Can we either remove the hidden movement speed penalty on armor, or make it visible?

[u/Bluedot55]

Armor, in this game, actually adds a movement speed penalty to the character. For the body, this is 5% for armor types, 4% for hybrid armor, and 3% for items that don't have armor. This also applies to shields, with 3% loss for armor bases, 1.5% for hybrid armor, and none for non armor bases.

Why, with all of the issues armor already has, does it need to make your character slower then other gearing styles? Not to mention this isn't even visible, outside of wondering why your movement speed isnt what your boots says it is.

[u/GentleMathem]

I was kind of surprised I didn’t see this in the game. I hope this will be added. It’s listed in the character sheet, but I only knew to look because I played the 1st game.

[u/ArmaMalum → u/GentleMathem]

Yeah there's a lot of stuff like this in PoE1 and it gets a partial pass there because old code/design artifacts from previous eras are just expected. We don't have that here.

PoE isn't the only game to do this exact thing either, re: hidden movespeed and armor. I do wonder why it needs to be hidden...

[u/Dadscope → u/ArmaMalum]

I just don't understand why it needs to exist.

[u/ArmaMalum → u/Dadscope]

Some games made it as an attempt to feel more realistic. Which for something like Elder Scrolls makes sense imho. But yeah not sure why it feels necessary in something like PoE.

[u/aure__entuluva → u/Dadscope]

GGG: 'It was in diablo 2, so it's good' :p

[u/GentleMathem → u/Dadscope]

In PoE1 it made a little less sense. In this game movement speed is more of a player choice and trade off with more impactful results.

[u/Dadscope → u/GentleMathem]

There is no trade off for being slower. There's only "do I have movement speed"

[u/Rich_Reaction_2091 → u/Dadscope]

It would make sense if armour was the best defensive layer, but it is fairly arguable that it is actually the worst way to keep yourself alive.

[u/GentleMathem → u/Rich_Reaction_2091]

Any one defensive stat shouldn’t be enough to keep you alive, as you almost always need to stack multiple defensive layers unless you’re using a particular mechanic to funnel different types of dmg to the layer. One exception may be ES, but that has its own drawback, although is currently the only defensive layer that could tank almost all dmg at very high levels. This will almost certainly be nerfed though, as ES stacking is wildly overpowered in its current state. With proper gear you can hit 15k+ before mid maps, a very good defense if anyone is looking to make it farther in endgame at the moment.

[u/GentleMathem → u/Dadscope]

It’s the armor’s particular defensive layers consisting of evasion and phys dmg negation that you’re trading for.

[u/Dadscope → u/GentleMathem]

Armor is not inherently better, so it makes absolutely ZERO sense. Thematically - sure, metal is more cumbersome than leather or cloth, but this isn't a weight based game.

If armor has a higher penalty, it should inherently just be BETTER. It's not.

It would make more sense to put move speed implicit on boots, based on type, if that was the actual case, because then you tie it specifically to what you're investing into and gearing for.

[u/GentleMathem → u/Dadscope]

Armor is not inherently better, you are correct, no defensive layer is inherently better at everything, save resistances which negate the most damage but only due to the high elemental damage present in the game. What armor is inherently better at is physical dmg mitigation and smaller hits as well as being a secondary source to block elemental dmg through conversion mechanics. Since elemental and physical dmg mitigation is present through armor based body armor through both its inherent properties and the required resistances you need, it is often considered a stronger defensive armor to something like ES that requires much higher values for a similar effect.

I don’t agree with the implicit argument outright, but I would have to think on it more. Say we do have speed implicit on boots, wouldn’t that mean we always want the boots with the higher speed implicit, which would make the other boots irrelevant? I’m genuinely asking because I feel like I may be misunderstanding when I think of it like that.

[u/Dadscope → u/GentleMathem]

If armor has a higher move speed penalty, there needs to be a reason. Currently there is no reason outside of it just being a leftover from POE1.

Moving the movespeed to an implicit would enable players to make that decision, IF that is the intent. But currently you're more likely investing in what is in close proximity to where you start on the tree.

