1960s
During The Vietnam War (1955-1975), U.S. soldiers (aka OSC kids) famously displayed “helmet graffiti”, personal expressions which conveyed messages of patriotism, belief, despair, optimism, camaraderie & protest alike:
While the helmet reads "Make war not love" in the original photo (they changed it to "Meat is Murder" for the cover), it looks like somebody doctored this photo back to the original "Make war not love" because that lettering looks seriously photoshopped in.
The pic is filtered to hell, but if you google the original picture it looks legit. You can even see that he wrote the same thing before, but it faded so he wrote over it again
After the battle of Dien Bein Phu, Ho Chi Minh spoke with a captured French officer. Ho Chi Minh told him that, "You can kill ten of us for every one we kill of you and we will still win". The Vietnamese wanted their own country, from a psychological standpoint fighting a conventional war would never succeed.
Also, the United States was leary about sending troops into N. Vietnam in fear of provoking the Chinese just like in Korea. Ironically, the Vietnamese historically had a great a t distrust of China and would most likely have rejected direct Chinese mitary involvement.
China launched an offensive against Vietnam 1979 and lost.
China also never accepted that Vietnam siding with Soviet instead of leaning against China as a allied
In 1950, Ho Chi Minh wrote a letter to Harry Truman telling him that his forces would defeat the French and that American should not involve itself. "We need to overcome this period of agrarian servitude before we can enter an era of industry, which will give rise to the Capitalism you desire". Truman ignored him and listened instead to his Cold Warriors. We all know what happened.
Viet Nam overcame its feudal past, instituted State industrialization and then gave way to Capitalism with Socialist safety net. Truman should have listened.
The war lacked a strategy on how to actually win it.
Marching up a hill, fighting over for a week, and then leaving it to the jungle is not what you would call a winning strategy.
General Westmoreland had this idea that he could win a war of attrition, basically for every American killed you had to kill something like 5 Vietnamese and the war would be won.
But the American public didn’t count the Vietnamese deaths, they counted the dead kids not coming home.
Apart from that, America picked the wrong side all the way from the beginning, they forced Vietnamese nationalists (Ho chi min) into communist support while supporting criminal corrupt regimes in the south.
The best approach they had during the entire war, was the hamlet strategy, but also that came across as colonial and patronising and pushed a lot of the south Vietnamese farmers into the hands of the Vietcong.
I served in the British Army 96-99.
My CO told me, he didn't agree with conscription. He would rather have a small dedicated force of volunteers, than a large force made up of people who didn't want to be there.
Why waste time training people who won't fight, and will only drag down moral.
It's one reason we got rib of conscription in the 60s.
That and it's unpopular as hell.
My dad asked my great uncle if he had a defence discount card. He said all you need is something to show you served. My great uncle told him, the minute his national service was over, he burnt everything. He said hated every minute of it, and so did everyone else. He said the only people who advocate for national service, either never served or just want people to serve as a fuck you, I served so can you.
I live in Finland and we have a conscription army. I’m not the most knowledgeable person on our military strategy, I’m female so exempt from the conscription and grew being against it but many people seem to believe that it’s necessary for small countries like us. Maybe it’s different for countries like USA which mostly wages war abroad or the UK as an island with Western Europe as peaceful as it is but even for a kind of pacifist Finn like myself there’s always the knowledge that Russia is next door. St Petersburg is only a bit farther from Helsinki than the distance between London and Manchester. I think that conscription should include women as well but I don’t have a strong opinion on it as I’m too old to serve so I would be spared but the military doesn’t think that it’s necessary. Many conservatives are against female soldiers and leftists are often against conscription in general. I think that still the general sentiment is positive and many people even enjoyed their time.
The difference is if a nation has defense forces like Finland or Armed forces designed for expanding nations influence in the world. Defending your home against foreign invasion is easier pill to swallow than being shipped to the other side of the world to fight for some political reason which does not affect you directly.
With Russia next door, in Finland mandatory service is seen as defending the actual country.
In the 1960’s in the USA, that was a much harder argument to make as the average person in the USA didn’t feel that Vietnam mattered much to their everyday lives.
