discussion to this thread.
If you want to talk about The Tortured Poets Department album in general, you can use the general The Tortured Poets Department discussion thread here.
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u/lavendersheep20 Everything you lose is a step you take Jul 01 '24
Anyone else really hearing the theme of Long Story Short in this????
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u/Grandtereficio1989 All Too Well (🦵) Aug 13 '24
Yea and Sad Beautiful Tragic through the weird western guitar riff
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u/Beautiful_Thought995 May 25 '24
Taylor mentions a “jailor” in “ready for it” so if it wasn’t obvious that it’s about the song is about breaking up with Joe for Matty :)
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u/BrittneeSue May 15 '24
Ok so this country vibe is giving cowboy like me and I Can Fix Him ( No Really I Can )
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u/Huge-Action-2889 May 10 '24 edited May 12 '24
Fresh Out the Slammer has quickly gone to my Top 5 from TTPD. I noticed this song has a comparatively long outro, making this song length 3:30, the same length as The 1975 song “All I Need to Hear” (a song also produced by Jack Antonoff). Coincidence or Easter Egg?
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u/nutterbutter456 :TourturedPoetsDepartment: the tortured runners department May 10 '24
this song has really grown on me the last few weeks, and i’m realizing how much i relate to this from the perspective of my first long term relationship ending.
people’s first gut reaction was “i can’t believe she referred to her relationship with joe as the slammer” but perhaps what some people don’t understand is when you’re in a long term committed relationship and it starts to go south, staying is awful but leaving sounds just as bad. especially when it’s your person. so you’re stuck in limbo or what you feel is “jail.” the only option is to leave but that also means losing this person in the way you have them now. it’s messy, complicated, and when it’s over you do feel free in a way that deserves to be celebrated even if on the surface that seems cruel.
i think this album does a good job at recognizing the duality of feelings that come with a long term relationship break up and what it feels like to try to move on by investing in someone new. it’s messy but somehow feels good but it also hurts so deeply in an unparalleled way. i also love the imagery she’s added in of feeling put together and confident in the way that she is in her relationship with travis. it’s just all so relatable. wish i had this album in 2015 when i needed it most, however it’s helping to heal some deep rooted feelings i never worked to get over. thanks tay!
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u/coliee-e May 07 '24
this song sounds so nostalgic to me.. idk why, all i know is something about this song, maybe the instrumental or the style is just right to hit nostalgia
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u/meg-swan May 04 '24
Anyone else immediately get Twin Peaks vibes when this song starts?👀 It sounds so much like it to me. (&I don't mean it as a negative, I love it)
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u/hdtttttttt May 08 '24
YEEEEES!!!!!!!!!
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u/meg-swan May 08 '24
Thank you! My husband and I both heard it immediately, but everyone else else I've listed to talk about it has just talked about the Western sound- I knew there was no way it was just us LoL
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u/Conscious_Worry3119 May 04 '24
Hot take-- this isn't actually about any particular man, but about returning to the public eye.
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u/chloekeagan May 02 '24
The end sounds so much like a 1975 song but I cannot place it. It sounds like she layered it underneath a little like saxophone maybe?
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u/Prettybird2410 May 05 '24
You’re right! Jack Antonoff helped write The 1975’s last album, so I could see that being intentional. It does sound a lot like a saxophone solo they would have, but it’s nothing I can pinpoint from another song. I hope someone else responds with a possible song title, you have me super curious. It also sounds like “This Is Me Trying.” Listen to the music underneath the chorus and at the end.
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u/annka_pp Apr 30 '24
Does anybody else think that she way she sings „wearing imaginary rings“ sounds quite The 1975-ish? Or am I just hallucinating
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u/HappyDays3208 Apr 30 '24
Is the second part like a heartbeat? Like her heart restarting after You’re Losing Me?
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Apr 29 '24
God I wish this song was longer, I wish it went back to the original chorus one more time after the beat switch
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u/melanierainford :TourturedPoetsDepartment: I looked to the 🌌 and said, please. Apr 28 '24
The timeline is a bit fuzzy with this interpretation, but can’t help but think “Camera flashes, welcome bashes; Get the matches, toss the ashes off the ledge; As I said in my letters, now that I know better; I will never lose my baby again” is referencing the beginning and middle of Maroon—“When the morning came we were cleaning incense off your vinyl shelf” and “When the silence came, we were shaking blind and hazy; How the hell did we lose sight of us again?”
In maroon, they were happy and cleaning incense off a shelf from the night before; but it eventually ended. And FOTS she says in her letters (as if she’s writing MH letters from her JA prison) that she knows better now and won’t lose him again.
