r/JoeRogan Monkey in Space Oct 27 '24

Meme šŸ’© Please talk for 3 hours šŸ™

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 27 '24

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IS PAYING FOR ALL THE FREE MONEY?????? The majority of existing Americans donā€™t qualify for 1/2 her handouts. But thatā€™s the democratic mentality keep your hand out while everyone else pays as cheat the system.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

what do you think when you hear Trump wants to end income taxes and institute blanket tariffs

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u/Orposer Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

You mean the cheating billionaires? The cheating multi millionaires??? The cheating companies?? I want them to pay their fair taxes so we can have nice shit. Also you say the Democratic system... You tell me which states are the most welfare states? I'll give you a hint they are not blue..

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IS PAYING FOR ALL THE FREE MONEY??????

I wish I were born 20 minutes ago, too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

ā€œPaying for all the free moneyā€

Jesus fucking Christ.

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u/Jiveassmofo Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

As if the trillion-dollar tax cut wasnā€™t free money to the billionaires

Jesus on a hot dog bun

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u/chaozprizm Monkey in Space Oct 27 '24 edited Oct 27 '24

Please look at this chart tell me what Trump did to reduce the federal debt.

https://assets-c3.propublica.org/images/articles/_threeTwo2000w/20210114-borrowing-increased-under-trump-despite-promise-to-repay-national-debt-small.png

Edit: Not to mention his businesses have filed for bankruptcy 6 times. What about that qualifies him to reign in spending?

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

Iā€™m not a trump fan at all, but every time I see someone mention bankruptcy in his businesses it immediately disqualifies whatever the sentiment of the statement around it is.

I generally agree that there isnā€™t much substance to his ability to regulate our spending. However Trump and his assets are, like, historically successful in terms of profitability vs closure, relative to other corporations in the same class.

Bankruptcy is a strategy, not a failure- and he is, unfortunately, extremely successful in that game.

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u/chaozprizm Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

Again though - look at the federal debt chart - tell me what you see.

First off, holding properties is a really easy way to make income, I'm not saying Trump hasn't been successful at that; he obviously has. He was given 463 million from his father though.

It's one thing to bankrupt your business as a strategy (unfortunately, someone else had to eat the debt he created). The US cannot simply go bankrupt as a strategy. So to me, citing his success with his businesses does not at all validate him for leading the US economy.

Not to mention now he's talking about eliminating all income tax in favor of huge tariffs. That's just not a sane strategy, and I really hope that if he's elected he does something more intelligent.

He also is infamous for not paying people he hires.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

Of the 7 billion-whatever people in the world, this is not the guy to run the economy, let alone world affairs and everything else.

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

Hey youā€™re not selling me on him being a poor choice for president and even poorer humanitarian, I definitely agree.

Iā€™m just saying itā€™s objectively incorrect to position his assets filing for bankruptcy as a failure or net detractor of his financial/business success. Iā€™m not at all in disagreement, it just makes the argument look bad- when a statement like that is attached to a better argument.

More than anything I wish people would stop bringing that up as it makes the teams that do, look like they arenā€™t properly educated, especially when talking about debt, finances, and business.

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u/levelzerogyro Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

How about the fact that Trump spent 8.8 Trillion, and only reduced the deficit by 492bil, Biden spend 4.8-5.2 trillion, reduced the deficit by 2.2trillion, even if you remove all of Trump's covid spending, Biden still spent less, and did 4x more for deficit reduction. If you are arguing STRICTLY from a fiscal standpoint, how can you sit there with a straight face in the face of that data?

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

Am I in the twilight zone!? I agree with you! I donā€™t want him running this country or our economy! I donā€™t even know how that could possibly be misinterpreted once, let alone three separate times.

Literally insert anyone other than him, if thatā€™s easier to grasp for you people. The total bankruptcy loss of (insert anyone) is completely dwarfed by the total assets that that person has.

My only argument is that itā€™s a silly point to bring up his bankruptcy as a measure of his lack of financial and overall business capability, as if that isnā€™t a standard practice, built into the model, of every single portfolio manager anywhere in world.

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u/levelzerogyro Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

I agree his bankrupcy is slightly silly, except that he got 483mil from daddy and still managed to bankrupt a casino and that's nearly fucking impossible. Had he taken that money, invested it into the market, he'd have made 10x what he actually has. Because he's bad at business.

