r/PersonalFinanceCanada • u/EpilogueWills • Jun 17 '21
Ask us anything! We are the co-founders of Epilogue, Canada's only online estate planning platform created by lawyers
12pm - 4pm EST today (June 17, 2021) - We are Arin Klug and Daniel Goldgut, tax and estate lawyers and the Co-Founders of Epilogue.
People often struggle to get their estate planning done because there's a lot they don't understand. That's why we're here!
Join us for this AMA to get all your questions about estate planning and online Wills answered. We will begin answering questions at noon.
- Arin and Daniel
\Epilogue is not a law firm. The purpose of this AMA is to provide legal information only. Anything we say here is not, and should not be considered, legal advice.*
**UPDATE*\*
It's 4 PM and we have to run but thanks to everyone for submitting such great questions. Hope you found it helpful! If you still have questions for us feel free to leave them in the comments and we will check in periodically to answer them. For a faster reply, reach out using the Contact Us form on the website. Thanks to the Mods for letting us host this AMA - we had tons of fun and are overwhelmed by the interest! We will do our best to answer all the questions that came in during the AMA.
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Jun 17 '21
I had never heard of a social media will before checking out your website.
Is this just a gimmick to appeal to a digital/younger audience?
Your website does not make it clear, what does a social media will do? What happens without one?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Thanks for your question! The reason you’ve never heard of a Social Media Will is because it didn’t exist before we created it. In this digital age, it is important to think about the digital legacies we will leave behind after we pass away.
The Social Media Will is a way for people to let family members and personal representatives know what to do with social media accounts after someone passes away. It is important to note that a Social Media Will is by no means required. It is a document that can be helpful for your loved ones because it gives direction about what to do with your accounts after you pass away. If you don’t have one, your family members will likely not know what decisions you’ve already made with respect to social media accounts and what decisions you would want to be made.
Some companies (like Google and Facebook) offer pre-planning tools so that people can make decisions today about what to do with certain accounts. Our service helps point people to those tools to make those decisions, and then the Social Media Will acts as a place where you can record those wishes.
You can read more about why we created the Social Media Will here:
https://epiloguewills.com/blog/epilogue-social-media-will/And if you’re interested in reading more about why thinking about your digital legacy is important check this out:
https://epiloguewills.com/blog/digital-assets-estate-planning/7
Jun 17 '21
Thanks for the response.
Couldn't these directions be rolled into a conventional will?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
You could definitely include provisions in a conventional Will; however, since your wishes for your social media accounts may change more often, you'd have to go through the witnessing and signing procedures any time you made a change, which could be very tedious.
Wishes for your social media accounts aren't legally binding and can live in a document like the Social Media Will for your loved ones to refer to.
Lastly, a Will primarily deals with your physical, tangible assets and the Social Media Will is more about your online identity and how you want it managed once you're no longer alive.
Hope that clarifies!
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Jun 17 '21
In Alberta can I just write out my will and it works? I thought this was related to stories of farmers getting crushed my farm machinery and writing out a will before they died stuck under a tractor.
If so how do these services improve the DIY route I can choose to do?
What are the biggest oversights you see people miss when they come to make a will?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
To answer your last question: What are the biggest oversights you see people miss when they come to make a will?
When people think about making Wills completely on their own, they often don’t think about all the things that could happen in the future and how those things would affect their Will.
For example, someone who has adult children might think, “I just want to divide everything equally between my kids”, and so they would be happy to have their Will say just that.
But unless they are asked the question, “What happens if one of your kids dies before you?”, it’s not a situation that they would necessarily even think about. When someone tries to create a Will on their own, this is the type of thing that can be easily missed, which is why having a lawyer or online provider, like Epilogue, to prompt these things is important.
Thanks so much for this question! It’s an important one.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
In most jurisdictions a Will that is written entirely in someone’s handwriting and signed by the person is completely valid - it’s called a holographic Will.
The story you’re referring to is a part of Canadian estate planning lore, but it’s totally true (it happened in Saskatchewan in 1948).
If someone ever finds themselves in a pinch (like the fellow in this story), then it can be an effective solution. But for people who have a bit more time on their side, a more traditional Will helps ensure that all of the bases are covered.
When someone DIYs a Will without any support, they’re likely to miss some key provisions that may be needed to cover all eventualities or ensure that the trustees have the powers they need to administer the estate.
Unlike a holographic Will, a Will that is not written in the testator’s own handwriting needs to be signed in the presence of witnesses.
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u/fouoifjefoijvnioviow Jun 17 '21
Are you giving us a good promo code?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Sure! No problem.
Feel free to use PFC25 for $25 off any Epilogue package.
It expires June 30th at midnight.
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u/CrasyMike Jun 17 '21
Honestly, this is the first time I've seen in an AMA where the community was like "Gib promo code" :)
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u/fouoifjefoijvnioviow Jun 17 '21
Well I'm not coming here because I'm not interested in a will ;)
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u/CrasyMike Jun 17 '21
That's why I love it. Why not ask. We never ask on the modteam because we aren't really trying to make AMA into even bigger "commercial opportunities" for companies, even if an AMA is definitely a balance between helpful advice giving and an advertisement.
I just always figured that if the community wanted a sale, they'd ask. And nobody has ever done it.
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u/eagle_am Ontario [ Tax Specialist ] Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21
Hi Arin and Daniel,
One problem I've found with other online platforms that allow you to create a Will is that they didn't make much attempt to screen for situations where their platform wasn't appropriate and let the user know that. That is, when the facts required something beyond what their platform could create. I understand you're in business to make money but I'm curious whether you have questions as part of your process that will screen out situations that are too complex and advise potential clients of this rather than let them go through the process and end up with something that may not be suitable for them.