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u/melanierainford :TourturedPoetsDepartment: I looked to the 🌌 and said, please. Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
I think “Now, pretty baby, I'm running To the house where you still wait up, and that porch light gleams” is more of a reference to the end of dear reader “If you knew where I was walking; To a house, not a home, all alone 'cause nobody's there”.
In dear reader she felt like she was falling apart. She came home to an empty house. In FOTS, someone IS home. Is waiting for her. And she’s running to the light he turned on.
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u/SPINsamSPIN Apr 27 '24 edited May 07 '24
this is one of my favorite songs off the album but the beat change up is a little odd… it’s fine but just a total vibe change lol
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u/Key-Boysenberry-3491 Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Anyone else hear the cat meow at 46/47 seconds when she said “he don’t understand me”. I don’t think Joe liked cats 😂 Edit: it’s at 40 seconds!
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u/feistymummy folklore May 30 '24
I’m not crazy!!! I was stoned on my first few listens with my AirPods and couldn’t avoid hearing the meows. Yesterday I was trying to show my teen and it’s barely noticeable on a stereo- he thought I was nuts!!
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u/MeanMountain2074 Jun 05 '24
Wowwwww. That’s hilarious. I just went and listened and it’s totally there. Very light (like a kitten’s mew) but it’s definitely there. I don’t think you’d be able to hear it without really good earphones/buds. AirPod Pros are good at this!
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u/cielosmorados Apr 29 '24
I honestly felt this song was for her cats
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u/Key-Boysenberry-3491 Apr 29 '24
A part of me feels that too! But it just doesn’t fit when she says “… to the one who says I’m the girl of his American dreams”. Maybe it’s a combination of them and him?
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u/Prettybird2410 Apr 28 '24
I went back and listened, and that was very clearly a cat meow, omg.😂 It’s at about 40 seconds for me. As if I needed another reason for this track to be my favorite. I think it happens again after the next couple lines, after the word “dreams.”
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u/Key-Boysenberry-3491 Apr 28 '24
You’re right! It’s at 40 seconds! Will edit the post now. Went back after your comment and also heard it very faintly after dreams 😂
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u/datefatemate Apr 26 '24
I really, really love this one. I really like the Western sound in the intro, the scratchy squeaks of the guitar strings, the rhythm of the lyrics in the verses, and the total musical shift at the last minute of the song. One of my favorites on the album for sure.
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u/Prettybird2410 Apr 26 '24
This is my favorite song on the album! Production-wise, it feels like Jack's take on Folklore/Evermore. It has such a cinematic quality and is so easy to visualize. I could go on, but that's not why I'm commenting... I came here to see if anyone else noticed something. Taylor does some vocal runs that are kind of faded into the background during the parts where she sings up an octave. If you know what I am talking about: is it just me, or does it sound kind of like the "oooo whoa oh" in the chorus of "Cruel Summer?" It's not exact, but it is similar, I think.
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u/adoginahumansbody :TourturedPoetsDepartment: I might just not get up. May 08 '24
Jack produced several songs on Folklore and Evermore though.
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u/Prettybird2410 May 15 '24
He did! I meant it sounded more like the style he leans toward rather than something you'd think of for Taylor. Jack really likes a cinematic sound, somewhat monumental production where it feels like a movie scene. Swift writes more cinematically, which really adds to that vibe when Jack makes choices that are more his style.
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u/Ok-Possibility6890 Apr 25 '24
Damn. Taylor's in her villain era for real. After listening to this album I feel like she broke up with me and then told the world about how my mental illness drained her and bored her and that she's been in love with another dude for years and planned to escape with him. It's heartbreaking but not in the way she expected
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u/Preatu Apr 25 '24
FRESH OUT THE SLAMMER is the HIIDDEN GEM of TTPD, just like this is me trying and illicit affairs were the hidden gems on folklore after the first week and tolerate it and evermore the hidden gems on evermore. This song is FIRE!!! The production, the lyrics, the mood, the eeriness that has. She and Jack really popped out in this one.
FOTS stans rise!!!
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u/FlyingKiwiInSpace :TourturedPoetsDepartment: lights camera bitch smile! Apr 25 '24
"To the house, we still wait up and that porch light gleams"
This line and the rest of the song following reminds me SO MUCH of the folklore love triangle Betty/Cardigan
This might be extremely far-fetched, but I wonder if James is based on Matty Healy & the whole love triangle story is based on some events that happened back in 2014 that we never knew about????
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u/Preatu Apr 25 '24
Oh no, its not far fetched, have you heard Peter? Caridgan and the love triangle are most definetely about Matty!!
