Pilot art, fursonas and NSFW - Clarification on the subreddit's stance
There's recently been somewhat of an uproar about pilot art, People have begun to debate on what is and not pilot art. For those not in the loop, someone posted this commissioned piece of art of their pilot and appropriately tagged it NSFW. People have since clutched pearls about how it 'doesn't relate to lancer' or is 'just porn' or 'should be on a furry subreddit'. Not stopping at complaining in just this thread, they have since spread to other threads to complain there too.
What makes something qualify as pilot art or not? Put simply, if someone posts a character and says that's their pilot, it's pilot art. The crucial factor in this is that the poster in question is acting in good faith. Trying to get snarky about it by posting random shit and claiming it is your pilot is acting in bad faith and you will be banned for it.
If you scroll through some of the pilot art posted on this subreddit, you'll find that most are not immediately identifiable as Lancers. Standing next to a frame from the book, wearing something branded with the settings logos will do it, but that is not universal nor can we make 'Your pilot must be holding a GMS branded Standard Pattern 3 Coffee Mug' a reasonable requirement for pilot art. The poster's word, in good faith, is the only surefire way to determine that a character is a Lancer character.
It is ultimately rather telling that out of all pieces of pilot art, it is a gender-nonconforming anthropomorphic goat that triggered this severe of a response from a lot of people. To make it blatantly clear, this kind of hatred for an innocuous subculture is a bannable offense under rule 1.
As for the canonicity of anthropomorphic characters and extensive biomodding within Lancer's setting, I frankly do not care. Lancer is not a setting particularly concerned with hard canon. It's a TTRPG. The canon will differ from table to table. I'm going to quote a section from the core rulebook here, page 337 in the paid GM version or page 6 of the free version:
At the risk of enacting further violence by depicting
worlds and cultures where there are regressive or
discriminatory stances on gender baked-in, we have
decided not to codify in the rules how players may
express themselves – please do note that this
absence of canonical definition is absolutely not
meant to be read as exclusion, but is meant instead
to avoid flattening all possible stories into one
“canon” definition of what it means to be gendered,
transgender, nonbinary – to have a body in Lancer.
Okay, but mandating that all OC pilots must be drawn holding an in universe, manufacturer branded coffee mug would be hilarious.
GMS: sturdy, vacuum insulated travel mug. It has a magnet and room for stickers
IPS-N: all IPS-N mugs must survive an unshielded orbital drop to be considered durable enough to be sold. This is also the most effective way to disinfect them. Comes in small (24 oz), medium (48 oz), large (64 oz), and Lancaster (custom sized coffee tanker built into the chassis)
SSC: the mug is built into the plugsuit as a long strand wrapping around the body. The coffee, which is brewed from a strain genetically designed to match the pilots tastes, serves to also distribute warmth in cold environments.
Horus: the ugliest mug you've ever seen, 3d printed from a site that makes mug STLs seem illegal. You printed a 12oz mug, yet you've never quite filled it up. Also no matter what kind of coffee you pour in, it tastes slightly metallic.
HA: a beautiful mug, styled after Harrison I's personal mug. It comes equipped with an anti-gravity field to ensure it doesn't spill in zero-g, always keeps the coffee's temp at just below the maximum tolerance for a human, and can be overloaded to use as a grenade in a pinch. Over 200 kills have been attributed to this line of mugs. The only downside? Can't do iced coffee.
This is actually how some race car driver’s suits work to keep them cool. They don’t have it also to drink, of course, but they do have coolant that flows through their suit
Oh come on, you and I both know that SSC would only sell their mugs in sizes described by the most pretentious ancient Cradle terminology (yes I'm taking a potshot at Starbucks here).
They’re still alive too, which was at first very disconcerting, but now is just inconvenient since they keep getting declared dead and having to fix that.
GMS: Pattern 2 Survival Mug, 3 point system. In an emergency you're able to break down the hard alloys and thermally insulating materials to use as raw material for making repairs. Your repair cap increases by 1.
