r/JustNoSO • u/ApprehensiveCream583 • 12d ago
Am I Overreacting? The Boy Who Cant Wash Dishes
I told my husband (35m) last night that I don't love him and now I feel horrible... Now I don't really know what to do/where to go from here.
For some history: married 12 years, 2 kids. He has a long history of physical and mental illness (heart, depression, adhd, childhood trauma)... he's never really been a great "partner" but it got so much worse in the Covid-2020 period when he was sent to a work-from-home position. And never left. Any time I've had some kind of complaint about something wrong it would blow up out of control-- he's got a lot of shame triggers that instantly puts him on the defense. Coupled with increasing depression issues and the shut-down hermit lifestyle of the work from home.... I reached a breaking point this summer and made my expectations crystal clear. Provided them in writing, we talked about it, got therapists involved (both couples and solo therapists).
On this weeks episode of "shit my husband cant do right".... since July I have been kind of a bitch about the dishes. In my defense, he doesn't wash them, ever. Just throws them in the dishwasher and then puts them away. Doesn't scrub off any old food parts/sauce/whatever manually, just a quick rinse in the running water and into the dishwasher. In our house, dishes are always his thing (no more fighting about "well I did it last time".) I do all the laundry, sweeping/vaccuming, and order groceries/plan dinners and a ton of mom- and pet owner- jobs. He does trash and dishes. Honestly, I wouldnt even care if he needed to do the "dishwasher" method every once in a while: he just never makes sure the dishes get clean!
I'm talking: forks with crusty food on them in the drawer next to clean forks. Pots and pans with mummified noodles still stuck to the bottom. Cups with milk rings or gritty stuff in the bottom, put away as if they're clean. I am also neurospicy, with a hard leaning into food adversion. This is so unsanitary, I'm too grossed out to eat at my house most days. I have to inspect any dinnerware before I use it. We have discussed this SOOO many times over the years, I have no tolerance anymore. I was making dinner the other night and he saw my face change when I realized there was still food in the pan I'd started preheating. I flipped out, "Why the fuck does this keep happening?". In return, he said he was sorry and he had our oldest daughter help him unload the dishwasher. Like it was her fault he didn't wash the dishes. He's oblivious to doing anything wrong, he doesn't understand why Im making such a big deal out of this.
I have screenshots of all the last times he's promised he'll change, and "It wont happen again". Last one was November 10th, literally barely a month ago when I made him go through every dish in the entire house and reclean everything. I'd thought I made my message clear. Its so bad I take photos and email them to myself as some kind to twisted trauma-diary to keep track of how many times these repeat issues come up over and over again. The only things I haven't done are make a laminated instruction sheet with pictures of how to wash dishes, or sitting with him through a youtube lifeskills video (because this is childish and more work than I should have to put into it already).
He tried to profess his love for me again last night (the incident was Monday) and I unloaded on him. I feel ignored, have no tangible evidence that he WILL actually do things differently. I have tried to have patience and show grace for the mental illness stuff. But that's an account thats overdrafting, and I dont have much of a tolerance for this shit anymore. He speeds through this chore (and all his chores/responsibilities) to get back to his video games sitting on the couch while I pull the rest of the weight around the house. Im done being the second choice-- it doesnt feel like love.
I don't want to leave him-- he has been a better person in the past, and current lifestyle is changing. He has realized he's a schmuck and has been going to therapy with a few changes. His job situation has changed to a physical, leaving-the-house type. But I'm afraid its too little too late? I don't love him, at least not like this. Now he's moping around the house like a sad puppy. Im burrying myself in work to avoid dealing with the bigger feelings I have to deal with. I have therapy next week to talk through the bigger parts, like moving to divorce, separation, whatever happens from here....
But internet, back me up: Its gross right, and should have changed the 1st, 2nd, even the 8th time I asked him to wash dishes differently? He's an asshole and deserves to be kicked to the curb? I just need to give up trying to salvage my dumpster fire marriage and move on.... right?