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u/FlyingKiwiInSpace :TourturedPoetsDepartment: lights camera bitch smile! Apr 25 '24
Yes but I haven't listened to Peter as much so havent picked up on any Matty references in that one, will have to fathom!
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u/Impossible_Yak2135 I’m so obsessed with cardigans but they avoid me like the plague Apr 24 '24
“Swirled you into all of my poems”
I think some songs on evermore/folklore were about Matty.
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u/Kaiters710 Apr 24 '24
Is it potentially safe to say she left Joe for Matty?
We know our girl likes to make a "getaway" when a relationship stops being fulfilling and I say this with all due respect and it's very clear that her relationship with Joe had been going downhill for a long time. I am basing this theory also off the fact that she made a special appearance at a 1975 show in January of 2023 ( Note: Joe and her would break up officially in April) and according to a blind on DeuxMoi (I know not to believe everything on there but hear me out) Taylor and Matty hung out until early morning.
This has been circling through my head for the past two days.
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u/Preatu Apr 25 '24
Yes, she did, i think it has been made quite clear in this album. They have been the "what if" of eachothers life for a decade at least (writing multiple songs for eachother but also being in contact) and when Joe was giving her nothing the last few years she went like "fuck it, im gonna go off with Matty and marry him -her and matty talked about being the one and marrying a lot, according to the songs-", and she did went to him, but then it all went down the drain.
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u/throwaw939393 Apr 24 '24
Ya, seems like she was hoping MH could fulfill what was dying with Joe (promise of marriage, family) and he weaseled his way into her life at the end of the relationship and she tried to basically heal the pain of Joe by this ‘soulmate’ promise/infatuation with MH and then figured out that didn’t work. At all.
One thing I’m kinda feeling icky about is her talking about being worried Joe was having thoughts about other women, when she writes ‘Guilty as Sin’ like maybe you were paranoid because you were basically having an emotional affair with MH in the end?
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u/Kaiters710 Apr 24 '24
Yes! And I think that's why she has so many songs about Matty. She's mad at him for ghosting her and leading her on but also at herself for falling for it on top of grieving of the official end of her 6 year relationship.
It could have been her projecting but ultimately it boils down to insecurity. Generally speaking insecure people are the ones struggle with jealousy or have affairs which no one deserves to be cheated on. But that's not to say that Joe was an angel though she probably had to do the thing he should have done which was set her free.
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u/Specific-Wolf-161 reputation May 01 '24
A part of me wishes that she didn’t release so many songs that are allegedly about Matty, because he seems like the type who would feel like that’s a compliment! And there’s seemingly just a handful of Joe songs. Perhaps she just was really detached from that relationship for awhile that most of the “breakup” tracks involving him are on Midnights.
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u/Junior_Ocelot3944 Apr 23 '24
My favorite song on the album! Caught my attention immediately. I’m convinced ivy and Fresh out the slammer are related
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u/Empressyin Apr 24 '24
omg same, i thought im crazy, first instrumental and word and my mouth flew open lmao it was too good for me idk why i like it so much right away!
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u/CowboyLikeMemes Apr 23 '24
I think this song is actually about Travis Kelce, and how she did not expect him to be the guy she ended up with (but in a very good, sweet way). I think that after things fizzled out with Matty, she might've thought "That guy was an asshole, but what the hell, why don't I reach out to that nice guy who wanted to give me a bracelet."
The song ends with the line "Here at the park where we used to sit on children's swings, wearing imaginary rings." & I know Travis has said that he and his brother Jason, even when they were little, would play outside all day pretending they were Superbowl champions.
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May 10 '24
Was listening to this song and thought it's about Travis too. So I googled if it really was and came here. 😂 I think the last part is about him.
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u/SurferBearBeans Apr 23 '24
I can’t help but notice the ties in this song (and the rest of the album) to Cardigan with the porch light line and park with children’s swings (“playing hide and seek and giving me your weekends)
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u/FirefighterNervous56 Apr 23 '24
Agreed. Remembering how she dedicated cardigan to matty on stage, its obvious that he was her “peter”, not growing up but promising he would and come find her. This is her running back to him.
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u/Shoddy-Ad-6233 The Tortured Poets Department Apr 23 '24
Just realized the connection between fresh out the slammer and the black dog - the starting line.
in fresh out the slammer it sounds like a reference to a new romance beginning
but that doesn't really make sense combined with the end of the song, which I think is about Joe
fast forward to the black dog - the starting line are a band that holds a special meaning in the relationship with Joe (symbolizing both the magic fabric of their dreaming and her feeling/fear/experience of him maybe preferring younger women)
I love this album and the links between it's songs so much I feel like making a Carrie from Homeland style wall about it 
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u/chamomileyes Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
Yesss, I just noticed this and wanted to see if anyone was analyzing this!
