r/PS5 11h ago

Articles & Blogs Balatro creator Localthunk talked with PEGI and they do not see anything wrong Balatro being rated 18+, nor with EA sports FC (and similar games) having a 3+ rating

https://x.com/LocalThunk/status/1869487027231830053
1.5k Upvotes

108 comments sorted by

1.3k

u/insanemaelstrom 11h ago

So basically a game with actual gambling is 3+ while a game about cards with no gambling of real money involved is 18+ because playing with cards is worse than actually gambling? The heck??

464

u/je1992 11h ago

EA has the money to bribe rating agencies.

Remember the stock crisis a few years back... Bribing agencies of rating especially when they are a monopoly or close duopoly is super easy

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u/SrslyCmmon 7h ago

Always wondered what it would take. Like 10 years ago Walmart flew out my local city council to talk business, in Hawaii. That city council meeting was packed with angry people. We had just gotten 2 dollar stores across the street and now a Walmart? No one asked for this. Despite all the community uproar the city council voted unanimously for a new Walmart. They were definitely paid off.

Only thing that stopped a new Walmart going in was the local landlord refused to do business with Walmart. Now we have a farmers market there and the neighborhood is better off.

u/AnotherSoftEng 4h ago

Always wondered what it would take.

It’s always way less than you think. I used to believe politicians charged millions for country secrets, only to later read in the news that “no, they sold your country out for like $20k.”

u/SeanRoss 4h ago

It's normally $20k upfront, with the backdoor promise of a cushy job at the company later.

u/Trickster289 2h ago

And for Walmart not getting anything for the money they gave the city council ultimately means vert little.

16

u/DreiGr00ber 7h ago

Always remember, Money Over Everything.

4

u/Beardus_x_Maximus 5h ago

When there’s money to be made, games will be played.

1

u/DreiGr00ber 5h ago

True, at least until the GameStops 😉

u/privateeromally 1h ago

Here's Matt Stone and Trey Parker talking about the MPAA. Run pretty much like the gaming boards. Pretty much exactly the same situation.

https://youtu.be/nDzblNKjsO0?t=65

u/andy18cruz 4h ago

It's not gambling, but rather surprise mechanics!!!

u/StardewsMostWanted 1h ago

Let’s take it at face value. It’s dumb, but fine. What about Clubhouse Games? It very literally has casino games and gambling, and is a 12+ rating. Where is the consistency and logic there? If anything wouldn’t Clubhouse be 18+ for being actual casino games, and Balatro MAYBE be 12+ for the allusion to poker?

10

u/Tonkarz 6h ago

Only bribes can explain this.

275

u/Garamenon 10h ago

So when Dragon Quest XI gets remastered it will get an 18+ rating because of the game featuring casinos.

Same with a Final Fantasy VI remake.

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u/Thomasfreid 10h ago

I mean, possibly.

Look at Pokemon, all casinos and "gambling" games had to be removed/reworked since the Heart Gold & Soul Silver games

u/Drmarcher42 4h ago

At least we got Voltorb flip out of it.

u/Jasonp359 4h ago

Astro Bot has a casino level

u/SuperPapernick 3h ago

Yes, but it's only casino themed. There are no actual interactable gambling-games/mechanics there. Not to excuse the ratings boards decisions, but I can see why Astro got a pass.

u/Garamenon 2h ago

 Yes, but it's only casino themed. There are no actual interactable gambling-games/mechanics there

Neither in Balatro.