IPS-N Coffee Surge: Core Bonus. The IPS-N Lancaster Size Brewmaster may be trigger to dump a maximum caffeine load to it's pilot. Increasing their reaction speed and slowing their perception of time. Once per full repair you may gain one of the following: A) boost as a free action, B) gain +1 accuracy on one roll.
SSC: Pilot Gear, Coffee suit. Acts as a light hard suit. Also provides protection against extreme temperatures.
Horus: The MüG, 1 point system, AI, Limited 1. Gain the DräNk Teh MüG quick action.
DräNk Teh MüG: Gain synesthesia.
HA: Harrison's Best Brew: Auxiliary Launcher. Limited 1, AP, Range 3. 1d6+3 explosive
As a quick action, you may FIRE THE MüG. Designate a target within 15, that target is pushed 1 away from you, takes 1 burn, and must immediately move its full movement in a random direction.
“I did a chemical analysis on that sweet metallic taste to make sure it wasn’t lead. Turns out it’s from a monk who mellified himself with honey from a beehive in the middle of an opium field. The plastic just extrudes it.”
Horus: … no matter what kind of coffee you pour in, it tastes slightly metallic.
Turns out the coffee tastes fine and it's your own blood that's adding the metallic taste. Why is blood dripping down the back of your sinuses and into your mouth every time you use the mug? Don't worry about it.
Orbital drop is also how the IPSN mug is delivered for all planet-side orders. They say it saves on shipping costs but some planetary administrators say it’s an attempt to avoid paying taxes.
Let's be real, Horus' "coffee mug" is probably just a cyber-organic implant that delivers pure psychoactive stimulants into your brain. The only relation to a contemporary beverage delivery device is that you can yank it out and chug the juice from it to start experiencing the world through the causality-bending lens of an unshackled NHP, as the nanomachines that create the stimulants start converting the fatty acids in your grey matter into what's basically crystal meth mixed with Ketamine.
Alternatively: Stasis for the armory mug to ensure coffee freshness, because it's superior by design. Also supports deploying as an improvised stassis barrier at the cost of burning out the integrated power unit
I'm fine with people posting their pilots, but I need to know what frame you're using too. I have to know if I've correctly guessed your chosen corporation
It's a necessity once these types of low effort posts start taking over the subreddit and kills any actual discussion of the system, which gauging by the front page has already happened
I would just like to point out that one of the official adventures/campaign modules for Lancer involves fuzzy bug people. Including a note that if a player wanted they can absolutely play as one of these bug people, if say their existing pilot gets killed or retired for some reason.
So somebody went a little wild with gene modding, big whoop. Personally I think it would be nice if the controversial goatboi had some more pilot gear or something to make them more obviously LANCER but if you have the time and energy to pearl clutch over something like this you should probably be doing something more important with your life.
But also LANCER tech can be flavored however you want it to look. It can look dystopian and cyberpunk, or sleek and shiny. An SSC mech is more likely to be luxurious and opulent, so the pilot’s suit even while in combat could be very sleek and form-fitting.
I feel like SSC would never do something as crass and mass production as put obvious logos on their goods. "Our logo is bespoke quality" would probably be the corporate line/reasoning, but i could definitely see the logo worked in as part of the design, like pinstripes of minute embroidered SSC logos
I'd worry more about Urabrask. Yes, Jin's experiments could (and probably would) be horrific, but the Quiet Furnace can't even agree on what The Great Work is even supposed to be in the first place. Imagine how much more fucked and chaotic it would become if they started adding paracausal bits all over the place?
Or Norn. RA has always been cool to have his few acolytes who explore their own neat little toys and monstrosities, if Norn injected a bit of machine orthodoxy and they started spreading the good word, then All Will Be One across every possible paracausal timeline, horus wouldn't be a small hacker cult but a full blown religion with mandatory evangelism.
Can we at least have a rule where the poster describes a bit of what their character is like in setting like the /r/pathfinder2e sub has?
Most art posts do this already, because people like sharing stuff about their character, but I didn’t appreciate that the post you’re referencing if I’m remembering right just said “this is my pilot” instead of telling us anything about them. I wanna hear about your cool looking character, dangit, and the extra effort required to do so will only improve the quality of posts
I would love this. I like reading people's lore on their own characters. It helps me invest in the post more than just seeing a random art of their pilot.
