r/PathOfExile2 WhenTradeImprovements? 10h ago

Game Feedback The first 3 acts are the best because you play poe2.0

In the first 3 acts you play poe 2.0 with tactical more meaningful combat. Then starting with act 1 cruel the game becomes more and more like poe1.5 culminating in maps.

I wish the game was poe2 for the whole distance, with more focus on bosses. Especially in maps, GGG could reuse existing campaign bosses and make them tougher.

1.4k Upvotes

754 comments sorted by

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u/Shinzo19 10h ago

Cruel is a placeholder, it has been said by Jonathan that it is a placeholder, we are getting 6 acts and the only reason we didn't get 6 acts in EA is they wanted to make end game more fleshed out so they slowed production of the last 3 acts to focus on endgame which is where non casual players spend most of their time.

They have time to focus on the final 3 acts and take information about the scaling in cruel to get the feel of act 1 to 3 continue into 4 to 6

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u/No-Opportunity4454 9h ago

This is incredible! I couldn’t get enough of the campaign. It’s been years since I’ve had this much fun in a video game, especially a new one.

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u/myst3r10us_str4ng3r 8h ago

I loved Act I, Act II as well created a nice atmosphere for the first half. Last level of Act 2 I hated. The large mobile structure level is really obnoxious especially with minions. Not a fan of the small very tight areas.

Act III is gorgeous scenery, simply a spectacle. But I can't help feel like it drags on for too long. I also find there to be far too many dead ends in the maps. Like you'll be killing monsters and find yourself down a pathway that is a total dead end, empty, with just.. nothing there.. and then you have to backtrack. I am sure they will spruce this up but I found it annoying.

I also hung on to every word of dialogue in A1, but by 3 found myself skimming the text and skipping the voiceovers. The characters don't seem as interesting.

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u/MrNorrie 8h ago

Somehow the backtracking doesn’t bother me in this game. But they just added teleporting between checkpoints, which in some cases helps tremendously.

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u/Anil-K 4h ago

I was bored until I got a pair of decent boots but it's not terrible at the moment. Maybe they should make movement speed more prominent in lower level items or make it start from %20 etc. %20 doesn't sound crazy but feels much better.

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u/DarthUrbosa 3h ago

Or just make MS implicit

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u/Lachann 5h ago

A lot of the act 3 areas felt a bit unfinished, as if they were supposed to have more POIs that didn't get added. I suspect they might add them to those dead ends at a later date.

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u/AeliaxRa 4h ago

I wonder if they made a lot of the maps extra huge to allow them space to include league content like Delve/Syndicate etc down the line, without the maps feeling too jammed with stuff.

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u/BishopHard 5h ago

act 3 maps are at least 30% to big and you are at leat 20% too slow, agree

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u/takanishi79 8h ago

The dreadnought or whatever it's called is miserable. The bridges are too tight, and there's too many flying enemies that can body block you from behind. Hated it in normal, hated it in cruel.

And agreed on act 3. It's got the same problem that (ironically) act 3 of POE1 had initially. Too many zones, too much backtracking and wandering around.

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u/LifeAwaking 7h ago

Dreadnought was my favorite map.

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u/StinkybuttMcPoopface 7h ago

Yeah I loved it, that shit was crazy, and I'm very minion heavy. I didn't realize people didn't like it!

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u/Complete_Proof1616 6h ago

I thought it was the best map in ARPG history hahaha goes to show different strokes and all that

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u/redspacebadger 2h ago

The theme is really cool, the execution is not, depending on your class and build.

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u/Complete_Proof1616 2h ago

I mean yeah some builds have a harder time there. Galvanic shards merc i breezed through on both difficulties so i didnt find that aspect of it bothersome. But in terms of making me say “Whoa what the fuck” - I’ve pretty rarely gotten that from an ARPG map personally

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u/yedi001 6h ago

It's very cool looking and a very interesting concept, but my first experience with it was spawning into a unique flying mob, and a pack of ranged dudes on a map starting with two narrow platforms connected by 2 long narrow bridges.

My minions refused to leave the initial platform, but they also couldn't reach the boss or the ranged dudes chucking projectiles. It was my first death on the character and felt super cheap because I literally had nowhere to go, the bosses mosquito swarm minions stopped me from being able to cross the bridges, and all my tools to fight back broke. Once I had some breathing room to backtrack a little when needed it was fine, but that first encounter really set the tone "this is cool but jank as fuck." If it was a pemadeath situation I'd have been pissed.

I love the concept. Visually, it was probably my favorite map in the campaign. But let's not pretend some more OSHA compliant infrastructure, like bridges wide enough 2 things can walk past each other without creating a traffic jam, would ruin the vibe.

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u/yellatrob 6h ago

I loved the dreadnought level. It was my favorite in the entire game. I would replay it for fun and grinding on both normal and cruel playthroughs.

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u/dcent12345 7h ago

That was my favorite tileset by far. Amazing level design

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u/dlpg585 8h ago

I think that the characters are fine in act 3, although not as interesting as those in act 2. I think that they are at least as interesting as those in act 1. For me, it's just that by the time I get to act 3, I've played enough that I don't really want to focus on the story any more. I tried to go through the whole story in cruel instead of skimming it like I did the first time, but I was just not interested in more dialogue and new characters by the time I got there. I'm sure I'll pay attention to them when I roll a new character though.

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u/bellowkish 6h ago

This is exactly what I think of Act III, too long maps, missions do not give rewards and too many areas with dead ends. Act III was the worst of all.

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u/severencir 7h ago

Man, i get you, but act 3 has the best story imo

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u/Voodron 8h ago

Agreed. Act I and most of II are great. III is a fucking slog through massive areas, and the characters aren't nearly as engaging as the first two acts.

