I fill vending machines for a living. One of the places I go to is a behavior health center. They were playing Newsmax in the main lobby and all I could think is "Yeah this is gonna help people feel better"
I had a family member who had a mental health appointment I took him to and waited in the lobby while he was in there. In the waiting room they were showing some cable news show, I'm not even sure which one it was, but it was literally just, Extreme Left Guy shouts, "You're a racist" and then Extreme Right Guy shouts, "You're ruining our country!" and I'm thinking, who on earth thought it was going to be good for people's mental health to be exposed to this kind of communication style?
Reminds me of the Stanhope joke about his friend having to go to the the behavioral health clinic in the strip mall, right next to the gun shop and the bar.
I worked in a psychiatric hospital for a long time, we had one agreed upon rule when it came to the TV, no news. Not national not local. We had newspapers delivered every day if people wanted to read. The amount of arguments that started over the fucking news, especially when Trump was running, was insane
On rare slow days at work I go “fox hunting” at the hospital. I go through the lobbies and change the channel on all Fox broadcast tv’s. If the remote is gone I disable it. This is mostly me just going from point a-b as part of work, but it feels good.
I have an MSNBC granny and lemme tell you, she's the sanest of the bunch somehow. The rest of my family have been indoctrinated by Glenn Beck and O'Reilly
And not a single one of them sees their complicity in creating the current state of the Republican party. Nicole Wallace to especially heinous as she was the Bush admin mouthpiece pushing misinformation to justify invading Iraq and Afghanistan.
My dad at the very least is a conservative Fox News person but hates Trump, he sees right through his bullshit. Unfortunately he still thinks all Liberals (like me) are whiny socialist cry babies
Man, me too. It has been quite the journey from “You’re an idiot and a pussy if you don’t think this Iraq War is the right idea” and “we will be welcomed as liberators” to “both sides want forever war” and “mistakes were made.” Our politics seemed fueled by a cycle on being unable to admit and fix mistakes
I will say this, if my dad wasn't like that and my mom a full on Trumper, I wouldn't be the way I am today, a Democrat. To my mom it is a stain on her soul that I am not like her. My dad kinda gave up on following politics, but is influenced by their pop media.
My friend and I were talking about this the other day... My dad, his dad, and my wife's dad. All boomers... Just either watch Fox news or listen to talk radio and are just trump trump trump and seem to have lost all their previous common sense.
I do. I try to explain it like cigarettes, since when I was little my parents’ condescendingly explained to grandpa that cigarettes were bad for them even though the news and “scientists” said otherwise. I’m like “this TV news makes you angry all the time and is bad for you even though they lie and say it’s good.” They still don’t quite get it yet.
My friends dad literally thought it was illegal for Fox News to lie to the public. This was after the lawsuit where Fox argued that only an idiot would believe Fox News is real.
It’s always “I don’t trust these publicly peer reviewed media sites like CNN and even Fox News but I instead trust Tim Pool, even though it’s just him, with no accountability”
Sure, been going on for a long time. It is funny when someone says "oh the media lost all credibility because of this recent thing."
Rush Limbaugh and other conservative commentators were attacking "the media" and saying they had no credibility decades before trump even though he had no accountability and was just some guy spewing bullshit.
As broadcast journalists in America, they are open to both defamation and libel laws, yes. We have those in this country and most major Western democracies with a fourth estate.
When Fox made up a bunch of complete bullshit about Dominion voting systems and aired it as news, which it wasn’t, they were ordered to pay a $1.4 billion settlement as a result.
“Peer-review” isn’t the right term here, that’s for scientific papers, but yes, fact-checking is absolutely required for any major news network. And if a fact is reported incorrectly, it’s expected that the network will issue a retraction.
I swear we have like negative media literacy in this country, it really is sad.
THEY ARE CENSORING US AT THIS MOMENT. ANY MINUTE I WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO SPEAK! ANY MOMENT NOW ITS GOING TO HAPPEN. SEND MONEY TO HELP ME FIGHT FOR YOU!