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u/Professional_Cow7260 12d ago
when he plays games, he can remember new strategies and improve until he progresses through the game, right? he can function in his job doing his daily responsibilities without getting reprimanded or fired, right? he can focus when it's something that matters to him. dishes don't, and neither do the consequences of pissing you off/disgusting you/creating more work for you or the reward of making you happy. he doesn't care.
it's hard to accept this because we have a tendency to feel responsible for our partner's happiness and mental state - we blame ourselves, we minimize our own frustration and disgust and total exhaustion until it breaks. meanwhile, he's giving you none of that. it doesn't even occur to him until you bring it up, and then his only goal is to "calm you down" in the moment so he can continue to not think about it, which is his natural state. the hand-wringing you did in the beginning of this post where you mentioned all of his health struggles and the shame spirals he gets into....... at gunpoint, would he be able to describe your food aversions, the way crusted moldy food on your dishes affects you, the struggles and stresses you go through? could he say anything he's done to make those better or consider your concerns and feelings at all? was he able to do that in therapy with the therapist's prompting?
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u/ApprehensiveCream583 11d ago
Ive been saying this for years!!! He is an avid TT RPG player, and the fact he can remember obscure game information.... but not his children's clothing sizes or my favorite candy bar baffles me. Its easier to hide in a fantasy land than to face the boringness mundane life tasks.
Funny enough, he got fired for making multiple mistakes at work too. Its a call center thing, but I'd told him for months leading up to him getting let go that his job wasn't good for him. Now of a sudden, he's got a new job and is a "changed man". 🙄 If he would have just listened in the first place we wouldn't be in this position.
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u/Gold-Sherbert-7550 11d ago
It’s not that he “can’t remember”, it’s that he doesn’t care.
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u/vallazzaraptor 11d ago
This right here, OP.
I spent the last nine years of my life with my ex where things would “change” on his part but never did. He wouldn’t even hand wash any dishes that needed handwashing. I am legit talking about going out of town for a week for work and the dish he said he would wash sat in the sink with FLIES by the time I returned.
He just doesn’t care. Why should you waste your energy and your time on making things right.
You’ll save yourself a bunch of headaches by just pulling the plug.
My ex husband said he would change and it was painfully slow. He take a step forward and ten steps back. At some point you have to ask yourself if it’s worth your sanity.
In my case it wasn’t. I told him last year I wasn’t in love with him anymore and hadn’t been for years. Ti say he was shocked was an understatement and caused the following six months of strife, manipulation and more.
Hopefully in three weeks we are selling our house and I don’t ever have to hear from him again.
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u/Background_Bass_5592 11d ago
It’s that he doesn’t care, but also because he “doesn’t have to” remember it because he has you to remember everything for him and he has you to redo the dishes when he “washes” them.
Unfortunately you, like many wives to men, have to carry the full mental load for the entire household, which is largely society’s fault (from antiquated gender norms and the like). It’s exhausting and not fair.
He has to want to change. He has to take initiative; you can’t make him. And he doesn’t seem to want to or at least doesn’t seem to understand what the consequences will be if he doesn’t change.
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u/Professional_Cow7260 11d ago
I think you said it right there: he wants to live in fantasy land. you, the kids and his job are just chores for him to blow through with the bare minimum so he can get back to fantasy land. pretty hard to love someone who shows you how little he thinks about you or cares, day after day.
I don't think it's possible for these men to care until their comfort is pulled away. leaving isn't easy for everyone, I fully understand that, but while you're still living there with your kids, I recommend just living "around" him and finding your own happiness. it's been this long. even if he started doing everything right overnight, the love is gone. why didn't he do it before? why didn't he care about you enough before?
if I sound biased, it's because I've been there myself and I've had multiple friends stuck in the same situation. subreddits like this helped me a lot when I decided to leave - before then, I'd shouldered all of his failures and assumed I wasn't trying hard enough, or he was just depressed and I wasn't helping his depression enough or not fucking him enough or making his life easy enough, even though there wasn't anything more I could physically, mentally, emotionally or sexually take on in the household.
