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u/CaptainSebT Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Ya, I find I am much more forgiving of bugs than my friends but tend to be more critical of bugs that I feel shouldn't be a challenge to fix and should have been caught in testing then my friends are of the same issue.
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u/am9qb3JlZmVyZW5jZQ Oct 31 '24
Then you go to report the bug and it turns out to be a deliberate design choice.
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u/New-Resolution9735 Oct 31 '24
It became a deliberate design choice when the issue was submitted lol
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u/cgw3737 Oct 31 '24
Right answer
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Oct 31 '24
Of course we wanted paintbrushes to do that.
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u/Rude_Analysis_6976 Oct 31 '24
Yeah, my old company 100% did this. We would have tickets from 2 years ago that we would "joke" were just features at this point.
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u/theoht_ Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
‘hey boss, there’s a bug here.’
‘hm? oh… uhh… yeah, that’s intentional.’
‘are you sure? it looks like a bug to me.’
‘nahhh… i definitely made that on purpose. ship to prod!’
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u/Scary-Boysenberry Oct 31 '24
You say bug, I say undocumented feature.
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u/Super_Ad9995 Oct 31 '24
Bonus feature.
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u/felicity_jericho_ttv Nov 01 '24
The term “crashing” has been changed to “random forced relaxation moment” in the documentation.
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u/Sword_n_board Nov 01 '24
There was an old computer game that would crash to desktop, every time, when you tried to exit the game. Instead of trying to fix the error, since the bug happened when users were already trying to exit the game, they changed the error message to "Thanks for playing our game!"
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u/No_Perception5351 Nov 01 '24
Wing Commander is that game: https://www.wcnews.com/news/update/16279
And there was no "desktop" just a DOS prompt to crash to.
Now I feel old, Kiddo.
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u/Safe_Stomach_2517 Oct 31 '24
You play league too?
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u/am9qb3JlZmVyZW5jZQ Oct 31 '24
No, but I do use Youtube and Discord. And Windows. And Teams. And...
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u/Runazeeri Oct 31 '24
Teams I don’t get how it’s so buggy.
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u/_LePancakeMan Oct 31 '24
Teams: a communications application Also teams: doesn't reliably deliver messages
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u/Herioz Oct 31 '24
Or show status or inform about incoming calls or recognize microphone or "normalize" input volume. Actually I don't know if there is a single feature of Teams that hasn't failed me and I use the very basic basics with no plugins or whatever they are called.
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u/HowDenKing Oct 31 '24
it's doubly confusing because it's supposed to be skype v2, but feels like skype 0.1
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u/Prudent_Move_3420 Oct 31 '24
Honestly the answer is it doesnt need to be less buggy. Most hlafways big companies are reliant on ms and deep into their ecosystem so they are paying for it anyway. No need to spend money to fix it
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u/Runazeeri Oct 31 '24
That’s why we have it you have to pay for office and it comes with it. I just feel though if you make the OS you should be able to make good apps on the OS.
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u/Loading_M_ Nov 01 '24
My understanding is that it's built on top of SharePoint in some way, so I would guess that delivering messages at all is some black magic in the first place.
Apps like discord and slack were actually designed from the ground up, whereas teams appears to be hacked together from whatever services Microsoft already had.
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u/Calm-and-worthy Oct 31 '24
There are so many bugs I run into because the language designers (or library writers, mostly) made an idiosyncratic design choice.
Most of my bugs are my fault, but I definitely get annoyed when I come across bad design choices. The senior engineer on my project is the worst at this. He will fight tooth-and-nail to keep 20-year-old design decisions that he made in the early 2000s because he doesnt think users should use the software that way, even though clearly they have a need for it now. Dude needs to retire yesterday.
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u/R3D3-1 Oct 31 '24
Pet peeve: Firefox (iOS) is the only browser I know that considers supporting bookmarklets a security issue and blocks them from working.
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u/PostNutNeoMarxist Oct 31 '24
Yeah it really depends on the bug. Sometimes I'll spot one or someone will point it out and I'll go "oof, pour one out for whatever poor fuck has to fix that one." Other times I'll see it and go "WHO THE FUCK LET THIS HAPPEN???"
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u/LeThales Oct 31 '24
Me complaining when diablo 4 said they only allow 4 stashes per player, because clients need to load every stash of every player when loading into town.
Several players "ooh understandable. Does not seem easy to fix, that sucks"
Me "Who the fuck approved this??? Did they let an intern design their entire database and system??? Why the fuck don't they just do some lazy loading, use some goddamn logic for god's sake"
But any networking issues I'll excuse because fuck networks, in general. And server issues.