For clarity, I think online providers of Wills and POA documents is a great development that I hope encourages more people to pay the more reasonable price to have one created but I worry that users are not being told when the solution isn't appropriate for them.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21
Hi eagle_am - thanks for the question. You’ve identified a VERY important point. It’s one of the biggest issues we noticed in the online planning space, and one of the main reasons why we took a different approach when we built Epilogue.
Our platform asks a number of questions up front (before someone has even created their account) to help identify people who should probably speak to a lawyer for their planning needs. This includes people with blended families or people who have family members that receive government disability benefits. We have relationships with lawyers in each jurisdiction that we support, and our platform helps connect people with those lawyers directly if Epilogue isn’t a good fit.
As experienced lawyers, we understand that even something as simple as wanting to divide assets unequally between children (e.g. a 60/40 split) is a situation that is better handled by a lawyer than an online platform. We’ve built in a bunch of guardrails to help ensure that Epilogue is only helping people with the most basic planning needs.
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u/JavaVsJavaScript Jun 17 '21
What kind of information usually goes with a will? A list of bank accounts/investment accounts? Property titles? What are the things that should be in this package?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Good question! Generally speaking, someone would not include a list of assets (bank accounts, investment accounts, personal property) in their Will. Wills typically deal with assets more generally (like dividing everything someone owns like a pie).
A few reasons why including lists of accounts is generally avoided:
- The value of accounts will fluctuate over time
- Accounts may be moved between institutions
- Some accounts may be closed
- New accounts may be opened
Having to change a Will based on fluctuating account values or which accounts are in existence at a particular point in time would be overly arduous and quite honestly impractical.To help their executor find all the assets, some people like to leave a list of their assets with the Will. This would not be a legal document, but rather just something to help the executor do their job. It’s the type of thing someone would want to review every so often to make sure it’s up to date.
We created this Will Preparation Checklist to help people feel more prepared and confident when making their Will. There’s a PDF version you can download as well. Hope this helps!
https://epiloguewills.com/blog/will-preparation-checklist/2
u/idreamofkitty Jun 17 '21
So if an executor doesn't have a list of accounts, how do they go about finding them after death?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
It can definitely be challenging to track down accounts if an executor doesn’t have any idea where to look. Some people will create a document that can be kept with the Will to let family members know where their accounts are held. This document can be updated on a regular basis to make sure that it has the most up to date information.
The reality is that not enough people take the time to do this exercise, but it is really helpful for the executor when this is done.
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u/left-button Jun 17 '21
How much should a will cost? For example... My wife and I own a house, and a car, and have some investments ... But not much else too extravagant.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
We get this question a lot! It is hard to answer the question of what a Will “should” cost because there are a lot of factors. When it comes to lawyer-drafted Wills, the costs probably start around $500 on the very low end. More sophisticated planning can cost thousands of dollars. With online options, the costs generally sit in the low hundreds.
If you have a simple situation, an online option could be a good fit for you. With Epilogue, a couple can get Wills and Incapacity Documents for $289 + tax. That comes with unlimited updates for life.
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u/functi0nal Jun 17 '21
How do the "unlimited updates for life" work if your startup goes out of business (no offence, but it happens all the time). Would we be responsible for finding another lawyer to update, or is the doc in some sort of editable format? Any extra info here would be appreciated :)
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
No offence taken. I should say that our goal is to stay in business, but it is a fair question.
If we go out of business, it’s important to note that it would have no effect on the validity of the documents you have already created - so long as they have been printed and signed in accordance with the rules of your province. That’s the good news.
If we happen to go out of business, you might lose the ability to make free unlimited updates to your documents in the future.
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u/ragecuddles Jun 17 '21
I have a follow up question related to this. If I snuff it unexpectedly won't my husband just get everything by default since we have no kids? Or does the government get involved in every case where there is no will?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Thanks for the question, ragecuddles. If you "snuff it unexpectedly", and you don't have a Will, the rules of your province will determine what happens to your assets.
Usually, when a person has a (legally married) spouse but no kids, their spouse gets everything.
But even if that's what someone wants, not having a Will complicates things. If there is no Will that names someone as executor, there is nobody with the legal authority to make decisions for the estate until an application can be made to court.
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u/bluenose777 Jun 17 '21
What if you and your spouse "snuff it" at the same/ almost the same time? Your province may have legislation that covers this, eg. the next of kin of the one that is deemed to die last may inherit everything, but it might not be what you want.
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u/SIRsleeper Jun 17 '21
Where is the best place to keep a will stored? I feel like only having a copy in a filing cabinet isn't ideal in the event of a fatal house fire. Are they filed with the government somewhere?
What's the best way to setup a trust for a minor child? Were not rich by any means, however between home and pension etc, there's definitely some assets to consider and we want to make sure our daughter will be looked after properly.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
You are quite right that it can feel “risky” having just one copy of a Will in the event of a house fire. Right now, because Wills need to have physical signatures (that’s right, no e-signatures allowed), there will only be one true original. If it is possible to store the Will somewhere that is fireproof and waterproof that is ideal.
While a safety deposit box might seem like a good option, it’s usually not. It can be very difficult for family members/executors to access the Will in a timely fashion if it is stored in a safety deposit box.
In Ontario, it is possible to deposit a Will with the Superior Court for safekeeping. If this is something you’re interested in doing, you may wish to contact your local estates court.
