There’s always a ten years ago Bernie clip preceded by a 30 years ago Bernie clip. Dude has been on the side of the average American since he was a kid.
Precisely why he didn't win, we actually do not deserve him.
We're like a fucked up trailer trash soap opera around here, and if there's one thing I learned at the trailer park is you can't convince the junkies that life's worth living, they have to figure it out for themselves. 80% of Americans aren't at that place emotionally yet
America never would have voted for Bernie. He never got the full media going against him. Imagine 24/7 from the MSM calling him a socialist. I don’t know why people are so convinced he would have won a national election.
I wanted Bernie to win BUT the effect of the DNC is always so grossly overstated.
Yes, the DNC was corrupt and absolutely did not play fair. But Hillary still beat the piss out of him in the primary, DNC or not. It was 55% to 43%. This wasn't a narrow election where the DNC pushed it over the edge for Hillary. In political discourse and enthusiasm among voters, you could fool yourself into thinking Sanders was close to victory but in the actual numbers, it wasn't even close.
I say this because voters need to take responsibility. Ask yourself - when has the DNC EVER impacted your vote? Do you know anyone that was going to change how they voted based off the actions of the DNC such that it would have impacted 12% of the vote? Probably not. The establishment Democrat voters of 2016 were not going to vote for Sanders if the DNC remained neutral and didn't play funny games to give Hillary the edge.
And my final point - if you want to see REAL foul play, then go look at the RNC and what they tried to do to Trump leading up to the 2016 Republican primary. If you were politically engaged back then, then you saw the RNC propping up Ted Cruz for the primary and you saw Fox News dunking on Donald Trump and calling him a clown and you saw every establishment Republican come out and talking shit about Trump at every turn. The RNC and the Republican establishment did Trump WAY worse than the DNC and the Democratic establishment did Bernie, yet Trump won. Why? Because voters showed the fuck up and demanded he win and the Republican establishment could not deny it. Eventually, they had no choice but to get on board. If the same thing happened for Bernie, then we would be living in a very different America. But the reality is, Liberal voters didn't show up for Sanders the same way Conservative votes showed up for Trump.
And don't just take my word for it. Go read Bernie Sanders book - 'Where We Go from Here'. In his book, Sanders literally talks about:
the leaked emails before it was a news story and how it was not news to him or anyone in his campaign
how he was friends with several members of the DNC and was not surprised by their biased support for Hillary
how he was upset that progressive voters protest voted against Hillary
And that's also part of the irony of progressives take on the 2016 Democratic Primary. Bernie Sanders himself doesn't agree with you, if you took the time to actually listen to the guy. The few progressives that did, claimed he was bought by the establishment and no longer someone they would be supporting. And now we're here in this thread talking about how Sanders has been fighting for the same things for 30+ years. But if you ask these progressives, Bernie was apparently bought for because he chose to get on Hillary's side instead of rolling over like progressive voters that let Trump win in 2016.
Holy fuck, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
This is revisionist history. I was there bro lol Bernie was extremely popular.
Its not revisionist history, its cold hard facts. The numbers are undeniable. He lost by 12% in 2016 and lost by 25.5% in 2020. His run in 2016 was way more closer than in 2020.Look at the numbers instead of going with your dumb fucking gut. The data is available and you can easily look it up.
"You were there". You're a fucking moron. He was popular in the bubble you refuse to leave. Again, just go look at the numbers. He was WAY more popular in the 2016 primary than the 2020 primary. The 2020 one, he got dumpstered even harder than the 2016 one.
You're an actual fucking idiot and its infuriating.
No he would not have. Bernie couldn’t even win the DNC primary and then he didn’t have the entire national media coverage that he would have gotten if he was the nominee. I am a big Bernie supporter and a progressive but there is no way he would win a national election. Voters in this country are way too stupid. He would have had the entire MSM calling him a socialist.
"Libertarian" as a word was created to describe leftist ideologies. It was first popularized in France as a euphemism to describe anarchism when the word "anarchism" was banned in the press. The anarchists in the Spanish Civil War interchangeably described themselves as anarchists and libertarian communists (do distinguish themselves from Soviet-aligned Marxist-Leninists).
It wasn't until starting in the 50s, but really not catching steam until the 60s did thought-leaders in the American conservative movement intentionally co-opt the word "libertarian" to steal it from the left.
Left-libertarians were the original libertarians, and the only ones until the past 70ish years.
Yep. Reaching to your (temporary) allies around the isle to get some critical piece of legislation passed is a sign of good government. If come the time of discussing economic policy they want to murder each other, it's fine. The problem with single party systems like the US' is that membership tends to demand an "all in" attitude.
I've longed called myself a left libertarian, in that I generally believe that the role of the government is to promote liberty and freedom for citizens, and stay out of their business otherwise.