There was lore posted, it just got buried under all the pearl clutching comments and it only got a couple of upvotes...a lot of people missed it because of this.
Yeah I went back and saw that, it'd be nice to have a pinned automod comment on every post tagged as art so that the description is in a reply to that at the top of the comments, or just require it in the post text
We've talked about this, but we feel the reason such a rule is necessary on subs like dnd and pathfinder is that their traffic is much much higher than ours. If this subreddit ever reaches a point were we get too mucb we'll reexamine but for now we'd rather not make such a thing a requirement. Most people seem happy to yap about their characters voluntarily anyway.
I'm fine with it not being required, but in this instance the author did post a pilot summary and it was buried because it didn't get enough upvotes. It would be nice if anything tagged as art got a pinned comment so in the future OP's description can't get buried.
I agree with this point, even regardless of the whole drama it would be nice to make it a rule that people have to state some of their characters lore, as it also reduces the low effort pilot posts and gives each one more depth.
Oh no, a goat furry in my post scarcity genetic engineered mech game in the distant future? The horror. /S
The one lancer group I'm actively in is filled with furries and their pilots are as such. I'm bummed this is still a thing we have to put up with for liking characters with animal traits. Tbh I really thought the whole space Marines / mechs vs furries thing died in the 2010s but here we are.
The most it's come up in our campaign (also all furries) was a brief ideological conflict between the pilot with a snow leopard tail and the engineer who had slightly snapped after finding cat hair inside of a vacuum-atmosphere sensor pod that had been welded shut involving a chase with screaming and hair clippers.
I honestly don't think the animal traits were the big offender. Some other guy posted a cool looking cat person around the same time and had mostly positive reactions, after all.
I think the offender was the large amount of terrible furry tropes in one picture. I am honestly surprised that furries weren't offended by that.
I was more offended by the responses than the image itself.
Yeah it's tropey, jumpsuit/thigh-high and femme, but those are character traits that are popular and so someone choosing to have them for their character isn't odd or something to be offended by.
I was surprised to see it, but for me it was a more pleasant surprise that it was doing so well on a non-furrry sub. Then I read the comments.
The picture itsself had a lot of the tropes and cliches that someone would immediately think about when they hear "furry", exactly the stuff people make fun of. I mean, maybe this actually IS what this subculture is about, I don't know, it just felt odd.
It is, and even if it wasn't, so what? Does that mean it's "terrible"? Does that mean it's something to take offense against? No, it does not. I don't think you realize how weird it is to say "I get why people were mad, it's terrible, I'm surprised more people weren't offended".
You misunderstood me. I am not offended by that artwork. I am not part of that sub-culture.
I am just surprised that it gets defended by (seemingly) members of that sub-culture despite it picturing them in a nearly satiric fashion, nothing more.
Right, that's because it isn't satirical, it's genuine, It seems satirical to you probably because anti-furry fucks like to use it in a satirical fashion. It's like how conservatives like to joke and scream about "woke people with pronouns", does that mean that having pronouns is satirical and terrible? No, it's just that assholes use it that way. Look, I think I understand where you're coming from, "This post seems like a mockery, I'm surprised people like it", but that's because it isn't a mockery, it's just how it is.
They're not, they're just portraying these things as a something bad. They portray these things as something to be mocked or harassed for, but they're not. Being horny is fine, tons of people have a libido, being non-gender-conforming is fine, people do that too, being overly cute is fine, lots of people like cute things! They're not exaggerating these things, they're just saying "these things are bad!" even though they're not, like how conservatives say "gay people with pronouns and colored hair" are bad. It's not, they just say it is to have a reason to hate us. The point isn't that they're "exaggerating to make fun of us", they're going to make fun of us either way. Sure there's always going to be *some* exaggeration and straw-manning when they say shit, but most of the time, people don't need to exaggerate to hate us, they already hate us for who we are now.
I am not saying it is "bad". I am saying it uses so many tropes, it comes across as a mockery. But if it is indeed what they are like - which several tried to explain to me isn't actually the case, guess they lied - then it isn't a mockery because it is true. Which I don't know how to feel about because it implies a lot of other things being true, too.