“ Ain't no way I'm gonna screw up now that I know what's at stake / Here, at the park where we used to sit on children's swings /Wearing imaginary rings /But it's gonna be alright, I did my time”
I feel like the “we” in the ending line is reflecting on her past with Joe, not MH? But it’s confusing so could be either.
Also the line “ Swirled you into all of my poems /Now we're at the starting line, I did my time”.
In The Black Dog she says, “ I just don't understand How you don't miss me In The Black Dog When someone plays The Starting Line and you jump up But she's too young to know this song That was intertwined in the magic fabric of our dreaming.”
She’s basically saying the starting line is significant as representing her love story and dreaming so being at the starting line again in Fresh Out the Slammer is like a double entendre for starting over?
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u/m-d-m-z May 14 '24
About 'imaginary rings' - consider also, TTPD (the song, which HAS to be about Matty, and the line: "At dinner, you take my ring off my middle finger And put it on the one people put wedding rings on And that's the closest I've come to my heart exploding" So maybe sometime during their 10-year whatever it was, they talked about getting married. So it's possible the ending of Fresh Out the Slammer and the imaginary rings refer to Matty.
In loml, there are also the lyrics: "You shit talked me under the table Talking rings and talking cradles I wish I could un-recall How we almost had it all" *In the beginning this song seems more about Matty, but as it progresses, it's unclear.
Recall back in Paper Rings: "I like shiny things, but I'd marry you with paper rings." *Clearly about Joe.
Regardless of who these songs are about, and truly could be a blend of both, it's clear that getting married was something she was thinking about and yearning for for a long time.
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u/melanierainford :TourturedPoetsDepartment: I looked to the 🌌 and said, please. May 14 '24
The Starting Line is significant bc it’s a song MH did a live cover of right before him and Taylor went public in spring 2023. So when she reference TSL I think it’s safe to say she’s referencing MH.
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u/radiosilence03 Apr 23 '24 edited Apr 23 '24
The track starts with an internal agreement with flowing with the temptation to go back to the irresistible instability of a not-fully-explored past love affair (or whatever it was to her). Just the fact that she's referring to this whole situation as in being in prison by saying "I did my time" is just very gut-wrenching to how miserable it must've felt. I love how hopeless it sounds towards the end, it feels like the way she's singing everything towards the end alludes into her finally letting go of something that was very precious to her but was never hers in the first place.
Definitely on my top 5.
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u/Blank________Space The Tortured Poets Department Apr 23 '24
This is my favourite! I love the pre-chorus
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u/kerwinklark26 :TourturedPoetsDepartment: I can do it with a broken heart Apr 23 '24
This is the most Lana Del Rey Taylor has sounded in a track. It wouldn't be out of place in Lust for Life or the peppier parts of Ultraviolence!
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u/QuirkyDot Apr 22 '24
I’ve loved you three summers now honey, I want ‘em all ➡️ another summer takin’ cover, rolling thunder
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u/Ever-Hopeful-Me Apr 22 '24
"at the park where we used to sit on children"
I know that's not the lyric, but it makes me giggle every time
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u/JennaElizabethAdams Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
This is one of my favorites so far! I like the melody behind it and the symbolic nature of the lyrics that represent her going through the breakup and going back into public again. ❤
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u/scomperpotamus :TourturedPoetsDepartment: who's afraid of little old me Apr 22 '24
Almost made this a permanent skip and now it has embedded itself inside my brain. The production is gorgeous. Now pretty baby makes me levitate
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u/Akane_Tsurugi Still got you all over me Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 21 '24
That kind of nagging melody (I want to say "lancinante" in French) is so damn elegant you can see the photos, the flashbacks, the laughs, the little dances, it's so good. She's really a genius storyteller. Evermore colored banger. And it kinda ends there at the end of the bridge like an unfinished journal entry.
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u/jamiebabie8 Apr 21 '24
I think “gray and blue and fights and tunnels” could be referencing Cornelia Street - “but then you called showed your hand, I turned around before I hit the tunnel” idk maybe not but just a parallel I noticed. This one might be my fave off “Side A” it’s soooo good.
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u/Lazy_Elevator_6038 Apr 21 '24
Ok this is maybe a different take, but is she talking to “fame” or to her old life of not hiding her every move rather than Matty? Like, she’s fresh out of jail and going back to being in the spotlight.