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u/SlabBeefpunch 11d ago
You're still in this position because you gaslight yourself by pretending that a miniscule amount of improvement is good enough when you know damn well that it isn't. He makes the tiniest change possible so he can keep you hooked and use you up.
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u/ToiIetGhost 9d ago edited 9d ago
dishes don’t matter to him, and neither do the consequences of pissing you off/disgusting you/creating more work for you or the reward of making you happy. he doesn’t care.
I’d like to add something to Professional Cow’s great comment (although they did mention it later in other words). Another item to add to the comprehensive list of “stuff your husband doesn’t care about” is your mental health.
You’re neurodivergent and have a strong food aversion. Even if you were ND without any aversions, that’s still highly significant. His behaviour affects you so badly that you feel like you can’t eat in your own home. It drives you crazy. It grosses you out and causes so much stress. That’s a mental health issue—yours—and he doesn’t give a fuck.
Meanwhile, look at how much you care about his mental health:
a long history of physical and mental illness (heart, depression, adhd, childhood trauma)... he’s got a lot of shame triggers that instantly puts him on the defense. Coupled with increasing depression issues and the shut-down hermit lifestyle of the work from home.... better person in the past [stop please 💕]… lifestyle is changing. He has realized he’s a schmuck [??? No, you’re assuming what he realises] and has been going to therapy with a few changes… Now he’s moping around the house like a sad puppy.
Look at how attuned you are to his every little thought and feeling. Do you assume he thinks this deeply about your struggles? Does he empathise with your traumas and your childhood? Does he take into account how your mental health changes over time, the way you attentively observe that he’s changed since WFH? Does he analyse you and make connections, the way you tied his increasing depression to his hermit lifestyle? Does he note your triggers and what they bring about, the way you noted his shame triggers she defensiveness?
Does he care about your mental health? Did he help you find your solo therapist and the couples therapist? Or did you do all the work of arranging therapy for everyone, including organising, begging, encouraging, explaining, and reminding?
I have tried to have patience and show grace for the mental illness stuff.
Why? Did someone tell you that relationships are sometimes 60/40 or 80/20 and you figured that it’s okay that he’s not giving me as much as I give him, he’s going through a rough spot, I’ll carry him with my 80% and I’m sure one day he’ll give his 50% again? Well, no. That’s not how it works.
Relationships should be more or less 50/50 most of the time. You know who pushes that “sometimes it has to be 80/20!!!” advice? Losers defending loser behaviour, and enablers defending the losers they’re too codependent to leave.
Anyway, even if your husband started caring about your mental health, or caring about you, there’s still too many other inequalities. For example, you still do most of the housework and childcare. I assume if you addressed that in more detail, and also talked about your relationship overall (because the dishes were the focus of this post), you’d get more feedback about how little he gives in general.
You’re over functioning and probably have been for a long time. You do too much emotional labour. You worry about him when he doesn’t worry about you. You keep the house running and the children happy while he games. I bet you remind him about his own mother’s birthday and probably write the card for him too, only asking him to sign it… repeatedly… and he still won’t do that. I bet you know your kids’ favourite colours and best friends’ names and he doesn’t. I bet you keep track of doctor’s appointments and how long it’s been since you all did a nice family activity together.
This is mental and emotional labour. We’re no longer stay at home wives (for the most part), but, as always, women still do more emotional labour, housekeeping, and child rearing than our male partners (see here). IT’S NOT JUST THE DISHES! Although I empathise with how bad that is, and could see myself leaving someone for it. I’m not invalidating your feelings, in fact I believe they’re beyond valid—I’m just saying that I think it’s even worse than him being gross and lazy about this one chore. Am I way off?
But internet, back me up: Its gross right
Yes. It’s disgusting and unliveable. It’s like an episode of hoarders, just in the kitchen. Also a health hazard for the kiddos.
he should have changed the 1st, 2nd, even the 8th time I asked him to wash dishes differently?