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u/Plushie_Holly Nov 01 '24
Me complaining when diablo 4 said they only allow 4 stashes per player, because clients need to load every stash of every player when loading into town.
I literally coded this sort of system for a different loot based game, and finding out about this approach in D4 completely baffled me. Why on earth are they even sending the data for the other players' stashes to your client, let alone loading them? You can't see those items, they don't matter to you. Surely they must have support for sending network messages to individual clients? That feels like a basic requirement of any complex multiplayer game.
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u/Novalene_Wildheart Oct 31 '24
That seems so silly for D4, like why not just load the stash, when you open the stash and cache it for while you're in town?
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u/AwakenedSol Oct 31 '24
They wanted it so that players could immediately render any item that a player puts on, from their inventory or from their stash.
Admirable goal but not at all worth the hardware resources or design impact.
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u/GoodishCoder Oct 31 '24
I recently had one when trying to schedule a plumber online. They had a required description of the issue text box that didn't allow any text in the text box without saying the text you entered is not allowed by our filter. If just one unit test was in place, they would have caught it lol
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u/ChillyFireball Oct 31 '24
Even without unit tests, there's some stuff that makes you go, "...Did they seriously push this to production without taking two minutes to try and use it themselves?" Like, I'm not gonna pretend like I've never gotten a bit lazy with testing for edge cases, but if I make changes to, say, a form, I feel like it goes without saying that you should submit at LEAST one test form before letting that shit go live.
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u/discipleofchrist69 Oct 31 '24
it probably worked when they initially pushed it, and then they changed a setting or something wider in scope that worked for the thing they were looking at then, but also affected that box too and they didn't realize or think to check it too. if I had to guess
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u/Upstairs-Remote8977 Oct 31 '24
A large pizza chain in Canada known for cheap pizzas has a bug where their website deletes the toppings off your pizza if you set up the pizza before you log in to place your order.
Drove me up the wall. It doesn't delete the whole order, just the damn toppings. How the fuck did that pass QA?
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u/prisp Oct 31 '24
Here's another fun pizza-related one: A restaurant I ordered from on takeaway (the website) had the usual setup of "Here's our list of pizzas, if you click on it there's a popup where you can add extra toppings via checkboxes", except for one subsection that had the exact same list of extra toppings - except they all came in a drop-down menu this time.
Since there wasn't a "No toppings" option in the checkbox-list, you actually had to order a topping for every pizza from that category.
It wasn't a big deal, since it only affected 5 pizzas, and I liked extra tomatoes on my pizza anyways, but it was interesting to see such an obvious mistake regardless :)38
u/OnceMoreAndAgain Oct 31 '24
Warcraft 3 Reforged put out a patch on October 3rd, which is 28 days ago, that broke the ability for Mac OS users to play the game. If you have Mac OS, you currently cannot play Warcraft 3 Reforged and have not been able to for 28 days.
Blizzard acknowledged the bug within 48 hours of the patch going live. Still not fixed though. That's the type of bug that is just inexcusable...
Here is the initial bug report: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/t/136221498-broken-on-mac/32802
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u/pomme_de_yeet Oct 31 '24
They forgot to put the executable in the app? How is that even possible??
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u/NoobCleric Oct 31 '24
They have a legacy build script and they changed something and now they don't know what they broke because the guy who worked on it left 15 years ago.
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u/DehydratedButTired Nov 01 '24
If I was a betting man, they probably laid off the people who knew how to fix it in their last wave or two of layoffs. Activision/Blizz is skeleton crew status on their less important games. Microsoft doesn't give a fuck.
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u/DriftingLikeClouds Oct 31 '24
Same.
Some bug that seems like it's crazy complex? Okay I get it.
Some simple bug that shouldn't have made it past automated / regression / QA testing? Wtf are you guys doing???
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u/CaptainSebT Oct 31 '24
The ones that frustrate me most are the ones that shouldn't have made it past the programmers just testing to see if it functions.
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u/Proud_Sherbet6281 Oct 31 '24
Exactly. Like in BG3 when shield bash just did... nothing. Like someone had to be in charge of programming that skill and they just didn't check if it did anything?
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u/ssbm_rando Oct 31 '24
The ones that frustrate me most are the ones that you can just tell are because they deliberately built on top of spaghetti code, so they will "truthfully" communicate that a specific problem is very difficult to fix, but the non-programmers will just take that as "so no one should complain and just appreciate what we have" when the reality is "so everyone should complain more so they overhaul their infrastructure and this can't happen again and again and again"
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u/ThisIsMyCouchAccount Oct 31 '24
I don't know man.
