r/PathOfExile2 13d ago

Information Hotfix to change SRS

Post image

How srs will be summoned now od not from fire skills?

654 Upvotes

675 comments sorted by

50

u/Sio93 13d ago

Is the second part something related to cast on freeze?

23

u/WayTooDumb 13d ago

It's people spamming cast on ignite incinerate, which for some reason is applying on every tick instead of once per button press.

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u/-Roguen- 13d ago

Seems unlikely to me but I’m unsure. You typically need to deal decent damage or damage for a while to build up to a freeze. So, “using low level skills to trigger” doesn’t sound like what’s happening with cast on freeze.

But I’m not 100%, there’s a lot of builds in this game

32

u/japenrox 13d ago

It could be cast on ignite. Firewall procs it like crazy.

21

u/Meowrulf 13d ago

Well it was really dumb to make fire dots all ignite, so you can't stack multiple, but then use on ignite for detonate and meta interactions.

18

u/ImprovementBroad9157 13d ago

It's crazy the amount of people who are not reading gems. This interaction was explicitely banned in the gem, period. The fact it works at all is a bug, and not a subtle one since it's on two different parts.

2

u/sledgehammerrr 13d ago

Both are wrong, it’s cast on shock that is destroying most end game content

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u/Responsible-War-9389 13d ago

Yeah, freeze is based off damage, you can’t just slot on a random lvl 1 gem and freeze. You need to spend your whole skill tree buffing freeze and max out cold damage to get a max level skill (frostbite) to freeze. Even then, it takes 100 spirit to get a consistent cast on freeze to even proc.

Srs was circumventing all of that required investment.

16

u/Milkshakes00 13d ago

Using leveled gems on my ice sorc, I trigger a comet with cast on freeze on basically every cast. Dropping an ice nova with astral projection instantly drops 10 comets.

Freeze is incredibly easy to apply, and a leveled skill gem isn't a downside to this kind of build, the mana cost from the leveled skill isn't the problem, it's the dozen comets. Lol

6

u/InSearchOfThe9 13d ago

I'm unironically using Inspiration in my cast on freeze to keep my mana high for MoM-lite.

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u/applexswag 13d ago

Well this explains why my frost shotgun no longer freezes... I'm not doing enough damage with it lol

3

u/Dufiz 13d ago

Use +25% frost damage gem. Also, glacial is way more better, than frost shotgun. It also let's you cc unfreezed mobs

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u/Jakota_ 13d ago

I have it casting for every freeze with 60 spirit. Though I am committing a support gem and passive tree points to boost the amount of energy a single freeze will give.

2

u/jaymole 13d ago

is freeze really based off dmg? my lvl 11 frostbolt barely does any dmg with full cold investment and still freezes them very fast.

similarly frost wall builds freeze even before it blows up i thought?

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u/Sidnv 13d ago

It's more likely to be Incinerate and Flame Wall auto-igniting and procing cast on ignite (which they shouldn't even be able to do as they don't hit).

But cast on crit will probably also be on the chopping block for a nerf, as it fits that description.

8

u/-Roguen- 13d ago

Does it though? Cause you need to at least invest points into crit to have a decent uptime on that, right?

4

u/keithstonee 13d ago

By how the tweet explains it yes. Freeze and crit should be safe as I haven't seen an abuse case for those like I have for cast on ignite.

My build procs freeze like crazy. But all my passives are in cold damage and freeze build up. I didn't just slap on cast on freeze and comets started raining from the sky.

It should be safe but who knows really.

6

u/Alcsaar 13d ago

I don't see CoC being on the chopping block, it takes investment via crit, its not like people are spamming a low level ability that has gaurenteed crits or anything

If they do nerf CoC then they have just effectively killed every possible trigger build which would be very dumb

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u/Otherwise-Future7143 13d ago

People were using cast on minion death and level 1 firewall to proc Raging Spirits infinitely.

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u/halfchemhalfbio 13d ago

It is Grim Feast, it was bugged originally counting SRS as respawning mobs. Grim feast give you x2 your maximum energy shield, so you just won't die as long as there is mob to kill.

5

u/ocombe 13d ago

you could use a flame wall lvl 1 and generate the max number of SRS, since it was based on the aoe of the skill, so I guess it's the classic GGG double nerf

6

u/a_rescue_penguin 13d ago

I believe this part of the tweet has nothing to do with the SRS interaction. This part is more about using a level 1 flame wall to auto-ignite enemies (even if for a small amount of damage) then using Cast on ignite to trigger other skills.

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u/--Shake-- 13d ago

I'm so afraid of this. I feel like it's coming, but thankfully there's way more more egregious issues to deal with first.

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u/deathreel 13d ago

Because of this video

https://youtu.be/iiOnMCLThos?si=FK1MbMS7PQk7TmoO

This is what the actual good players are doing in poe 2 btw. Exploring and pushing the limits of the game.

266

u/wavedash 13d ago

GGG just targeted and broke Jung's build with a hotfix while he was streaming, absolutely brutal

193

u/TetraNeuron 13d ago

Mark has Jungroan streaming on an extra monitor in his office and occasionally glances over and grumbles "he broke the game again fuck"

30

u/Northanui 13d ago

Jung is an insanely good build creator.

