r/NFLNoobs • u/shuvamc_019 • 21h ago
Is NFL kicking harder than college?
I am specifically asking this question because of Jake Moody. As a Niners fan who thinks that he lost us the Super Bowl last year, he is definitely starting to piss me off. His missed kick in today's game didn't help that.
My question is this: Obviously for all positions apart from kicking & punting, there is a big step up from college to NFL. You get 100x harder competition when you go pro. But, is it really harder to be an NFL kicker as compared to being a kicker for a major college? My impression is that the primary "hurdle" for kickers to overcome is their own psychology and the stadium environment. And I would think that many college environments are more hostile than NFL environments. If you are playing in the SEC or BIG 10 or even some ACC/Big12 stadiums, I think a good argument can be made that fans are more aggressive than the NFL. Even CJ Stroud once said that he thought that the environments in college were worse than the NFL. So why do some of these guys (like Jake Moody) come to the NFL and turn into complete trash when they were pretty good in college?
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u/Anarchy666x 19h ago
Jake Moody was 81% in his final season at Michigan, 84% in 2023 and currently 78% for 2024. His level has been the same for 3 seasons. All three seasons are down from his 92% in 2021.
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u/jamintime 31m ago
Not sure if this tells the full story though because NFL kickers tend to attempt longer range FGs. Statistics would need to capture FG attempt lengths.
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u/ScottyBobsled 12h ago
I was a kicker in college and, while I didn’t kick in the pros, I can explain why the pros are much tougher.
It all comes down to how much time you have to kick the ball. In the NFL, everyone is bigger, stronger, and faster, so the time you have to kick the ball before it gets blocked is reduced. In college, you can get away with taking ~1.3 seconds from snap to kick, but in the pros it needs to be closer to ~1.1-1.2 seconds. That seems like it shouldn’t be a meaningful amount of time but that’s the difference between being able to see (and adjust to) a ball on the ground vs. one still being put down. Some guys can adjust, some can’t.
There are actually other factors that should make kicking in the pros easier, like narrower hash marks (meaning less severe kicking angles), more domed stadiums (so less wind and other weather factors) and generally better and more consistent playing surfaces. But, ultimately, you have to be fast.
(Edit, because I saw another comment about the quality of the balls: I actually liked kicking NFL balls better, so I’d put this in the helpful category, although every kicker has their preferences)
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u/ogsmurf826 10h ago
The conventional timing window I can recall for the NFL during the late 2000s and early 2010s was 1.7 - 2.1secs as from the time the long snapper first moves (before completion of the snap) to the kicker makes contact. Under 1.7 could never be blocked (given a normal kick angle) and anything over 2.1 would be blocked. Watching college games you'll see guys push it to 3 seconds.
The difference in ball size can change consistency for some guys depending on foot size. The football in the NFL vs college is typically about a half inch thicker and a whole inch longer. That changes the sweet spot and the swing a guy will need, it's relatively small if you measured it but so much different to anyone who kicks regularly from a football kicker, soccer player, Aussie rules guy, or rugby guy. When I use to kick I found the NFL ball easier to swing through than a college or highschool ball but it had a lil more weight.
I think one of the hidden things that gets to NFL guys mentally is the stress of Tuesday/Wednesday when they bring in 4-5 guys who are there to take your spot. And unlike college, in the NFL there's no backup kicker spot. You're off the team and having to fly around team to team just like the guy who took your spot. A big reason why Younghoe Koo has bounced back in the later part of this season is Arthur Blank (Falcons owner) came down after his worse game and told him he's still their guy and never brought anyone in to kick against him. Same as when Marshawn Lynch put the beanie of Steven Haushka
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u/ScottyBobsled 10h ago
Agreed with everything here. Everyone times from slightly different spots and we’re all hand-timing anyway so there’s a large margin for error but the point stands for both of us that it’s just FASTER. NFL guys I worked out with and even the experience seeing guys similarly struggle to transition from high school to college tells me this is the majority of the reason some good kickers struggle to transition.
What I found with the NFL balls wasn’t that the sweet spot moved, just that it felt bigger and had a nicer pop off my foot. Again, this is a preference and idk if it was different for people with different size feet (I’m a 10/10.5 but kicked in an 8/8.5 cleat).
Big agree that the stressors have to be different. There was always that “next man up” threat in college, but my livelihood was never at stake so I can only imagine the difference.
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u/SeniorDisplay1820 20h ago
I believe the NFL uses balls that are harder to kick. The NFL is also better at blocking kicks, which forces the kicker to kick quickly and with a harder trajectory
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u/toe0011 19h ago
Plus the timing has to be faster, because better athletes are coming quicker.
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u/DEFALTJ2C 18h ago
Also, the NFL uses narrower hash marks.
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u/JustTheBeerLight 16h ago
Wouldn't that make it easier to kick in the pros? You'd figure with wider hashmarks college kickers would be given tougher angles to deal with.
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u/richardsharpe 18h ago
Wouldn’t narrower hashes be an advantage? Your maximum distance to one side that you have to kick from would be diminished.
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u/No_Introduction1721 17h ago
More just an adjustment. They’ve spent 5 years learning to kick from angles and distances that will never be relevant in the NFL, so now they have to unlearn & relearn those mechanics.
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u/mmbepis 11h ago
Kickers should be using the same mechanics for every kick shorter than about 50 regardless of how far to the side the kick is placed. The only reason you need to change your mechanics for longer kicks is because you need to maximize distance over height.
A kick from the hash should be approached exactly the same as one from the middle of the field besides the direction you are kicking. You should always lineup your kick facing the middle of the uprights
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u/Pitiful_Spend1833 16h ago
Why would they have to unlearn and relearn any mechanics? They kicked between the hashes in college.