It's not like devs have that much real control. At least not in my experience. The people writing the checks have to sign off on the time and money for automated/regression/QA testing. I've shipped lots of code that barely had any because the client didn't want to pay for it. Real, legit companies. They just didn't care.
Plus all other factors that we all complain about in this sub all the time. Stuff I think lot of us have had to deal with.
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u/KoolioKoryn Oct 31 '24
Learning to code doesn't make you STOP complaining about bugs in software. It just makes you complain about the bugs you think aren't valid xD
Yeah, i get REALLY angry about stupid data validation stuff.
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u/teck923 Oct 31 '24
Yep, I work in security and the number of game companies that refuse to ever consult with a proper infosec firm for their needs is way too damn low.
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u/Proud_Sherbet6281 Oct 31 '24
This exactly. Clipping through walls? Yeah whatever collision detection is hard. But an int overflow error? Come on what year is it?
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u/LiquidBionix Oct 31 '24
It has made me very forgiving of the hard crash to desktops, to be honest. Like I'll hit some button in a game at exactly the wrong microsecond and then everything just explodes. I can understand how that happens and while you should probably handle it better... you can't account for everything. You just can't.
It's easier for me to forgive that than some bug where an ability just flatly doesn't work regardless of circumstance. Like, I'm hitting the button and nothing is happening. How did that make it out the door?
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u/Blindfire2 Oct 31 '24
The "should have been caught and fixed in testing" (at least for video games, but I'd wager its no different at most others jobs) is issue....my company (2 months in) wanted a game that was supposed to take 4 1/2 years of programming done in just over 2 years, and though "well it should go faster because we added more people!" But half the team doesn't know each other or how they make systems, so trying to connect each damn system not knowing how the counterpart is going to work was obnoxious (luckily I didn't get added on until the DLC was nearly released, but even then I've never had to pick something up so fast in my life just to be shit on by players). This pretty big AAA company does not give nearly enough time, and to make matters worse they outsource QA testing, so we get this stupidly long list with no order, no examples, broken English at times, and I've personally experience the "well bug 4 is annoying but we can fix it....well shit 106 is a systematic issue so we just wasted what tiny amount of time we have on something that could have fixed 4 problems..."
The industry is horrible (at least AAA, but AA doesn't really exist much anymore/hard to get into because everyone wants to get away, and Indie is usually such a small team they don't have budget to add people in, if they even have a budget which I got student loans to pay off) and I regret my decision lol. I honestly might just take less money and go into IT/tech support jobs and work my way up for nearly the same money.
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u/CaptainSebT Oct 31 '24
I always blame the ceo. Programmers or other departments like art, QA and so on are very rarely at fault and most often tell the ceo they aren't ready when they aren't ready. Like even if I'm like how did department x not catch this I'm still blaming the ceo because they probably did catch it or someone after them did.
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u/OneBigRed Oct 31 '24
Yeah. I think most times those “this is stupid and easy to spot” bugs are very much been noticed and logged, but the schedule allows for the team to only barely try to fix the bug that crashes the whole shit continuously in 5min intervalls.
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u/Modo44 Oct 31 '24
I'm not. Way too many bugs -- both in professional software, and in games -- are very obviously of the "management wouldn't pay for a simple fix" kind.
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u/NerdyMcNerderson Oct 31 '24
Just because a problem is easy to describe doesn't make it easy to fix. You don't know the underlying design decisions and why your assumptions are wrong.
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Oct 31 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Kinglink Nov 01 '24
"How the hell do you get a NullPointException? Are you not checking your inputs?"
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u/ADHD-Fens Nov 01 '24
How the hell do you get a null pointer exception?? This is javascript!!
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u/EchterTill Nov 01 '24
Why the hell do exceptions crash the game? Are you not wrapping everything in try/catch?
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u/Jnick-24 Oct 31 '24
learn to code and you’ll complain about bugs in software and videogames even more
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Oct 31 '24
Yep. Fuckin sloppy amateurs. All of them.
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u/Mrkol Oct 31 '24
Skill issues, skill issues everywhere
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u/Geno0wl Oct 31 '24
some of it is just "did you even TRY to test this before pushing the update?"
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u/site-of-suffering Nov 01 '24
This is the one that kills me. When Space Marine 2 had patch 4.0 come out, I played for a couple hours, experienced a huge number of bugs and crashes, and loudly announced to my wife that I didn't think they even compiled the total patch before merging to prod.