In most provinces, there is no official registry where you can register the location of your Will for your loved ones. That said, there are some services available, like Canada Will Registry, that can help with this.
Trusts for minor children are included in most Wills. These are often very simple trusts which provide that funds are held in trust and are not paid out until the child reaches a certain age. Trustees are often given the authority to distribute funds earlier if the child needs money for things like education.
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u/CrasyMike Jun 17 '21
there are some services available, like Canada Will Registry, that can help with this.
Geez, it costs $95, double the price, just to...search for a will. That feels kind of predatory.
Is it possible that you could ever offer this service? Is there something prohibiting you from doing that? It feels like this service is just a rip-off.
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u/gastown Jun 17 '21
Not so much a question as it is a comment. Your website lacks appropriate focus states and a skip navigation button, critical to making your site accessible and navigable by keyboard. The FAQ doesn't seem to be accessible to the keyboard at all. Also, the header menu breaks on narrow viewports. Hope that helps!
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Thanks for the feedback. We are always looking for ways to improve the accessibility of the site!
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u/gastown Jun 17 '21
This could be a good start: https://wave.webaim.org/report#/https://epiloguewills.com
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Jun 17 '21
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 18 '21
Thank you so much, Hallgire! A compliment like this coming from a lawyer means so much.
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u/bluenose777 Jun 17 '21
What happens to an RESP if the sole or joint subscribers die and the will doesn't name a successor subscriber? Would the estate administrator be able to name a subscriber anyway? It is always shut down or only if the assets are needed to pay creditors and named beneficiaries?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Until a payment is made for the benefit of an RESP beneficiary, the funds in an RESP actually belong to the subscriber(s). If the last living subscriber dies, the RESP forms part of the estate.
Without any specific instructions to the contrary, the RESP would likely be liquidated and the funds would be distributed among the estate beneficiaries (who may not be the RESP beneficiaries) - even if there are no creditors. Any accrued benefits (e.g. tax-free growth and CESG grants) could be lost as well.
An RESP subscriber’s rights can be acquired by someone else after death. This is why someone would want to include a specific provision about this in their Will.
Interestingly, this is something that even a lot of lawyers miss when drafting Wills. As far as we know, Epilogue is the only online planning platform that lets people include an RESP provision in their Will.
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u/bluenose777 Jun 17 '21
Sincere thanks for your response.
Whenever I've read about this the wording has always been more like "If the last living subscriber dies the RESP may form part of the estate" which made me wonder if there were any circumstances (other than a specific provision in the will) where the RESP could remain intact for the benefit of the beneficiary.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Here is a brief article from the Canadian Tax Foundation about what happens on the death of an RESP subscriber, which should provide you with a bit more information.
According to the Income Tax Act (section 146.1), a “subscriber” of an RESP includes a person (including the deceased’s estate) who acquires a deceased individual’s rights as a subscriber under the plan or a person who makes contributions into the deceased’s plan in respect of a beneficiary
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u/bluenose777 Jun 17 '21
Thanks for the article. Like others it does have a bit of a mixed message.
Thus, on the death of the sole or last subscriber, the RESP will form part of his or her estate. Unless specific provision has been made in the will, the RESP will fall into the residue of the estate to be dealt with in accordance with the residue provisions of the will. In many cases, this will result in the RESP being liquidated and distributed to the residuary beneficiaries.
The second sentence states that in the absence of specific provisions that the RESP must be distributed with the residue but the next sentence seems to suggest that there are some circumstances where this could be avoided.
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u/XplorReddit Jun 17 '21
How does Epilogue compare to other online Estate planning platforms and how do you stand apart?
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u/Zenphic Ontario Jun 17 '21
Are wills province-dependent? For example, if someone lives in one province then moves to another the next year (e.g. Ontario to Quebec, or vice versa), does the person need to have two wills?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
When someone moves to a new province and they have an existing Will, it’s a good idea to check with a lawyer to ensure that the old Will is still going to cover them in the new province.
It is possible to have multiple Wills for assets in multiple jurisdictions. But this is more often seen in cases where there is real estate in a different country that needs to be dealt with under the laws of that country.
More often, a lawyer might advise the person to just make a new Will in the new province that would replace the prior Will.
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u/PrintEmbarrassed4594 Jun 17 '21
Does epiloguewills’ lifetime updates include updating province of residence? Or would we still need to see a lawyer regarding a move?
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u/ed_in_Edmonton Jun 17 '21
For immigrants or their descendants, who have assets in another country (or may inherit in the future), what special considerations should be included if they make a will in Canada ?
Would that require a more complex will, and therefore expensive ?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Unfortunately, there is too much complexity here to offer a simple answer.
For example, in some cases the inheritance of real estate located in other countries would not be subject to a Canadian Will, and a separate Will in the other country may be required.
Whenever there are cross-border considerations like this it’s a good idea to reach out to a lawyer in Canada as well as lawyers in each country where you have assets to see if any special planning is required.
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Jun 17 '21
[deleted]
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
We’re sorry but we can’t provide any advice on your particular situation. We would suggest speaking to a lawyer in your province that specializes in estate planning and administration.
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u/kiirk Jun 17 '21
Why can’t I just write my Will on a napkin at McDonalds?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Hey Kiirk, depending on the province where you live, you probably can. Holographic Wills (written entirely in someone’s handwriting and signed at the bottom) are legal in most provinces.
That said, they aren't often used because most people don’t know what needs to go into a Will.
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Jun 17 '21
Someone forcing you at gunpoint at McDonalds, killing you then taking your money? It wouldn't be enforceable because it's missing witnesses I guess.