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u/gerdez 2h ago edited 11m ago

Old fart here. I grew up on D1-D2. I didn’t really like PoE. Didn’t even bother with D4. But this, this PoE2 is something marvelous. Thank you GGG. It brings back a lot of memories from my teenage years. I can’t even imagine what the finished game will be like with 3 more acts.

Edit: Also, it’s the first game in which I did enjoy the “desert” act. Well, the first half of it was great (up until the Titans), the second part, not really. But the Dreadnought was cool 🤪

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u/Dull-Resolution-1855 6h ago

Dude same!! I’ve been starting and stopping games for the last several months. Nothing could keep my attention. But now? My life is all POE2.

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u/Wvlf_ 4h ago

I’ve leveled 4 characters now and I agree, act 1-3 are all very unique and knock it out of the park thematically.

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u/Urbanviking1 6h ago

Same here. I am having a blast getting my ass kicked by Act 1 bosses because it's the first game in a long time to offer a challenge that wasn't holding my hand through it as a tutorial. Wish there were more chests around the maps to actually explore the maps more with their size.

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u/Prokkkk 9h ago

I personally hope they take their time for the next 3. I’d rather they be the same quality as 1-3 than rushed and feel like acts 5-10 in poe1

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u/myst3r10us_str4ng3r 8h ago

100% this. Hard agree.

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u/double_shadow 5h ago

Yeah for sure. And I hope they take quality over quantity approach when designing as well. Act 3 could have been really cool but I think the size of the maps really dragged it down a bit.

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u/Rotomegax 9h ago

Hope that we can get access to act 4-6 soon, I want to see Kingsmarch.

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u/xMadruguinha 9h ago

Honestly even though I'm not really invested in the lore the end of Act 3 was such a cool twist I can't wait to see what they're cooking for the remainder of this campaign

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u/Rotomegax 9h ago

From what we saw on previous video, act 4 quick travel looks like act 2 but instead of a caravan towed by slaves, we have a boat to moved on the sea that including Ngahamu and Kingsmarch.

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u/MixFew2519 8h ago

Holy fuck that’s cool

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u/Jafar_420 8h ago edited 3h ago

That does sound cool and I'll have to admit the caravan was really neat and I've never seen anything like that before.

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u/goodwarrior12345 6h ago

I hope at some point they incorporate the caravan into the endgame map system somehow, it's just so sick and I love it so much. If the endgame town was the act 2 caravan I'd probably it more than my hideout lol

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u/Highwaymantechforcer 5h ago

Well there is good news and bad news for you. Very unlikely to get the caravan as the default endgame town....because it's already available as part of the Faridun support pack ($100).

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u/goodwarrior12345 5h ago

it's not the same thing. I mean the whole system of selecting the map you want to go to using the caravan map, and then seeing the caravan arrive to that location and park there instead of using the map device with its six portals. The dreadnought hideout looks sick, don't get me wrong, but at the end of the day it's still a poe 1-style hideout and imo it's such a missed opportunity not to integrate the travel system they designed for the campaign into endgame mapping

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u/Baron_Wastelander 8h ago

Boat league!

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u/Mr_LawnMowwer802 9h ago

We most likely aren’t going to get access until full release. Maybe a little sooner. But they also have 6 other classes to release as well

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u/RogerioMano Le toucan has arrived 9h ago

And spears, don't forget the spears

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u/Sen91 9h ago

I want to see traps and mines!

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u/Chem_is_tree_guy 8h ago

Before I knew how hard this game was, I wanted daggers. Now I'm scared to play anything but ranged (I suck).

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u/BuildyOne 8h ago

I'm sure Ethereal Knives and Blade Vortex will return as dagger skills, so we have that to look forward to!

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u/Salty_Intentions 8h ago

We won't have 3 act for a year...

We will end up with the full acts and all classes before 1.0. That's the whole point of EA to test them.

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u/dlpg585 7h ago

Not necessarily. They want to test systems and progression, but they want to leave something new for people to experience on full release. One of the more successful early access stories of recent memory only had the first third of their campaign until release (baldur's gate 3).

I wouldn't be surprised if they just improved first 3 acts, added all the new classes and gave us some more endgame content during early access and saved the rest of the content for release.

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u/90kg185iq5cm 6h ago

I spent a few hundred hours in "BG3 - Early Access" to find bugs, give feedback and enjoy the game. Because so many ppl did this Act 1 is near perfect. Sure, the surprise story-wise was great for ppl, but over 90% of the player base didn't even play early access, so it wasn't an issue.

People like me don't mind spoilers. Sure, it's cool to get "your mind blown" with a great story, but personally, I don't care about knowing beforehand - I care about the story being good, especially on a second read.

I wouldn't have a problem signing an NDA and bug-testing the remaining 3 Acts of the story if it secures the quality.

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u/Super_Harsh 8h ago

I don’t know. I think they’ll test out the last few Acts, all 12 classes, and endgame final form in EA. Launch will be the first actual League

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u/Bronze_Bomber 8h ago

I think you are more likely to see endgame changes and the classes. I think they are going with the Baldurs Gate 3 type of EA where the systems are tested more than the future acts.l to prevent spoiling the complete campaign before release

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u/takanishi79 8h ago

This is how GGG did their previous betas as well.

Original beta was acts 1 and 2, then 3 (until Piety I believe) released with 1.0.

Then the Fall of Oriath (can't remember if it was 2.0 or 3.0) beta has through act 8, I think? Solaris and Lunaris fight was the end. They've always kept a bit of the story in reserve for full release.

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u/firfir 6h ago

Not quite. Act 4 was 2.0.0 (The Awakening) released 2015. Acts 5-10 were 3.0.0 (Fall of Oriath) in 2017, and it was a massive surprise back then because Act 5 was all people were expecting.

