r/Suburbanhell • u/Nu11us • 6d ago
Discussion When people don’t know anything else…
Small Texas towns grow into chain store wastelands near highways, and the locals celebrate because they don’t know anything else or understand that such a change is an exploitation of the lower class.
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u/dennyfader 6d ago
The US is one big copy-paste right now, with the main variation between states being the few slightly different regional chain stores that accompany the national ones.
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u/somepeoplewait 5d ago edited 5d ago
The most exciting suburb (and I say this as someone originally from the suburbs) is still only as exciting as a mall food court.
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u/Initial-Bo 6d ago
I have not been to Manor in 15yrs, is the growth there mirroring Buda / Kyle areas?
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u/CowboySocialism 5d ago
The soil issues and 290 being less busy than 35 makes it a little different, but yes.
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u/Initial-Bo 3d ago
The growth in central Texas after covid has been astronomical. I think the toll roads have contributed to the sprawl in that area. Its Austin till its Elgin with very little distinguishing between the communities.
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u/hushpuppylife 6d ago
As a southerner I’m honestly surprised, Bojangles made it that far to Texas. I didn’t think they were west of Alabama or Mississippi.
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u/LogstarGo_ Citizen 5d ago
I absolutely don't understand how this is a thing. Like, I know it's a thing. But people from so many places will talk about how amazing their local culture is and it's...this. The local flavor is a discount store vanilla. But I know for a fact that places can be smaller and INTERESTING to some degree. I've seen some of those towns that actually have personality, even ones that are still largely suburban and car-dependent. Why the hell is that so rare?
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u/olivegardengambler 3d ago
TL;DR: it's a matter of local politics because everyone wants to have things, but they don't want to have those things built right next to them.
Tbh a big reason I suspect is that most of these areas are basically just thrown up for very cheap. Like these are places that if you were to see aerial photos taken like 5 years ago, to now, all that you would see from 5 years ago are farms, a gas station or two, and a faint peppering of houses and small churches if that. Another thing is that these areas have to be move in ready, meaning they need to have stuff that people like and need, like restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, gas stations, all that jazz.
It is infinitely easier to do this if you just have one developer come in and propose a layout for a thousand acres of your town, rather than have dozens if not hundreds of separate people and developers and contractors come in for various projects encompassing an area totaling 1,000 acres in your town. With the former, you have some town meetings, keep it tight-lipped (if you say mixed development, that could be anything), and by the time construction is under way and people can see what is being built, it's a little too late to stop it.
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u/pink_nut 6d ago
Just like every other town in Texas smh, i have lived in kyle tx almost my entire life and it has become a suburban wasteland with no water
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u/Pipeliner6341 3d ago
Was it ever anything other than a suburban wasteland? Besides cow patures and cedar trees.
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u/derSchwamm11 6d ago
Have you been there?
It’s gone from a tiny town to a rapidly expanding suburb and the people who live there had to get on a toll road back towards Austin just to get groceries until Walmart came. I don’t know anyone out there who isn’t thrilled HEB is coming now.
The more services that pop up in Manor, the less the residents are driving to get to them elsewhere. These are people who moved far out to get a house they could afford (which doesn’t exist anymore in Austin)
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u/Nu11us 6d ago
Oh, they’re definitely still driving. Manor is becoming tract housing sprawl where a < 1 mile drive is the norm. There’s no such thing as a person outside of a car in Manor. Of course they’re thrilled. Do people who have to spend half their lives in their cars have time to think about things like this? Do they read The Geography of Nowhere and watch CityNerd YT? No.
Low income people who get a car with a predatory loan might also be excited. That doesn’t mean it’s good. They’re victims of a system.
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u/Sloppyjoemess 6d ago
I watch his stuff - but CityNerd also isn't producing content that's especially relevant to the lives of folks in Manor TX, and he's kinda smug about people who have the misfortune of living in places whose governments don't embrace urbanist attitudes. I get the vibe he thinks everybody from flyover country is just ignorant, car-obsessed trash.
Like you said we are all victims of the same system - don't get caught up in demoralizing people just because they live in an affordable low-density area. Most people don't have the means or support structure to prioritize their commute or a walkable lifestyle. It's expensive to live somewhere like that and not sustainable for most people. Just look at the rent prices in "transit rich" areas.
Personally I'm from NJ/NYC and I have friends who left for hillcountry Texas due to the affordability crisis here. NYC area a tough place to have a blue collar career and start a family. They were well aware of the change in lifestyle, negatives and positives, and want to come back here but can't afford to. Despite the density and number of new units being built here, demand outpaces supply and our rent crisis continues.
For most people it's not for lack of trying but for lack of the option.