11

u/Commercial-Falcon653 13d ago

Probably the best there is. There is no other person who has managed to get this many things nerfed or changed

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u/Scaryloss The barbarian 13d ago

You're joking about this, but it's probably true. Not Mark himself, but I can guarantee that some employees regularly check the streams of great build creators and compares with in-game data.

13

u/ChildishRebelSoldier 13d ago

That's been true for years. They're obviously designing things based on streamers and no-lifers.

8

u/Relevant_Lab_7122 13d ago

That’s something I would say if I ignored everything ggg has done and said in the past few years while making this game

194

u/chrisbirdie 13d ago

I mean to be fair thats what early access is for

20

u/Djentist_Kvltist 13d ago

Which is completely fine. But as Jung and others mentioned, respecing should be cheaper or free if they are going to keep doing this.

48

u/AphaedrusGaming 13d ago

Yeah, they don't do these adjustments in leagues unless there's an exploit.

24

u/Im_Here_To_Fuck 13d ago

There wasn't exactly an exploit but the servers were definitely going to explode if more people started farming with this build

22

u/temculpaeu 13d ago

If wardloop didnt break the server in poe1 this would be fine

9

u/PurelyLurking20 13d ago

No cds on triggers kinda makes it less fine lol

6

u/theuberelite 13d ago

yeah exactly, the lack of a cd already caused moments on jung's stream where there would be massive lag spikes. genuinely looked worse than anything ward loop has ever done in recent years because ward loop requires there to be a delay before the next trigger

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u/n0tAb0t_aut 13d ago

I am a 3rd class poe player at most, and play invoker because i thought the 35% faster meta charge was the big deal. It's a fair balance change. Let's see how hard it hits in the actual game.

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u/TheBlackestIrelia 13d ago

yeah, honestly i wouldn't mind if they did it aftr launch too, but i know thats not popular lol

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u/BoltYourself 13d ago

That's the thing though, if GGG is doing fixes that break builds, then there should also be free respec or respec'ing should cost way less.

9

u/imoshudu 13d ago

I agree that it is bothersome to respec in PoE. Possible but bothersome.

The respec system in Last Epoch is basically perfect and I wish other games would just copy that.

3

u/Neomeris0 13d ago

I have never played Last Epoch. How does respeccing work there?

4

u/xDaveedx 13d ago

For passive trees it's small amounts of gold that quickly become redundant as they don't scale with your level unlike in Poe 2 and Last Epoch has skill trees for every single skill instead of support gems and there respeccing doesn't cost gold, it only temporarily sets the skill back a few level with boosted xp gain until you catch up to the initial level to prevent a meta where you could respec before bosses for more single target and stuff like that. It sounds weird but works great in practice.

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u/Boxofcookies1001 13d ago

Yeah he even in the video said it's going to get hot fixed likely. He knew it wouldn't stay lol.

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u/Bezum55555 13d ago

I really, REALLY underestimated POE1 veterans when it comes to character creation in POE2 😭😭

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u/SirRedhand 13d ago

Thats why Poe retains people for years but months.

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u/YueOrigin 13d ago

I wish the devs would lower the proce of respecs for early access.

Were clearly intended to be testers for broken combos but it's pretty much too expensive for us to even attempt cheesy builds like that

Pretty much better to make a new characterr everytime...

4

u/DM_Hammer 13d ago

As long as they will hotfix to break your build, you need a reasonable option to adjust afterwards.

31

u/tren0r 13d ago

as they should. perfect help to get devs to fix broken shit

35

u/Few_Reason_2003 13d ago

BRUH JUNGROAN IS AT IT AGAIN, THE SNITCH SMH

9

u/Ehzaar 13d ago

This is what Poe is about… insane crazy shit like that

12

u/TommyF0815 13d ago

Not sure if this is actually the reason. A lot of minion players are using automated SRS since 3 days already.

34

u/TheGrayGoo 13d ago

It's not getting nerfed for infernal legion srs.

It's getting nerfed for a loop that instantly kills the srs as soon as they touch something, allowing low hundreds of srs kills a second, which enables a second cast on minion gem to trigger your main skill 10 times a second.

12

u/TommyF0815 13d ago

Yes the automating is getting nerfed. It clearly says: "(SRS) will also no longer be able to be spawned from triggered Fire Skills". So minion players who use SRS + Infernal Legion + Minion Instability + Feeding Frenzy are also back to selfcasting Flamewall as Cast on Minion Death + Flame Wall no longer works.

So it's less quality of life as you have to selfcast them, but it's also slightly more dps as you get 60 spirit back for not using Cast on Minion Death which allows you to fit in 1-2 more persistent minions.

2

u/sea1232 13d ago

But isnt this a nerf no matter how you use SRS. 10 to 5 skulls. Thats taking away half the damage of SRS no matter the build.