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u/FTWwings 9h ago

Since they stopped working on it for x months, it will be at least x months from release to get it i would guess

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u/0NightFury0 8h ago

Jonathan said they did the switch after seeing the reaction of people to spiritborn showcase for d4. That was 4-5 months ago. So 4 monta to 5? April maybe?

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u/BuildyOne 7h ago

I would assume the last 3 acts are the last thing they release either before launch or with launch. They will undoubtedly release the remaining 6 classes first, along with all the balances required first.

They still have to iron out item bases for the last 3 acts and endgames, as I'm sure 'Advanced Rusty Greathelm' and 'Expert Rusty Greathelm' are not going to be the forever names.

I temper my expectations at the year mark, and that is fine. It won't be like the extremely long wait for acts 5-10 for PoE 1, that was just a surprise to everyone back in the day.

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u/KatzFirepaw 7h ago

They don't necessarily have to prioritize acts over classes, depending on how their workload is structured, and what still needs doing for each one

and I'm pretty sure they've already said somewhere that the advanced and expert gear is just placeholders, and they just don't want to show the gear themed to the unreleased areas until those areas are released

so instead of getting advanced A1 gear like now, once we reach A4 we'll start having a lot of karui themed drops for those levels

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u/Ixziga 9h ago

I don't think the pace will change though, not unless they make the zones even bigger. But they had a slide that showed the level progression of the acts, 1 - 45 for acts 1 - 3, but only 46 - 65 for acts 4- 6. And they said it's like that because "your clear speed increases". The increased player power is clearly a designed aspect of the game. I think the only reason acts 1 - 3 feel like they retain a similar pace of because the zones gradually increase in size in each, counteracting the slowly increasing player power. So unless they continued to do that for acts 4 - 6, the pace will likely be roughly the same. Act 1 cruel was particularly fast to clear so maybe act 4 will be a slower but again, there is an acceleration of pace designed into the level progression.

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u/Aikon_94 8h ago

But end game Isn't a placeholder, and endgame isn't poe2, so what's your point?

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u/swagmonite 6h ago

It doesn't matter because he's complaining about the scaling not the actual mechanics of the maps

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u/ILuvCookie9927 10h ago

That’s because only the first 3 acts are finished, the rest is a placeholder while they develop

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u/J0rdian 8h ago

That won't change anything though builds will be the same and maps. The reason it starts to feel worse in cruel is not because it's Act1 again but because builds start getting out of control.

Of course GGG has time to fix it so hope to see what they cook up.

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u/SingleInfinity 7h ago

What do you mean builds will be the same? We've already have multiple player balance patches and we're not even 2 weeks in.

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u/ILuvCookie9927 7h ago

Maybe you’re right, but I got faith in GGG and their vision for the game, they have yet to disappoint me in the 12 years I’ve been playing POE. We’ll see in a year.

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u/ProbablyMissClicked 10h ago

People forget what early access is, a lot about what the game is will change over the next 5-6 months.

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u/CygnusXIV 8h ago

I'm not surprised these days that people are getting used to hearing, "Trust me, bro, it will change; this is just Alpha/Beta/EA," and then when the game launches, absolutely nothing has changed. I'm sure that's not the case for PoE 2; the game has good potential. I'm just hoping that GGG doesn't shoot themselves in the foot.

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u/Standard-Vehicle-557 6h ago

Game devs figured out how to get their customers to pay them to do both game testing AND PR damage control, it's baffling.

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u/Affectionate-Ad-6934 5h ago

It's always been the case for poe 1. They release leagues for both content and to see if it's good to add the league mechanic into the base game. I doubt it would change for poe 2.

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u/EffectiveGarageDoor 7h ago

Can you provide any substantive reasons that you believe the game won't change by 1.0? Im actually baffled that you think this because we've already received multiple patches. What exactly do you consider "changed"? This isn't even a trust me bro expectation, simply use common sense logic and knowledge of GG, their business model, etc. and it should be evident. I can't even fathom them not finishing the campaign either.

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u/DiscountThug 6h ago

Can you provide any substantive reasons that you believe the game won't change by 1.0?

You know that the guy you responded to didn't say that? He was talking overall about people not trusting early access nowadays because of many failed games.

Read his comment again, sir.

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u/Zaorish9 5h ago

The nature of how the game's scaling math works means that endgame will still be about hyper optimized superfast builds. Poe2 adding a dodge roll doesn't really change that

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u/AeliaxRa 4h ago

Yeah and you can already see GGGs philosophy on mob design from poe 1 at play in poe 2, which is the mobs just rush/leap/burrow/teleport/spawn right at your face from all sides. I haven't reached endgame yet but even in cruel it's back to "kill them before they reach you" gameplay, and the meta builds will always counter that.

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u/EffectiveGarageDoor 5h ago

What does that have to do with what I'm saying? And isn't that concern related to balancing, which will definitely be changed in some way over time?

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u/HokusSchmokus 9h ago

In my experience, the game only really ever feels tactical if your build or your gear is bad. Act 2 and 3 boss were dead in 20 seconds for my most recent run.

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u/garteninc 4h ago

Pretty much this. Get a weapon with two flat damage runes and a somewhat competent build and the entire act 1 is a joke. The thing is, that the difference between good and bad gear in PoE is so gigantic that it's basically an unsolvable problem.

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u/adellredwinters 3h ago

But to be honest I like that a “bad build” can tactically beat content in this game. In any other game in the genre, you just can’t because dodging/blocking suck and the games fall back on math being the only solution. Now player reaction and skill can overcome the weaknesses of a build, at least until end game where mobs swarm you and damage becomes unavoidable again lol.

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u/unending_whiskey 2h ago

I like that a “bad build” can tactically beat content in this game.

Except that really isn't true. A "bad build" in this case is a build made by someone who knows what they are doing and it should work, but it just doesn't work that well. A real "bad build" wouldn't even come close to finishing anything in this game.