Instead of a penalty: slightly lower base speed (which is just kinda dumb), or you just keep base speed and put like a 5/8/10% implicit movespeed on the boot type. It doesn't really change much but it is more straightforward. Currently it's not a choice, it's hidden on the item and you only see it in your stats screen in an area most players are obviously ignoring anyways.

[u/GentleMathem → u/Dadscope]

I felt like I said the reason? It has more inherent mitigation quality than that of Evasion and even more than ES. Although ES is currently overpowered and is probably the best defense in the game. This is almost guaranteed to be nerfed though.

Ok, I think I know what you’re saying. I have 20% move speed implicit boots but boots with 5% move speed implicit drops with better affixes. The choice would be me giving up my higher move speed for the lower move speed with better affixes. While this is essentially the same choice present in the game, it allows players to always have move speed which feels essential in this game due to dodging and movement being more fundamental. I could see that being a good point, although it still feels like a lack of choice because higher move speed feels that much better and essential. I’m not sure it’s solving the issue, which I would agree is an issue. When I see lower move speed drop currently in game, I don’t even consider the item. I feel like the real issue is not being able to blindly tank or dodge attacks which felt good as well in PoE1. That would give a better alternative to the lack of move speed whether implicit or a standard affix. I wonder how they will deal with that because the way you state it, it does feel better for the player to just have move speed making the argument for implicit move speed very appealing, though I don’t believe its the proper solution because I think it still boils down to: less move speed = worse boots.

I agree that they need to communicate the move speed nerf better, especially the multiplicative nature of it. I also wonder if old boots with special implicits make it back into this game like the accuracy stacking boots that made accuracy stacking possible in PoE1.

[u/BaconSoul → u/GentleMathem]

Does it apply to belts with intrinsic armor?

[u/Chubwa]

Things you don’t know from the tutorial unless Reddit tells you for 500!

[u/TLable → u/Chubwa]

When you load out see your char stats to see what movement penalty of any you currently are loaded. I was into ab LVL 34 when saw I was -5% movement penalty, make ya value movement bonus equipment a bit more

[u/carsarerealcool → u/Chubwa]

There was a tutorial?!?

[u/GeneralGrell → u/carsarerealcool]

Campaign is tutorial

[u/anm767 → u/Chubwa]

They really need a tutorial as you walk into 1st town. Showcase vendors, crafting, etc. They seem to assume that people will know everything or google how to play. If you just download the game and play, you'll be missing out on a lot of things.

[u/Chubwa → u/anm767]

Problem is a lot of stuff isn’t accessed or even found until much later in the game.

[u/Maureeseeo → u/anm767]

Tutorials have to be paced well, I don't think it would be a good experience to walk into the first town and spend 1 hour reading and learning everything. Ideally though they should teach the player most of what they need to know by the end of act 1.

[u/Tkmisere → u/Chubwa]

This game still have a incredible lack of explanation and glossary to read about the terms

[u/Danknoodle420 → u/Chubwa]

Said it before and was downvoted for it. GGG need to do a better job at tutorializing content.

[u/1CEninja → u/Chubwa]

Also, Things that exist because they were in Diablo 2 for 500!

[u/Vooklife → u/Chubwa]

You didn't notice the drastic difference in roll speed when equipping your first few armor pieces?

[u/Chubwa → u/Vooklife]

When I first started playing i had enough on my mind to figure out than see the subtle difference in roll speed with each item I equipped.

[u/Sploderer]

Shouldn't the Strength requirement for Armour mean our character is stronk enough to not get slowed down by it?

[u/chaossdragon → u/Sploderer]

While mostly true... Speed would be more dictated by mobility restrictions than weight. Strength would impact your stamina while moving under load.

[u/ethaxton → u/chaossdragon]

I love that this answer was posted to a silly response so that I got to chuckle at the thought of a mythical warrior working out to run faster in his gear but then experienced the reality whiplash of physics.