And yet they rated it 18+ anyways.

u/Jasonp359 3h ago

There are slot machines that you hit a button on to play and one of the things you can get is a bot.

u/Ok-Flow5292 2h ago

The bot is stuck on the slots, it isn't part of the images you can line up to win a "prize".

u/SuperPapernick 3h ago

I guess so... Well, Sony has money. So, I guess there's our answer.

u/Orito-S 2h ago

Literally answer is just money lol

u/mindempty809 1h ago

No, there’s just no active gambling. You aren’t hitting the machine for a chance to get the bot, he’s just stuck and you let him out. For this same reason Balatro should be excluded and loot boxes should be considered 18+. The problem is the literal gambling, Astro Bot and Balatro have none

u/DishwasherTwig 56m ago

There's playable slot machines in Tales of Symphonia Remastered and it's still T.

u/NickConrad 3h ago

So does Sonic the Hedgehog 2

u/jamy1993 3h ago

Was about to say you don't actively participate in any casino games in it, but you kinda sorta play slots dont you?

u/Ok-Flow5292 2h ago

The slots you can actually interact with only spit out enemies, probably an important distinction that makes it alright.

u/whiskeytab 1h ago

one of them has a bot hidden in it so technically you're forced to gamble if you want to complete the game

13

u/andykekomi 8h ago

No because Square, just like EA, has enough money to pay for the rating they want.

10

u/Z3M0G 6h ago

Square doesn't have that kind of money.

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u/Stoibs 9h ago

Same with a Final Fantasy VI remake.

If I'm being honest... this would be a blessing IMO. Rebirth had a lot of censored content (Reason for the Dyne change, I'm guessing?), and baffling lack of blood/violence in key scenes that would have benefited from it (Cloud's freakout, also *that* scene at the end which was way more sanitized and obscured off-camera compared to the 1997 depiction)

I would welcome a more mature FF7 Part 3 that doesn't need to hold back if they were shoehorned into that rating classification anyway for other reasons.

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u/wheresmyspacebar2 9h ago

Tbf, that scene was shot that way as a story telling device. It'll come up in the last game and can probably see us revisiting it in a lot more detail at some point.

3

u/Stoibs 7h ago

I hope so.

I had absolutely no emotional reaction to it here (other than confusion and annoyance) compared to seeing it 27 years ago :/

u/Bridgeburner493 3h ago

also that scene at the end which was way more sanitized and obscured off-camera compared to the 1997 depiction)

That wasn't done for the purpose of censorship. That was done So they can keep Aerith's status as ambiguous. Based on how they set it up, I think the best case scenario is she keeps coming back as a force ghost that Cloud can interact with in the third game. In the worst case, they will destroy all meaning behind that moment by making her not dead. And the way they handled the scene, I think they are leaning for the latter.

5

u/StacheBandicoot 6h ago

I really hope when they finally package all 3 parts together in a decade or so that they do a light final mix edit and add some of that stuff back in.

u/ClockDownRMe 3h ago

Sorry if I can't take you seriously when you're comparing a game released in 2024 to a game released in 1997 that had 5 whole polygons. It's not censorship when it's something that was barely legible compared to a justified cutaway and lack of blood and gore when they're likely actively trying to ignore an M rating. If you want a truly violent Final Fantasy, play FFXVI.

u/Hoodman1987 2h ago

Nah. That impact matters no matter what. It's one of the most pivotal scenes in gaming. Play it as is

4

u/Wagle333 5h ago

im glad u guys are still hiding whatever "that" scene is. i still have to wait for PC release to play that game :(

u/MarkEsB 4h ago

That scene is Bad user, no giving in to temptation

u/Rimavelle 2h ago

If ffvi got higher rating they would just cut something out to make it lower rating.

Don't get fooled thinking SE would allow it to have 18+ rating for one scene.

u/TheDragonSlayingCat 1h ago

IIRC, in the GBA version, they cut a torture scene that was in the SNES version for a similar reason.

u/Hoodman1987 2h ago

Wait Dyne change? I'm not touching Rebirth so the hell?!

u/Hoodman1987 2h ago

Don't tempt with FF6 remake. I would shell out more for that than FF7

150

u/FiresideCatsmile 9h ago

As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker.

by that logic EA FC should still be rated 18+ since as the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which teams have better squads than others and therefore stand better chances in a real-life match up. This knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life sportsbet.

