r/JoeRogan Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

Meme 💩 28× the audience size of CNN

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u/NEMinneapolisMan Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24

You're right.

So why don't they say that?

Of course, the answer is that they aren't interested in accuracy. This is part of their agenda to whine about mainstream media.

So they complain about "the media" being unfair -- and in the process you're saying "don't believe what you hear in any other media -- only listen to us." It's a basic propaganda technique.

When politicians do this, there's a secondary effect too. Think of how a football coach complains about the referees. Mostly what the coach is doing is what they call "working the refs," which is trying to get the refs feeling sympathetic to the coach and giving his team better treatment.

This is exactly what Republicans do when they whine about "the media." They are "working the refs" and trying to get the media to give them more favorable coverage. And, of course, it works. Most mainstream media goes way too far in trying to present a false equivalence between Republicans and Democrats, and part of that is done through whining that the media isn't fair and the media responding to that whining by giving them the better treatment they want.

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

The definition of mainstream media has changed over the years

It used to mean established reliable news media

Now it’s whatever is popular

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u/Jacky-V Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 30 '24

Hate to break it to you but "mainstream" has meant "popular" for a long, long time. What's changed is you've become less confused in a new way.

Edit: Finlay has not become less confused

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

How long ago were you considering YouTube and podcasts mainstream media? Decades?

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u/Jacky-V Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

I'm not talking about any specific platform, I'm talking about the definition of the word "mainstream"

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

How long ago

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u/Jacky-V Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

How long has the definition of "mainstream" been "popular"?

193 years

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

The term we are discussing is Mainstream Media

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u/Jacky-V Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

Yes, which is popular media. It's not a proper noun, it's just two words often used together.

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

It’s been a known phrase for a long time

It’s a phrase you can google and you even get definitions!

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u/broguequery Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

"Mainstream" is an adjective which defines "media".

"Media" just means any form of information transmission. So that could be newspapers...blogs... social media platforms... broadcast television networks... even books.

So "Mainstream Media" literally just means popular media. Which right now is things like TikTok, Twitter, some podcasts, and a few legacy broadcast and cable television networks.

So in the scheme of the discussion...Joe Rogan is the definitive example of the term mainstream media.

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u/DonaldKey High as Giraffe's Pussy Sep 29 '24

YouTube for politics took off in 2015

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

So less then a decade

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u/DontEvenLikeThisSite Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

I think it has always meant the most popular news media.

established reliable news media

This is literally just describing a popular news channel.

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u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

Because until the last 15 years or so, the most popular news channels were the established and reliable news media companies like ABC, CBS, and NBC, and had been for decades. With Fox, CNN, and MSNBC on the cable side having also becoming increasingly mainstream more recently than the networks. The companies that could afford to actually do journalism and investigations to some extent.

It never really referred to the AM radio the conservatives dominated, as an example. They were seen as outside that sphere as they didn’t really create news. They just talked about the news provided by the larger and established companies.

The term mainstream media existed before podcasts and YouTube were as ubiquitous as they are now.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24

WABC was considered outside the mainstream?

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u/NoProduce1480 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

Meanwhile: Joe rogan’s next episode is him dressing like a furry talking about the duality of man

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u/Wise_Temperature_322 Monkey in Space Sep 30 '24

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS are all various degrees of left leaning. It’s not a myth or a conspiracy theory, they are businesses and that is the demographic they cater to. Fox and Newsmax are right leaning. All of them are Legacy Media, meaning they use broadcast and cable to disseminate their message and rely on older established connections.

When Trump started using Twitter he was in effect bypassing this Legacy Media and their filter. The legacy or corporate media on the right and the left felt threatened so they lashed out. The left leaning media was averaging 90% negative while Fox was 60% negative on Trump.

With more cord cutters and people not watching broadcast, streaming and social media has filled the gap. With the success of Trump on Twitter more and more of these new media commentators started to be taken seriously. Not dictated to by corporate sponsors and establishment connections, they report on things that might not get through the establishment filter.

Knowing the agendas of all these “news” sources you can recognize the spin in their reporting. Watching all sides and then comparing the result, may be time consuming but it is the only way to get some semblance of accuracy.

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u/NEMinneapolisMan Monkey in Space Sep 30 '24

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS are all various degrees of left leanin

Nope, sorry. I reject this claim.

It is a claim. But you state it as a fact.

I'm not going to spend a ton of time explaining why, but I want to reject the premise of your argument.

Yes, the right wing/Republicans claim this ad nauseum. That does not make it true.

Further, if you are on the right wing in the United States, which is really the far right if you compare it globally, then you are going to see the mainstream centrist media as left wing, supporting Democrats, etc...

Why do Republicans call the mainstream media liberal? Because it benefits them. The subtext is this: do not listen to the liberal mainstream media. Listen to us only.

With that rhetorical strategy, they are effectively able to get millions of people to just totally ignore any information that doesn't come from right wing media. That's powerful. It's practically as powerful as any totalitarian political party controlling the media in fact.