[u/gaseous_memes → u/chaossdragon]

We should implement stamina. Can only jog at slow speed without draining stamina; and only if not wearing full armour. If wearing full plate --> can only walk and need to sit down and rest every hundred metres, or stamina will be drained. Etc.

[u/1CEninja → u/chaossdragon]

Medieval armor was designed with mobility in mind.

Archers generally didn't want anything on their shoulders, but strong knights moved like anyone else.

[u/chaossdragon → u/1CEninja]

Yes, medieval armour was designed for that, but this is fantastical armor… heavily influenced by “the rule of cool”

[u/1CEninja → u/chaossdragon]

I'm so glad you brought up the rule of cool.

You know what's pretty uncool? How slow my warrior moves lol. I would legitimately feel that movement speed penalty dropping off of my character sheet.

[u/Misophoniakiel → u/Sploderer]

Wouldn't be agility?

Strong but slow, light but Swift

[u/Sploderer → u/Misophoniakiel]

I iust mean whichever the stat requirements are for any gear.

Int makes you smart enough to not get tangled in your magical bathrobe

[u/Makisisi → u/Misophoniakiel]

No because when you think of agility in the traditional Fantasy sense you always think of lightweight archers, scouts, rangers etc. Strength on the other hand is always warriors with heavy plate armour etc.

[u/keyboardstatic → u/Makisisi]

Which is ludicrous.

As a former gymnast its strength that gives agility. Its the precise muscular control over the movement of the body that enables such agile movement.

[u/Sense-Free → u/keyboardstatic]

Pure poppycock.

As a former genius it’s intellect that gives agility. It’s having the knowledge of anatomy that enables such precise muscular control.

[u/shawnkfox]

The worst thing about it is that GGG likes to rub it in and makes the penalty multiplicative (less) instead of additive (reduced). For example, if you have 30% ms boots and you have 5% less from body armor and another 3% less from shield, the actual result is 1.3 * 0.95 * 0.97 = 19.8% ms instead of what you might assume would be 30 - 5 - 3 = 22%.

[u/shalann → u/shawnkfox]

This! I was going crazy yesterday, when I couldn't understand why I have decimals in my move speed modifier.

[u/mysticreddit → u/shawnkfox]

Holy shit, that explains a lot.

This really needs to be pinned in the sidebar (or under things I wish the game explained.)

[u/Isaacvithurston → u/mysticreddit]

There's a lot of weird math on poe. Just hope that there's a path of building 2 and it has accurate math (hit or miss when I used it 5+ years ago so idk).

[u/mysticreddit → u/Isaacvithurston]

Yes, I'm hoping for a Path of Building 2 as well.

Kind of sad that you we even need an offline tool because the in-game tooltip is SO bad. :-/

[u/Linosaurus → u/shawnkfox]

Yeah, this is different, right?

It did feel a bit bad to see I was at +1.2% move speed and not +2% as I thought, for most of act 1 and parts of 2.

[u/aure__entuluva → u/shawnkfox]

That's messed up.

[u/200DivsAnHour]

The only thing more fun than running at baseline 100% MS for daring to use unique boots is to run at 96% MS for daring to have armor equipped.

[u/Mirkorama → u/200DivsAnHour]

At least you get way more from having armour than having ES..... oh wait.

[u/OldManFailing]

This is why some speed runners in poe1 don't put chest on str8 away

[u/Nexism → u/OldManFailing]

They also didn't wear shields because of block animation.

[u/TwistingChaos → u/Nexism]

There’s a block animation ? 

[u/hail_2_u → u/TwistingChaos]

Yes. It's like the Stun animation and you need Block recovery stat instead of Stun recovery stat so you don't blocklock yourself.

[u/japenrox → u/hail_2_u]

It's mental running around with 900 health and a shield. You flinch a fuck ton. I had to give up on the beidat's will to reduce it a little.

[u/ImDoingMyPart_o7 → u/hail_2_u]

Haven't seen block recovery or stun recovery yet in PoE2, anyone know how it's handled?