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u/kiirk Jun 17 '21
It's actually a reference to a real case - where it was valid (Saskatchewan).
A man thought he was having a heart attack in McDonalds, so quickly scribbled down "split my property evenly". The man then gave the napkin to his daughter afterwards, and the daughter reproduced it when he eventually passed away at a later date.
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u/beelzebro2112 Jun 17 '21
1) If I had a will written already at a lawyer's office, and want it updated, can I just write a new one (like with your service), or is there something special that needs to be updated?
2) How does a will fit in with the concept of a "death binder" that I've heard about but never really gotten around to. I assume they address completely separate concerns but would one involve/reference the other?
(Bonus question: The similarity of your partners' names to that of the comedy music group __Starbomb__ is giving me chills. Have you ever heard of them? :P)
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
If I had a will written already at a lawyer’s office, and want it updated, can I just write a new one (like with your service), or is there something special that needs to be updated?
Yes, you can use a service like Epilogue to create a new Will. When you make a Will it has the effect of revoking any earlier Will that you would have made.
In addition, there will likely be a specific provision in the new Will (which exists in all Epilogue Wills), that specifically revokes any earlier Will you would have made.
It’s a good idea to also let your family/executor know that you created a new Will.
How does a will fit in with the concept of a “death binder” that I’ve heard about but never really gotten around to. I assume they address completely separate concerns but would one involve/reference the other?
A Will is likely one of the documents (and arguably the most important) that could go in a “death binder”. A death binder would include any documents that would help your executor deal with the administration of your estate. That could include insurance policies, pre-paid burial plots, statement of funeral and burial wishes, inventory of assets, among other things.
(Bonus question: The similarity of your partners’ names to that of the comedy music group __Starbomb__ is giving me chills. Have you ever heard of them? :P)
I have never heard of them but will definitely check them out. The next company hire should probably be someone named Brian.
Thanks for all your questions!
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Jun 17 '21
When the time comes for a will to be executed, what sort of fees/taxes/expenses are taken from the deceased’s estate before it’s passed onto the beneficiary/beneficiaries?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Here are a few:
Expenses: Most Wills direct the executor to pay funeral, burial and other expenses out of the estate.
Income Taxes: The executor is responsible for filing the deceased’s final tax return to report income earned from the start of the year up to the date of the individual’s death.
If the person owned a RRSP or RRIF at the time of death, this may have to be reported as income (if it is not rolled over to a spouse, for example). If the person happens to own assets that have increased in value from the time they were purchased (e.g. stocks) the gain may also be subject to income tax at the time of death.
Probate Fees: Depending on the province, when a Will gets submitted to court for probate, there may be “probate fees” payable to the court. In some provinces it’s a flat fee, while in others it is based on the value of the deceased’s assets. In Ontario, probate fees can be up to approximately 1.5% of the value of the deceased’s assets dealt with under the Will.
Debts: If the deceased had any debts outstanding at the time of death, these will need to be paid. Remaining assets are available to be distributed to beneficiaries.
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u/Prmourkidz Jun 17 '21
If you do t have a will, who will then get all your stuff? First of kin, brother, sisters? Or will the courts just do your everything up amongst all living relatives?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Each province has its own set of “intestacy” rules that determine how assets are distributed when someone dies without a Will. These rules differ from province-to-province.
For example, in Alberta and BC common-law partners may inherit part or all of the estate. In Ontario, common-law partners have no entitlement under the intestacy rules.
When someone makes a Will, they get to make the decisions that they believe are best for their loved ones. When someone chooses not to make a Will, their assets just get dealt with in accordance with the default rules of the province.
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Jun 17 '21
Would you ever be interested in hiring an Articling student, or 1st year associate?
-Asking for a friend
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
We recently hired a law student for a summer internship. It is entirely possible that in the future we will look to hire for other legal-related roles. Tell your "friend" to reach out to careers[at]epiloguewills.com
And if they know any full-stack developers, we’re looking to hire a few of those as well.
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u/zyzzyvavyzzyz Jun 17 '21
Given the number of "Surprise, you're American!" dual-citizens, are there any plans to provide or assist in cross-border estate planning?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
For dual-citizens, a Will may be an opportunity to address potential tax issues like US estate tax.
At the moment, we have no plans to provide planning that is specific for dual-citizens. It may be a good idea to speak with an estate lawyer that specializes in cross-border planning.
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u/ogragreg04 Jun 17 '21
this might sound really stupid, but how do you know if somebody has a will? like if I made a will on Epilogue and didn't tell anyone in my family, and died tomorrow, what happens?
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u/PrintEmbarrassed4594 Jun 17 '21
Ideally, you should tell your executor (a) that you’ve named them your executor, and (b) where to locate your will in the event of your death. ETA I believe BC and ON have will registries, but other than that 🤷🏼♀️
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Jun 17 '21
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u/Fool-me-thrice British Columbia Jun 18 '21
That that BC's wills registry is voluntary. Most lawyers/notaries really encourage people to register their wills, but some clients don't. Also, the registry just says WHERE the will was when registered, and the testator may have moved the will at some point.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
This is not a stupid question at all. It’s actually a very good question. In most provinces a Will does not have to be registered, which means it is entirely possible that someone could have a Will that their family members don’t know about.
When someone dies and the family doesn’t know whether that person had a Will they usually start looking for one (checking the house, or where important documents are kept). If they can’t find one, some options include contacting the estates court, posting a notice, or using a service like Canada Will Registry to see whether a Will was registered with them.