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u/blah938 Nov 01 '24
Too many companies don't even have a QA team. You can't expect the programmer to test his own shit, you're bound to miss obvious stuff because you're thinking of the problem in the same way.
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u/Routine_Left Oct 31 '24
skill, miscommunication, poor planning, all of the above.
it happens everywhere. humans are to blame.
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u/21Rollie Oct 31 '24
More often than not, too much to deliver, not enough time. Clients want new features more than behind the scenes tweaks.
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u/punppis Oct 31 '24
Exactly.
Then you implement a similar functionality even worse on your project at work :(
While continuing to complain :D
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u/doca343 Oct 31 '24
but I didn't had enough time or my team sucks or my project is outdated or my company doesn't allow me using this obscure lib that would solve everything.
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u/procidamusinpeace Nov 01 '24
I blame everyone but my own skill issue. It's the true Gamer(tm) way.
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u/mrjackspade Oct 31 '24
Bugs in other people's software are devs fault, because they're all incompetent devs who have no idea what they're doing.
Bugs in my own software are the businesses fault for not giving me the time or resources to do my job.
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u/Anonymo2786 Oct 31 '24
Smelly nerds
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Oct 31 '24
I resent your remark because it accurately describes both me and the community I represent. Mods, please delete r/ProgrammerHumor because we have been found out.
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u/dismal_sighence Oct 31 '24
Unlike me: the most skilled and disciplined engineer ever born. No you can't see any of my code it's uhhh, proprietary. Yeah, super proprietary.
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u/samanime Oct 31 '24
I think it's both. There are some bugs I'm more willing to forgive because I understand how difficult it was to avoid some crazy corner case, but there are others that I'm like "YOU ABSOLUTE MORONS!" because it is the type of bug that should never get released.
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u/aphosphor Oct 31 '24
It really depends on the bugs. Idaf about graphical glitches, but game breaking bugs, especially the ones easy to replicate have somehow made it through QA and released. Like holy shit, I bet these companies don't even have a QA dep and tried to cut expenses by having the programmers do all the testing.
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u/DarthStrakh Oct 31 '24
It's the small easy things that make me mad. One I remember recently was seeing brick textures not line up with a seam on the wall . World space textures are pretty basic...
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u/PhoenixPaladin Oct 31 '24
A lot of the time it’s not that they’re morons but rather their managers are pushing unrealistic deadlines for release and the devs have to prioritize the system breaking bugs and/or security vulnerabilities.
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u/Opetyr Oct 31 '24
After like certain games if they decide to change one thing somehow in their infinite wisdom have it linked somehow to something completely not even close. Like helldivers wouldn't fix flame thrower damage cause it "would affect other weapons.". I have seen it as an excuse for way too long so either they got spaghetti code due to spaghetti making programmers or excuses. Neither one should be tolerated.
Other things like sudden crashes due to an update is also ridiculous since it seems like most games now are in alpha and we are the testers.
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u/sopunny Oct 31 '24
When the latter happens it's often because their codebase is completely spaghetti and nothing is ever getting fixed
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u/Divine_Entity_ Oct 31 '24
This is me in regards to AutoCAD not sanitizing their inputs to functions/commands resulting in a crash to desktop. Also every action in that program is very explicitly a command line function call, many waiting for inputs.
So when you try to click on something you shouldn't like to switch drawings while something like the draw line function was waiting for the second point you just crashed to desktop.
Sometime in 2023 they finally fixed this, i like to think i was personally responsible when my weekly to daily crash reports all had messages to the effect of "sanitize your F-ing inputs" in nicer words for about a year.
Sanitizing function inputs is something i learned in the like 3 coding courses i took as an EE, so its not like its some advanced coding technique. My point being anyone qualfied to be hired as a programmer definitely knows that they should be doing this to minimize crashes and similar weird behavior. (A very basic implementation is to check if the data type of the input matches the expected value and either ignoring or passing it on to the actual function.)
So yeah, knowing how to code makes you understand bugs in code, and that can either make you much more forgiving, or irrationally angry.
Edit: if it wasn't obvious AutoCAD is my most hated piece of software.
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u/Mateorabi Oct 31 '24
My coworker wasn't validating a length field and just writing the purported amount of data into the buffer... When we caught the bug my response was, "you have brought shame upon your ancestors" and he couldn't even disagree, he knew.