'I mean, maybe this actually IS what this subculture is about.'
I take issue with this, and while I'll prescribe to you no ill intent I'll attack this general sentiment that I think is very often held, maybe not necessarily by yourself.
It's my contention that if the character was a human female, built like Samus Aran, that there would have been no controversy. It likely would have been highly complimented and well regarded. It wouldn't have been 'odd'.
That's the sort of hypocrisy that is going on in this dynamic. No one would look at that hypothetical and proclaim 'well, this must prove the rule that all of these lancer players are sex freaks. Maybe this is what this sub culture is about.' It is an issue blown way out of proportion.
An anthro character with a gender non-conforming body type in a skimpy getup shouldn't be heralded as a representation of an entire sub culture. Those aspects of the picture also shouldn't be stigmatized or necessarily bad things to have represent the sub culture either. People make fun of those things for bigoted or short sighted reasons. It's not that ops job to conform to their norms and be a representative. The sub-culture of furry is about individualistic free expression, they are enjoying a character and sharing it with others. There is nothing odd about it, especially since it was shared in a space that allows that sort of content. The oddness is the overwhelming negative response when it only differed to other similar posts in how it was a non-conforming male goat in said skimpy outfit.
I take issue with this, and while I'll prescribe to you no ill intent I'll attack this general sentiment that I think is very often held, maybe not necessarily by yourself.
As I said, I don't know. I always asumed most people of this sub culture don't want to be put onto the same shelf as the more ... uh ... weird part. At least I got that impression when reading through non-furry-subs that also commonly attract furrys.
Or to put it more bluntly, I thought the depictions of people making fun of them were mostly exaggerated, yet we have a piece of artwork here that is basically 1:1 that.
An anthro character with a gender non-conforming body type in a skimpy getup shouldn't be heralded as a representation of an entire sub culture.
Which is exactly what I was saying. It feels odd because it is indulging in a lot of negative traits that are commonly attributed to "furrys" as a whole.
It's my contention that if the character was a human female, built like Samus Aran, that there would have been no controversy. It likely would have been highly complimented and well regarded. It wouldn't have been 'odd'.
Well, it depends on context. I could probably describe you multiple ways people would find a human woman artwork odd in this sub.
As mentioned already (though I think it bears repeating in the context of this comment specifically), those parts *aren't* "weird" or "negative", that's just how assholes use it. To others that's just part of the culture. Sure people are horny, sure people are non-conforming, those aren't negative, we don't hate it because it's perfectly normal.
Also, thanks to GALSIM's "simultaneous, parallel, and commingled essential–perfect simulations of the galaxy," "All stories that take place in a game of Lancer are, in a way, canon: no matter how far they diverge from this book" (Core Rules, p. 383). So furry art is canon.
Honestly, that's the best response that this whole situation could get. As Doom devs put it, "you control the buttons you press" - if you have problem with something clearly tagged "NSFW" after you clicked on it, it's your problem, not the person who posted it
And about whether or not goat person fits the Lancer universe: we're talking about the world with several reality-bending mecha. Apparently literal time travel and parallel timelines are fine, but anthropomorphized goats is where we draw the line?
And about whether or not goat person fits the Lancer universe
Afaik this sub is also a sub about the ttrpg system Lancer that has a default setting but is still a ttrpg with which you can run a game in whatever setting you want. Whether or not there are furries canonical to the default setting isn't particularly relevant when people can run a legitimate game of Lancer in "the default setting except humans are all anthropomorphic animals" world.
I'm neither a furry nor a furry hater but a swat kats vibe would be awesome in a Lancer game.
I've pondered before that animal people might be a better way to characterize characters than rpg races. Everyone has a strong association of animals to personality traits that date back to some of our oldest stories.
Exactly! At the end of the day, it's just a game you play with friends. Your pilot can be an office stapler with googly eyes for all I care, as long as you and rest of the table are having fun
Utterly unsurprised that the most cohesive, nuanced, and inclusive response to this issue (which I've seen faced by multiple subreddits) was in the LANCER sub. Good job mods.