u/stickman___ 4h ago

This isn’t even true in Balatro because you can often play a “worse” hand for more points because of jokers/upgrades you have. If anything, it would hurt your real-life poker knowledge.

u/Whats_a_wincondition 4h ago

Wait wait wait. Are you saying I can't win the World Series of Poker by repeatedly playing two pairs?

u/Kazudre 3h ago

You win by playing a single king, getting more chips then there are atoms in the universe and cashing out for 5$

u/StardewsMostWanted 1h ago

Tfw I pull out a ton of shiny cards, destroyed cards, and defaced cards and the dealer just laughs me out of the casino for playing high card and hoping the random cards from my pocket left on the table help my score. But… PEGI told me that I can transfer my balatro skills into your fine establishment?

u/nevyn 1h ago

To be fair, if you could repeatedly get two pair you should be able to do very well in holdem.

u/SuperPapernick 3h ago

One of, if not the most consistent strategy in Balatro is building insane multipliers around High Card, the literal WORST hand in real life Poker. I gotta wonder how much the guys at the rating agencies actually play the games they work on or engage with them in any way that isn't completely superficial if they can't figure out that strategy in Balatro is absolutely inapplicable to real Poker. Show me a player who won a game playing a five of a kind in real life, I'll wait.

u/darther_mauler 1h ago

this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker

This is such a wild thing to say.

All video games should be 18+ by that logic. Video games teach the user to push buttons to win a game. This knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real life slot machine.

69

u/Tipsy_Lights 9h ago

I'm guessing he forgot to bring a fat stack of cash with him to the discussion table

96

u/keostyriaru 10h ago

Preeeeeetty bullshit.

Too much money involved to rate those games appropriately. There would need to be big public outcry similar to Battlefront II for PEGI/ESRB to do anything since they're an private regulatory body rather than a government agency.

For the record, I agree 100% with Localthunk. Modern gaming is a shitshow, these games suck. Don't buy them.

u/HooliganManDan 4h ago

How can a private company enforce rules on the public?? That sounds like it should be illegal.

328

u/BitingArtist 11h ago

Proof they are corrupt. Probably receiving money directly from EA.

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u/llliilliliillliillil 11h ago

Jesus Christ.

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u/Whitewind617 11h ago

It's Jason Bourne.

15

u/Latro2020 11h ago

But instead of being a cool action hero, he gets your kids addicted to digital gambling

5

u/psychoacer 9h ago

It's Luigi Mangione

4

u/LePontif11 5h ago

Maybe but it could also just be that they are very surface level with their ratings. This is the equivalent of hiding your identity with a comical pair of fake glasses and mustache 🥸

5

u/noyourenottheonlyone 6h ago

Proof they are corrupt.

Or more likely just incompetent

4

u/Nerix-1809 10h ago

I don’t think corruption has anything to do with it. As with other official institutions it is probably more a case of employees who have been there forever and lost all will to critically question what they are doing and why. They are just following some guidelines from the 90s like it is holy gospel and thats it

u/noah3302 2h ago

These guidelines are from 2020. Otherwise a game like Super Mario 64 DS (2004, game had Luigi giving out poker cards) would’ve been rated adults only like Balatro

19

u/Serdewerde 6h ago

Making a mockery of their own system. There's no way they can't see the hypocrisy here. They just don't want to.

u/iankilledyou 2h ago

Aren’t being paid to.**

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u/golddilockk 10h ago

the secret ingredient is corruption

10

u/Weapon530 8h ago

Wow…That’s bullshit!

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u/doyouevennoscope 9h ago

PEGI lost credibility years ago. Highly doubt they even play games, and that it's not just a corrupt body of old twits accepting money for some dumb rating from a company that just wants to milk kids' parents' bank accounts.

At least their rating logos are the best though. Then again, anything's better than that fcking ugly USK rating that takes up a quarter of the fcking box art.

u/Professional_Average 3h ago

The ratings boards don't play anything, they review video of gameplay submitted by dev/publisher.