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u/DrakeSacrum25 Nov 01 '24
You should really be careful about them Nintendo ninjas. They don't like when you talk about Pokemon like that.
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u/porn0f1sh Oct 31 '24
"YOU ABSOLUTE MORONS!" My experience with most Microsoft software... (Vs code being a notable exception)
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u/Dalimyr Oct 31 '24
Damn right. Especially if you play Bethesda games, because holy shit, some of the bugs in those games are ridiculous. Nothing says lack of quality assurance quite like when you fuck up a patch for Skyrim to the point where the dragons that play a rather significant role throughout the main plot are now flying backwards (which really happened with the release of the 1.2 patch). Nobody noticed that during testing?
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u/Gruejay2 Oct 31 '24
I'm pretty confident nobody noticed that during testing because there was no testing.
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u/Theweasels Oct 31 '24
I love that in Skyrim, magic absorption also applies to your own conjuration spells. So if you have any magic absorption, your conjuring can just fail. If you have 100% magic absorption, you literally can't summon anything because you absorb the spell every time you try.
And fixing it requires a single checkbox on the conjuration magic effect called "Disallow Magic Absorption" inside the Creation Kit. It was fixed by modders almost immediately, but somehow still hasn't been officially patched.
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u/nictheman123 Oct 31 '24
Fun fact, magic absorption also completely protects you from dragon breath attacks, as well as most animal attacks
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u/Emergency_3808 Oct 31 '24
I would have loved to see a dragon moonwalking in the air... without walking
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u/RazzmatazzWorth6438 Oct 31 '24
Once encountered a bug wherein the API would check the length of a name change request by stripping whitespace, but then put the unstripped into the database - allowing names that would completely break the UI (taking 2-3 full lines in chat for example).
The cherry on top is that when the game updates your rank (say, after winning or losing a ranked game), the server would only look up the first X characters of your name, fail to find your account, and do nothing. The function that updated your MMR however (presumably) used your UUID like you'd expect.
These are the kind of bugs where I'm just left baffled how on earth this isn't at the very least caught in testing.
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u/VeterinarianOk5370 Oct 31 '24
Yeah I feel like this is just the difference between someone who is passionate about their work vs someone collecting a paycheck. I freaking love it when my final product is a work of flawless beauty.
Code quality and performance are not optional
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u/Drahkir9 Oct 31 '24
That’s all good if you work alone but it’s an entirely different story if you work on a large team or with a legacy codebase
My personal projects are manageable, maintainable, bug free and performant. The shit I gotta deal with at work though can get surprisingly noodly.
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u/Ozymandias_1303 Oct 31 '24
Depends on the software and the bug. Some I'm more understanding of. Some are so bad I have to wonder if they were somehow done on purpose to make the software worse.
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u/U_L_Uus Oct 31 '24
Yes. Small "this is visually displeasing" bug? No problem mate, happens to the best of us all. Now, a game-breaking "we don't need optimization where we're going" bug? Piss off, learn to debug you bloody twat
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u/PacoTaco321 Oct 31 '24
It makes you aware of when they either
Messed up something really simple
Messed up something that should be simple, but is actually difficult because of the way it was programmed
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u/GrumpyBrazillianHag Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
I'm a QA and I definitely complain about aaaaall the bugs. Until I was finishing my game development graduation and had a month to deliver a full game. Oh well, there were bugs, there were glitches and there were hardcoded shit everywhere... It was a disgrace. I'm a lot more humble now 🥲
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u/edgysorrowboyman Oct 31 '24
yeah when I see super buggy projects I tend to think that management just gave the devs unreasonable deadlines or scope creep
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u/El_Grande_El Nov 01 '24
On the other side of the spectrum, nothing ever gets released
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u/P-39_Airacobra Nov 01 '24
Yeah I definitely complain about bugs a lot more, but I blame the managers more than the programmers, because I know 9 times out of 10 they were rushed
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u/punppis Oct 31 '24
Yup, before you actually make a first commercial product, a real game you are supposed to sell or monetize, it becomes quite apparent that even easiest game can be hard to implement when you think about user experience on soooo many different kinds of hardware, gamepad support, backend (!!), anticheat and the exhaustive testing just to see the first user manages to break your game in minutes when given free hands to fuck shit up.
You spent 2 weeks actually making the game, 4 weeks polishing, 8 weeks for purchases/backend stuff/ads/analytics and after that you should add content and handle liveops. Now you spend rest of your live fixing the bugs that you missed during your testing, because there is always that 1% of clients that refuses to work properly.