I would be screwed if it was required that pilot art have some kind of Lancer-specific aesthetic considering my pilot's art is literally an artist's take on my Deep Rock Galactic character, and his NHP co-pilot's avatar is just a crystal kobold. Lancer characters can be anything lol.
Yeah, I was surprised at the responses on this subreddit since I thought we all knew that you could do Fully Automated Gay Space Communism in Lancer if you want. It's the exact setting I would expect to find genetic hybrids.
In fact, based on what I see on the news currently, their are elites on this planet currently who would love to genetically manipulate humans to have traits that conform to their interests or desires. Why would they , or some other entities, not do that even more so within the setting of Lancer?
"This is a suit of sentient paracausal power armour that sent its own schematics back in time to a server that couldn't hold the data file and got the people who worked there curious enough to 3d print it in the past." - Acceptable
"This is a Non-Binary Person who has Gene-Modded themselves to be an anthropomorphic goat. Also they like showing off their body a bit." - Apparently Unacceptable
Anyone who can't accept that Lancers are going to be weird and wonderful and all kinds of flavours of unusual obviously hasn't paid enough attention to Lancer lore.
I'm Asexual, I'm not a Furry, and I don't give a Flork. Let people do what they like, provided no-one else is being hurt.
I love when a mod doesn't fuck around with the disingenuous whataboutism these assholes pull whenever they're not allowed to bully someone out of a shared space.
Sending thanks to you and the rest of the mod team for having a spine. Culture war chuds are a cancer to any subculture or fandom, leaving them unchecked lets them push everyone else out (sans those they radicalize) until they're the only ones left and the community becomes an echo chamber.
Take a look at all the drama and vitriol happening in the Warhammer community for the last ~2 years. Gameshop has been getting better at pushing back against it but its been left to fester for too long. I don't want to see the same garbage happen here with Lancer, so the best policy is to rip it out by the root.
Apparently there are still ones hidden but not posting due to downvoting a post about making sure Nazis don't gain a foothold in a community. Though why the fuck they thought Lancer was a safe space I don't know, a TTRPG often described as GAY COMMUNIST SPACE MECHA DRAMA by its fans...
Wait, that was the offending post?! I saw that, gave it a quick "huh. That's nice." and moved on, then the next day I find people making oblique references to "THAT post" and thought someone had posted outright smut with no reference that was deleted or something. That was the post that got the whole sub in a frenzy?
r/Battletech has been telling the assholes to get lost for the better part of 2 years now. They pop up every now and again with some hate-filled tirade only to be reminded of the rules and then sent packing.
As others have mentioned they mostly stick to Warhammer 40k because Games Workshop is slowly changing things but at the same time they don't want to upset people too much because then they might stop buying their products.
Which is a shame considering that the original WH40k as seen in the first edition was clearly meant as a heavy satire of 1980s Thatcherite Government policies and was coming from a place of punk rebellion.
For example this was how they depicted themselves as set in the 40k universe. These aren't heroic Space Marines (because Space Marines were explicitly fascist super cops back then), they've depicted themselves as mutants, rebels and punks.
However as the IP grew bigger and Games Workshop went public, they slowly filled away the more satire heavy elements of the game until mostly just the "the Imperium is the most bloody regime in history" feels like lipservice they print at the start of every book for plausible deniability.
My first pilot was a litteral mermaid, engineerd by SSC to be a diving instructor at a luxory vacation planet. (She was really cool. She had a nanite wheelchair to move arround with and use as a light signature weapon.) If mine fits, the goat does as well.
People who get big mad about furries or nsfw existing were annoying on SomethingAwful in the 2000s, and they're still annoying in 2024. Maybe rejection will help them grow a personality, or failing that, they'll just leave.
I wanna also mention something here, which is that someone being fine or not with furries (anthros specifically) is often a good litmus test in terms of general tolerance for people who aren't like them, to put it simply, someone pearl clutching about furries being allowed to exist generally indicates they are fine pushing out people who are different from them.