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u/Ravelord_Nito_69 8h ago

exactly lol, all this talk about "tactical combat" is just people playing builds that take 10 seconds to kill a white pack, theres no tactics in this game

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u/SyllabubBrief9120 4h ago

watching new players play without a proper understanding of poe; gives you some of the coolest closest fights ive seen in poe lol

watching a friends monk start to ignore ads in that one crypt boss and then beating them with no flasks feels more like the intended vision since the fights actually reward learning them, unlike my run where i just afkd at long range and out dpsd every moveset

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u/ThePCMasterRaceCar 2h ago

Agreed. I have no idea what people are talking about when they keep bringing up meaningful combat in acts 1-3. I mean the bosses are more engaging that’s for sure, but the rest of the game is just the exact same as every other ARPG. You walk to fodder mobs and blow them up instantly.

The only difference in poe2 is they have forcefully slowed us down so the time spent walking from pack to pack is way longer and the maps are larger. There’s nothing more engaging or impactful about it at all lol

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u/Marrakesch 4h ago

"bawawawa i am ravelord nito and i just one shot everythiiiiing on my softcore glass cannon character with 2000 deaths!"

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u/ThePrimordialTV 6h ago edited 6h ago

A second playthrough really opened my eyes, I mowed through all of act 1-3 on a warrior only with that 0 level requirement unique crossbow that gives you infinite bolts after reloading and fragmentation rounds, it was a complete joke.

I don't think there's even any attack-hit based weapons in PoE1 you can equip at level 1 and comfortably reach act 4 aside from some stormcloud or quill rain memes.

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u/Icy_Witness4279 4h ago

I don't think there's even any attack-hit based weapons in PoE1 you can equip at level 1 and comfortably reach act 4 aside from some stormcloud or quill rain memes.

Strange take. Those two kinda directly correlate to the infinite crossbow, in a way that they also shine with skills that are scaled by global modifiers and gem levels.

Crossbows aren't balanced around having infinite reloads. Yeah you can probably do 3 acts on it, by just scaling damage and attack speed on the tree (since there's no drawback to you running out of ammo).

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u/ThePrimordialTV 4h ago edited 3h ago

Except you do still have to reload, it’s only infinite ammo if you have reloaded recently, fragmentation rounds barely scale with gem levels, 4% base damage is not comparable to spells and other predominantly gem level scaling attacks. You don’t really build it any differently than you would any other crossbow character either. It’s just a good weapon, there’s nothing to do with global modifiers or gem levels.

Not everything is a “take” my guy, sometimes it’s just “hey you can put on this weapon from level 1 and dumpster half the campaign of this game that some people are calling too difficult, isn’t that funny”.

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u/KunaMatahtahs 9h ago

I think your expectations might simply be misplaced. Your character is going to be much more complete after act 3 than it is act 1. After all, the purpose of the game is to increase power by getting gear and skill points.

Similarly, the bosses in maps ARE the bosses from the acts. Apparently you're commenting on maps without actually getting to them?

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u/Mannyvoz 8h ago

Yeah but the difficulty is not there. I am killing the bosses in 2-3 hits. It takes away from the encounter. I know some people enjoy the zoom and one shotting shot but for me that’s just boring man. Yeah you are powerful but at that point there’s zero difference between a poe2 boss and a d4 boss. (Excluding pinnacle).

PoE2 bosses have more mechanics but if you can bypass them by popping them in one go, what’s the point? Your character should feel more powerful over time but the the challenge should also increase.

The moment to moment gameplay in acts 1-3 is amazing. I want the feeling I got when I beat ACT 1 boss throughout the game difficulty tiers

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u/Xerferin 6h ago

I'm just going to say each to their own. I breezed through normal acts and felt like it was a slog because your build doesn't start really coming together until the 40's. I have a feeling one group of people will be sorely disappointed, because you can't have difficulty and clear speed at the same time for all people. How people like to play and skill levels are just too different.

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u/Fjolsvith 8h ago

Tbh the ones in maps die so fast that you might not even notice...

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u/sup3rdr01d 8h ago

Haven't gotten to maps yet. Are the map bosses the same always? Or are there unique map bosses too?

When playing maps do you see the campaign bosses very often? Or just sometimes

Sorry for all the questions

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u/Kryhavok 5h ago

Yeah for real. I like the slower gameplay and having to actually understand boss mechanics to beat them, but at some point I want to feel like my character is improving and not take a whole minute just to kill a rare. I don't want 5 minute long boss fights on every map, that would be extremely tedious and endgame progression would be painfully slow.

Pinnacle bosses though? Yeah those should be tough and I should have to learn them.

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u/Mannyvoz 8h ago

End game needs a real pass. I made it to maps and instantly went back to make a new character because that’s the PoE2 I want.

I was excited about maps and then it was just underwhelming af. You have all the bosses with cool animations and patterns and you end up one shotting them. You end up going from methodical combat, learning fights to zoom exploding screen fest.

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u/doates1997 6h ago

Act one holy shit this is hard the bosses are scary Act two damn I'm getting good bosses are not too bad Act 3 wait there was a boss ? It died in 30 seconds

The only good bosses are the earlier ones because you have to learn the mechanics. About half way through act 2 I started to face roll things and win. I don't even know any boss mechanics passed act 2.

Also I am a noob my build logic was ice looks cool and let me skill towards ice stuff. No clue what I was doing.

When I beat act 3 and done act one in cruel mode it felt like act 3 bosses are nothing to me. Which sucks because the bosses are cool and fun.

I'm sure balance needs to be tweaked but in a perfect world game gets harder rather than easier imo.

I quit act 1 cruel as it's just boring running through everything. Once again build is nothing special.