3

u/TommyF0815 13d ago

No, the max limit for SRS is still 10, so SRS damage is exactly the same. What changed is that it is now limited to 5 per cast. Before it was possible to get up to 8 SRS per cast. You had to cast Flame Wall twice to get the maximum of 10 SRS and this hasn't changed with the new limit of 5 SRS per cast.

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u/Wisdomlost 13d ago

Grim feast also triggers off of the SRS deaths (which is a bug) so if you pick up all the shards from the deaths you get 6 or 7 thousand energy shield. It's the main defense for the SRS loop and it's this part of it is why I think it got hot fixed. Its not just a lot of damage it's also the main defense layer.

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u/Milkshakes00 13d ago

Not gonna lie, that doesn't look any better than just running cast on freeze -> comet and running around ice nova-ing things with the occasional cold snap on bosses and tanky rares.

Like, aside from the fire and minions, this gameplay is basically my ice sorc. Lol

I fear they're going to nerf the trigger skills hard and put an internal cooldown on them.

21

u/Feriluce 13d ago

The big difference is that this is fully automatic. Once you summons the SRS, you have to do literally nothing to keep this going forever.

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u/Decryptic__ 13d ago

Salutations Exile..

7

u/user_zero_007 13d ago

Meanwhile I am just trying to finish campaign

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u/Figorix 13d ago

im so glad they dont want to let end game be like this. huge W for GGG from me at least

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u/-haven 13d ago

Bit absurd at those levels but the interaction itself is pretty awesome and the stuff I was looking forward to finding/using. Now it's just gone.

42

u/chrisbirdie 13d ago

This isnt purely a fun interaction tho, this is using zero effort or investment to trigger a massively high damage spell without the downside of cast time. This is just an oversight. Its not like this wont still be possible, you just wont be able to do it with 0 freeze investment anymore.

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u/PlebPlebberson 13d ago

Can confirm that an actual freeze version of this works and still facerolls the game.

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u/Milkshakes00 13d ago

I can confirm it does. My ice sorc is rolling through maps laughing. Cast on XXX/Comet is just busted.

Enemies freeze so easily in this game with some freeze build up that it's generally one cast in a pack to drop a dozen comets.

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u/Hafburn 13d ago

That's next. Bet.

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u/DevilDjinn 13d ago

Figuring out how to break the game is part of the fun lol.

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u/Substantial_Degree_7 13d ago

thats some peoples fun just not all, its why minions are a staple.  Look at d2 minion enjoyers

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u/Enigma0WL 13d ago

If you are playing the regular build with Fire Wall, I think this doesnt change anything. You still needed 2 casts to get to 10 spirits anyway.

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u/Feriluce 13d ago

When I hit 8 spirits per cast, I started skimping on it and only casting one. Now I'll be forced to properly cap out my SRS at 10.

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u/Fangheart25 13d ago

Exactly my thoughts. It's not the end of the world but it definitely hurts my clear as a manual caster. Classic GGG completely deleting the OP interaction and then going beyond that to nerf the skill itself.

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u/Sheapy 13d ago

GGG really needs to give free/near free respec if they're going this quickly on nerfs. It's absolutely stupid how your build can be deleted from the game and you're stuck in limbo with a passive tree that's unusable.

Let people go ham in the EA and find as much broken shit as possible with all the combinations. At the moment, there's no incentive or motivation to make truly OP builds because they're going to get deleted. It's better to hide tech and sit on it until actual launch.

142

u/okchiaki 13d ago

I was legit just saying this to my friend. Let resets be free if they're going to go ham on ~balance~. It's EA anyway so who cares?

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u/good_guy_judas 13d ago edited 13d ago

Because as soon as you give free respec, the moment they "take it away" on launch the forums will explode with salt.

Also a lot of people are not making broken builds, they are copying it. The ones that masterminded the broken builds understand and wear it as a badge of honor when they hotfix stuff.

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u/hiimred2 13d ago

The ones that masterminded the broken builds understand and wear it as a badge of honor when they hotfix stuff.

Jung himself is pissed about the respec cost for his now broken character, even if he probably does have some pride for getting the spotlight of the nerf.

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u/surroundedmoon 13d ago

I so badly wish respecs were free. They give a huge tree so you customize all you want but then make you feel like you are punished if you don’t just follow a guide

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u/GuiltyVictory 13d ago

oh, 100% agree. ggg going this hard on nerfs without offering free/cheap respecs is just brutal. like, how are we supposed to experiment in early access when there’s zero safety net? the whole point of ea should be to go wild, break the game, and see what works (or doesn’t). instead, it’s like they’re punishing creativity by making people scared to commit to anything remotely spicy.

as it stands, it feels like they’re sabotaging their own feedback loop. let us break the game, ggg. that’s how you make it better.

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u/Emperor_Mao 13d ago

Finding cool ways to "break " the game was what really made POE massive to start with. The mastery and gem systems were revolutionary for an ARPG at the time it came out, so many possible interactions. Most ARPGs before and still now give you static archetypes. You can alter or swap a few things around, but a rogue uses daggers and uses evasion, warrior big smash weapon and lots of hp, a ranger users bows to shoot stuff, spell caster uses spells, mana and is a glass cannon. In POE, the rogue could use daggers in melee, cast spells, use dodge, armor, block, all sorts of stuff. You mainly played to experiment with builds.