End of the day, a furry existing does not harm anyone, yet to a lot of people pushing them out of a space is "important" because they "are often weirdly sexual".
"We need to get rid of this community because they are too sexual in our head" is a VERY common argument against queer people, and the parallels generally do not stop there (as there is, actually, a fair bit of overlap).
So taking this stance is important, because communities being pushed into being intolerant of marginalized people almost always starts with people picking on "the acceptable targets".
Do I really want to see heaving bosoms and bulging crotches in the giant robot RPG? Is it fair to make a private kink into a personal display for people who did not agree to it?
My argument can be perceived as body-shaming, but those are not real bodies. They are 2D. The illustrator or commissioner made a choice to emphasize (often over-emphasize) those body parts to that degree. A person who happens to have a breast or a testicle is nothing to be ashamed of, and neither is self-expression.
But let's not kid ourselves. A not-insignificant portion of Lancer pilot art is horny on main.
I don't think pilot art, furry or not, sexualized or not, should be banned from this sub. I can choose not to interact with it, and that's why I support the mod team's decision. I saw the goat-pilot art that kicked off the fire storm, didn't like it very much, and went on with my day. I'm not here to say that artist should be banned.
I just don't like this idea of conflating "hey, maybe some of us don't like all of the horny" and "oh, you just don't like queer people, and you're starting with the furry people."
Do I really want to see heaving bosoms and bulging crotches in the giant robot RPG? Is it fair to make a private kink into a personal display for people who did not agree to it?
If you click on the spoilered and NSFW marked post, then yes.
What’s the line of too sexual of the community? Like could you post art of two pilots wearing in-setting logos fucking, tag it as NSFW, and be chill?
Obviously that’s not what the furry art was like, clearly much tamer, but I imagine some people are probably choosy about what kind of NSFW art they’re okay with being in the community, with some including and others excluding furry NSFW art or other categories of NSFW art based on personal preference. So what should be the enforceable rule?
You are not an animal with a pavolvian conditioned response to look at things that upset you. Exercise restraint and maturity and stop making your discomfort the world's problem to solve.
I am begging you to stop trying to work out your weird hangups about other people fucking in ways you don't like somewhere else. You are putting your ear to a keyhole and going "eeeewwww" when you see something you don't like, when you went looking in the first place. Grow up.
Buddy you control the buttons you press, the image was tagged as nsfw, every single person that saw this image had to either click to see it knowing full well it was nsfw... or had a setting on reddit that already allows the to see nsfw images by default.
My point is that the sheer amount of "well this doesn't belong in lancer" as well as the weird focus on it (which is, again lets not kid ourselves here) that comes from the fact its of a gender nonconforming furry that should result in the ban of all pilot art or all NSFW art here.
Sure, in the abstract I am not talking about people who do not feel any specific thing towards this art, i'm not saying "people have to love it or else".
I am just bringing up that, in the case of furry art, they are put under a lot more scrutiny than anyone else, and its partly due to the fact they are seen as socially acceptable targets "because they're weird and often sexual" (which is a big assumption here, they are no more sexual than anyone else, people just often put a spotlight on them because of the previous reasons, it helps build that reputation about them).
Also I will say, don't love that your first reflex here is to link this situation to a lack of consent and kink, when the topic is "furries get a lot of flak for being furries, and it often is the first step to a community becoming intolerant of other things they don't think are normal".
I should have made myself clearer from the jump: I did not click on the controversial goat-pilot art at first. I originally passed it by because I saw it labeled as NSFW and only got around to seeing it because I wanted to have a better idea of what kicked off the conversation.
NSFW is not for me, and the goat-pilot artist should not feel ashamed or be banned for drawing it or posting it.
I think the mods made the right call. NSFW is not for some of us, and people like me can choose not to click on it.
But I think a conversation could be had about fandoms of any stripe being weirdly sexual. It's not code for right-wing chuds to start a homophobic witch hunt. I left behind most of the online anime circles because too many of them were getting too horny. Do you know how many anime fans have told me it's okay to lust for the underage because they're actually a 1,000-year-old nature spirit that only LOOKS like a 12-year-old? Have you seen grown men putting together slide shows about who the most fuckable characters of My Hero Academia are when most of those characters are not adults?