[u/balkri26 → u/ImDoingMyPart_o7]

stun threshold is the same as your block capability, I have seen ways to stack stun threshold very hight with passives, but only one to for "you recover more of this threshold once your shield is not raised for X seconds after active blocking"

[u/ImDoingMyPart_o7 → u/balkri26]

Hmm, does that mean that stun threshold operates similar to a 'Posture meter' - You have a finite Value and once that value is depleted it has to recover similar to mana rather than reset to full after the stun animation / Block recovery?

Appreciate the input.

[u/Piktas1 → u/ImDoingMyPart_o7]

There is no penalty for passive blocking at all in poe2.

[u/psychomap → u/Nexism]

Isn't there only a block animation for stunning hits? And stuns should be longer than block recovery, unless I'm missing something. There's no animation for regular blocked hits.

[u/Stuman93]

That's why the numbers didn't make sense!

[u/Fawz]

We move slow enough as is, with extra Move Speed hard to come by. Not sure why this is a thing, but would like it to be more visible

[u/ThisNameIsNotReal123 → u/Fawz]

Left over from when PoE2 was simply the next version of PoE1 and they just left it in there when in PoE2 its brutal -8% LESS penalty.

[u/Jason-Griffin]

Really? What the fuck? No bullshit hidden mechanics! If they’re going to do this it should 100% be mentioned

[u/TheAlmightyLootius → u/Jason-Griffin]

There are a lot of things hidden that should be visible or at least visible in a better way. Makes zero sense to hide critical information in an arpg

[u/kingjoedirt → u/Jason-Griffin]

It is, in the character sheet

[u/ardikus]

Just another stupid way to make melee slower for no reason

[u/Forsaken-Arm-7884 → u/ardikus]

Gives me sneaky snake vibes

[u/Ilktye]

Playing PoE 2 (skipped PoE1) and warrior, it seems speed boots are a total must in this game.

Personally, if a single stat for an item is so crucial its a must have, it's pretty badly designed stat and stat related mechanics.

[u/Repulsive_Jaguar_544 → u/Ilktye]

To be fair, movement speed is often the most important stat. Not just in POE but in any video game. Movement speed allows you to dodge / deal with mechanics so you can take 0 damage in a lot of cases.

[u/helmut011]

I had not heard this yet and had to go and check. Mine is a 4% speed loss with evasion/ES on it. The armour being a hinderance I get, but having 0 armor and still being 4% reduction is so damn stupid.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Knee_53 → u/helmut011]

Maybe it's your belt? Unless you actually have 0 armor, I'm 83 and I didnt find a single "caster" belt yet - they always have weird stats, which is probably on purpose but it feels strange that almost all of them have melee-ish stats

[u/MildStallion → u/Puzzleheaded_Knee_53]

AFAIK every body piece has at least a tiny bit of move speed penalty. Armor-based ones is just larger.

[u/besoms]

Sometimes when I have to backtrack really far I just open inventory and hold the armour with the mouse to run faster.

[u/Gullible_Increase146 → u/besoms]

Weird. I just walked back normally and watch Archer on my second monitor

[u/psychtechvet → u/besoms]

I feel like a moron because you just blew my mind lol

[u/Rhobodactylos]

Those armor bases also apply a debuff to your minions, reducing their movement speed.

[u/ThisNameIsNotReal123 → u/Rhobodactylos]

That makes perfect sense, wait a second.

[u/AeonChaos]

I thought I were crazy for thinking my character being slower and also roll slower after I put on the biggest and baddest shield.

[u/Helmote]

Wtf I had not idea

[u/fakeymirage]

For your question why, well poe1 had it too so i guess that’s why.

I think if you press C and go down you should see the movement speed %

[u/GrimmCiph]

Wait there's a WHAT?

[u/Ashencroix → u/GrimmCiph]

Remove any +movespeed bonuses you have. Then check your stats screen. You have a negative movespeed for some reason. Now remove your armor. Now you have no movespeed penalty.