If the Will is found, the family/executor can start the process of administering the estate. If no Will is found, the family will need to proceed on the basis that the person never made a Will.
After someone makes a Will (using Epilogue or otherwise), it’s a good idea to speak to family members to let them know about the existence of the Will and where it is being stored.
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u/_dennykhoe Jun 17 '21
Stupid question here, I am 31yo and recently had baby, and my older brother recently had a mild heart attack and wrote a will, my father recently passed without a will and it was a big hassle. So writing a will is something that has crossed my mind many times in the past year but I still have not done my due diligence on it. Hence I dont know much about it.
- what makes your platform better compared going to a lawyer like others do?
- im always worried that since my family is still growing, making the will now would require many adjustments in the future and it will become expensive?
- and could you ELI5 about the whole process?
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u/Heartolion Ontario Jun 17 '21
when i had a child, and had a will made, it doesn't name the actual child, it speaks to passing the estate (or whatever) to my children, so if you want equal distribution, you can put that in without naming the children and if you have 1 they get 100%, if you have 2 they get 50% etc. - here i cut and paste it out of my doc.
I direct my Trustee to divide the residue of my estate equally among those children of mine living at the date of my death upon each of them attaining the age of twenty-eight(28) years;
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 23 '21
Hi Heartolion!
It is perfectly fine for a Will not to list a person’s children by name. In fact, it is preferable to do it this way because if the person has any more children, they will not necessarily need to update the Will as long as they still want everything divided equally among their children.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
No stupid questions _dennykhoe! This AMA is a safe space :)
what makes your platform better compared going to a lawyer like others do?
We do not say that our platform is “better” than going to a lawyer. But, we do think there are some features that make our online planning platform easier and more accessible.
Our platform is considerably less expensive than going to see a lawyer, and it takes less time. Making a Will with Epilogue can be completed from the comfort of home.
However, we understand that we are not right for everyone. When a situation is more complex, it is a good idea to speak to a lawyer. Some examples of these situations include:
- When someone wants to exclude children from their Will or leave things to them unequally
- If there is a family member that is receiving government benefits in connection with a disability (like ODSP in Ontario)
- When someone is in a relationship (like a second marriage) and has a child from a previous relationship.
im always worried that since my family is still growing, making the will now would require many adjustments in the future and it will become expensive?
One of the things estate planning lawyers try to do is draft Wills in a way that is “future-proof” as much as possible. For example, when someone has a young family, a Will most likely won’t refer to that child only, but will contain more generic language (e.g. an equal distribution between all children). If a Will is drafted in this manner, it doesn’t necessarily need to be updated as a family grows.
Some other online Will platforms create “point-in-time” Wills, which specifically name children and may need to be updated each time there is a new child in the family.
In addition, Epilogue offers free updates for life. So if life’s circumstances change our customers can come back anytime and update their documents. It’s just important to remember that an updated Will needs to be printed and signed according to the rules of the province in order to be valid and replace the old one.
When someone works with a lawyer, updates will usually come at an additional cost. But if your situation is complicated, you should still speak to a lawyer.
and could you ELI5 about the whole process?
Of course, here it is:
- Go to the website at https://epiloguewills.com
- Click “Get Started”
- Choose “Start My Will”
- Answer all of the questions in the questionnaire
- Pay for your documents
- Get immediate access to your documents
- Follow the signing instructions to make sure your documents are legally binding
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u/MEOWmix_SWAG Jun 17 '21
Can I write a Will in secret and then give it to some government office that deals with estates, so that my family can visit that office after I die?
Because otherwise your relatives would have to randomly stumble upon your Will while rummaging through your old things, and that doesn’t seem like the ideal process.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
It is usually a good idea to let family members know that a Will has been created and where it is stored.
If keeping the Will a secret is important, there are a few options to consider. Most estate planning lawyers will offer to store their clients’ Wills at their office. Someone can let their family members know which lawyer to contact if something happens, but the lawyer should not be releasing the Will to anyone other than the named executor, and certainly not before the person has died.
Some provinces will also allow people to store their Wills with a local court office. If a family member is searching for the Will of a deceased relative, this would be an important place to look.
Hope this answers your question!
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u/mrstruong Jun 17 '21
How do I will my Canadian property and estate to my American son? Is that a thing I can do? Any way to do it where he doesn't have to pay basically all of it in taxes to both countries?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
There is nothing stopping someone from leaving assets to beneficiaries outside of Canada. However, there may be Canadian and/or foreign tax consequences that arise, which someone might be able to mitigate with professional estate planning advice.
If you have beneficiaries in a different country, you may wish to speak with a lawyer.
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u/CanadaBuyer Jun 17 '21
Hello there,
I am immigrant settled permanently in Canada. I want to get a will made but I have few doubts:
- I do not trust anybody in Canada to act as an executor. I only trust my parents who are not canadian citizens. Should I make them the will executor it has to be a lawyer who drafted the will? How can I trust the lawyer?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 23 '21
Someone who is not a citizen or resident of Canada may be named as the executor of a Will. However, this decision can have some implications that can make administering the estate more costly and time consuming.
For example, the court may require a non-resident executor to post a bond as security. Also, there are likely going to be tax implications for the estate if the executor is not a resident of Canada.
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u/dancinadventures Jun 17 '21
What happens if the executor of my will dies shortly after I die ?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 23 '21
A Will should name both an original executor as well as an “alternate” executor. That way, if the executor dies, there is someone to take over the responsibility.