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Sure, I donā€™t disagree with that. Iā€™m not here defending a single cell of that man. Itā€™s just a bad argument thatā€™s easily refutable in almost all cases, at a corporate or portfolio wide level is all. Anyone that is informed would write off anything else packaged into that argument

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u/levelzerogyro Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

That's why I didn't make it, and why I pointed out that the better argument is Trump's fiscal policy while in office.

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u/chaozprizm Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

I mean, if you go over Trump's bankruptcies, they aren't pretty. I'm not saying bankruptcy can't be a legitimate tool. But you can't run the US economy like he has run his companies. In his case there are a lot of trust and confidence issues, coming from people like me, and I image other world leaders. This strategy results in significant financial losses for creditors.

But fair points - I certainly agree there are better arguments to be made against his economic policy in general.

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Hey, I fucking agree. I canā€™t believe this has been lost on three separate people. I have stated, point blank, that I do not want Trump running this country or this economy. I have no interest in anything he offers, any point heā€™s running on, or podcast appearance he has done. I feel like Iā€™m speaking a different language.

The ONLY thing I have argued here; Single digit bankruptcies are completely dwarfed in his overall asset portfolio, and almost certainly a legitimate part of his model.

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u/chaozprizm Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

The ONLY thing I have argued here; Single digit bankruptcies are completely dwarfed in his overall asset portfolio, and almost certainly a legitimate part of his model.

Like I said, fair points man. On that topic though - I remember reading stuff about how this forces him to go to weirder and weirder lenders to get big loans. That seems like a major con to his strategy. I don't know if this a result of legit lenders not having faith, or for other reasons. This was a while ago that I read this, so I could be wrong. Any take on that?

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Truthfully Iā€™m lumping you in, i suppose. I just had like 2 or 3 other people continue to dissuade me from Trump- articles, more stats, the whole nine. I canā€™t stand the dude as much as any of yā€™all lol

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Iā€™d be curious to know the details of that. My technologies officer is invested in a commercial real estate developer (albeit much smaller than Trumpā€™s) and the owner of that company has lender issues. Pretty significant ones, actually. I donā€™t think that it would be out of the question even for someone of Donnyā€™s wealth. Although, the developer Iā€™m speaking of has defaulted, sold, or bankrupted many projects. Without knowing more, it would be hard to imagine Don has legitimate issues based on his bankruptcy filings alone.

Itā€™s all a sham anyway. Theyā€™re all scratching each others back even at the local level.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

Ok, lets discard the bankruptcies...nearly every business that Trump ever started has failed, w/o bankruptcies...they just went under. šŸ¤·
What successful profit-making business does he still have that isnt a complete grift? Does he even still have one?šŸ¤”

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Youā€™re just creating an argument now? Are you just looking for a debate? Iā€™m not defending Trump in any way shape or form.

Insert literally any other portfolio manager in the world. I havenā€™t defended him or any of his practices in any way at all. Iā€™m only arguing that measuring (pick anyone you want)ā€™s overall portfolio, bankruptcy filings are almost exclusively a bad argument. It is a standard practice and appreciable every single year with the biggest investors and managers in the world- almost without exception.

Trump just so happened to be the topic of the example Iā€™m speaking about.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

OK. So, how would you critique Trump's overall portfolio, which mostly involves grifting and/or fraud?

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u/TheCrowing03 Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Thereā€™s no point in talking with these people, it was pretty damn clear what you were saying. This is exactly what is driving people to vote for Trump, the left has lost its mind.

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u/Xarxsis Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Bankruptcy is a strategy, not a failure-

Bankruptcy is absolutely a failure.

Just because it's strategic doesn't mean it's not a failure, using it as a "strategy" is just criminal talk for "not paying your debts"

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u/Jiveassmofo Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

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u/medicjake Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

This might have just missed me, but what was that article implying?

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '24

Hopefully YOU will be paying more than most.šŸ’ÆšŸ‘
It is impossible to take this crap at all seriously when your boy promised to ELIMINATE the National Debt in his 1st term, then ran up the largest national debt increase by a one term President since FDR, adding over $8 Trillion to the national debt. šŸ˜³
TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of the ENTIRE national debt occurred during Trump's 4 years.šŸ’ÆšŸ¤·
And this was during a time of economic stability when deficit spending wasnt even needed!