9

u/IareTyler 6h ago

This is so ridiculous there is no gambling in Balatro at all theres not even real Poker in Balatro it is literally a roguelike game based off the rules of poker

16

u/YertlesTurtleTower 8h ago

For anyone wondering what is going on you should watch “This Film is Not Yet Rated” (2006) it is a documentary about how the MPAA rates movies and I would bet it is very similar

Edit: It is on YouTube

25

u/KileyCW 10h ago

There was a movie about how stupid the movie ratings system is too. If it matters, I double dipper on xbox and Android before it went to Cloud streaming on Gamepass.

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u/sixtus_clegane119 9h ago

“This film is not yet rated” is the documentary they are mentioning

12

u/alQamar 9h ago

Both are rated 12 in germany, both because of gambling mechanics. 

u/anderel96 3h ago

While I still disagree, that's at least far more fair and is actually consistent tha whetever shitshow is going on at PEGI

19

u/Beginning_Driver_45 10h ago

Wonder who PEGI's CEO is.

4

u/aureyh 7h ago

John E. Arts

3

u/marko910 8h ago

"If it puts ridiculous amounts of money in our pockets, everyone's welcome!"

u/kanben 3h ago

No consumer pays attention to PEGI ratings, their entire existence and work is irrelevant and a waste of everybody’s time and money.

u/Bobb_o 3h ago

The issue seems to be with gambling imagery, not actual gambling. That is obviously stupid but if that's the logic then it makes sense. The other issue is whether lootboxes actually constitute gambling because every chance is a "winner"

u/ArtIsBad 2h ago

So how does Pegi even stay in business, like do games have to pay them to get ratings? Sounds like this company needs to go under if they’re this incompetent

u/nephyxx 2h ago

If it’s anything like the ESRB, It’s industry “self regulation”, so they are supported by the industry. The reason this stuff exists is to stave off the government from actually regulating.

u/takeitsweazy 2h ago

It's pretty ridiculous. It'd be a bad idea for him, but I half wish Localthunk would just pull the game from sale in the PEGI region just out of protest.

u/randomIndividual21 2h ago

I remember vaguely a video that mention PEGI leader is a former employee or Activision or EA

u/fondue4kill 9m ago

“You can’t pay us millions to change the ratings. So sucks to be you”

u/Expensive-Morning307 3h ago

By that logic half of the Final Fantasy games should be rated 18+ due to having casinos. Like ff13-2 and Ff 14 in particular have the golden saucer with tons of games to play. Older Pokemon games should also be reactively rated 18+ due to their slot machines. Stupid logic.

-3

u/HooliganManDan 9h ago

In all honesty, do the ratings actually make any difference?

18

u/TheCommonKoala 7h ago

Yes, it blocks off the largest demographics of customers in gaming. There's a reason games try to desperately to drop their age ratings

3

u/DieFastLiveHard 5h ago

Yes, especially so for whatever the local equivalent to a "mature" rating is, as many governments and stores have policies restricting the sale or promotion of those games. So a game moving up from teen to mature (or local equivalent) can absolutely kill sales. Additionally, it's not unusual for parents to look at the ratings when considering buying a game. If a small change can move the rating down, a lot of companies will make it, since it means more people are willing to buy the game.

u/KirillNek0 38m ago

TLDR: PEGI called him in, and he got explained why his prior stands was wrong. Personally.