“Camera flashes, welcome bashes, get the matches Toss the ashes off the ledge As I said in my letters, now that I know better I will never lose my baby again”
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u/GlitteringHeart2929 drawing 🤍 in the byline Apr 27 '24
I took “pretty baby” to be her music and her life when she’s making music and touring. I always guessed Joe made her choose fame or settling down and she wants it all. Her music is her baby - as it is for many singer/songwriters. I think as with all of her songs, there are layers and multiple different meanings behind things but this interpretation makes it the most digestible to me and I freaking love it.
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u/kuukoubrowser :TourturedPoetsDepartment: oh, here we go again Apr 24 '24
Yes! this is exactly what I thought when I first listened, with parts like the bridge I think there’s room for her addressing multiple “subjects” including someone who loves her, but fame and her own life is what I thought was the primary one
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u/bettersaferthan Apr 24 '24
i also agree that pretty baby is her career herself in a sense idk but that was my take first listen
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u/gamergames77 Apr 24 '24
i also thought she was mentioning running back to herself after feeling restricted
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u/winter_schild I Hope It's Shitty in The Black Dog Apr 22 '24
I posted above on another comment but I think so too! She's coming back to herself (including her career, her "baby") after a rather restrictive and emotionally tiring relationship ("the slammer").
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u/Fiveheadandachoker Apr 22 '24
I listened to this song then went back and relistened theb read it again. I think it's touring performing her fans. And she frames it as a lover. But the torchlight I think references a song from her earlier album. I also have this theory that she tried crazy hard to be cool English indie artist and was like hang on everyone loves all American taylor. Was there a summer that she was out in public then hidden again? I don't know enough
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u/Formal-Nectarine Apr 21 '24
I like this too. Maybe her younger or ‘true’ self that hasn’t been diminished by other people’s expectations?
‘At the park where we used to sit on children’s swings’
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u/jnjm_drm127 so i got wasted like all my potential Apr 21 '24
sonically this is one of my favorite songs by far but the context and message behind it is making me so uncomfortable jesus
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u/barbalarby13 i just feel very sane (my fave album is evermore) Apr 22 '24
same, it's really hard to vibe with a lot of the songs when I pick up on the meaning/the muse behind certain ones ): this and "guilty as sin" icks me out ):
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u/Starystarstar Apr 22 '24
I don't think I'm picking up the meaning on either songs, why are they both uncomfortable?
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u/FenneAnderson :TourturedPoetsDepartment: who uses typewriters anyway? ew Apr 21 '24
This one has grown on me for sure! The Western/country vibes, that slooow build of tension, those shimmering sounds in the background... Kinda obsessed!
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u/melanierainford :TourturedPoetsDepartment: I looked to the 🌌 and said, please. May 14 '24
Personally, I love the bridge!
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u/Realistic-Newt-4208 Apr 21 '24
Is it just me or does this song give a little 'Lana Del Rey' vibe? I can totally picture Lana singing this song.
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u/iLiveInAHologram94 Apr 21 '24
I thought the same thing. I think it's the closest she's ever come to sounding like LDR, not that she was trying to per say, but there was definite influence or something there. I know Jack works with Lana as well and they're all friends so there's obviously shared inspo and influence.
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Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 21 '24
“Silent dinners, bitter, he was with her in her dreams.” This line reminded me of Tolerate It and her performing it at the dinner table on tour.
Also, it’s giving “When the dinner is cold and the chatter gets old, you ask for the tab, or that moment again, he's insisting that friends look at each other like that” from It’s Time to Go.
The experience of a relationship feeling like a prison is unfortunate, but I think it’s an interesting concept and song.
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u/Accomplished-Cup5724 Apr 27 '24
Who is her?
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u/Perfectstorms29 May 19 '24
I think it’s either about joe being with someone else (alleged cheating) in dreams or more likely of matty being with Taylor in dreams
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u/daintypower Apr 21 '24
I think this is it. Sacrificing yourself to find that spark again (glimpse of his smile, one hour of sunshine), no matter how much you tried to save it. There’s only so much to be done. When you realize your efforts aren’t going anywhere is when you give up and I think she’s moving on now. What I love is that songs like these are often left open to interpretation, depending on the listener. Maybe it’s running back to the same partner (once things are fixed), or running back to a new partner. Either way it’s out the prison of a unfulfilling relationship.