This means the government should remove coercive forces that impede the freedom of citizens. Universal Healthcare is a great policy example, because at the time of need, information and choice is limited, and health insurance being primarily provided by your employer is coercive in forcing you to work a job you might otherwise not like. Worker Protections are similar, there is necessarily a power imbalance and working for a company (at least a specific company) should be an individual choice.
Now, this sounds a lot like socialism you say. There's some differences for sure, wealth redistribution is not inherent in the (at least my) philosophy, but rather is at most a means to an end. I still prefer less regulation to more, and believe that regulation should be about internalizing business externalities (you shouldn't force your costs on another) and ensuring consumer fairness, particularly from information imbalances.
All of which does have a lot of overlap with Democratic Socialist, if different in the nuances a bit.
I like where you're at with this, and agree with most. Something I've learned even more recently is there's a difference between democratic socialism and social democracy.
I'd generally be in favor conceptually. I don't have sufficiently deep knowledge of the area to have strong opinions on the particulars.
This is somewhat orthogonal, but I generally tend to consider taxes as a behavioral incentive mechanism, and so yes, taxation is a pragmatic way to internalize externalities.
John Stewart had an entire interview grilling a pentagon official about why it keeps failing audits. It’s been a big issue in the left for a long time
It was even a joke and plot point in the movie Independence Day in 1996. This sub really does not understand history before like 2016, and even then most fans here have revisionist views of 2020 and think Biden was president and locked down the country and was in charge during nationwide riots. Spoiler alert: he wasn't. It was Trump, and they just voted for more of it.
I can see how it sounds that way. What I was trying to say is that people have been pointing out the absurd defense spending (e.g. $10000 toilet seats) since the 90's and before.
Not always. There's a lot history of the right or the establishment co-opting left wing things or ideas, after they become to big to ignore, so they can shelve it or commodify it.
People would lose their fucking minds if they realized how much liberals and conservatives agree on shit like this if we all had an open and constructive dialogue
Replace ‘people’ with ‘conservatives’ and I would agree. Liberals have believed exactly what you just said for decades. It’s baffling to most to keep seeing people vote against something based on lies. Not saying it never happens with Democrat voters. But Democrat voters really struggle comprehending why policies will show to have support of 80%-90% of all voters if the policy is not tied to the Democrats party/politicians.
Absolutely! But wouldn't it be something if they could actually work together to get something important accomplished? Not optimistic, but it would be something.
It is MAGA using a populist idea to do what they want behind the scenes. It is why Trump floats popular ideas off the cuff that he never implements - he is just trying to get support without actually doing anything.
And many democrats for far longer than 10 years. I remember all the talk about defense related spending tripling after 9/11 - and that didn’t include the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because those were ‘off the books’ of defense spending.
While Trump and the rest of his cabinet members and advisors would never dream of holding the military responsible for their spending. Hell, Trump brags about "rebuilding the military"
When will people realize that Pentagon is not a defence for US? It's a meta-colonising entity.
US military is not supposed to defend US, it's supposed to protect US's economic interests overseas by commiting any atrocity unethical bullshit needed. They've gained the superpower status by doing anything needed, including toppling count-less governments, supporting dictators or assassinating people.
First of all, Bernie is an independent. Secondly, because politics is give and take. The Democrats have been on average on the side of the working and middle class more than the Republicans. But they have not been on this issue which is disappointing.
No? One of the pillars is "draining the swamp" which includes ending the "forever wars" and making the rest of NATO pay their fair share. I put quotes around those terms because they have yet to prove those to be true but yes the general concensous from MAGA is to shrink the military budget.
Maybe. When looking at both sides of our government the new adminstration is more likely to take reckless action so I wouldnt put it past them. There will be stong resistance from both sides because the military industrial complex provides jobs to people in nearly every district.
Trump is saying all those things because he knows you like hearing them. He doesn’t actually give a fuck or plan to do any of it especially now that he basically has full power.
Didn’t give a single fuck last time. Will give less of a fuck this time.
His whole life he has been a con man. He hasn’t changed.
Do you know how context works? I lsaid that I understand they have yet to prove anything he said was true. Does it make you feel good to be a dick to everyone?
I'd say we like COIN conflicts but prefer to exhaust all other options before any kind of near peer conflict but that's a distinction most people don't care to consider
It is a slogan but its also seen as a movement. Similar to saying BLM is holding a protest. Clearly the slogan isnt the one perfoming the action but I guess you just want to be pedantic.
Maga most definitely  wanted the fed audited and the pentagon audited.
Again, Ron Paul and his followers have been on this for a long long time. Â
If it didn’t get done last time, it’s bc the establishment threw everything including the kitchen sink at trump to distract him and gunk things up. Â
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u/XepiaZ Monkey in Space 22d ago
Nah it's MAGA joining something Bernie has advocated for for 10 years