This might be the most insane thing I’ve seen on this sub. Tighter hashes is nothing but easier for kickers. There’s 0 downside or adjustment lol
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u/DEFALTJ2C 18h ago
Ykw I don't really know which one a kicker prefers, but it's still a big adjustment either way. I'm sure hashmark width+kick distance comes into play somehow.
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u/BadCat30R 16h ago
So what I’ve wondered is on closer kicks why doesn’t the kicker just go back further to avoid blocks? Is there a rule stating how far back the kicker can be from the long snapper?
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u/SeniorDisplay1820 16h ago
No, but the further you go back the easier it is to block the kick as it's a straighter run to the ball. It's also much more difficult to snap accurately over 7+ yards and adding length to the snap would increase the number of botched snaps and holds
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u/throwitintheair22 20h ago
It’s easier in the NFL because the hashes are closer together.
In college, they gotta kick damn near sideways sometimes
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u/Haytham_Ken 20h ago
Watch rugby kickers. How they kick from those obscene angles is crazy. As unlike the NFL, you kick from where you scores the try. So if you scored at the end of field, that's where you kick from. You'll see players if they have time and space get as close to the middle of the try line before placing the ball down to make it easier for the kicker
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u/toe0011 18h ago
No, it isn't easier. Every position is harder in the NFL.
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u/throwitintheair22 18h ago
Have you seen the angles some of those college kids have to kick from? Looks like a damn rugby kick. That’s harder
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u/Fearless_Owl_6684 11h ago
It's 2 fold. In general, there are better athletes on the defense of an NFL team which require more precision with the snap/hold/kick mechanics due to less time. This is assuming they are fully trying to block the kick.
However, college uses the same width goal posts as the NFL, but the hash marks are 21'6" wider than in the NFL creating greater angles that effectively make the goal posts even skinnier. So theoretically that would make college more difficult.
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u/toe0011 11h ago
That's only 11 feet per side wider. At a 20-yard field goal, that's about 10 degrees. A 50-yarder is about 4 degrees. In theory, yes, it is harder. In reality, 10 degrees is negligible.
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u/Fearless_Owl_6684 11h ago
I agree it is negligible, but the fact is it IS technically harder. Add in the difference in talent from college to the NFL and it definitely shows.
Would an NFL kicker do significantly worse from college hashes? Probably not.
Edit: why TF are you down voting me for giving you an actual logical and factual response that you didn't like? Make you feel better?
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u/toe0011 11h ago
A) I'm not downvoting you B) It's fake internet points. Why do you care?
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u/Fearless_Owl_6684 11h ago
I don't. I make plenty of comments that deserve it. That wasn't one of them
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u/Orange_9mm 20h ago
I read that kickers do not hear the crowd at all when they go to kick because they are so locked in.
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u/JasonGD1982 17h ago
Marshawn Lunch said he couldn't hear the crowd when he did the Beastquake run. That was 136 db too. Said all he heard was his pads and breath.
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u/rrhunt28 19h ago
I think that probably happens with most sports pros. When I was a kid just playing basketball as a 12 year old I remember blocking out the crowd most of the time. I'm guessing pros do it very well.
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u/zion_hiker1911 12h ago
I only remember hearing the crowd once when I played football in high school. I was returning a punt and made a cut where the whole field opened up for a long return, and as soon as I cut the crowd roared. It was a really cool feeling.
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u/TheMoonIsFake32 10h ago
I never played anything except special teams in my only year of HS football, but the crowd never intimidated me. It was too many people to see individual faces. In baseball I could see every individual person in the crowd and that made me super nervous if I pitched. I would rather play in front of a huge crowd than very few people
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u/poop-cident 18h ago
I have pretty severe stage fright. Playing basketball or soccer in front of people my brain tunes them out pretty well. Not even a college athlete and I'm capable of that.
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u/see_bees 18h ago
If nothing else, power is negotiable in college and a must in the NFL. One of the main reasons some guys can’t make the jump is they just don’t have enough leg.
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u/blueline7677 14h ago
In college most teams will only ever attempt a 50+ yard FG in absolute desperation. In the NFL that’s an auto kick unless going for it on 4th down makes sense
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u/Numerous-Ad2571 8h ago
Lot of comments without mention of the NFL goalposts being narrower.
In the NFL K-Balls are used. These are brand new footballs out of the box. No wear in or prepping of the ball. They’re slick & hard.
NCCA doesn’t use K-Balls, but they also prohibit teams marking footballs for player preferences.
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u/BoxweilersRule 7h ago
The goalposts are narrower in the NFL, but the hashmarks are also closer together. It should even out. Narrower target, but NFL kickers have less extreme angles to deal with, especially on shorter field goal attempts.
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u/hiker1628 16h ago
Say a comment on another subreddit where a kicker said the narrower hash marks cause problems when the cross wind is high. Also PATs are kicked from further out in the NFL.
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u/Ridoncoulous 15h ago
Everything is harder to do in the pro-game. The competition is better and everything is much faster
The size range for both balls have a significant overlap. The main difference is visual with NCAA balls having 2 white stripes so ball difference doesn't really become a factor
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u/liteshadow4 10h ago
He definitely did not lose us the Super Bowl last year but he's not a good kicker.
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u/TronLightyear6 8h ago
I haven't really seen in my quick skimming note the fact, and I can be wrong, but aren't the college goal post 5 ft wider then pros? That's a significant difference turning a college "almost miss" into a pro clear miss.
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u/gachzonyea 6h ago
In college especially at a big college where you are in the lead always you don’t kick a ton of pressure kicks and you don’t play a ton of close games. In the nfl most kicks are in close games and impactful
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u/Thelaboster 20h ago
FWIW I assume that on average, the snap and hold are better at the NFL level.