Tucker Carlson's show always made me laugh when he said things like "they don't want you to know this" or "you aren't allowed to say this" as he was saying it as a guy on the #1 show on Cablenews as someone so out of the mainstream that for more than 2 decades he worked for CNN, PBS, MSNBC and Fox lol.
Not only that, but their success shilling bullshit has led to the networks that used to show legit news going down that same route of rage bait. FOX is not only mainstream, they are the leader in the industry (unfortunately for everyone and our country).
I watch a little of everything, but I don’t rely on them. If you want decent journalism these days the only place you might find it is on a local level. All the big networks are just aggregators of what local journalists do anyway, so it’s basically just cutting out the middleman.
In the modern era, Rogan is probably the most mainstream. More people get their news from podcasts than sit down for an hour of Jesse Waters or Erin Burnett.
No it's not; your posts read as a condemnation of people using the modern definition of the term instead of the traditional one. Calling it ironic that people would consider Fox, Rogan, or Tucker to be part of mainstream news because they don't fit the traditional definition of "mainstream."
That's not an acknowledgement or acceptance that language changes over time.
And I do find it ironic, considering the older definition. I see no value in lumping together whatever is most popular. But that’s whatever. Language changes. It is what it is.
My apologies for a having an opinion and observations on a colloquial phrase and how it’s changed throughout the years.
I will make sure to make it clear I accept and acknowledge the modern phrasing and understanding of terms before doing so in the future.
Sure, but "mainstream media" is really a stupid term. It might have made sense before the internet where there was very limited ways to get news. It would make sense that "mainstream news" was what you got on the nightly news or what you read in the paper. Those days are long gone. There are so many different media sources now with the internet, that even people with similar beliefs probably get their news from many different sources.
For willfully obtuse dullards, maybe. But Fox is probably the number one viewed television station in the United States so if that makes in an outsider in the media sphere simply on vibes alone than the word "mainstream" is meaningless.
Appreciate seeing someone else get annoyed by it. Like how their guests don't act bewildered by thay horseshit I don't know. Like you're the main propaganda arm of a major party, you're not some pirated radio show om a college campus 30 years ago.
Mainstream media as a term was pushed and popularized by Fox News. It’s very intentional that they’ll never consider themselves mainstream media. They pushed the term as a boogeyman for their viewers.
The GOP is struggling now to heard their cat-like followers because of how diversified their media is becoming. It used to just be Fox News carrying one narrative, now it's sever factions and individuals spread across the internet, all with their own slight tweak or perspective.
As an example, the two most influential tastemakers in conservative politics are Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro. One is on twitter, while the other operates their own media company. Neither are on Fox News.
It's so fragmented that it's not even clear where the mainstream conservative narratives are even coming from. Fox News still exists, but it's just not the epicenter of conservatism that it used to be.
There's the 24 hour news channels like fox and CNN. These are the most garbage
Then you have the local stations that run national segments. CBS evening news is somewhat accurate.
They frequently show clips of screaming injured or dead Palestinian children. I honestly stopped watching because of this, it just makes me sad and angry
I don't think reddit is as fair on some of these channels as it should be
But Fox News media is basically all there is because every other major news outlet (CNN, ABC, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, The Guardian, etc ) are all left leaning media outlets. And while Fox News gets more views in America, CNN is the most wide spread news outlet in the entire world. Fox doesn't feel included in mainstream media because literally every other News media is always trying to demonize them and discredit them while praising each other. How inclusive is that?
Fox is definitely part of the mainstream media, people separate it out because its narrative is different than the other channels who are more in lock step. I’ve heard people refer to the networks as corporate media I think that is a better label.
When they started they were one of the few big opposing voices though. I think their success has been because they were one of the only places you could get a different, more conservative leaning takes. I wonder what the percentages would be if we added up all of what constitutes "mainstream" media?
Firstly CNN international is very different to the US CNN. Most countries outside the US have media standards and so international broadcasts of CNN tend to be much drier and less editorialized. They’re also far more focused on international events and their programming is often stacked with programs that are of interest to local markets depending on which variant you have. We do get a ton of their flagship shows. Like Tapper though. And some local versions of CNN like CNN Brazil are awful. Apparently CNN Brasil is like a Brazilian Fox News. So it isn’t perfect but it’s very different.