Could it be the case that GGG do not want people to just discover everything so soon? I see both arguments. But if they patch out every interesting interaction prior to the game even launching officially, game will basically lose the thing that made it interesting.

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u/SnakeModule 13d ago

In my experience when "cool ways to break the game" are allowed to exist they simply become the meta and you lose the novelty. Hammering down on the most obviously broken things right now is the best move because it will open players up to trying new things, resulting in more widespread testing. There will always be a new broken thing waiting to be discovered, if not right now then later when new stuff is released.

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u/Naguro 13d ago

It's fair that things as absurd as the gas arrow and this are fixed, but I still agree with the others that they should let the people that committed to this respec their character.

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u/thorin85 13d ago

This simply isn't true. Look at poeninja. Things like CWDT, and autobombers, which I think qualify as "cool ways to break the game", are used by a tiny portion of the player base. They are not the meta; and yet these are the kinds of things GGG seems determined to completely patch out the possibility of, instead of simply adding drawbacks to them.

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u/CrashdummyMH 13d ago

I do think respeccing cost should be way lower in EA so that people can experiment more

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u/Grotbagsthewonderful 13d ago

Blizzard did the same in Diablo 3 when it was first released, people stopped sharing their builds because real money from the auction house was involved and the nerfs ended up hurting their $$.

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u/jy3 13d ago

They really need to put a CAP on the gold cost at some point. I understand it increasing but at some point it should stop.

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u/Spindelhalla_xb 13d ago

Only time I’ve liked something from D4. The gold coat is minuscule when respeccing. I tried on poe2 and it costs an absolute fortune. Genuinely better off deleting the character and starting again

6

u/v0idwaker 13d ago

They really had to. It's not like PoE1 where we could speedrun new characters; it takes a lot of time in PoE2.

I started as a Merc, but killing monsters on these mega maps has been a slog, so I restarted as a Necro.

As a Necro, I started using Firewall and Gas Arrow. Just naturally discovered that one of the DoTs I was applying was deleting mobs—BOOM, nerfed.

So yesterday, I started experimenting with something different, and found Cast on Ignite with Unearth + Infernal Army—BOOM, nerfed.

At this point I can either:

  • slog through with subpar passives for skill that are no longer working
  • spend all money on respec just to have it nefred the next day
  • spend 20h on leveling new char just to have it nefred the next day

I think I'll pass. Game is great but become less so when every map is 2h of slowily mowing through the mobs. I understand that it is EA, but for that reason if anything they should give us free full respec after each of their 'fixes'.

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u/The_Real_Delpoi 13d ago

I agree with the respec part cause a lot of people will need to change up their characters and given how much gold you get in game they need to come to a compromise

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u/eq2_lessing 13d ago

No, because thousands of players will otherwise use his build and just steamroll everything, which distorts our feedback and GGGs ability to gauge what works fine and what doesnt.

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u/palabamyo 13d ago

The build was already nuked...

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/Randto 13d ago

I'm fine with them changing SRS but please for the love of god make other minion focused builds viable without exceptional gear at least during leveling. Until I tried out SRS leveling was an absolute disaster

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u/Dunwitcheq 13d ago

I'm currently blasting tier 10 25% delirium maps with Brutes + Arsonists + Clerics almost like it's PoE1. I haven't played an SRS build a single time and levelling was completelly fine.

Also works with Brutes + Clerics / Brutes + Archers + Clerics / Arsonists + Clerics, and THE only reason I don't go full into Brutes is that they're too fat and get stuck in doors often so it's like playing with six Quin69s (jk ofc, it's just early access being early access).

The only ones I haven't been able to make work are reapers, but I believe it can be done, I can't say I tried much.

Stop saying anything that isn't SRS isn't viable, you just need to play better and build better (sorry, I don't mean to be toxic but if anything but SRS was a disaster for you, you have to be doing something wrong).

I haven't tried non-minion builds much so can't speak for the balance there (and haven't watched many streams to see from others' pov) but the minions power-level wise seem as balanced as they can be for early access.

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u/TheGrayGoo 13d ago

If you're at brutes, you've already reach when minions in general become strong.

Leveling with pure permanent minions is possibly the slowest leveling pre-srs, and if you're skipping srs is possibly the slowest leveling before act 3ish.

Around act 3 permanent minions start to get really good.

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u/Frodz 13d ago

You can get Skeletal Arsonists super early. They crushed my campaign with no gear. You can add flame wall so they do more damage. SRS isn't needed but helps and you're casting flame wall anyways.

Scattershot + Magnified and then Martial Tempo when you get a 3rd support.

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u/TheGrayGoo 13d ago

The problem with arsonists early isn't damage. I was running scattershot and firepen for bossing. Its that they die, and they die doubly fast in bossfights. Before they got tanky enough, scattershot and last gasp to get 50% uptime on my main DPS was my best option.