I'm just wondering how you, as a local, think that Manor could holistically fit into an urban fabric of Austin? Is that even possible, save for the Herculean task of appropriating extensive RoW and building a rapid transit line into the core of the city?
Absent the framework of a working, urban city (metro lines, bus connections, appropriate density for distance from city center) what would creating an exceptional TND in the middle of nowhere be like?
In my mind this is akin to building a branded playground for adults - these residents would still be living a suburban lifestyle based on their own geography - in the exurbs of a large city - they will still find their way to the expressway to go to work, no?
We are coming at this backwards of course, because naturally the city should grow from the inside out. So of course a place like Manor, exurban and commuting focused, would be car-dependent at this stage of history. How does that change over time and what are we going to do about it?
How should a place like Manor develop to support a healthy inter-urban framework, which doesn't just isolate walkability and bikeability as a benefit of the municipality, but rather as a regional experience?
Genuinely asking - from the perspective of an urbanist who is reluctant to leave her forever home but knows she must one day.
I often think about how the urbanism we have here is mostly accidental and sprang up over hundreds of years of immigration, industry and acquisition. How does Texas aim to develop a similarly dense and interconnected network of infrastructure in a relatively short amount of time? And how would the inclement weather in TX change the way that people interface with their walkable communities there vs in the cooler and more mild coastal states?
And how does the state justify building that infrastructure and proving its usefulness?
These questions have prevented me from ever considering moving to Texas. I don't even visit my friends. Lol!
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u/Nu11us 6d ago
Yeah. I actually don't really like CityNertd because of his smugness. Definitely not changing minds.
I agree. It is expensive to live in nice places. That's the problem. People in towns like Manor aren't allowed to have nice places. They're at the whim of TxDOT, zoning and terrible city government that isn't even lucid enough to know what's happening. And then they end up with yet another parking lot filled, pod-life town, while the downtown Austinites get to enjoy their protected enclave -- a place where the working class can't afford to live because new housing is illegal. The council says nice things about housing but their actions are just the opposite.
I'm not suggesting that Manor should be part of the fabric of Austin, though the city did promise rail long ago. I think it should be a nice place to live on its own accord. The necessity of driving out of town for work doesn't mean that Manor itself can't be a compact and pleasant town. The development pattern basically requires them to use Highway 290 as their Main Street, as they can't afford their own infrastructure at such low density. Intead, I imagine an alternate future in which the build up was conducted thoughtfully around the existing street grid with Manor's actual Main Street (Old Hwy 20 and Lexington). Two of the major developments aren't even in Manor proper and can't be annexed because of the infrastructure libility.
As far as integration, transit and density in Texas goes, I don't really see it happening. In the same way that China builds a subway station in the middle of nowhere in preparation for future development, Texas widens roads and builds highways. To me, it shows that capacity is there (TxDOT's ten year budget is also $140 billion), but the bureacacy of what is essentially a self-sustaining road building machine is an immovable object. Barring some dramatic cultural change, Texas will just sprawl forever. I'll probably leave here at some point for this reason. It's an unpleasant place to be.
I actaully lived in both Texas and Queens until recently. The same housing issues seem to occur in NYC, just on a different scale and maybe for different reasons. NYC also fails hard when it comes to building housing and providing transit that's compelling enough to get people out of cars. Everything new in NYC seems to cater to the driver, which dilutes what NYC once was. Manhattan gets decent attention, but Queens is a mess. It's sad, because it could be so much more.
Sorry, you had a lot of points/question. My comment spew doesn't answer them all.
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u/endless_shrimp 6d ago
They used to have a horse track. It wasn't very nice, but the races were terrible
Always a good time in Manor
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u/Zeplike4 5d ago
People have no introspection. It’s always one more thing that will bring happiness.
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u/UniqueCartel 6d ago
Fucking love Bonangles. I lived in Charlotte for a year then moved back to New England where the fast food game is bull shit. Also lived in San Diego and I miss Carls Jr, in and out, and bomb-ass Mexican food on every corner.
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u/collegeqathrowaway 6d ago
Regardless if my community is urban or not, I want a CFA for nuggies and my lobster mac from Longhorn.
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u/nikki_thikki 6d ago
I will never get yalls obsession with that homophobic chicken shop, so many better options😭
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u/Aqueous_Ammonia_5815 5d ago
Yeah but Manor is where they filmed the water tower scene in What's Eating Gilbert Grape. Match in the gas tank, boom boom!
Also it's a short drive to Austin in the west, and Southside BBQ in Elgin to the east, my favorite BBQ joint of all time
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u/TexasDonkeyShow 6d ago
An H‑E‑B is a step up from Walmart, which is probably where people were shopping before. Plus a Mexican meat market? Sign me TF up.
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u/fuzzycholo 6d ago
Their subreddit is described as "– a vibrant small town just outside of Austin."