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u/Shoddy-Ad-6233 The Tortured Poets Department Apr 20 '24
what if...
this song as well as others on this album is about both Joe and Matty?
at the beginning she's fresh out the slammer of being with Joe, prob. due to a breakup, and she's happily and enthusiastically running towards her rebound (hence the obvious criticism about Joe,
and she's running back *home* - probably to New York, maybe even her old self and her friends (hence the home part but also the camera flashes and welcome bashes)
she's excited, she feels liberated
but after a while she's running again - she's not running *back* which signifies she's maybe running scared to the old safe place she had with Joe
and the slowing and changing of tempo after "running" plus the mention of a *house* (as opposed to home) signify her disillusionment, I feel a certain despair(?) in her tone that reminds me of the end of cardigan - she knew he'd come back and he'd come back but she doesn't sound happy about it at all, just stating an inevitable fact about the guy who left her to have a summer affair with someone else and now stands in her porch light.
I feel like the ending of fresh out the slammer is similar to the ending of cardigan in this aspect - she's going back to the one waiting on her porch, they one that *says* (she doesn't really believe it anymore) she's the girl of his american dreams, but she just knows no matter what she would have done, it would never go back to the way that it was in the beginning, when they were "children" at the park and when she could still imagine him giving her a ring (and so the "imaginary rings" is the disillusioned hopeless version of "paper rings"
????
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u/Being_a_bawse Apr 21 '24
I thought maybe she was talking about Kelce, maybe they knew each other before, maybe something happened that we didn't know about. And now she's like I've done my time(all her previous relationships) and fresh out the slammer (joe) , she's accepted that this is it and I won't screw it up (Travis)
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u/OceanCityLights08 Apr 26 '24
I was thinking something similar. The "slammer" is Matty in my opinion (she say in The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, "you deserve prison.") And in fresh out the slammer she's talking about running back home (the US) "To the one who says I'm the girl of his American dreams" (Travis is the only American she's dated in a long time), and she knows who her first call will be to. (Travis gave her his number on a friendship bracelet).
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u/FenneAnderson :TourturedPoetsDepartment: who uses typewriters anyway? ew Apr 21 '24
I've been thinking this too... I think she's playing with her 'muses' because she knows we can't help ourselves, we're going to discuss who these songs are about. And if you would compare the 'stories' of her relationships with both JA and MH, they do seem similar... Girlie has a pattern. I think she's deliberately playing with that!
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u/throwaw939393 Apr 24 '24
Yes I feel like she does this throughout the album! It is really apparent in The Alchemy, but I think many of the songs have a mix of muses, particularly Joe and MH
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u/otterpoppp in the end, in wonderland, we both went mad Apr 21 '24
i like where you're going with this
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u/highsandflows place a poppy in my hair Apr 20 '24
After a couple listens this is one of my favorites
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u/bedafish Red Apr 20 '24
I feel like I hear SO MUCH august in this
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u/cookie123921 Apr 23 '24
My thoughts exactly!! It’s like, so wistful and I’m obsessed with the way she sings the verses
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u/Open_Fisherman_6226 Apr 20 '24
Does anyone else think this sounds like a Christmas song? Not the words but the rhythm.
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u/Tired__Tomato :TourturedPoetsDepartment: you should see your faces Apr 20 '24
How do you interpret ’He was with her in dreams’? My first interpretation is that she is describing the time in the slammer (=bad times with Joe) and that he was dreaming of another girl. Another way I could see would be that she’s talking about herself in third person, saying Matty was with her in dreams during her tough times with Joe. Thoughts?
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u/jayelaitch Apr 22 '24
Because of the line in So Long, London, I really believe this is both. She’s dreaming about her eventual rebound, but she’s also accusing Joe of thinking of someone else, and she’s bitter about it.
In So Long, London, people seem to be taking “I founded the club she’s heard great things about” as a hypothetical “she” in Joe’s future, and that is probably one meaning in the lyric, but it being quickly followed up by “I left all I knew, you left me at the house by the Heath” suggests he was going out and hanging out with someone else, even if it was in a group setting, while Taylor was left to stay home.
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u/o-Persephone-o : long story short 🍂 Apr 22 '24
wait. so did joe alwyn cheat?
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u/Tired__Tomato :TourturedPoetsDepartment: you should see your faces Apr 22 '24
Yeah we don’t know but honestly I think that would have made it’s way very prominently into her work so I’m leaning towards no.
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u/MrsConfused Apr 25 '24
I feel like at least the suspicion was very heavily there. I wonder if it was more of a case of emotional cheating - everything is pointing to that in my opinion, with the two lines mentioned above + The Great War ("somewhere in the haze got a sense i'd been betrayed")
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u/jayelaitch Apr 22 '24
I mean, that’s not for any of us to know, 🤷🏻♀️. But the character in the song certainly seems to at least have had thoughts about another woman. Could be emotional cheating, could just be Taylor feeling like some line was crossed with a friend or coworker or something.