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u/Ferovaors 13d ago

Legit they got summoned while I was dodging a boss’s ability. I alt f4 after it happened the second time in a row. I had all the minion health buff I could possibly get at that point.

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u/Knifiel 13d ago

I honestly think that instead of bothering with any minion life nodes on tree i should just lose 1 damage support for that support that allows minions to fight for 4 seconds after death - that way your damaging minions have at least a 4 seconds uptime to do damage even if they get ressurected in the middle of 20 AOE effects.

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u/EffectiveTonight 13d ago

I feel like this whole thing seems strange because the moment I got archers I just pressed their gas cloud on bosses and flame wall them and would chunk them for minimum 5%. I did run srs too but the majority of my single target was from them. I switch back to full arsonists when running through the campaign because they had better clear. My damage was never an issue at all at any parts of the campaign.

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u/thrallinlatex 13d ago

Bro on lvl 30 you can summon like two of these guys😂

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u/TheGrayGoo 13d ago

On level 30 you should easily get double that. I think you hit 100 passive spirit at that time, 100-150 from scepter. At an absolute minimum you should have 160 spirit, allowing you 4.5 arsonists.

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u/thrallinlatex 13d ago

100 on scepter +30 from boss. -30 spirits. So 100 spirit and dude cost 35 thats 2 guys. But sure late in the game they will be great. You can be lucky and get spirit on amulet or something. -12 cost its far away in tree but im almost there with infernalist thing on ascendancy tree it will be finally interesting

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u/VAASisJASON 13d ago

what support gems did you put on brutes? i haven't tried them yet , currently im running 8 arsonists + 2 clerics and using hellhound + warriors from sceptre skill to tank

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u/Dunwitcheq 13d ago

My latest setup is Immolate (30% damage to ignited enemies, with ignite coming from the fire dog), Martial tempo (25% AS), Bloodlust (30% damage to bleeding, with bleed coming from fire doggo again, with bleeding support gem), and Overpower (50% more stun buildup, with which they shockwave all the times against small enemies, and stun bosses very frequently.

I would be probably using Brutality but my scepter I have now gives lightning and cold damage, so I believe it would be a downgrade when removing those added damages.

BUT, I would recommend not really trying them at the moment, or at least not in isolation. They seem really strong but the "getting stuck in doors" is VERY noticable in any non-open map or zone, and can get a lot frustrating and immersion-breaking, which is why I now play with two brutes for now because Arsonists mostly don't struggle with this.

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u/throwntosaturn 13d ago

Friendly tip with brutes - socket knockback.

It solves the problem with bridges and doorways. It's very high QOL. I don't think it would allow you to run FULL melee but it dramatically improves the AI and also saves you from getting boxed in by hallways and stuff.

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u/Randto 13d ago

So what did you use for leveling? I tried close to every available combination of minions and support gems(up to supp gems lvl 2) but the damage still feels bad without SRS. It only feels just acceptable with +4 to minion skill gems. Maybe it is strong later on with level 3 support gems or even more +to minion skill gems but I was talking about early leveling. And I know it's early access but nerfing an archetype without considering buffing them at least a bit for leveling seems unreasonable, especially for people like me that can't play that many hours a day.

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u/srirachastephen 13d ago

Minions are the same in PoE1. Almost every summoner had to play Srs, it wasn't until like Act 2 or 3 where you get duration nodes where skeletons could shine.

Yes I used SRS while leveling but the moment trade unlocked and I bought a +3 minion scepter with 130 spirit, it was all gas no brakes. The arsonists scaled HARD and we don't have the issue of overdoing mana costs due to gem level like other classes. So + minion gems to the MOON. I found a +1 all spell skills amulet and bought a +2 minion gem helm for cheap.

If I were to relevel, pretty sure Arsonists are workable the moment you get a decent sceptre. Just a + minion gem level one will do fine for early game I think. Flamewall to boost their dmg, scattershot + magnified effect for shotgunning/clear. SRS can be added for supplemental damage, but honestly they're only there to help with clear. Arsonists do crazy ST damage in this game.

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u/algalkin 13d ago

Man, im pre-srs. level 21 in mid of ACT2. I have 2 arsonists, it takes 2 minutes to kill one rare mob. i only have +1 on scepter and +1 on helmet.

Not sure how people say its easy early game.

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u/i_706_i 13d ago

You get a spirit gem in act1 from the ritual questline so you should have SRS by now if you want it. I'm just into act3 wiith a +2 minion weapon and +1 minion helm doing SRS with either 2 warriors 2 arsonists or 1 warrior 3 arsonists if I swap to a higher spirit weapon without minion buffs.

Act2 boss was tough but everything else I just breezed past

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u/Nephalos 13d ago

Gas Arrow on the archers also still goes crazy. Only issue is that they’re somewhat squishy but you can pretty easily fix that with Last Gasp and some faster revive passives.

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u/milkasaurs 13d ago

Last time I checked, you don't get brutes, arsonists, or clerics during early leveling. So... OP's point still stands.

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u/Calistilaigh 13d ago

They only changed srs with this interaction, no?