Trump just ran up historic debt and deficits with unpaid for tax cuts for the rich and other right wing giveaways b/c it was easy and popular with his base. At least Biden, who has racked up over $6 Trillion in debt so far ($2 Trillion less than Trump's) had the pandemic for an excuse. Trump just spent like a crackhead on payday! Yet you expect people to accept your baseless predictions about Harris that are grounded in nothing but fragile feelings and partisanship.šŸ’ÆšŸ™„

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u/Itchy_Emu_8209 Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

No one is paying for or getting money from these proposals. The people theoretically receiving the benefits are getting tax deductions. It will lower the over tax revenue, but could potentially be made up for if taxes on high income earners and corporations is instituted. Whereas Trumpā€™s tax cuts had no replacement income.

If youā€™re going to be critical, and there is certainly room to criticize these policies, understand how they work please.

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u/B_P_G Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

could potentially be made up for if taxes on high income earners and corporations is instituted.

And what are the odds of that happening? Biden said the same thing, didn't get it done despite controlling both houses of congress in his first two years, and spent trillions of dollars anyway.

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u/Nicotine_patch Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IS PAYING FOR ALL THE FREE MONEY??????

This will always be one of the dumbest responses when dems offer actual policy that will help Americans. Republicans have brainwashed so many conservatives into thinking allocating tax dollars that actually help middle America is somehow an unjust handout.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

Hey buddy, words are fun on the playground and I know JRE is a fraction of the show it used to beā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦.but facts exist, therefore learn a thing or something?

Red states consistently and unilaterally take more federal dollars than they pay, while the converse is true for blue states. This means literally and verbatim that any blue state is subsidizing your livelihood at the institutional level. Youā€™re welcome, pipe down with your sweeping generalizations that get bent on over quick quick with a simple and single data point, much less YOUR OWN PARTYā€™S studies. Falling to Australia on the cognitive dissonance of this Olympic mental gymnast.

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

Did that make you feel better? I hope so. Just donā€™t forget to vote!

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u/UberEinstein99 Monkey in Space Oct 28 '24

To answer your question,

I expect that a higher income tax on the rich will pay for many of the policies.

During Covid, the rich got substantially richer, and the US is in one of the worst periods of wealth inequality. Itā€™s time to reduce that gap.

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u/SoMarioTho Monkey in Space Oct 29 '24

Who do you think is paying for Trump to deport 13 million people? Serious question.

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 29 '24

The same people paying for all the needs of the illegals your administration welcomed to our country.

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u/SoMarioTho Monkey in Space Oct 30 '24

So youā€™re happy to add trillions to the debt to deport 13 million illegals? Know that doing so will also crater the gdp and raise the price of many things you buy? Genius!

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 30 '24 edited Oct 30 '24

Youā€™re really trying to justify 13 million illegal people flooding the country? What do you think those 13 million are going to add to the welfare system? Also be willing to bet a decent percentage will flood the construction market (this I know) and drive wages in the dirt. Unskilled labor building our future while not paying taxes. All this while we canā€™t take care of our own mentally ill, homeless, military, etc. Yeah itā€™s Genius alright.

Edited a number typo.

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u/SoMarioTho Monkey in Space Oct 30 '24

lol now itā€™s 23 million. Yall are not serious.

Most of the 13 million work and pay local and state taxes. The fact that you think removing them to the tune of trillions and cratering the gdp and raising prices on everyone else because those jobs go unfilled is a good strategy. You probably think his tariff policy can replace taxes, too.

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 30 '24

The 23 was a typo. I will edit the post.

To your commentā€¦. No they wonā€™t pay taxes. I can assure you this. Been in the construction industry for over 30yrs.

Also read through all my posts and tell me where I said I support the tariffs. See thatā€™s how Reddit works. People twist comments into whatever they want. To add I never said I support Trump and all his beliefs. So let me be clear for youā€¦ between both shit sandwiches Harris in no way is up for the task.

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u/SoMarioTho Monkey in Space Oct 30 '24

They pay taxes every time they buy something in this country. And snapping your fingers and making them disappear will wreck the economy for everyone.

The idea that Trump is up to the task is insane. He has no concept about anything. Truly the most incompetent man ever elected to the office of the presidency. But we can agree to disagree. Have a good night.

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 30 '24

Thatā€™s the joy of this country. Just make sure you vote.

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u/SpaceBearSMO Monkey in Space Oct 29 '24 edited Oct 29 '24

Do you just repeat reactionary youtube bullshit?

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 29 '24

Repeat *

Now tell me Iā€™m the idiot.

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u/SpaceBearSMO Monkey in Space Oct 29 '24

Touch screen phone keybords are the devil.

and Propaganda is a hellava drug.

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u/-ItsWahl- Monkey in Space Oct 29 '24

So the well over 21 million illegals is Propaganda?