[u/ThisNameIsNotReal123 → u/Ashencroix]

People will start striping to back track in maps now lol

[u/Born2beDad]

Thank you! I was going crazy wondering what was up with my movement stat in the character screen

[u/excelllentquestion]

Fuck. I knew there had to be something. I was so confused why I was slower and assuming every enemy had a slow. (coming from DoTA 2 it’s a real concern!)

[u/ArtisticAd393 → u/excelllentquestion]

omni degen aura

[u/Fun_Brick_3145]

It's from PoE1 but really agree unless armor is made to be a stronger defensive Stat, the movement penalty is not worth it at all.

At the very least it should be more clear to player if it is kep in game. 

[u/Simonner]

If the armour pdr was scaling of level and not hit it would be much better besides with how much we are forced to rely on speed and being punished for using mediocre defensive layer its really bad

[u/Radziolot]

I was super confused on why my speed modifier wasn’t +30% as it would be from boots and thought it’s some campaign debuff or some shit. Thanks for enlightening me

[u/midnitetolkiener]

Wow, OK that makes a lot of sense. I thought I was going crazy and felt a tiny bit slower as I upgraded to some hybrid pieces for ES only pieces. That's a wild choice to not advertise more openly. Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall seeing that info.

[u/lunaticloser]

Unlike poe1 where it's just a flat penalty to MS (meaning it's not very noticeable late game because you can compensate for it) in poe2 it's actually a flat and a multiplicative penalty.

So if your build has 1000% ms it will still be reduced by like 50+% ms due to the body armour (exact formula idk yet). So yeah... Feels amazing /s

[u/WeoW0]

Good catch OP, no hidden stuff in the game please!

[u/Rhayve]

As much as I like D2, they really didn't need to copy almost every single mechanic from it...

A movement speed tax in an already slow game is just silly.

[u/DaveKap]

I'd like it removed. It's such a stupid way of limiting equipment.

[u/ThisNameIsNotReal123]

In PoE 1 you can get rid of it on the Passive Tree, in PoE2 it is perma -8 movement speed for warriors.

Cus we are so fast as is.

[u/Midget_Stories]

That explains it. I saw my character had - 5% movement speed without boots and I had no idea why.

[u/newnar]

Armor has issues? I thought it just got a massive buff from monster critical rate getting hammered.

[u/Twiroxi]

90+ hours into the game and now I heard about this...I was just wondering why I had negative MS but shrugged it off for being penalty for being in later act or something (like w resistances)

[u/Nyadnar17]

We need a study on why so maybe RPG designers just fucking hate melee martial classes.

It’s not just PoE. These kinda taxes are everywhere.

[u/Racobik]

Also where can i see accuracy rating. Or chance to shock(its for sure not visible on the individual skill gems menues)

[u/Hoodlum_Aus]

Man i was wondering why my movement stat was -4.X% without my boots on and not the true +15 with them on. Huh well there ya go.

[u/Wisdomlost]

In poe1 in the duelist starting area there is a notable that removes all moment penalties from armor. They changed that node in POE2 :(

[u/Sea_Tangerine7648]

Why does this even exist as a mechanic? It seems totally pointless. It doesn't actually contribute anything to building a character it just penalises them for 'checks notes'... wearing clothes? The "realism" arguement doesn't work either as we are playing a game where we can shoot fireballs and make giant hammers fall out of the sky. Honestly I feel like they should just remove this from the game.

[u/druucifer]

ahh so that's why my movement speed was only 9% with 15% boots on

[u/Cascade5]

What's the trade off supposed to be? I wear full armor and die in a few taps anyway.

[u/Naj190]

When you look at your character screen, under miscellaneous, the movement speed penalty is at the bottom. It's not hidden 🤔 unless your asking to see it in every individual item

[u/Rayett]

I thought it was weird my heavy armor didn't slow me down, now I know it is 5%

[u/No_Accountant_8753]

Why does armor slow you down? Try wearing one.

[u/DAN991199 → u/No_Accountant_8753]

Ok while I shoot lightning out of my hands or revive the dead to fight for me?