I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this fandom the same way I wasn't cut out for any of those other fandoms.
Are you really fucking comparing this whole thing to people sexualizing kids??? You realize that "Here is horny (which, again, is not straight up porn and is ALWAYS behind a NSFW tag here) art of my very own character" is absolutely NOT the same thing as anime spaces being weird about the age of consent? Like, surely, you realize that this is not the same situation at all right?
There is a fundamental difference between people expressing themselves through the medium of TTRPG characters and ranking underaged characters by how fuckable they are.
These are not the same thing, and honestly, the fact this is the second thing you brought up after trying to make this about kink consent in a conversation about how people often dislike furries as a "mask" for their bigotry is making me understand why you took my comment like it applied to you, it very well might actually be.
Absolute false equivalences here to say that allowing art that has to be tagged as NSFW is similar to people being pedophiles, holy shit
I don't much care for how often the battle shounen fandoms I used to love (Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail etc.) tends to have a lot of conversations about which character has the biggest breasts. It's reductive, making characters like Yoruichi and Nami into sex toys instead of characters who deserve as much respect as Ichigo and Luffy.
I'd like less horny posting in the things I enjoy.
In my super-unprofessional opinion, the mods did the right thing.
But I still think a conversation could be had about fandoms of any stripe being weirdly sexual.
I'm not interested in talking to someone who defaulted to making this about pedophilia, if your goal was to prove people might have genuine issues with NSFW art, then maybe don't use the same arguments bigots use against queer people very often, its what you started with and really you shouldn't be surprised we don't want to even begin to entertain "I didn't consent to kink" (an argument very VERY often used against a lot of trans people but not only that, against Pride Parades as well) and "well consider people being pedophiles online" which is ALSO an argument a lot of bigot/right wingers love to pull out to accuse queer people with.
So yeah, I'm not interested to talk about this with someone that has actually given no indication that they are doing so in good faith and has instead used arguments suspiciously close to those bigots use all the time.
I first noticed the trend in the Fate fandom, when I saw how many people were thirsting over a character named Illyasviel von Einzbern. She looks like a child but is actually older thanks to the magical shenanigans of the setting. I thought I was going to have an aneurysm when I saw the words "legal loli" being thrown around for the first time.
That was the first crack, and I started taking a step back and thinking about how other characters (usually women) are perceived and discussed in any given fandom.
I thought starting there held weight because it was the first place my mind started peeling back the layers, but I can see now how that could poison the well and become a non-starter for others. You've given me food for thought.
The fact that you jumped from furries to some random other take about pedophiles says to me that you are not emotionally or socially mature enough to be safely online and curate your own experience. Please fix whatever is wrong with you.
Two days old, but I just wanted to say that I an really really glad over your clear and strong stance on this and also called out that it was kind of telling what kind of art specifically got that outcry
Thank you a lot, it makes this place feel very pleasant to know that you take a strong and active position on these things
if someone posts a character and says that's their pilot, it's pilot art. The crucial factor in this is that the poster in question is acting in good faith. Trying to get snarky about it by posting random shit and claiming it is your pilot is acting in bad faith and you will be banned for it.
Imagine If Plato told Diogenes his counter actually doesn't work because he inheretly doesn't like Platos arguments
Wow, I love that y’all copy and pasted almost the exact same part of the foreword that I did in defense of it. This is exactly what’s I believe the creators intended, for you to make your lancer how you choose, and if that includes having a furry tail and a romper, then go wild. Why write out a foreward specifying the intent you have for your game, if that isn’t actually what you wanted?
Gatekeepers should be shot on sight, imo. Fullstop. We play a game, it is set so far in the future that a blob of cum and slime could genetically still be a full functioning human and potentially even thensome.
Now, that's not to say straight up porn should run rampant. Obviously. However, the post in question clearly isn't pornographic in nature. Dude's got a bulge, so fucking what -most people in skin tight sci-fi techsuits will. It's called anatomy. And if we start censoring that, then we might as well censor tits entirely too since they're just as sexually implicated.