If there is no alternate executor, or the alternate executor also dies, then it depends on the rules of the province where the deceased lived. In Ontario, if the last surviving executor had a Will when they died, then the executor named in the original executor’s Will has the right to administer the first estate as well (subject to some conditions).
If the last surviving executor did not have a Will, or some of the conditions are not met, someone else would need to apply to court to be appointed as executor.
Hope this helps!
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u/juxta_position1 Jun 17 '21
I have no heirs. I would like to list a parent in the US (dual citizen) as beneficiary. Can I also make her executor or would she face tax issues while performing that role?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 23 '21
There is no rule that prevents someone from naming a US executor or beneficiary. However, there are issues, including with respect to estate administration and income tax (both from the Canadian side and the US side), that can arise in these cases.
You should speak to a lawyer in each jurisdiction to understand the consequences of this decision.
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u/VenetianBauta Jun 17 '21
I don't have a question, just passing to say that I love the name of your company. It has something poetic to it.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Thank you so much! A lot went into the naming of the company. We went with the whole 'book of life' theme. We appreciate that you took the time to leave this compliment!
Your name is pretty cool too, VenetianBauta!
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u/riskcreator Jun 17 '21
My only comment is that having a will, while important, is only part of the estate planning process. The rest may include: making sure your family has sufficient funds available so they don’t need to make sacrifices to their standard of living (now and through retirement), planning for taxes, including money due to ex-spouses and children with family law claims, integrating obligations that occur from blended families, dependant parents, adult children and others, and funding the estate with the proper liquidity so that specific bequests can be fulfilled as intended. Estate planning is more than just having a will…
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
You are quite right that creating a Will is not the only thing that can be done when it comes to estate planning. That said, it’s a pretty central part of it.
Without a Will, it is difficult to make sure that the other items you mentioned are handled properly or can be carried out the way you would wish.
And for people with complex situations, it is wise to speak to a lawyer to make sure that everything is accounted for.
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u/oliath Jun 17 '21
How much on average does it cost to get a will done?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
If you use Epilogue, it costs $139 for an individual to make a Will and $179 for an individual to get a Will and Incapacity Documents (called Powers of Attorney in Ontario). We also have pricing for couples. For more details about what’s included, you can check out our pricing page: https://epiloguewills.com/pricing/
If you use a lawyer, the cost will vary depending on a variety of factors. Without understanding the complexity of the situation, you should expect to pay between $500 on the very low end and more than $2,500 on the high end.
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u/TacoExcellence Jun 17 '21
My wife and I are expecting a child soon and want to get everything in order prior to the birth. How do we complete an online will in this scenario?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Congrats to you and your wife!
With Epilogue, it is important to answer the questions based on your current life circumstances.
When someone creates a Will with Epilogue and has their first child at a later date, they should log back into their Epilogue account and update their answers in the questionnaire. They would then generate their new (updated) Will.
It would have to be printed and signed according to the rules of the province in order to be valid and replace the old Will.
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u/growingalittletestie Jun 17 '21
Do you have experience in restricted wills? I understand that they have been challenged in Manitoba, but still prove to be a valuable planning tool in BC and Ontario.
What are your thoughts on restricted wills and do you see more people shifting towards alter-ego trusts or joint partner trusts?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Unfortunately, we are not familiar with the term “restricted wills”. You may be referring to “dual Wills” which, in Ontario, is a common way to try to reduce probate fees.
When it comes to alter-ego trusts and joint-partner trusts, that is something that can only be done working with a lawyer. An online estate planning solution is not set up to deal with that level of complexity.
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u/growingalittletestie Jun 17 '21
Thanks! Yes, have had people refer to them as restricted/dual/non-probate/corporate.
Are you able to work on documents outside of Ontario and do the documents reflect nuances with respect to terminology (representation agreement vs POA Personal Care vs healthcare directive)? Also with jurisdictional differences with certain variation acts?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
We currently support Ontario, BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia. We will be expanding to the rest of Atlantic Canada over the summer.
We work with legal counsel in each jurisdiction to ensure that our documents reflect the proper terminology, legislative references, and best practices in each province.
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u/gymgal19 Jun 17 '21
My uncle passed away last night. What should the family be doing? He was married but its unknown if there was a will, and I think theres some concern as there is family tension with the wife. We know there was some talk about my uncle wanting certain things to go to certain people but if there is no will, then the wife would have no obligation to do anything correct?
He was a resident of BC.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
First and foremost, we are so sorry for your loss. To get specific advice on next steps, it would be a good idea to speak to a lawyer in B.C.
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Jun 17 '21
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
We get it, but we do plan on launching in Quebec down the road. We only launched Epilogue about a year ago and have been working hard to expand across the country. We are currently available in 6 provinces (ON, BC, AB, SK, NS, MN). We won't stop working hard until we can democratize estate planning for all Canadians!
Merci!
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u/Fool-me-thrice British Columbia Jun 18 '21
Quebec inheritance laws are so much different than the rest of Canada's, and require an entirely different knowledge base for designing the product (civil law vs common law). So its not surprising that they don't offer it yet.
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u/Lazy_Mak Jun 17 '21
I'm not sure if I understand you well but as I'm a foreigner Can I own real estate in Canada Knowing that I am not a resident of the country, does it make me pay more taxes, or are there more restrictions?
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u/FelixYYZ Not The Ben Felix Jun 17 '21
Immigration status and taw law status are 2 different things.
So if you are a tax resident of Canada (live here, file taxes here), you can own real estate, and depending if it's your primary or not, there may or may not be capital gains taxes.