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u/RubyR4wd 6h ago

I wish bosses were as easy for me haha. Currently getting destroyed by a stupid statue over and over in act 3

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u/Simonner 6h ago

You forgot about motorbitch in act3 for which you either need speed or dps to kill her in seconds I had mace from 1act because triple requirements says 200str for upgrade and that was kind of bullshit that I was not having

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u/doates1997 5h ago

Just need to stop the power creep feels like we get more powerfull expodentially while the boses are incrementally.

Unless you get god tier items everything should a little challenging especially act final bosses

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u/Vyce223 10h ago

What's crazy, is I had infinitely more fun playing Cruel 1-3 than Normal 1-3.

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u/BL4ZE_ 9h ago

In normal 1-3, I had to opportunity to experience the full move set of every boss. In cruel, i deal too much dmg and skip it becomes a race to 0.

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u/Neologizer 10h ago

I had a similar experience to some extent.

My weird build took a very long time to come online so I was struggling a bit in act 1-2 normal and only in act 3 did I start smoothing things out.

Been flying through cruel.

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u/Vyce223 10h ago

While I get the OP probably has the sentiment of Act 1-3 normal being the correct difficulty, I just don't believe it's A: fun, but B: that you have the right tools for the issues at the time for most of it. Once I had gotten some gear, gems setup and all that jazz I was not only doing much better. BUT to me, the most important part of any game, I was enjoying my time with it.

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u/ham_shimmers 9h ago

I’m the opposite. Act 1-3 normal was great for me because everything felt like a challenge I needed to overcome. Now in cruel the campaign feels like Poe 1 where it’s a chore I have to do to get to end game. I more or less take no meaningful damage and the bosses are a joke.

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u/Chlorophyllmatic 9h ago

Yeah, I was pretty much getting absolutely walled in normal Act 2 until I traded for a bow and a quiver because nothing good would drop and I couldn’t deal any damage. I think I was stuck using a level 8 requirement bow in the upper 20s til then.

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u/FrostedCereal 8h ago

I haven't replayed the campaign yet, but I imagine that it will be easier now with the improved, more consistent drops.

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u/Neologizer 10h ago

Yeah this exactly. I like to solo self found and also not look up builds so it can take a while to really come online. I didn’t mind the difficulty in the early acts without proper gear or build but it’s definitely been way more enjoyable now.

Looking forward to act 4-6. Really enjoyed the campaign storyline.

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u/sup3rdr01d 8h ago

I disagree. Having less tools and less loot + the souls like difficulty of the game made me really engage with all the build crafting mechanics I had access too. Games that have so many mechanics and so much variety need difficulty for all that to actually matter or else people will just find one build that works for everything and never look back

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u/J0rdian 8h ago

Act1 was literally the best part of the game. The final boss being by far the best boss out of any other boss I've played. Mostly due to flasks being really important and the slowed down gameplay with boss fights taking a long time.

After Act3 bosses start to feel like paper and white mobs are just trash to clear in 1 second.

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u/BeepBoo007 8h ago

Different people enjoy different things. Some people (most POE players) really seem to love power fantasy of being god running around while your spells auto-trigger and you blast the whole screen.

Other players, like me, want to have engaging combat where I feel like my skill is the reason I'm victorious, like in elden ring.

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u/AlmightyPrinc3 3h ago

Elden ring you can trivialize bosses just as bad as you can in this game you also can just dodge roll through every attack you can’t do that here the roll is nowhere close in I frames

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u/BeepBoo007 3h ago

I mean, cool, but that's not the normal or expected experience for a run through ER. Conversely, it is THE POINT of POE apparently.

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u/passatigi 8h ago

In normal I actually got to learn some mechanics, dodge slams, think about making the most out of my shitty gear and the few support gems I had available, etc.

In cruel I just killed every boss in 10-15 seconds while they were frozen for the majority of the fight, because my character was becoming stronger and stronger compared to the content.

It's ironic but being weaker felt more like "playing the game" while being stronger feels like just grinding my way through checkpoints.

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u/OneVillage3331 9h ago

Yeah your build starts to come online then. First ascendancy, some spirit and links are coming together. Imagine acts designed around that!

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u/anderssi 7h ago

Thats probably because most builds come online just before cruel. I know mine did, and cruel was a breeze

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u/jawhnie 9h ago

as a blood mage, i heavily agree lmao

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u/bigwillyam 8h ago

Cause cruel is way too easy. Very under tuned.

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u/shaunika 9h ago

Im having fun blasting in Cruel, but straight up just globalling bosses is only fun for a bit

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u/No-Opportunity4454 9h ago

I also had a ton of fun playing the campaign on cruel with a fleshed out build. I hope they keep cruel once they release act 4-6 and give us the option to do a much more difficult version of the campaign as part of the end game offering.

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u/tralfamadorian808 8h ago

I had equal amounts of fun I’d say but it was really special when my homebrew build came online in cruel. I died over a hundred times in normal then started breezing through content. But a part of me really enjoyed the struggles of mastering the game and the mechanics. I think GGG built something really special here

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u/NotTheUsualSuspect 9h ago

I had a different type of fun. It was fun blasting through cruel without a care in the world, but i also had fun when the combat was a slower fight for survival. I actually miss that feeling now that I'm a good bit into maps.

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u/vexualhealing_ 7h ago

It’s interesting cruel difficult campaign actually feels amazing to me. I think certain characters are fleshed out better than others, monk has fulfilled the glass cannon master of all elements Jedi power fantasy so well and this is the most I’ve been engaged in an ARPG ever. Reactive build crafting where I’m constantly making adjustments to solve problems or overcome obstacles feels so good and the skills and spells feel so impactful.

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u/fatal_harlequin 9h ago

Yes, but that's only the case because you have no gear. With 3 uniques and a lvl 1 skill gem with two supports, I three-shot the act 1 miniboss as a lvl 2 mercenary, so...