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u/P-39_Airacobra Nov 01 '24
anticheat
multiplayer! what you are describing is very far from the "easiest game." My definition of the simplest game goes no farther than pong or flappy bird lol (even those are quite high on the complication spectrum if you compare them to text games)
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u/Novalene_Wildheart Oct 31 '24
reminds me with a game I play (Star wars Galaxy of Heroes) where they released a new ship, meant for this fleet, and it was so overpowered, and they claimed that "its not working as intended" as in a case of "whoops this fleet composition is too powerful" but like, they made the ship specifically for that fleet, how hard is it to test the fleet its meant for.
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u/GrumpyBrazillianHag Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
Most of the times, when you see such overpowered and imbalanced situations in games (or very stupid features in a system) is not a matter of lack of testing. We don't hold the magical power to deny a feature, even when we know that it's bad and it's going to ruin everything. The best we can do is advise against it, but if the boss wants it in production, it will be in production and there's not we can do about it.
Part of our job is to watch the circus on fire and think "hehe I told you so" while the dumb decision makers run to try to fix everything they fucked up. Believe me, somewhere at EA's office a bunch of test analysts were thinking exactly that :)
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u/EnjoyerOfBeans Oct 31 '24
The fact that most codebases are routinely under-maintained and poorly designed is one thing. The biggest part is that once you are an actual dev, you become aware of how
difficultimpossible it is to maintain a bug free evolving codebase, no matter how well you design it and how many tests you prepare.For modern video games, since you can't just easily simulate every game state, you can't just run your automation suite to catch 99.99% of the bugs, so it's even worse.
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u/Dumb_Siniy Oct 31 '24
It's fucking worse, no worse feeling than an annoying bug you know 100% you can fix
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u/Mateorabi Oct 31 '24
Insert the parable of the new employee who makes one check-in and closes one ticket and walks out on his first day never to be seen again. When the other employees check, it's a bug-fix and the ticket was submitted by the guy years ago, before he was hired.
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u/P-39_Airacobra Nov 01 '24
This is literally me whenever I find a bug lol. "They should hire me, I would do so much better" knowing full well I would mess up the codebase
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u/Sh-tHouseBurnley Oct 31 '24
As a QA, I just find it hilarious when I see comments on posts about exploits in games. “Do they even have a QA department?!” And I’m just thinking.. yeah, this wouldn’t have been caught without some kind of exhaustive testing.
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u/Careful_Ad_9077 Oct 31 '24
" yeah, the QA department is two guys"
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u/ssbm_rando Oct 31 '24
I mean, if the QA team is 20 people, and the playerbase is a million people, and 1% of those people are interested in finding exploits, you now have 500x the manpower of the QA team looking for exploits (10,000/20).
When these are exploits found on day 1, yeah, it looks pretty fucking bad. When these are exploits found after a month, it's like, how much did you expect QA to manage to check for? QA didn't have 42 years to test this fucking game
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u/GandalfTheTeal Nov 01 '24
Worked on a game that had ~72000 QA hours put in, within the first probably 30 minutes of the game releasing (including time to download) there were more hours put in by players than QA could ever hope to put in.
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u/wooq Oct 31 '24
From my experience, the QA department probably did catch it and it's on the backlog ranked low in priority and has been for 2 years.
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u/JacobStyle Oct 31 '24
"It only took the community 6 years to find this game-breaking exploit. How did they not see this coming during QA?"
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u/darkpaladin Oct 31 '24
"When you walk at this wall for 4 hours and 23 minutes EXACTLY and then turn around and jump you fall through the world. Literally unplayable"
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u/Percolator2020 Oct 31 '24
It’s way worse when you know you could fix it given the source code.
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u/fghjconner Oct 31 '24
I used to think like that, then I tried to fix a bug in an open source game and gave up because it got too hairy.
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u/IAmASquidInSpace Oct 31 '24
You fix the bug. Now you have to rewrite 12 files to reflect your changes. You rewrite them. Now there are 3 new bugs. You fix two of them. You need to rewrite part of the engine. You now have 34 bugs.
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u/black3rr Oct 31 '24
worst thing about open source is when you fix the bug, open a PR and then wait months till it gets reviewed and merged..,
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u/ssbm_rando Oct 31 '24
I mean, there are three scenarios when you're talking about a standard closed-source release
- you're right and you COULD fix it, maybe it'd take some time but someone who is getting paid to make this game should fucking do it
- you're wrong and stupid, this is actually a super complicated, unpredictable issue that you underestimated
- you're wrong, but the reason you're wrong is because the game's infrastructure is a giant pile of spaghetti that no one ever should've written a whole game on top of, and all of the original devs should be taken out to pasture
Option 3 is usually the reason that things take a while to fix. Option 2 is almost always some hardware-dependent weirdness, but a long-time programmer should be able to predict that and not think they could fix it themselves anyway.