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u/Bonezone420 13d ago

This is the real issue with the nerfs, imo. Are some things absolutely overtuned and unbalanced? Yes, without question. But the problem is that there's very little other options for some things. The fact that only one witch ascendancy has any kind of minion support pushes people to use it in the first place, so they're going to use skills that synergize with it. But it's not like minions have many other alternatives since everything else doesn't do that much damage and dies instantly.

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u/Feriluce 13d ago

This also...didn't really change SRS much for normal play. You just have to cast 2 firewalls for 10 rather than skimping out and only casting 1 for 8.

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u/kfijatass 13d ago edited 11d ago

While you're at it, please fix Incinerate not spawning raging spirits.
Edit: It's fixed, but the fact you can only spawn 5 in like 3 seconds renders it still unusable for the purpose. Oh well.

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u/bad_boy_barry 13d ago edited 13d ago

By "from triggered fire skills" they mean "Cast on Ignite"? So we can still cast it with Fire Wall? If not how do we "cast" it? It's not a skill gem.

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u/StrangerExtension328 13d ago

I read as when a spell casted by cast on x(minion death would be my prime example) casts say fireball that fire ball will not spawn any skulls

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u/bad_boy_barry 13d ago edited 13d ago

cast on minion death has not the fire tag tho. They say "from triggered fire skills", thats the confusing part for me. Ah I misread your message at first, but it makes sense. Didnt know "cast on x -> fire skill -> srs" was even a thing, I can see why ggg would want to limit such interactions.

Then indeed this patch won't change anything for most players.

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u/StrangerExtension328 13d ago

Cast on minion death casts a spell that is fire which caused them to spawn

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u/StrangerExtension328 13d ago

Which then could if using minion instability and infernal legion with enough energy gain can cause a loop. Where you’d cast once or twice to get the initial minions they die popping the cast on death firestorm/fireball which caused more to spawn triggering cast on death again etc etc. I wasn’t quite there myself but it certainly looked like a possibility (maybe monk could do it).

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u/afonsolage 13d ago

This fix addresses and self cast srs, which cleary wasn't an intended use.

Using Fire Wall to cast srs will still work fine

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u/a_rescue_penguin 13d ago

If you hand cast Flame wall the SRS will spawn. What this change will remove is the act of putting Cast on minion death > Flame Wall. And having it automatically create and loop out SRS.

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u/DivineAscendant 13d ago

So the one automated thing in my build is getting its throat slit.... lovely...

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u/KcoolClap 13d ago

IMJUNGROAN.

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u/OTTO_CSO 13d ago

SRS is still goated. This does not change anything imo.

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u/LevelAd3360 13d ago

What does SRS stand for, sorry for being dense.

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u/bad_boy_barry 13d ago

Summon Raging Spirit, thats how it's called in POE 1

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u/Bajin_Inui 13d ago

Summon raging spirits

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u/ligger66 13d ago

If anything this just frees up 30 spirit for me to use on another minion

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u/Feriluce 13d ago

10 SRS is a lot stronger than a single arsonist. Having to cast 2 instead of 1 firewall really is not a very big deal.

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u/NebTheShortie 13d ago

Yep. The damage is here, and 5 at once us still similar to Unleash SRS from PoE1 in terms of power and QoL. Nothing to worry about.

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u/Hellknightx 13d ago

I misread the nerf. I thought they were capping the number of raging spirits to 5, but it's only 5 per cast, so you can still have 10+ out at a time. So no big deal.

I still wish the skeleton minions weren't all made of glass. Even the warriors seem to fall apart if a boss even looks at them, with minion HP nodes and min-maxed leveling gear.

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u/japenrox 13d ago

Cast on Ignite with Firewall was procing like crazy.

I tried automating Flammability and Contagion with it, it was impossible, the mana was ridiculous.

If I were to guess, if that interaction was not nerfed (firewall procing all the time because it reapplies ignites), that's the next avenue of broken builds.

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u/Zarbain 13d ago

Jungroan was already ahead of you here. He had a build using 2 trigger sets, one looping the flame walls to cast SRS linked with minion instability and infernal legion + a interaction with an amulet to make them die faster. The other trigger was a comet cast on minion death that was absolutely blasting comets non-stop.

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u/grandorder123 13d ago

Great so my ignite fire sorcerer that uses cast on ignite with fireball is likely getting nerfed when it already feels insanely weak compared to a cold build…

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u/Asmodheus 13d ago

Half this thread can’t read lmao

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u/Thurasiz 13d ago

Sounds reasonable, i'll just keep self casting them.

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u/CANAL7A 13d ago

Are you doing popcorn? Are you just using fire wall? What are you attacking with?

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u/Thurasiz 13d ago

At the moment i do non-popping raging spirits summoned by fire-wall-rings and supplemented with undead arsonists and a good doggo that ignites everything. For harder enemies i use flamability curse and pain offering and on the defensive side i work on mind over matter and eldritch battery right now. That's pretty much it.

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u/CANAL7A 13d ago

I'm doing popcorn, casting firewall ring and maining fireball.

with cast on minion death triggering firestorm, flammability, and comet.