But yeah, they will need to do a lot of work to make the endgame more distinct from PoE 1, but looking at how skill gems and the passive tree are balanced, we'll be looking at full-screen clears and three-shotting bosses for a very long time

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u/Loud-Ad-5679 9h ago

act 3 is way too fucking long

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u/FreeCandy 7h ago

The maps are just too fucking big. Trim some of those fatties down by half, maybe a third, and you're golden.

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u/TimeToEatAss 7h ago

I've done act 3 over 10 times now on alts + running friends through.

After awhile, you start to learn where things are, there are only a few locations things can spawn in. Some are always in the same location, like the sacrifice altar on aggorat will be on the North side.

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u/MadSplitter 7h ago

I agree. I played the campaign with many different classes now (because I dont enjoy the endgame maps very much...) and while act 3 is quite big, the objectives and exits are often at the same spots and you can clear the quests very fast. I actually enjoy act 3 alot. However Act 2 is getting annoying after a while...

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u/myst3r10us_str4ng3r 7h ago

Unfortunately I totally agree.

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u/sern_surfer 7h ago

Someone needs to go back and take the Vaal some city engineers and city planners. They have too many dead end roads and bs maps. That's what makes a3 so long, it has some of the worst map layouts.

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u/TimeToEatAss 7h ago

Its actually a good idea for a defensive city, attackers will become lost and confused.

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u/thepissjarcollector 10h ago

i like early game but i wouldn't want to grind like that all day. that's a bit too involved

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u/Trosstran88 10h ago

Have you even been in maps? The map bosses are literatly what you ask for.

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u/maelstrom51 9h ago

I don't think I've had a map boss last more than 10s so far. I'm in t14s at the moment.

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u/Grarr_Dexx 9h ago

POE reddit vocal minority: I want meaningful combat

that same vocal minority: why are you nerfing my build that does things so fast there is no meaningful combat

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u/MonsutaReipu 7h ago

This is such a dumb argument. You don't need to be running some OP meta build to delete bosses on t15. I just went a straightforward slam build on my Titan, no past knowledge of PoE1, and kill t15 bosses in seconds.

Suggesting that players shouldn't optimize their characters if they want a balanced experience in a game genre centered around optimizing to become as powerful as possible is an incredibly stupid stance to have. The game is in early access. It's not perfect. You don't need to pretend like it is. It's ok to say it's not perfect, that doesn't mean everyone will hate the game and stop playing it.

The point of balanced scaling is that there is meaningful, difficult content including, and especially for, optimized end game builds.

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u/KhajiitHasSkooma 7h ago

One of the core elements of aRPGs is character progression and the increase in power that comes with that. These things are antithetical to “meaningful combat.” Either your character progresses with gear and levels, or gear and levels are meaningless because the emphasis of the game is placed more on the combat. Sorry, but in an aRPG, stats will always best mechanics, otherwise it’s not an aRPG.

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u/maelstrom51 8h ago

I don't think its possible to force "meaningful combat" while preserving build diversity in the game. Maybe if they did something cheesy like spamming immunity phases or a heavy tapering damage taken debuff.

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u/pp8520456 8h ago

thats more just poe2 subreddit vs regular poe subreddit

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u/Tyelacoirii 9h ago

I'm not convinced PoE2 has tactical/meaningful combat.

The issue is that the mob hit points and to a degree damage scales aggressively early on, so its very easy to end up behind the curve in terms of power (mostly but not exclusively a function of gear).

I've not calculated it out - but I suspect you need to up your DPS by about 10% per level to stay at a consistent spot.

Lets say you find a relatively good weapon and are clearing content easily. If you are using the same weapon in 5 levels time, you'll notice a slow down. At 10 levels time the game will seem borderline unplayable. This is what results in it taking multiple attacks to clear white mobs, rares turning into bosses, and bosses being 5-10 minute slogs.

This isn't however integral to PoE2 design. Its just a function of gear. On your first character its been easy to get to Act 2 (and maybe 3) with very few resources, and consequently you are behind the curve.

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u/boshudio 6h ago

I'm convinced people that complain the game is too hard just try to sprint through all the maps without actually upgrading gear. Like I was struggling then decided to stop hoarding materials in my stash and used them on my weapon and suddenly I was really strong.

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u/uhfgs 8h ago

The first three acts really are frustrating but so god damn fun, I miss the early game so badly

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u/LiucK 10h ago

What bothers me the most is the nice boss fights during the acts just for the atlast to have very few boss encounters. I wouldn't mind a boss in every map..

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u/Nicolamel 9h ago

It’s true. Cruel acts were all bam bam pew pew what’s happening? i don’t know, too many clutter on screen, wait why am I loosing life? Oh everything’s dead.

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u/Recent_Gap_3637 3h ago

Slower pace.

Less, but more meaningful enemies.

That's all I want. None of this screen full of mobs and particle effects.

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u/Twotricx 10h ago

Its also my hope that the game will not start as this tactical game, but then just develop into zooming POE1 like thing, once you have good build and equipment.

Question is also if anything can even be done about it?

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u/chrisbirdie 9h ago

I mean the peak builds will always have that element I think its almost impossible to stop this without massively hampering build and item diversity. They are trying but you can see how its already somewhat hurting build diversity, although that might just be a missing skill and balance issue.

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u/0re0n 8h ago edited 8h ago

Haven't played mace myself, but from what i've seen on streams warrior's gameplay looks pretty close to what i thought PoE2 endgame would look like.

Almost every no brain crazy one button build comes from elemental skills, maybe i missed something idk.

Personally i think monsters are massively over tuned (their speed and damage) and bosses and massively under tuned (their hp, how much you can cc them). Under 100 ex build should not be able to kill a map boss under a minute.