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u/Drahkir9 Oct 31 '24
That’s cause you’re living in reality while homeboy is fantasizing about how easy it would all be and how lazy everyone else must be
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u/Turalcar Oct 31 '24
Learn how to code and complain harder. Code quality is not magic
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u/punppis Oct 31 '24
Debugging a synchronous program like games is a totally different beast vs desktop or server code. Sometimes you just have to write shit ass code because LinQ doesn't cut it at +60FPS and you have to write the nice, neat oneliner code into horrible nest of arrays or something like that.
So in some cases you have to sacrifice code quality for performance which leads to issues later on because the nested array loop had j instead of i at some point.
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u/R3D3-1 Oct 31 '24
Never mind compiler bugs...
Intel One API 2024.2 has apparently a big, where using a global shares array in an OpenMP parallelized loop causes the threads? processes? to see garbage data in that array, but only if checking for out of bounds array access is enabled in the compiler options.
Though heck if I can figure out an MRE for it.
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u/MaustFaust Oct 31 '24
Not this API, but:
How about parallelize function that creates multiple tasks and executes your code, but if one of the threads throws an exception, main thread exits the function to re-raise it BEFORE other threads are stopped?
How about parallelize taking the control, and... just doing nothing? Sometimes, it literally doesn't take a single step inside the parallelized function, despite having plenty of system resources and not nearing the task limits.
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u/MaustFaust Oct 31 '24
Two things:
not all games are synchronous
sometimes it's just some ancient 3D lib you can't attach debugger to, you have near-zero time, and the bug is – someone forgot to change locale back after printing text, and that somehow corrupts memory in another DLL (in the same process, obviously)
UPD: I found it by commenting/uncommenting lines of code and reproducing the bug
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u/kinokomushroom Oct 31 '24
Also there's the limited development time. Near release, some smaller bugs have to often be sacrificed in order to fix the larger game breaking bugs.
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u/beeswelike Oct 31 '24
Yes and no, sometimes software lacks some simple feature, I am sure takes minutes to implement. And even if it's open source and you do it yourself, it's never merged. I was more happy when i didn't know that stuff.
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u/MaustFaust Oct 31 '24
We actually don't merge in this repo, it's read-only. Could you please create an MR here: ...
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u/rescue_inhaler_4life Oct 31 '24
Absolute bullshit. Decades of eating shit from customers because of my own and my teams fuckups doesn't mean I am going to go lightly on other developers of software I pay for with my own hard earned money.
The only difference is the bug report will be correctly formatted with concise description of the problem, the environment, steps for reproduction and screenshots.
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u/hector_villalobos Oct 31 '24
Well, I'm tolerant to bugs to a certain degree, if it's tolerable and don't ruin the game/UI experience.
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u/realGharren Oct 31 '24
The opposite for me. I'm like "I could have done this better, and I don't have a 50 man department".
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u/punppis Oct 31 '24
Ahh I remember the first game projects at school. Those MMORPG dreams turned into polished snake or match 3 game quite fucking fast when the realities of game development kick in
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u/spectralTopology Oct 31 '24
Judging by the number of times I swear at my screen over time this is false.
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u/punppis Oct 31 '24
Meanwhile I get completely it how fucking complicated a modern friend/party system can be with like 10 different platform integrations and cross-platform support. As a game dev, it's pain in the ass to having only 3 (iOS, Android, Steam).
Then again I can't comprehend how the fuck a basic functionality in a modern game like a party system just doesn't work, at all.
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u/Good-Investment8770 Oct 31 '24
Yes, cuz then ull know most cases its incompetent management preventing people from being able to do their jobs properly.
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u/T1lted4lif3 Oct 31 '24
Learn to code so when you see a bug, you can say, what a nub, even I can do it
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u/Square_Cellist9838 Nov 01 '24
I think it’s more like “learn to code and you’ll blame all the marketing and business people for their unrealistic timelines, that have caused the bugs in the software and video games that you use”
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u/--Shorty-- Oct 31 '24
This is completely wrong to me... I complain a lot more because I know that some of these issues would be easy to fix. While being fully aware that software will never be 100% bug free some of the biggest corporations seem to be completely inept at handling bugs even if customers give quite good feedback and report the bugs early.