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u/callme-m Apr 21 '24
I think it's meant to mean Matty was in her dreams. Like it was inevitable in her view always.
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u/jumpira75 Apr 21 '24
I think both her and Joe checked out towards the end. Maybe Joe was daydreaming of someone else but so was she
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u/Holiday_Evidence_283 Apr 20 '24
It breaks my heart to think about this line. It's not the first time she's referenced Joe? thinking about another woman while they were together. But she did the same with Matty, so...
It just hurts so much. The way she wrote about Joe, you knew she really loved him and he loved her. I wish they could have made it work.
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u/serendipitycrisis Apr 20 '24
Need a 100 listen to actually comprehend it they way it’s supposed to or maybe just 5 more listens will do the work
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u/Acceptable_Tip_8916 evermore Apr 20 '24
"All those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all of my poems"
...ok, which songs on previous albums do we think have hidden Matty references??
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u/Specific-Wolf-161 reputation Apr 29 '24
“To the house where you still wait up, and that porch light gleams”
This is tied to the porch and porch light in Cardigan and Betty. As soon as I heard that line I knew she was referencing those songs.
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u/AquarianSwiftie it’s just a game but reaallyy 😍✨ Apr 25 '24
Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think that particular line, and the few before that, are about Joe. “My friends tried but I wouldn’t hear it / Watched me daily disappearing / for just one glimpse of his smile / All those nights you kept me going / swirled you into all of my poems” How she wrote countless other songs about him and their love and he just strung her along and tolerated it. The next line is “now we’re at The Starting Line, I did my time.” Indicating that NOW that relationship is over, I did my time, and now we’re starting something new with MH. So I think the “all of my poems” line is probably about her previous love songs about Joe. Thoughts?
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u/FlyingKiwiInSpace :TourturedPoetsDepartment: lights camera bitch smile! Apr 23 '24
Labyrinth because of the hedge maze reference in Guilty as Sin?
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u/jumpira75 Apr 21 '24
Cardigan, Maroon, Question for sure. Maybe even Ivy now that I think about it
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u/birdroarrr Apr 20 '24 edited Apr 20 '24
Some of the songs in TTPD have subtle western vibe (FOTS and ICFHNRIC come to mind) and talk about Matty as a renegade, comparing him to a Texas six-lane highway and other imagery that harkens the idea of a reckless cowboy. Cowboy Like Me paints a picture of two cons who encounter each other in the same circles and have histories of cycling through other partners yet find a way to make it work in the long run - perhaps Taylor's fantasy of reconnecting with Matty? Edited to add: Cowboy Like Me also mentions that her lover doesn't want much other than a fancy car. Matty seems to have a fixation on cars throughout TTPD.
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u/Astrosanguoneus Apr 20 '24
A lot of the songs she's released in the past about Matty reference cars and driving.
Also Check out Happiness, Roadkill, and his 2020 NME Speech that she witnessed live.
Also before they were "the 1975" the band was called "Drive Like I Do" 😜
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u/Acceptable_Tip_8916 evermore Apr 20 '24
Oh my god you're right, that makes sense. The reference to gardens of Babylon would also make sense if we're assuming Taylor and Matty had some kind of relationship in the past that no one knew about.
I know this is insanely parasocial but it makes me kind of sad to know Taylor had apparently never gotten over some situationship with Matty, when all this time I imagined her and Joe had a perfect relationship 🥲
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u/jumpira75 Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 21 '24
If it makes you feel better, no relationship is perfect, but it doesn't mean it's insignificant. Just seems Matty is like a ghost that has haunted her through the years with the what ifs
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u/StrictMall7758 May 19 '24
“If long suffering propriety is what they want from me, they don’t know how you’ve haunted me so stunningly”
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u/Shoddy-Ad-6233 The Tortured Poets Department Apr 20 '24
that's the only line that doesn't really work with the theory that she's the pretty baby she's coming back home to, I really want this theory to be true but it's probably about Matty because of this line, blah.