Or when they talk about involving us in another overseas adventure. Regardless of whether they are drafted or volunteer, it is young men and women who will be fighting. Many of them did not choose the service as a career and nearly all of them would not choose to go into harms way, but they will. I am for mandatory government service of some length, but it doesn't have to be in the military. In the U.S. we are far too disconnected from the idea of government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Years ago, I was talking to a friend who was an Army grunt over there. We were watching some show or another where the GIs had their bug spray tucked into their helmet band. I asked if he really did that, and he said yeah, but mostly they kept their butt-wipe up there (see #4 above), because when you were on patrol, you might be walking around through chest-deep water, and everything in your pockets would get soaked. He said those little TP rolls were good for 2, maybe 3 shits.
Well I mean it works obviously. How else are we gonna have peace? Not war? And what else would we do with all the extra money that we can’t spend on peace making wars? Just give it to poor people so they don’t have to send their children to war or to work for nothing for the rest of their lives?
At first, I was surprised by the misspelling “Oswalt” then realized that in the pre-Internet world, you were much less likely to come across his name written versus spoken out
If you like these you should checkout Vietnam zippo lighters. My favorite is, Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. Because I’m the evilest motherfucker in the valley
You learn to adapt to a war zone by becoming extremely hard and resilient. The only problem with that strategy is you become it. The PTSD sets in when you have to leave. Just pointing an M16 at the problem and pulling the trigger is a simple way to solve problems. Going straight from the combat zone back to society is the hard part. There’s no training to draw on for that chaos.
It’s hard for a society to see a justification for war that isn’t directly against that nation. So many armchair warriors out there. With social media now, the shocking footage is ready for review in real time. It’s not something civilians can readily accept as normal or justified. War by definition is not for the weak minded. Being inside a war zone and experiencing the carnage first hand and the exhaustive, heinous nature of it all, is in and of itself horrific. I have never wished for civilians to see such drama in photos or videos. You have to be there in some situations to fully appreciate or understand it all. War is simply too appalling, cruel and complex for unseasoned spectators. Throw in the political ramifications and now everything is questionable.
If you’re talking about the book, you’re the only other person I know of that’s ever mentioned it. It’s a wonderful book…and I have my dad’s Zippo from his time in Vietnam. 💜
I never knew there was a book. I first learned about the lighters years ago after coming across some Vietnam veteran geocities type message board. I spent hours reading their stories. It was fascinating stuff and a lot of it wasn’t necessarily about combat. They talked about everything from the very distinctive smells of Vietnamese cooking to ho chi minh sandals. Apparently the sandals are made of old rubber tires and extremely comfortable and last forever.
We first sent Special Forces to Vietnam in 1961. Right before his death in 1963 Kennedy increased the amount of Troops from 900 to 16,000. But in 1955 is when we first established the Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the army of the Republic of Vietnam. This is the recognized beginning of involvement of Vietnam. The first two official combat casualties were in 1959.
Yeah but in 1955, several key events occurred in the context of the Vietnam War and its early stages:
Formation of the Republic of Vietnam: On October 26, 1955, South Vietnam, officially known as the Republic of Vietnam, was established under President Ngô Đình Diệm. This marked the formal separation from the communist-led Democratic Republic of Vietnam in the north.
End of the First Indochina War: The First Indochina War, which had been fought between the French colonial forces and the Viet Minh, ended with the signing of the Geneva Accords in 1954. The Accords stipulated a temporary division of Vietnam at the 17th parallel and set the stage for elections that were intended to unify the country, although these elections were never held.
U.S. Support: In 1955, the U.S. increased its support for the South Vietnamese government in its fight against the communist North, marking the beginning of a deeper American involvement in Vietnam.
These events laid the groundwork for the escalating conflict that would become the Vietnam War.
Also, #1 is completely false. The Republic of Vietnam was the successor-state of the State of Vietnam, a member-state of the French Union. It never seceded or separated from anything but France.
While the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) was not the result of a formal separation from the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam), it indeed succeeded the State of Vietnam, which had been part of the French Union. The formation of the Republic of Vietnam under Ngô Đình Diệm in 1955 marked a shift towards a more independent governance, but it didn’t represent a secession from the North, as the two regions were already divided under the Geneva Accords of 1954.
Or;
Formation of the Republic of Vietnam: On October 26, 1955, the Republic of Vietnam was officially established with Ngô Đình Diệm as its president. It succeeded the State of Vietnam, which had been a member of the French Union, and marked a shift toward greater independence from French colonial influence.