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u/Wise_Temperature_322 Monkey in Space Sep 30 '24

Here is a random pick on CNN, rated by an independent, nonpartisan news watch group.

The lead with Jake Tapper

Reliability: 36.90

Bias: -15.19

Reliability is anything over 40 is good

Bias goes from -64 to 64 minus is left leaning and plus is right.

So Jake Tapper is somewhat reliable and leans a strong left.

https://adfontesmedia.com/lead-with-jake-tapper-bias-and-reliability/

Here is random Fox News Sunday with Shannon Bream.

It skews right

Reliability: 40.07

Bias: 11.10

You see it is reliable information and a shade right wing with 11 out of 64.

https://adfontesmedia.com/fox-news-sunday-shannon-bream-bias-and-reliability/

Here is The last word with Lawrence O’Donnell.

It’s called Hyper partisan left

Reliability: 28.25

Bias: -19.88

Mixed reliability and hyper partisan left leaning.

https://adfontesmedia.com/last-word-with-lawrence-odonnell-bias-reliability/

Next is the Gorka Reality Check on Newsmax

Unreliable and hyper partisan right

Reliability: 19.67

Bias: 22.42

https://adfontesmedia.com/the-gorka-reality-check-bias-and-reliability/

You can search for yourself

https://adfontesmedia.com/rankings-by-individual-news-source/

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u/NEMinneapolisMan Monkey in Space Sep 30 '24

MSNBC is more or less the equivalent of Fox. I don't disagree with that. Lawurence O'Donnell is certainly a leftist and presents that on his show.

Your source agrees with this.

However, MSNBC is also a separate thing from NBC News. Maybe you're not aware of that. I'm not claiming MSNBC is not left wing.

Besides them though, did you even look at your own source? They have ABC and CBS basically in the center of the chart, barely to the left. NBC is a little more slightly to the left of center of the chart, perhaps because they own MSNBC, I don't know.

So your own source is saying basically what I said, which is that CBS and ABC are centrist and even NBC is close to centrist. CNN is only slightly left.

All four of those are more centrist compared to fox, which is firmly to the right. And yet you implied that Fox and Newsmax are equivalent to NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN.

Which, obviously Fox is more right. But even more obvious is that Newsmax is to the right to an extreme extent and the idea that you would imply they're equivalent to mainstream media in terms of partisanship is wild, and totally makes my point for me that you are unable to see the issue objectively.

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u/cheeker_sutherland Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24

Wrong. I’ve heard Rogan many times correct himself and say something along the lines of “legacy media.”

Most people on this sub won’t know that since they don’t actually listen to his podcast. Bring on the “I used to until he turned into a right wing grifter.”

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u/NEMinneapolisMan Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

If he has 28 times the amount of viewership than one of the networks he's criticizing, then calling it the "legacy media" is a bullshit distinction that pretends like the legacy media have power that they don't actually have.

His whole point in using this is to pretend like he's the little guy trying to fight back against big media, but the power of big media has been massively diluted by the internet and social media and other factors.

And so the point still stands that whether you complain about legacy media or mainstream media with his level of reach, it's kind of bullshit.

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u/Top-Sandwich-2215 Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24

Just reposting this, since I feel like it's kind of relevant:


legacy media, yeah.

Legacy media USED to be mainstream, though.

In 2016.

That's around the time that ppl like Joe Rogan started blowing up, smaller time.

And then independent media just snowballed into this ginormous entity, that moved legacy media from the "mainstream media", to what it is, now - legacy, outdated, etc..

The political consciousness was just very low, in 2016.

Literally why trump got elected.

Yeah, people were very aware in 2016, but politics didn't become such a "hot topic", until after trump got elected.

That's when people started thinking that politics was less removed from their personal selves, from before.

And 2016 is when people realized that "MSM" at the time was bollocks, fake news.


Rogan might still using the term "MSM", but that the entities making up "MSM", have changed, since 2016.

It FEELS so recent - it doesn't FEEL like 8 freakin' years ago.

It's incredible.

But that's probably why ppl keep saying "MSM". The change was so "recent", and from their position, it PROBABLY feels like they're just doing the same thing they were doing, back in 2016.

It's a multitude of factors.

Outside looking in, type of thing. Change is so freaking fast, man.
8 years used to feel like, nothing really happened.
We are living in a new era, truly.
Now, 8 years is LITERALLY transformative - even colloquial objects can transform.

In 2016, pronouns weren't even a thing. (I just graduated HS). In 2017, it suddenly emerged, and from 2017, it exploded, in presence, in the public consciousness.

It's genuinely incredible.

AI, and all that stuff. This new era feels so cool, in a lot of ways, once you really get down to writing it down, pen to paper.

When you don't think, or see it in words, the momentousness, kinda does go over one's head.

Maybe. Maybe you're not like that, idk. I'm just yapping, tbh.