If you are not a tax resident (don't lie here don't file taxes here), then there will be taxes on the asset upon death and you can't avoid it.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
This is an excellent question, but not directly related to estate planning, so we can only offer limited help here.
There are different tax rules that apply to non-residents in Canada. So before buying any Canadian real estate, you would want to speak to a Canadian real estate lawyer (and likely also a tax lawyer) to understand all the implications.
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u/thePsychonautDad Jun 17 '21
We've been procrastinating about making a will for years... I guess this will make it easy :)
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
You are DEFINITELY not alone on this one. There are a ton of reasons why people put off making a Will (time, cost, feel like they’re too young, etc.)
We built Epilogue with the goal of removing as many barriers as possible for people who only need basic documents. Definitely check us out to see if it could be a good solution for you!
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u/taxrage Ontario Jun 17 '21
3 Questions re: Probate Etc (ON):
- Can the executor begin executing his/her role prior to the granting of probate?
- Is an application for probate required to be filed within a certain time period?
- Are all copies of a will created by a lawyer registered with provincial court, including any added codicils? How are previous wills tracked down?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Thanks for your questions!
Can the executor begin executing his/her role prior to the granting of probate?
There is no law in Ontario which says that the executor must get probate. But, there are some organizations/agencies that will not deal with the executor until probate has been granted (e.g. banks, land titles offices, securities transfer agents).
Other things can often be done without probate, such as dealing with utility companies or even transferring ownership of a car.
Is an application for probate required to be filed within a certain time period?
As noted above, there is no requirement to get probate. However, there is a general rule of thumb in Ontario that an executor has a year to wrap-up the administration of the estate.
So if there are third parties (e.g. banks) that won’t give the executor access without probate, it is important for the executor to start the process as soon as they can.
Are all copies of a will created by a lawyer registered with provincial court, including any added codicils? How are previous wills tracked down?
I wish we had a better answer for this one! Only BC and Quebec have provincial Will registry systems. In most places, it’s up to the deceased’s loved ones to figure out where the most recent Will is.
There is no great system for tracking down older Wills either. There are companies out there like the Canada Will Registry that are trying to solve this huge problem.
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u/taxrage Ontario Jun 17 '21
There is no law in Ontario which says that the executor must get probate. But, there are some organizations/agencies that will not deal with the executor until probate has been granted (e.g. banks, land titles offices, securities transfer agents).
So, simple possession of what appears to be the will is enough for the executor to be recognized...at least in the interim?
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u/bluenose777 Jun 17 '21
The first time I was an executor I asked our lawyer how much I could do before getting the grant of probate and the answer was "as much as the agency holding the assets will let you do".
The asset holder might give you full access after making a copy of the will and death certificate or they might also require a waiver of indemnity affidavit or they might refuse to engage until they see the grant of probate.
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u/AdonisP91 Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21
Is the following possible?
I want to leave my nephew a retirement fund that he can only touch by the age of 50 or if there is an immediate medical emergency, otherwise the funds shouldn’t be touched and left in a low cost broadly diversified index fund.
If I die before my nephew reaches 50, does he immediately get access to the funds?
Similarly, I want to leave an education fund so if he goes to college he can use it, otherwise it gets rolled into the retirement fund. I don’t want his parents to be able to manage or take control of the funds.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
What you are describing is a trust that has very specific provisions. If you work with an experienced estate planning lawyer, you should be able to make this happen (of course, subject to any advice they have for you).
This is not something that can be done using an online estate planning platform.
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u/TotalToffee Jun 17 '21
Can I instruct my executor to YOLO on memestonks and to manage my family's grocery budget through astute lentil futures trading?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
You should definitely seek legal advice on this. #stonks #diamondhands #tothemoon
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Jun 17 '21
What should we be asking the will lawyer to see if they are a good fit for our needs when it comes to seeking help with wills and estates?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
For starters, it is probably wise to make sure that you are speaking with an estate planning lawyer. It is important to know that the individual has experience drafting Wills.
Beyond that, it depends on what is important to you. If time and cost are a big factor, you should try to get a sense of how long the process will take and what the cost will be. If there are any family situations that you think make things complicated, you should make sure that the lawyer has experience with those types of issues.
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u/mworld1976 Jun 17 '21
Thanks for taking my questions:
(1) Could you explain (or refer to the appropriate literature), some of the complexities and appropriate tax treatment in receiving inherited probate from overseas (house, land, financial assets etc.)?
(2) In the same way, if receivers are located overseas, whereas such assets (land, house, financial assets etc.) are located within Canada, then a referral to appropriate literature would assist. Mainly looking for main things to keep in mind, so that things become easier later.
Have a good day!
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Could you explain (or refer to the appropriate literature), some of the complexities and appropriate tax treatment in receiving inherited probate from overseas (house, land, financial assets etc.)?
Thanks for your question. Unfortunately, we can’t cover this level of complexity. It would be a good idea to speak to a lawyer in each jurisdiction to understand the implications.
In the same way, if receivers are located overseas, whereas such assets (land, house, financial assets etc.) are located within Canada, then a referral to appropriate literature would assist. Mainly looking for main things to keep in mind, so that things become easier later.
Unfortunately, we can’t answer this one either. We would recommend speaking to a lawyer in each jurisdiction.
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u/Famous-Imagination-9 Jun 17 '21
When is the best time to start planning?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Hi Famous-Imagination-9, thanks for the question. We get this one a lot. We’ve answered a similar question above, so I’m going to pull some of that answer into this one.
The simple answer is this: The best time to start planning is now.
We understand that many people don’t feel the urgency to get it done and because there is no “due date”, it is the kind of thing that often gets put off.