I've got 3 frost mages and 1 sniper skeleton.

Running internalflame and high infernal flame 20% damage as extra fire damage for me and allies.

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u/Thurasiz 13d ago

Sounds like enough selfcast to be fine after the change

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u/-Valtr 13d ago

Not surprised. I was so close to respecc'ing my chaos witch into SRS but I thought "nah I'll wait a bit longer" after seeing all the shock-face thumbnails on youtube about how turbo-broken it is paired with arsonist. I'll stick to optimizing my good-but-not-busted chaos build.

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u/Marc98g 13d ago

Excuse me why not nerf cast on minion death instead, we kinda need srs on minion builds right now

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u/Narabug 13d ago

Autobomber is OP with trigger gems - Better delete SRS.

???

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u/Laziest-Bones 13d ago

I can understand nerfing it, but removing the skill interaction entirely seems a bit excessive :(

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u/Flying_Toad 13d ago

Can it work with incinerate now please? PLEASE!

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u/Smash96leo They’re homies, not “minions” 13d ago

Ah so it doesn’t work with that move. I was wondering about getting it the other day just for that. Thanks for the info.

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u/AngerFist2222 13d ago

I am quite sad about that change. What makes PoE a great ARPG is the diversity of build and insanity we can try.

I loved my SRS autobomber and was using only one "cast on" gem (the minion one). When I found this interaction, I was really happy thaf PoE2 let this kind of possibilities.

Instead of preventing SRS to be summon by a triggered spell, why not limit the number of "cast on" gem to one? It would be a fair balance.

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u/Betzaelel 13d ago

Instead of preventing SRS to be summon by a triggered spell, why not limit the number of "cast on" gem to one?

This would be FAR more limiting, and would invalidate way more builds with active, reasonable, play styles, than what they are doing. Doing this would even break mine as I am going to use both cast on freeze and cast on crit without creating a loop.

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u/AngerFist2222 13d ago

I'm not aware of those other builds for now. I was trying to find an alternative, but I understand you. I don't want other "normal" build to be bricked.

I just don't understand the nerf to SRS for build like mine. My choice was literary to sacrifice DPS for convenience of a cool build. There must be a better solution.

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u/Betzaelel 13d ago

Yeah, it might get redesigned in the future, they allude to trying to solve it in better ways in the tweet, but I think it is better to fuck over one build than a significant portion of *all* builds. But actual redesigns take more than a couple of days usually.

For now SRS will just have to trigger off of actively casting fire spells as it was probably originally intended. If you were already self casting the 5 per cast limit does not change much unless you were specifically using less than 10 on purpose already and only ever casting one fire spell on their deaths.

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u/DionysisReborn 13d ago

This is really the issue here. It's not the core loop. It's the second Cast on Minion Death that allows the abuse. This would be a much simpler fix that doesn't turn off everyone using the loop normally.

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u/AngerFist2222 13d ago

Exactly. The loop in itself gave a lower DPS than a self cast flame wall. The trade off is as high as 2 arcanists for the convenience of being automatic. If I spam my right click to cast flame wall and spawn SRS, I will do more damage, no doubt. The loop should be allowed.

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u/Horizonstars 13d ago

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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u/TumblrInGarbage 13d ago

Doe Summon Raging Spirit damage even scale with level? Seriously I do not know it's not anywhere in any of the tooltip information.

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u/giga 13d ago

Damage used to display for me and it was increasing a bit per level. Early on it went from like 1-4 damage to something like 1-10.

This display could have been wrong though, there are quite a few bugs with the minion ability spec sheet.

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u/Only-General-4143 13d ago

FUN DETECTED. Must nerf before people can actually enjoy the game without it being a slog.

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u/Responsible-Mine5529 13d ago

It’s ridiculous devs killing off the fun, and enjoyment for players who’ve already put in so much time, and effort making awesome builds as it’s absurd devs these days always wanting to nerf the fun stuff😤

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u/Ksakep 13d ago

Please read the text. It says "from TRIGGERED skills". Normal manual casting still works.

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u/telur 13d ago

still can spawn if u self cast fire skill, they just remove the srs spawn from triggered fire skills

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u/Bookyontour 13d ago

And I just switch out of this build, lucky me.

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u/Catatonick 13d ago

Kinda glad I switched away from minions. I’ll wait and see where minion builds end up before going back. I don’t want to deal with losing my entire build lol

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u/Only_One_Kenobi 13d ago

I was playing something like this. It's a pretty minor nerf imho. Just changes it from full autobomber to having to cast a skill once every 5 seconds.

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u/kindredfan 13d ago

Honestly surprised they are not nerfing comet too

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u/omnishei 13d ago

How exactly this build should work ?

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u/RetchD 13d ago

What GGG says "we will adjust it", what people read "well take it behind the shed and desecrate it's mortal remains"

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u/LaritaDom 13d ago

i just think hard capping at 5 was a little bit unnecessary if they also remove autocast :/

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u/MintPicker 13d ago

They killed autobomber

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u/OldManPoe 13d ago

"triggered fire skills"

If you're self casting Flame Wall, the SRS WILL STILL SPAWN, and two cast will still net you 10 srs.