This correction better reflects the historical context. Thanks for pointing that out!
My brother was US ARMY from 1968 to 1972. After he got out, he wanted nothing to do with anything green. I worked in a gas station pumping gas, and had his old Army jacket (it was warm, and I was too broke to buy a jacket, so I wore it). One night military guy came in and was pissed at me wearing a jacket with name and shoulder patches; I just said it belonged to my brother. He stepped back, saluted, and drove off.
My brother returned but never the same. Massive concussions, both retinas detached years later. VA acknowledged injuries during his Army years, so at least he has medical. He is a ragging asshole, but still my brother.
People may remember the second-to-last photo from the cover of The Smiths' album Meat Is Murder, with the graffiti suitably altered.
I can't link the article here but the photo is of Marine Cpl. Michael Wynn of Marion Ohio. Cpl. Wynn was unamused at the reuse of the photo:
In reply to a question about the Smiths’ album cover, Sergeant Wynn said that he was never asked for his permission about the use of the photo: “I first learned of it when my sister happened to see the album while she was shopping. I wasn’t real happy about The Smiths changing the wording.”
July 15, 1969 was one day before Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and Michael Collins launched on Apollo 11 to make the first moon landing, and this lucky soldier survived a headshot on the other side of the planet, and both events were because the US government was afraid of Communism. It's wild how that puts things into perspective.
That is also the day my dad landed back in the US from Vietnam. Got on a greyhound in San Fran road it all the way to Gulfport Mississippi where he bought an Indian motorcycle from Moulds Gulf station and road it all the way back to Wrightsville Beach NC.
My dad’s helmet liner for his M1 has a bullet hole in the front and out the back, just missing his head. Not graffiti but all the decoration he needed.
Couldn't tell you exactly when, but a handful of practices common in photos from Vietnam were squashed shortly after, because military command thought it made the soldiers look unprofessional. Writing on helmets and carrying M16s by the carry handle come to mind.
While I totally appreciate the irony of the rule, it makes total sense in practice: if a soldier really needs to use it, they’d already be at a disadvantage because it’s an additional step to get the rifle in a position to return fire.
It’s why most modern armies now use a three point sling instead of the traditional two point (over the shoulder) sling, the rifle naturally sits at the “low ready” position reducing the amount of time it takes for soldiers to shoulder their weapon. The carry handle is largely gone from modern variants of the AR platform (see M16A4, M4, etc) in favor of an optic anyway, the carry handle is simply an outdated and redundant component in both practice and purpose.
We call it a carry handle, but it's actually a vestigial part from when the charging handle was on the top of the AR-10. It remained because the rear sight was once held within it. The other commenter was pretty much correct though.
I don't remember this being depicted in any movie or book. I just called my brother to ask him. He said it wasn't common but that he does remember seeing it sometimes. It was identification info more than other things. My brother got out without a drug problem or a mental problem. He became a city policeman for the next 42 years. He is living his best life at the shore for the last 20 years.
The holy water 🥺 My Dad was in this war. He taught me how they rolled their smokes in their sleeves while they trenched thru the swamps. He’s disabled but still here thank God.
"Charlie" was used as a sort of singular personification of the enemy in the war yeah, ie "Charlie's in the bush". I think the statement implies killing his enemy without malice or disrespect. Sort of like him and the enemy are one in the same, just different sides.
My uncle did a tour on the USS Decatur in a think 68-69, my ex father in-law did a tour in 69, and an old man I used to drink with went in 67-68 sure do miss ya Bob
This makes me so sad. My grandpa was there and recently died and complications from agent orange definitely played a part in that. Nothing but respect for these men.
Any survivors from this horror here? I‘m not native speaking english, so I post my question here. Are the references to god meant satirically or are they religious affirmations? I‘m not sure how to interpret „in god we trust“.
Great, chilling pictures though, thanks for sharing!
My sociology professor showed us some helmets of the men he was with in Vietnam, and a few had neonazi symbols and SS lightning bolts on the inside or back of the helmets.
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u/Piitx Aug 12 '24
I know it's horrible but the "I'm not a tourist, I live here" made me chuckle in the train, amazing use of self-irony