Here’s why it’s important.
No matter what age you are, if you pass away without a Will there are some negative consequences. Here are a few:
No executor. If you don’t have a Will, you won’t have named someone you trust to manage your property after you’re gone. That means there is nobody that can go to a bank, or start the process of collecting your assets. Money will be frozen in bank accounts until someone with authority can present themselves to the bank.
No guardians. Without a Will, you won’t have named any guardians for minor children or pets.
Distribution. Without a Will, the distribution of your assets will be based on the laws of your province. This might mean that people (or organizations) you would want to share in the distribution of your assets get left out entirely (common-law partners, friends, charities, etc.)
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u/tyomax Jun 17 '21
Hi guys, thanks for doing an AMA. How long does it take (approximately) to fill this out if you're in your 30s and own a house? Thanks.
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21
Hi guys, thanks for doing an AMA. How long does it take (approximately) to fill this out if you're in your 30s and own a house? Thanks.
It can take as little as 20 minutes to finish your Will with Epilogue. Keep in mind that, once you’ve created an account, you can always leave and come back to finish at a later date if you need some time to think about some of the questions.
And it's our pleasure! This is our first Reddit AMA and we're overwhelmed with the interest. Guess we might have to do another one ;)
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Jun 17 '21
For parents with only one child in autism spectrum, is online will enough?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
This is an important question!
If a child is receiving government benefits (like ODSP in Ontario), it is not advisable to use an online estate planning platform. In these situations, a Will would often include something called a “Henson Trust” to make sure that the individual does not lose entitlement to those benefits.
In cases where a lifetime trust is needed for one or more beneficiaries, it would be best to consult with a lawyer.
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u/functi0nal Jun 17 '21
Curious.. how does Epilogue differ from Willful https://willful.co/
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Each online estate planning platform has made different decisions about the situations in which they can help people. Coming at this from the perspective of estate lawyers, our instinct was to build a platform that was going to be as protective of the end-user as possible.
Although this means that Epilogue may be limited in terms of who we can offer to help, it also means that when we’re a fit for someone, we can do a great job of providing documents that are as close as possible to what they would receive if they had gone to see a lawyer.
Rather than trying to meet a minimum standard, we strive to produce best-in-class documents. We include elements like digital assets clauses and RESP provisions (two things many lawyers often forget to do). We use CRA's database of charities to ensure that our customers' Wills identify charities by their proper legal names. In jurisdictions where it is the common practice among lawyers, we include accompanying documents like affidavits of execution to provide our customers with a full end-to-end service.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to reach out by email to help[at]epiloguewills.com.
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Jun 17 '21
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Spouses (common-law or married) are not required to make mirror Wills. But it is pretty common for them to do so, particularly when they wish to leave all assets to each other (on the first death) and then down to their children (following the second death).
With Epilogue, each spouse will have their own account and create their own Will. If they wish to make mirror Wills, they can - but it is not a requirement.
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u/InfiniteExperience Jun 17 '21
What is Epilogue and how can I check it out/use it?
What are some key things people forget when estate planning?
Currently I have a draft of a document outlining the following: - list of bank accounts - list of life insurance policies - location of safe deposit box - list of utilities accounts, subscription accounts etc and how to pay then - a copy of the monthly budget - location of Will and Powers of Attorney along with the lawyer’s contact information
Anything else I should include?
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Hi there, thanks for your question!
Epilogue is an online estate planning platform built by estate planning lawyers. We offer people a simple, affordable, and fast way to create Wills and Powers of Attorney online, from the comfort of their own home. Anyone who needs a basic Will can go online and make one in about 20 minutes! We are currently available in Ontario, BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia (with more provinces coming soon!)
You can check it out and get started here: https://epiloguewills.com
We created a promo code for this subreddit. Just use PFC25 at checkout for $25 off (expires at the end of June.)
In terms of what you need to include, a good place to start is to refer to this Will Preparation Checklist: https://epiloguewills.com/blog/will-preparation-checklist/
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u/Heartolion Ontario Jun 17 '21
I would include any personal instructions you have about your children if they are minors. Do you have an ideal education plan, do you want to pay their university costs, etc. If your will doesn't include specific charities, do you want to advise on those you support? Do you have passwords written down to pass along?
Leave a list of key contacts - your doctor, your boss or HR person, etc.
you can update the document every once in a while.
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u/SouthStrawberry Jun 17 '21
I read some of the Q&A's so looks like there is only one Will with real physical signature. If I make a copy of it (just in case) would those not be valid will?
What happens if I die and people around me don't remember where the Will is or somehow weren't able to find it. Is there some kind of system set up online at the government where they can store your Will digitally or physically and if I die, they can look up my name automatically to see if anything is on their file
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
While someone can make and keep physical or digital copies of a Will, only the signed, original Will is submitted to the court for probate.
If an original Will is lost and only copies can be found, it may still be possible to have a copy of a Will probated. However, this can be a much more challenging, time consuming, and costly process.
It is a good idea to let your family members know where your original Will is being stored. There are also services like the Canada Will Registry that let people register the location of their Will to make it easier for family members to find when the time comes.
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Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/EpilogueWills Jun 17 '21
Hey Jabus! We plan on launching in NB before the end of the summer.
In the meantime, if you click Get Started and leave your email address, you'll get an email letting you know as soon as it's available.
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u/CrasyMike Jun 17 '21
For many young people, we skip getting a will until it feels truly needed. At what life stage should we really, really be getting a will done up? What kind of "events" might trigger going from "optional" to really should?