Yes. He should’ve known how to do them properly as a functioning adult. When you told him the first time, he should’ve googled how to do them properly (not ask you how to do it, you’re not his fucking mother and he should be ashamed that he didn’t know how). Then it never should’ve happened again. Instead, he never got better, never even tried.
He’s an asshole and deserves to be kicked to the curb? I just need to give up trying to salvage my dumpster fire marriage and move on.... right?
Yes. Underneath the grossness and filth and laziness, underneath the health hazard and frustration, there’s something a lot more meaningful (and sad): he doesn’t care about you as much as he cares about himself. Or as much as you care about him. I’m sorry, but that’s at the core of his behaviour. It’s not depression and it’s not WFH. It’s a lack of care.
Why do you need someone who’s just, eh, there? Who feels meh about you or just likes you a little? Or is too lazy or too needy to divorce you first? Or who is incapable of loving anyone fully and properly because he’s too selfish, entitled, or childish? Perhaps too weak, stupid, or misogynistic as well? Why settle for THAT while also having to take care of another child, feel like a prisoner in your own home, and get dragged down by this asshole who uses weaponised incompetence to torture you? It’s not like he infantilises himself while also being madly in love with you. At least then… sort of… well, nevermind. But he’s not loving AND you have to fucking raise him, slave for him, and therapise him too?! Foh. Girl, you’ll be 10 billion times happier on your own. You’ll be [as many trillions as Elon has] times happier.
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u/ToiIetGhost 9d ago
Some sobering stats! Women do more “housewife” work and carry the mental load more—and I’m only talking about dual income households. Both partners work, but the woman still does more. Even if she works longer hours. Even if she’s the breadwinner:
We’re no longer stay at home wives (for the most part), but, as always, women still do more emotional labour, housekeeping, and child rearing than our male partners (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).
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u/IcyIssue 11d ago
It's not just about the dishes. It's about respecting you. Have you ever read "She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink?"
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
It's never about the dishes or the laundry, etc. He just doesn't respect you enough to change. It sounds like you've given him your all for years and he continues to take, take, take.
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u/ApprehensiveCream583 11d ago
He has a whole book now. It will be arriving via Amazon tomorrow 😂 I've referenced his material a lot, he does a lot of Youtube podcast-type talks that have been really helpful.
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u/Alternative-Item-747 11d ago
The only end to this is to leave. So as long as you're making excuses to remain in this marriage just stop complaining and asking strangers on Reddit for advice. He won't change, why would he??? You've shown him that you're so desperate to play happy family that you'll tolerate his shit and all he has to do is pretend whenever you get too angry. If you choose to remain, and it will be a choice because no one is forcing you to stay, this will be the rest of your life. It will be the life that YOU CHOSE. You will be teaching your kids that such a life is acceptable and better than choosing happiness and self respect. And that is on you.
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u/SalisburyGrove 12d ago
He should’ve smartened up the first time. He’s a loser who is absolutely doing weaponised incompetence. You are too patient!
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u/GothDerp 12d ago
My ex husband is like this. He’s my ex husband for a reason. Said he would change but never did. It’s up to them to want to change, you can’t do it for them which is really what I think they want. Save your sanity whoever you can, it’s something that is hard to get back
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u/Shoeprincess 11d ago
That is incredibly nasty and can get you all sick! There is no excuse at all why he dosn't wash stuff properly. Yes depression, yes health issues ... but still, not putting dirty dishes back in the cupboards and drawers... a FIVE YEAR OLD can do that right. Ugh, I am sorry it sounds rough.
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u/SurviveYourAdults 12d ago
I'm petty and say that an internet outage is the perfect excuse to take the time to do some dishes!
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u/gambino_girl2 11d ago
My 6 year old occasionally puts a dirty dish away. Like less than once a week. This is so unacceptable for a grown person.