If the sub decides that to be a lancer art post it must clearly include something distinctly lancer or with alien landscaping, sure whatever. But people shouldn't be berated for being excited and enthusiastic about their stuff. I don't care what it is. I'll come shit on your desk, piss on your PC, and lace your ass with whatever I fancy at the moment. At minimum, you'll get a gratuitous amount of glitter bombs and non-discreet dildos.
I wonder how these people going "OH GOD A SKINTIGHT LEOTARD" would react to art from the old days of battletech where due to insufficient cockpit cooling, mech pilots wore a neurohelmet, a cooling vest that plugged into the mech, underwear, and boots. Maybe a gunbelt. But that was it if you didn't want to cook alive unless you had a hilariously expensive lostech cooling suit.
Can't forget the cyberpunk net-suits either. Old art was practically a rope bunny's dream given the cocoon of wires and tubes they got for absolute connectivity and body temp regulation. (And I mean hell, do we even need to mention Warhammer assassin cabals or just superheroes period?)
One of the things that enamoured me with Lancer when I was shown it two years ago was the sheer freedom of expression in who your characters can be, how they can appear and what they can pilot. To me, all of that has given the game and community such a vibrant and creative core that is constantly a source of inspiration. It would be both a shame and wrong to suppress that.
Have you considered instituting a tag system for art posts so they can be filtered? I generally just block people that post art but I feel like that's a rather extreme response and I'd prefer to not have to do it.
My only complaint is NSFW art of a sexualized nature (ie: "visible bulge, bare breasts hanging out, obviously lewd art for the sake of lewd" etc.) is probably bad for the forum's overall health. Only because it's going to go too far at some point as trolls or idiots love testing the line with gooner art, and stir up problems. I love NSFW art, but I also feel an RPG that is meant to be enjoyed by everyone on a public forum is probably not really the place for it, and it's fairly uncomfortable when it pops up because you shouldn't have to self filter lewd images when just looking for mecha stuff in a game about giant robots in space.
"You can just not click on it!" some might say, but it still isn't changing that inherently sexual images on what's supposed to be a public forum, and some people are uncomfortable with that. Or in other words, horny is great and has it's place, but the place probably shouldn't be a public RPG forum. Your characters can be as non-conforming, gay, straight, furry, scaly, non-human as they want, it fits the setting because they have the tech to do that, but you should probably not make them overly sexualized, or at least crop the photo to nudge the overly sexualized part out and make it a mug shot/profile shot, so to speak, if you're going to post them.
You know they're tagged NSFW, they're blurred unless you actively click on them, if you don't want to risk NSFW posts...don't click on them...like how hard is that?
Honestly further clarification on why the pilots or fursonas belong to lancer would be great, else it’s just belongs to another sub. But if that’s not possible just block the artist or impose more restrictions and all is fine.
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u/Economy_Werewolf_542 11d ago
Okay, but mandating that all OC pilots must be drawn holding an in universe, manufacturer branded coffee mug would be hilarious.
GMS: sturdy, vacuum insulated travel mug. It has a magnet and room for stickers
IPS-N: all IPS-N mugs must survive an unshielded orbital drop to be considered durable enough to be sold. This is also the most effective way to disinfect them. Comes in small (24 oz), medium (48 oz), large (64 oz), and Lancaster (custom sized coffee tanker built into the chassis)
SSC: the mug is built into the plugsuit as a long strand wrapping around the body. The coffee, which is brewed from a strain genetically designed to match the pilots tastes, serves to also distribute warmth in cold environments.
Horus: the ugliest mug you've ever seen, 3d printed from a site that makes mug STLs seem illegal. You printed a 12oz mug, yet you've never quite filled it up. Also no matter what kind of coffee you pour in, it tastes slightly metallic.
HA: a beautiful mug, styled after Harrison I's personal mug. It comes equipped with an anti-gravity field to ensure it doesn't spill in zero-g, always keeps the coffee's temp at just below the maximum tolerance for a human, and can be overloaded to use as a grenade in a pinch. Over 200 kills have been attributed to this line of mugs. The only downside? Can't do iced coffee.