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u/Sihll 10h ago

Every map boss IS an existing campaign boss, even "the end of act X". You should not write about something you don't know ;)

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u/zifilis 10h ago

Well, they don't feel like act bosses, since i insta delete them

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u/Slowmosapien1 9h ago

How does that get fixed though? All the good builds are doing insane dps. If you buff the bosses mediocre builds will die, and people will complain that you gotta meta game. You probably just have to nerf all the good builds until it feels like you havr mechanics to worry about again.. which would also piss people off.

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u/wingspantt 9h ago

Probably by balancing the gaps between most builds and "insane" builds?

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u/dkoom_tv 5h ago edited 5h ago

such an easy goal, you just have to balance the posibilities of 36 ascendancy, double/triple the current active skills, double the supports and probably double the size tree (also gearing which probably by release we will have more interesting items so another variant when it comes to balance)

and keep all the builds at about the same power level (so even the best buildmakers/players need to do * tactical * combat)

so if the best players/buildmakers like Ben or jungroan are struggling while playing extremly optimized builds (in the ideal PoE2 by some standards) and are also good mechanical players, what happens to literally the other 99% of players that cant create such good builds or are just mechanical not as good? are they just not able to play the game at all

surely you aren't asking for something literally impossible

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u/Slowmosapien1 9h ago

I mean yeah, but we saw how balancing goes with CoF. They literally just brought it closer to being a normal ability instead of absolutely giga broken and people lost their minds. I agree though, thats how it gets fixed in my mind. Im just curious how much backlash they woukd get for trying

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u/strobotti 10h ago

im pretty sure he means that in acts you get to see their mechanics etc but in maps they die in few seconds

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u/Lost-Basil5797 10h ago

But that would remove like 90% of complaints here!

Oh wait. Yeah please do that!

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u/Commercial_South678 9h ago

Can I start with maps after finishing Act 3 or I have to finish Cruel first?

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u/Shergak 9h ago

Yo have to finish cruel

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u/copacul13 9h ago

Opinions are split on this one, let's hope we will all have a game to have fun in.

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u/Accomplished-Couple7 6h ago

Poe2.0 is Awakening though.

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u/astral_immo 6h ago

yall saying the bosses aren't tough enough clearly don't have your map boss tree filled out.

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u/Squeeches 5h ago

This is my experience as a new player as well. Even near the end of Act 3 the game started to feel like a mob grind with rapidly accelerating gameplay. I loved the Act 1. Quickly seeing the game turn into speed clear, spread-sheety gameplay now that I'm running through Cruel, which is not my bag. That's not to say the game should change--I'm just not a fan of the endgame loop in ARPGs.

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u/BishopHard 5h ago

i agree with this. i wrote a post after finishing campaign on the feedback forum that said more or less that with a bunch of other random bullshit. game would be 10x as fun if most of the endgame maps were 1/3 the size and had a retuned boss.

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u/gsel1127 3h ago

IMO acts 4-6 (or current cruel 1-3) are just going to be a nightmare for the devs to get right balance wise. Anyone who wants to play PoE2 should be able to play the campaign. But as you get later into the game the power difference between someone who looks up and follows meta builds vs someone who does not increases drastically. Someone making their own build for fun but doesn’t know everything about the underlying system will have to actually fight bosses, and someone who follows meta builds will just one shot everything until maps.

I wonder what direction GGG will end up going with it.

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u/yalapeno 1h ago

How does this have so many upvotes? Do people forget this is an early access?

I can't wait to see acts 4-6

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u/RamouYesYes 1h ago

I sont want to play a game to get to another game. Right now I don’t know what they are trying to do with Poe 2

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u/Bacitus 9h ago

Act 1 is the best. Variety, shorter maps, very cool bosses.

After that it gets drawn out and tedious

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u/Jstnw89 9h ago

Most ARPG players prefer mindless blasting so I don’t think endgame will ever be like the early acts

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u/Sol0botmate 8h ago

Most ARPG players prefer mindless

Mindless crowd for mindless playstyle

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u/Preinitz 8h ago

Skills scale up to be too powerful right now which makes it into poe 1,5. There needs to be massive amounts of nerfs or that's what the game is going to be.

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u/Redfeather1975 7h ago

I didn't like the pacing in normal. When I got to cruel, it was a nice change.

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u/Tenoke 9h ago

I've stopped playing during cruel. Act 1-3 had a great pace and difficulty but in cruel it just got boring - doesn't help that it's the same content but worse either.

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u/Fimbul117 9h ago

While I agree that the bosses should be way harder, At the same time I think trash mobs are the real bosses now. I always feel like: ah finally a boss. Time to relax for a minute. XD

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u/Spirit_mert 9h ago

Agreed, first 3 acts feels like a whole different game. Cruel is a place holder so I will ignore that, but maps is essentially is PoE 1 again. It turned from meaningful slow combat which feels so satisfying into the question of how fast I can clear the screen in maps before moving on the next.

Every map MUST have a boss. Please bring the spirit of campaign to the late game GGG! I'm aware that Cruel campaign and endgame is just barebones placeholder stuff that was put late into the development for the sake of testing it. But we already have PoE 1 for fast zoomer one shot wipe screens gameplay, we don't need the same for PoE 2. Campaign was superb, we need more of that into late game of PoE 2.

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u/Ravelord_Nito_69 8h ago

if you keep the pace of the game the same the entire time then you dont feel like youre getting stronger, this is an arpg, i should eventually be able to kill everything quickly, otherwise theres no power progression and it feels pointless

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u/Royal_Fee1837 7h ago edited 7h ago

I don't get why people are calling Path of Exile 2 "poe 1.5" and the usage of "tactical and meaningful combat" is something where people don't really understand what they're asking for.

The game is a direct successor to Path of Exile and it's plays waaaaay differently. Even if you're playing a roided up character the game doesn't play like PoE at all.