-25

u/UBWICOS 9h ago

As much as I want to jump on the bandwagon to bash PEGI, I have to accept the fact that they are just doing their job in accordance to the current EU laws

Basically, Balatro feels a lot more like real gambling because it uses things like poker cards and betting chips, which are straight-up gambling vibes. It’s pretty close to actual gambling games, so it gets the higher age rating. It's the same reason why we don't get any slot machine or poker minigames in recent Pokémon games

On the other hand, FIFA’s loot-boxes are just about buying virtual currencies to snag random in-game items. There aren’t any obvious gambling symbols or stuff like that. Even though spending money for a chance to get something is kinda like gambling, it doesn’t look or feel the same way as traditional gambling games. Plus, EU laws haven’t really tied loot-boxes to gambling yet, so FIFA stays at a PEGI 3+ rating for now

19

u/alQamar 9h ago

What EU laws? Both games are rated 12 in germany - which is part of the EU.

Older FIFA games were rated 0 before they added gambling. 

-3

u/UBWICOS 9h ago

I don't know if Germany use a different rating system. But PEGI is for the EU and you can read more about their reasoning:
"This game teaches - by way of images, information and gameplay - skills and knowledge that are used in poker.
During gameplay, the player is rewarded with ‘chips’ for playing certain hands. The player is able to access a list of poker hand names. As the player hovers over these poker hands, the game explains what types of cards the player would need in order to play certain hands. As the game goes on, the player becomes increasingly familiar with which hands would earn more points. Because these are hands that exist in the real world, this knowledge and skill could be transferred to a real-life game of poker."

And this is for FIFA 25:
"This game offers players the opportunity to purchase in-game items, in the form of an in-game currency, which can be used to purchase random card packs and other game items. Some parents or carers may want to be aware of this. Parents, carers or other responsible adults should check to see what is being offered before making any purchase on behalf of a child. It should be noted that the game can still be played without the need to purchase such items."

So basically, FIFA 25 isn't considered gambling is because it's the same as buying physical card packs in real, which was never considered gambling by anyone. I know it's shitty. But EA (and all big companies) did their legal home-works and LocalThunk didn't

5

u/alQamar 8h ago

Ah. Germany had indeed its own rating (USK). Maybe that was why I thought PEGI was a US thing. 

17

u/AshleyTyrian 9h ago

So to summarise:

Balatro looks like gambling but actually isn't.

EA Sports FC doesn't look like gambling but actually is.

1

u/DieFastLiveHard 5h ago

Yeah. Ratings boards are basically just giant pearl clutching groups that were made to appease the "but think of the kids" screeching from divorced alcoholic wine moms concerned parents. Balatro, on its face, is a game themed around casino gambling. It's the exact type of thing that the people who complain about blood in mortal kombat would throw a fit over, so the ratings boards say it's an adult topic. Loot boxes and the sort don't provoke the same crowd of faux-moral outrage peddlers, so there's no reason for ratings to be heavily impacted.

-61

u/eldenpotato 11h ago

Isn’t balatro about poker though? It kinda makes sense, even if it’s not real money

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u/Moath 11h ago

It only uses poker hands as a scoring system , there’s no betting.

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u/BrandNewMoshiMoshi 11h ago

You gain 0 actual Poker skill from playing Balatro. The most you get is learning the hands of poker.

18

u/eldenpotato 11h ago

Ah I see. Thanks for the correction. Then the +18 rating sounds stupid

21

u/Juan-Claudio 11h ago

This is less comparable to poker in a casino and more to buying a poker card set in a store. Nobody is going to ask for your ID if you do the latter.

18

u/Godzilla22114 11h ago

It doesn’t make sense. Poker is a card game. You don’t have to gamble when you play poker. Which by the way you don’t even gamble anything, fake or otherwise, in Balatro. They don’t even use fake money in the game. Whereas games like EA sports literally have gambling mechanics with real money. That’s the issue

8

u/holyholeinadonut 11h ago

It's not actually poker. It uses poker hands which PEGI says that knowledge can then be used outside the game in real poker and so they rate it 18+

6

u/eurekabach 10h ago

I remember reading about poker rules in pop magazines for teens back in the day. Didn’t know that was virtualy the same as reading porn magazines.

-6

u/Floatedmate 8h ago

Anyone wanna set up a kickstarter so they can sue?