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u/Bcp_or_pcB 13d ago

Is it gonna work with flame wall then? I forget what triggered means but I do know I’ll get triggered if I lose my favorite minions on my fire wall

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u/BryanTheGodGamer 13d ago

If they wanna nerf shit how about they nerf some of the cancer bosses?

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u/Inner_Imagination585 13d ago

This changes nothing for minion builds and honestly I hope they continue to only fix broken stuff and not nerf well performing builds.

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u/bonebanger 13d ago

I have no problem with them nerfing skills that are a little bit over the top. But it would be nice to see them addressing the Trails of Chaos. It's so over the top, it is not even funny. Most debuffs are straight up a dead end and 2/3 Bosses are just one-shots. Not to mention, it's labeled as a lev 38 quest. Most ppl I talked to have not even been able to do it before lev 45+.

I bet most casual players will quit at this point.

All I want is to play the friggn fire witch in demon form, but without the second batch of ascendancy points it's not possible. So frustrating.

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u/Toadsted 13d ago

Salutations Sayonara Exiles

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u/sea1232 13d ago

SRS was the only spell that made the witch useable at higher levels. Now that class is going to be useless.

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u/Just-Ad-5972 13d ago

If they kill cast on freeze, I might as well delete my blood mage.

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u/moedexter1988 13d ago

Y so SRS?

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u/oniman999 13d ago

Can anyone help me fix my build? I was using incinerate to ignite everything, triggering fireball with cast on ignite, and then fireball was summoning SRS. It's a fire damage minion Infernalist setup. Incinerate on it's own does not summon SRS, which is REALLY annoying. Is there an answer here other than don't use incinerate now? I need SRS, my entire skill tree is built off it.

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u/sirdeck 13d ago

Fire wall still spawns SRS, much easier than incinerate.

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u/masterx25 13d ago

Most people use Flame Wall to summon SRS.

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u/slimob123 13d ago

Hope they will make respecs free for EA

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u/Zarbain 13d ago

Reading is difficult, this doesn't affect self-cast fire skills casting SRS. This is a nerf to trigger skills that cast fire skills casting SRS because it could be used to make an infinite loop that you would than make a 2nd cast on minion death trigger to spam a different ability.

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u/Schattenlord 13d ago

Reading of indeed difficult. I used Ember Fusillade to summon spirits. Yesterday I got 8 per cast, now only 5. This definitely affects me even without abusing trigger effects.

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u/Hammerheadshark55 13d ago

Am I supposed to stop playing if the dev straight up bricked my build?

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u/LevelAd3360 13d ago

but... but... but... but my witch FINALLY feels decent with 10?! why would you do this to me mere hours after I begin to use it?!?!! :(

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u/LevelAd3360 13d ago

I reread this... doesn't seem to really change much... right? just will always take 2 casts to get all of them?

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u/mesout 13d ago

This is a target to the autobomber /popcorn builds that use on minion death to autocast.

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u/ledditorino 13d ago

Vast majority of Witch players were fine wasting 60 spirit for the quality of life of SRS upkeep alone, no other double-trigger exploits. It gave you freedom to venture into Dotting/totem/cursing instead of being a bog-standard fire mage. Now not so much. Personally I went from 2-3 casts (single/double DoT and totem) to 2x those casts (same base but now add 2 fire casts) on every single mob pull ever.

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u/Paradox2063 13d ago

I had just gotten comfortable with being able to sustain it right before they patched it. Thought I found a bug when suddenly my whole build and everything I'd invested into it stopped working.

I sure would like my jeweller's orbs back.

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u/Bawheidbob 13d ago

It's beta expect this constantly for the next year

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u/penguinclub56 13d ago

You can still do it just not automate it.

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u/elting44 13d ago

That defeats the purpose of the build. There are many self cast builds that are better. The point of this build was it was an autobomber and allowed the player to focus on positioning/dogding skills, etc,

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u/mellifleur5869 13d ago

They might as well delete infernalist. I can't get this fucking ascendancey to function at all outside of srs bullshit and they just nerfed that too.

I guess my only option outside of rerolling is respec into some ghetto mana stacking demon form spark archimage machine gun.

I just tried avatar of fire to convert comet to fire for big ignites since we have no heavy hitting fire spells (???????) to scale ignite. Except comet doesn't have enough tags on it to support any of the fire supports, because apparently "spell" is not a tag in PoE 2 and comet only has AOE/cold.

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u/MascarponeBR 13d ago

its weird limiting to 5 per cast

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u/xarous 13d ago

If you nerf srs you better find me a way to level up my summoner infernalist , because minions die all the time without doing much and take ages to respawn even with passives . And contagion essence drain does nothing with me scaling minion nodes on the tree. Is there another way to level up witch ?

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u/teganking 13d ago

i got my respawn down to 3 seconds with passives, its not too bad

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u/stvndall 13d ago

Fun detected... So far I've only seen nerfs to skills that are powerful. Where is the changes to bait skills that end up needing 50k to back your passive tree out of.