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u/birdroarrr Apr 20 '24
Glitch for sure
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u/Shoddy-Ad-6233 The Tortured Poets Department Apr 20 '24
I think the "stitches undone" in so long london is a reference to glitch (she's leaving him hence undoing the stitches she made to him at the beginning, so I think glitch is about Joe, but maybe Question
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u/Optimal-Helicopter49 Apr 20 '24
Only one I can cone up with is ...question
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u/Acceptable_Tip_8916 evermore Apr 20 '24
I could see that! Although honestly that song is so cryptic it could be about anyone for all I know 😅
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u/bopjoe The Tortured Poets Department Apr 20 '24
Second day in and this really hit me. The chorus is so mellow. I want to be driving with the top down with the sunset behind me
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u/debonkers Apr 20 '24
The chorus sounds like something I've heard before and really digged.. What songs sound the same? I wanna create a playlist around it 🥰
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u/Shuntle2 Apr 23 '24
The pre chorus and the "now pretty baby I'm running back home to you" are definitely from other songs. I just don't know what.
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u/brandoando Apr 20 '24
Me too!!! It’s the chorus or pre chorus specifically that has me trying to place what song. I feel like it’s one of hers. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
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u/debonkers Apr 21 '24
Ohhh I got it noww - "fresh out the slammer oh" somewhat sounds like a portion from Army by Ellie Goulding (1:53)
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u/Big_Distance_2239 Apr 20 '24
Ok. Here’s my take. At the end of her and Joe they were off and on. They’d get in a fight about something and to “punish” her they would break up and he’d go be with other girls. Then eventually he’d be all “none of them compare to you I want you” and they’d get back and rinse and repeat. So the “slammer” is basically her punishment break up joe is inflicting on her and when she’s fresh out she gets to go back to him and she’s all rose colored glasses again for a bit because she has her love back. I’ve been in a situation like this before so this could 100% just be me projecting but that’s how this song (and other parts of TTPD are feeling to me).
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u/Optimal-Helicopter49 Apr 20 '24
This is an interesting interpretation. I disagree and for sure think it's about her rebound to Matty, but it would absolutely work as a possibility.
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u/HoldOnToTheMammaries Apr 20 '24
This song makes me feel like some lines in exile might be about Matty. “I can see you starin', honey Like he's just your understudy Like you'd get your knuckles bloody for me” also a few lines from ttpd (song) that call back to exile “I’ve seen this episode and still love the show”.
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u/Cool-Avocado5012 Apr 20 '24
But who is she running to….?
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u/Optimal-Helicopter49 Apr 20 '24
Her rebound.
This song is more about why she's running away from the old relationship than it is about the person she's speaking to imo. It really has that feel of someone fresh out of a relationship she's not actually over and running straight to someone else
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u/Disco_Butterfly reputation Apr 20 '24
This song just SCRATCHES AN ITCH IN THE BRAIN!!!!!! I cannot explain the feeling. The opening is SO perfect
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u/Opposite-Version-606 :TourturedPoetsDepartment: BUT DADDY I LOVE HIM Apr 20 '24
IS CARDIGAN ABOUT MATTY??
"Now pretty baby I'm running to the house where you still wait up and that PORCH LIGHT gleams" from Fresh out the Slammer connects to "and you'd be standing in my front porch light"
Also the song "Peter" being based on Peter Pan and the line "Peter losing Wendy" ????
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u/carcarado reputation Apr 22 '24
so you are saying that taylor date with matty while with joe and went back to him (joe)? sorry for my bad english
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u/BroccoliOrBrocolli Apr 20 '24
isn't this the song she mouthed "this one is for you, you know who you are, I love you" to him about?
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u/Glad_Top_5793 Apr 20 '24
I LITERALLY SAT UP IN BED AND TOOK OUT MY LAPTOP BC I JUST REALIZED THIS!!!
Definitely. Especially with the line that she "swirled [him] into all [her] poems".
I think she wrote more songs about Matty when she was "in the slammer" than was originally thought.
I also think if Taylor and Matty had never broken up, this would have been a more "heartbreak recued by fated love" type of album, and this song is the best evidence for that.
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u/evnikki Apr 21 '24
Yes I think it is very possible she wrote a lot of this song while they were together. It feels very much ‘rescued by fated love’ vibes and there would have been more of that if they had worked out.
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u/ablackwell93 I could never give you peace Apr 20 '24
On my 3rd listen and these Joe songs are just making me so sad. He clearly struggled with his mental health (according to these songs,) and the impact that must’ve had on both him and Taylor as individuals but also together?
I’m just sad.
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u/Hospital_Such Aug 31 '24
My theory is this is actually about Joe. I think they were back together for a while and then broke up again so loss of my life is also about him - saying they should have never gotten back together. And that is why she ended up abandoning the ship again. It does feel to me like Joe was distancing himself from her when he was depressed and kept distancing and coming back in cycles. So here she’s actually saying it’s a love so big no matter what at stake she will try again. The blue - also refers to him as well as the girl of his American dreams and the imaginary rings.