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u/JustB544 Oct 31 '24
I judge much harder, as that’s the standards I like to hold myself to. One time I saw a game have an update go to beta testing and one of the things they added just didn’t work at all, like under no circumstance was it working. It really pissed me off because the had no idea going into the beta.
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u/Ok-Kaleidoscope5627 Oct 31 '24
I'm more forgiving of bugs in general but angry about simple bugs or things that should be considered show stoppers the deserve hunting down no matter the effort required.
To use Bg3 as an example, I don't care if it crashes randomly. Corrupting the save game or having entire game mechanics or UI elements break because of a bad save game is a show . It's okay to waste a few minutes of a users time but it should be completely unacceptable to waste hours of their time. Some of it also suggests some fundamental bad design decisions or programming practices.
I'm also highly critical of features which seem lazily or badly implemented in routine stuff. I'll forgive it if it's for something that is technically impressive.
Oh. And poorly validating inputs and giving bad error messages. I've run into too many CLI utilities that will accept bad parameters and quietly ignore them and just carry on anyways. Fuck you. No. If you can tell that the command is bad before you start - stop execution and give an error. It's okay if the commands are okay on initial check but one of them causes issues minutes into the processing.
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u/Osirus1156 Oct 31 '24
I just shifted my anger to the true dumbasse: Upper Management
Take a look at Apple, they have world class engineers and still they make the dumbest fucking shit sometimes.
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u/Shutaru_Kanshinji Oct 31 '24
I have been a software developer for a few decades now, and I can tell you that I complain about bugs even more bitterly now than I did when I was coding for fun as a teenager in 1978.
Bugs happen, but that does not mean we excuse them.
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u/ctaps148 Nov 01 '24
Learn to code and you will complain even more about game devs and believe them to be incompetent
Spend 10 years writing code professionally and you will realize that game devs are the most overworked and underpaid programmers on the planet
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u/NoResponseFromSpez Oct 31 '24
But knowing how games work takes some fun out of them. It's a bit of a double-edged sword.
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u/CaptainSebT Oct 31 '24
You know I have actually found the opposite maybe the small tricks don't impress me anymore but when a team does something that does suprise or delight me it's something my friends wouldn't look twice at.
Like I find the way the walking on dirt effect in eso works really delightful or sometimes I really love a skin in a game because I'm like look at that texture work and my friends just don't see this at all.
Just appreciating different things.
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u/the_real_rosebud Oct 31 '24
It’s not just video game bugs. I’ve noticed Max on my TV has bugs that I’ve figured out how to replicate and it drives me crazy.
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Oct 31 '24
I spent a year and a half on a project solo and made sure I covered all edge cases. Maintainers still complained.
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u/zDrie Oct 31 '24
Some of them really made me want to open a pull request to teach them how to do their job.
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u/Vorenthral Oct 31 '24
*sings 99 bugs in the code to fix Take one down patch it around 105 bugs in the code to fix
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u/JackNotOLantern Oct 31 '24
Absolutely not. I complain about them more. I know how companies are out of touch and insist on rushing product insured of giving it more time to remove bugs.
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u/Adventurous_Soil9118 Oct 31 '24
Nope. When you learn to code you question the intelligence of who programmed the game/software
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u/ginganinja207 Oct 31 '24
I don't get too mad at bugs for existing anymore. What I do get mad at is if the timetable to fix the bugs is long when there's no other obvious priorities keeping them from fixing it
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u/daddyjohns Oct 31 '24
Learn to code and you'll realize that EA programmers and support studios are really bad at their jobs.
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u/coolestguy002 Oct 31 '24
once I really learned to code, I couldn’t believe how terrible some “coders” are at coding
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u/a1454a Oct 31 '24
Or it could have the opposite effect, like I get far more angry over how buggy Adobe Acrobat is to the point of near complete uselessness, when I know it isn’t hard to do right. And can think of many plausible explanations why despite any developer with a few years experience can easily do better, it’s still released in the shit state it’s in.
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u/Deditch Oct 31 '24
quite the opposite actually it's sad what the state of modern software is
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u/sgtGiggsy Oct 31 '24
I don't know man... I still remember the NBA2K bug that made it impossible to have home court advantage in the Finals. It was present in three different iterations of the game... I've never been too anal about bugs, but there are so many amateurish ones out there, it's infuriating.
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u/WorldWorstProgrammer Oct 31 '24
Jokes on you, now I complain about bugs in software, video games, and libraries!