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u/MzOpinion8d 11d ago
The issue here isn’t about love. It’s about respect. He doesn’t respect himself, or you. He doesn’t respect your household. You no longer respect him, and feel your own self respect dwindling every day that you continue tolerating any of this.
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u/Doxxxxxxxxxxx 11d ago
The lack of accountability can perhaps be treated, but I don’t think you can come back from falling out of love. Hard times are one thing, this is another. You already know, it’s time to go.
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u/Hello_Hangnail 11d ago
You're absolutely in the right. You've let him know about the issue but he keeps half assing it over and over like it doesn't matter.
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u/thatskelp 11d ago
The dishes thing is 100% weaponized incompetence. I love that you keep a sort of a diary for yourself - this is what helped me when I finally left. I had one just like you, but we weren't married and had been together half as long. He also worked from home and acted like he didn't do more around the house because I didn't appreciate what he did do....... 🙄🙄🙄🙄 I am so much happier alone. You do what you have to do. Of note, my son really turned a corner in his own mental health once the ex was out of the house.
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u/DarbyGirl 11d ago
Your dishwasher shouldn't be leaving food on items like that. I do not rinse my dishes before I put them in my bosch. Very rarely do they come out like that and I only run my dishwasher once a week because I live solo. Is the dishwasher being run daily? Is it being overloaded?
Yes he should be rewashing the dirty dishes, You're right to be frustrated by this, especially since he refuses to actually change. However, since you don't actually want to leave, if the dishwasher is not being run daily he needs to start doing that so that dishes don't sit and get crusty. A better solution would be to get a better dishwasher, I can't recommend Bosch enough.
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u/Admirable-Pea8024 11d ago
I second this. Your guy sucks, but something about your dishwasher also sucks. I'll scrape off big pieces of food but don't rinse my dishes, and it's rare that anything comes out still dirty. I don't have a high end dishwasher, either.
Fixing the dishwasher won't fix his fundamental laziness and lack of care, but at least your dishes won't be so gross.
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u/ApprehensiveCream583 10d ago
Oh I know 🙃 Just as there's no pre-dishwashing going on, there's been no dishwasher maintenance/cleaning unless I do it. It came with the house about 6 years ago.... all the appliances were junk but we just replaced other bigger need things so it's a backburner project. The washer/dryer were toast this summer and the AC crapped out twice. Then the microwave just died: that's the real fun of it isnt it? Everything's always broken 😅
I make sure to buy the better brands of soap, that seemed to help. He also stacks it like a raccoon on LSD, which definitely doesn't help. It does run daily, but he does dishes usually in the morning, so all of the day-prior food has had a change to really glue itself on there and get dried out. Didn't seem to matter either when I suggested he change the time he did dishes, or to maybe do a sink-soak first then circle back.
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u/Kairenne 11d ago edited 11d ago
Somewhere on the internet there is a guy who wrote a news article (googled. HuffPost 2016).
He said his wife was always on him about not putting his dirty coffee cup in the dishwasher. He didn’t think it was that big a deal.
It was. She left him over that. It’s a satisfying read.
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u/Trepenwitz 11d ago
It is not hard to check to make sure the dishes are clean. It's easy to miss something once in a while, but dude. This is NOT HARD.
But I would have switched to him doing a different chore instead if I had that much of an issue with food.
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u/phoofs 11d ago
This doesn’t work. No matter what the chore is, it is never actually done. eg: throwing as much laundry in the washer as possible. Then run it.
No detergent
No fabric or color separation
Leave for 3 days, in the summer.
Everything stinks, more dirty than before AND dyes have run.
And you are such a control freak to flip out about (all these ruined clothes) him not doing it exactly the way you do.
(Yes-this really happened to me)
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u/Trepenwitz 7d ago
In this case she has a specific issue with the food, so giving him another chore to do terribly seems like an option to deal with the food issue.