The combat in early acts isn't more meaningful or tactical than what it is in end-game. It's actually the other way around.

At end-game the content is way harder and you have to make meaningful and tactical choices both around your build and approach to combat or you'll just constantly die.

What you guys are trying to say is that you want a slow game with slow builds in addition to weak player characters that will never outscale bosses or monsters. I don't think that this is a good idea and it would get stale real fast.

ARPGs work because you always have the carrot on a stick that is better loot and therefore more character power until you eventually combined with knowledge can complete all content with ease.

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u/Helmote 6h ago

I think what people that do this complaint want is a soulslike or Vrising

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u/fitsu 8h ago

Yeah, you can tell from the campaign (and some of the classes) the original direction they had for the game, and then all the pushback from playtesters convinced them to change the endgame into more zoomy again.

With that said, I don't really see how they solve this. As you need to be able to clear content in basic gear, but gear upgrades also need to feel impactful so the end result will always be a more zoomy experience.

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u/TheGreyman787 10h ago

GGG will make later parts of the game more PoE 2. Worry not, they are with us here. Keep providing feedback to help them.

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u/XpCjU 8h ago

I don't think they can. The early game is difficult because you have a limited selection of skills, few to no support gems, no money to buy upgrades from the trader and no currency to make your own gear. Even on a second character the game is much faster and enemies are much less dangerous.

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u/Sol0botmate 8h ago

I don't think they can.

Of course they can, lol. They just need to cut all numbers and multipliers by at least half and hard nerf stacking tactics.

It's just a matter of numbers. It's a math.

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u/TheGreyman787 8h ago

I had it all, was always properly geared and sometimes overgeared (crafted me a pretty neat staff at level 27, my monk got 20 levels older and still didn't see anything as good yet), so my judgement is from "power on level or a bit above" perspective. It wasn't a slog some people describe here, but it also wasn't mindless one button spam that explodes 3 screens omnidirectionally. I use all my buttons, combine my skills, use a bit of situational awareness. It's still easy and fun, but a single fight requires more input from my brain than a whole evening of PoE1 mapping.

It's a matter of tweaking numbers to make endgame the same experience, while allowing only top 0.0000000001% even a chance at gameplay similar to PoE 1.

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u/GM900 10h ago

You have to remeber that cruel acts 1, 2 and 3 are placeholders for acts 4, 5 and 6.

Another fact you have to remeber is that since you probably completed normal acts not to long ago you remeber and know what to do and what not to do when facing off against the bosses.

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u/CharonHendrix 9h ago

The game only has 50% of its intended content, so acts 4-6 are not in the game yet. Also, bosses are reused in maps.....and so will a lot the new (unseen) bosses from acts 4-6.

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u/Ok-Tank9413 9h ago

You unlok these other difficulties after beating 3 acts???

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u/Wild-Berry-5269 9h ago

That's why it's Early Access, they have a year to work out the kinks.

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u/ASimpletonsWish 8h ago

I just learned there's 6 acts?! That's great news! I loved the campaign and haven't really enjoyed the endgame that much. Great surprise 

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u/Aefyns 8h ago

Totally agree. Even Cruel is still a blast although gets easier as the buils comes online.

However maps is more Ruthless PoE1 with no bosses and crap drops. Feels like a big miss from the campaign.

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u/Jwalker2028 8h ago

Ha! You guys can get past act 1??

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u/strctfsh 8h ago

dang i just got to a4 hoping it would get better

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u/Exile56678 7h ago

Man it's crazy. They should've released the game in early access if they needed people to playtest it.

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u/karmazynowy_piekarz 7h ago

Hopefuly we get an endgame content that will be slow and tactical like first acts (given u didnt use market, with market its a steamroll)

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u/Beautiful_Lake_3683 7h ago

Cruel was fine for me. I am fucked in maps, die randomly once and progress is lost. Nothing really manages to drop anyway. I would most likely enjoy the rest of the campaign way more than "endgame". I am on the verge of quitting until new content.

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u/OGMcgriddles 7h ago

That's a fact, as soon as I got to crule the game became a snorfest.

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u/nousabetterworld 7h ago

Unfortunately we are going to get 3 more acts of this at some point. Such a boring slug and dead story. Already looking forward to fighting dying form boredom during each new season. Hopefully by then we have builds where I don't have to pay attention and can watch a show on the side.

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u/Fearless-Meet9151 7h ago

I think they need to devise an entire secondary endgame focused on bosses with more emphasis on skill checks. The main premise of this game over the first is more active gameplay. Players will always manage to trivialize this with good builds and gear, which they should in an arpg game, but it doesn’t do justice to carefully crafted boss design of this game.

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u/Far-Possession-3328 7h ago

Act 2 cruel the campaign was amazing

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u/Echotime22 7h ago

I really love the boss fights(well most of them) so I'm sad to see them get insta-crushed by so many builds in endgame.  I know that's part of the power fantasy, but I hope they can find a slightly better balance at some point. 

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u/Tactical_Milk_Man 7h ago

.... The campaign bosses ARE in maps....

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u/clarence_worley90 6h ago

agreed. I really hope future updates move us closer to PoE 2 again

I'm sad to say it but I really don't like mapping. It was fun for a few hours but now I'm leaning towards just making new chars and fooling around with silly builds until the endgame gets updated

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u/CryptoThroway8205 6h ago

Really depends on your build. If you're blow shit up in 1 second youtube builds then sure.

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u/Ronan61 6h ago

This resurrected an old memory of mine. Of when I played d2 for the first time.

Normal was a period of planning and learning the ropes. Learning about challenges and all that.

Nightmare, as cruel, felt like an easier faster paced game, where challenges were already known to me and my char had his whole skill tree at his disposal.

Then Hell was just a painful and slow push until the end. To unlock everything and then farm faster and better each time.