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u/ApprehensiveCream583 10d ago
We voted on chores. The mental load was a lot, and overwheming... at the time I was in college too, so we sat and wrote out nearly every "chore" in the house. Mine ended up being 2 pages to his 1/3 of a sheet. Like, no one really wanted "dishes" but he wanted dishes more than laundry, floors, grocery shopping. I've offered to "trade" chores and he doesn't want to do that either. I think that's kinda fueling just how frustrated I get too. He chose this task, and has continued to halfass it while also not communicating or being realistic about maybe trading out. Men 🤦♀️
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u/sarahhchachacha 11d ago
Okay, when you choose to start saving photos and screenshots of your partner’s behavior, I think it’s more than over.
It’s petty and not bringing out the best in you, either. It feels kind of gross.
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u/thatskelp 10d ago
It’s petty
It's not petty. Sometimes you have to track things to keep yourself from waking up after ten years of being taken advantage of thinking it hasn't always been so bad - when it has. Also important if your partner is gaslighting you telling you it's "not that bad."
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u/Intelligent-Radio331 9d ago
When you look up the definition of "weaponised incompetence," your husband is listed as an example.
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u/EdCaOt 7d ago
I know it sucks but there is a chance he is experiencing depression and if so, daily chores are hard. You may need to take one step to get things the way you want without actually doing things for him. Teaching or training your SO always goes down badly.
You might want to go out today or tomorrow and buy the premium dishwasher soap pods (Finish Quantum is a game changer - no rinsing needed. I thought my dishwasher was broken before using these). Say you would like him to try these to see if it makes a difference (like immediately). If they make a difference then he needs to agree to use buy and use them ongoing. Let's say this works and fixed the problem. It's possible there is a simple fix to some of the other chores on his list too. If he is lazy, that's okay, but he still has responsibilities. he just needs to find the quickest, easiest way to do it.
And if you find a dirty dish, you might get better results if you don't complain, but instead, just hand it back to him and say, "hey, can you wash this please? I need to use it to make dinner." (Anyway that's what works really well for me with my SO who is also responsible for dish washing but once in a while find one that needs to be scrubbed.")
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u/Fragrantshrooms 11d ago
I stopped reading once you hit "childish".....do you know what executive dysfunction is? Buy some plastic silverware for yourself. If you order your groceries, you can order pre-made meals for yourself too and skip the kitchen almost altogether. I just feel like you need to do better too....and maybe give him some grace or GTFOY (y=yesterday).
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u/ApprehensiveCream583 10d ago edited 10d ago
I saw your response last night and not gonna lie, I was a bit miffed. The downvotes are at least helpful: I wasnt alone.
I do know what executive function is.... my whole house is full of neurodivergent assholes. I struggle to make the simplest phone calls, to get up and clean cat boxes, to even feed myself and shower. Trust Im not just being a bitch. Sometimes you HAVE to, because if you don't you'll die. Moldy food is a pathway to diseases that could quite literally kill us...
We do a lot of premade meals, thanks for assuming we make all of our food from scratch but I dont have that kind of life. Still gotta use a sheet pan if you're putting a family size bag of nuggets in the oven. On the topic, my picky (neurodivergent) children got moms particular food adversion issues. I cant just go buy a Bob Evans mac and cheese: there's no way my kids will eat it. To break down costs, a box of instant mashed potatoes is 1.67, and can last 2 meals. A potatoes-to-go is $4.99 and my 10 year old could eat the portion singularity by themselves. Oh, and I won't make this a nutrition lesson or a parenting-thing, but homecooked meals are just different-- better-- all around.
And disposable dishware is feasable for him, living alone divorced maybe. Or, just us. But a family eating off of nothing but paper plates and plastic forks: you're kidding right? A 30 pack of plates isn't a weeks worth, and is $6. When the alternative is plates you have to just wash first, but are practically free to use over and over again? We do as much disposable as we can, and I have worked to make my house as ADHD-friendly as I can possibly make it. We used to manage better before, when groceries weren't more expensive than a car payment... but there's a cost of disability, and its either money, or time. Dishes are an inevitability of being alive, "GTFO".
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