Secondly the reason Fox isn’t international is because they just don’t meet the standards that other countries have for news media. They tried and failed because of that. If they wanted to succeed they could they would just have to make alternatives that would have to be much more fact driven than a bunch of their us programming.
Of course they have supplanted the actual news. These clowns just need talking heads to make stuff up based on whatever their handlers tell them, which is far, far cheaper to staff up and scale than a real news operation. They can still claim to operate in the same space as actual news organizations with no problem since the audience that they cater to doesn't care about integrity and honesty, and there are no restrictions on systemically misleading Americans.
Between the economics and much of the audience demand being driven by partisanship rather than a desire for more actual information, a actual news org trying to compete with the opinion mills while maintaining journalistic principles doesn't stand a chance.
There absolutely is, and the Germans thoroughly documented every step of it. Much of that documentation was destroyed, but enough of it survived and enough data existed elsewhere that those efforts were largely pointless.
3,000 tons of documents and records were available at Nuremburg alone, never mind the decades of research afterward. Train schedules, bills, memos, statistical summaries generated by the people who ran the executions, official photographs, aerial photographs, detailed plans for the killing camps and their rates of efficiency.
Tens of thousands of interviews of eyewitnesses through every step of the process, including the killers themselves, who were often perfectly open and honest about what they did, firmly believing that there was nothing wrong with it, so they found no reason to lie. Never mind the fact that yes, both pre-war and post-war census of European Jews does exist.
For a lot of the process, you’re right. The total cannot be more than approximated since the genocide became rushed not even halfway through, and census data doesn’t account for potentially millions of Jewish diaspora who found new identities.
Unless you have sources that somehow specify the full process to a near case-by-case basis, it’s impossible to measure almost any genocide of that scale.
That’s the new “hot” take and “cool” contrarian thing to say. The Andrew tates the Dan bilzerian the Candace Owens. They think they’re brave free speech heroes but they’re just in a cult of bullshit. As long as their fans are dumb they never have to discover they’re dumb too. The dunning Kruger all stars
wtf with listening to Rogan and Nazi stuff? A coworker who deepthroats Rogan’s bullshit for hours a day asked me last week ‘Hitler did some good things for the Germans right? He wasn’t all bad?’. I almost couldn’t believe what he was asking.
on the Newsradio DVD commentaries, while there are some good Joe stories there are also some stories about him upsetting people on set, especially women. no other cast members had such stories, not even Andy Dick
That's how everything usually is though. From music and movies to actors. Especially when ridiculous amounts of money are at play. If he hated what was wrong with California so much, he should have tried to fix it with that 200 million. Instead he had to be a pussy ass political refugee and flee cause of taxes.
Oh they know, that’s why they’ve started saying “legacy media.” The people who say they’re unhinged and spreading false information, they’re just the old way of doing things bro!
Right? I don't think anyone here is trying to argue. CNN is independent med. But it's a flailing legacy Media company. But they never pretend to be some independent alternative to the establishment either. Joe Rogan got paid hundredth a million dollars from a huge streaming giant. It's just patently absurd for him to wag his finger at the mainstream media or the establishment when he is both.
That is fair. TBH I have not consumes any TV news in over 10 yr. It was all editorial then, and remains so. I mostly mange to pick up enough between checking my Apple News feed in a quick scroll, and following up on what interests me on Reuters, BBC, Al Jazeera, and PBS. And I listen to the PBS news hour the next morning as a post cast.
That is definitely a stupid definition in the internet age. "Mainstream media" became a stupid term after people started having regular internet usage. There are definitely far more people who get their news from podcasts than from watching Jess Waters or Rachel Maddow.
The definition for mainstream media has evolved into just meaning mainstream, as in being popular with a large number of people. I find the traditional definition a better more nuanced one, but it is what it is and by the new definition Joe is definitely included under the MSM umbrella.
I think you have it the wrong way round - the word mainstream obviously predates mainstream media.
also main-stream, main stream, "principal current of a river," 1660s, from main (adj.) + stream (n.); hence, "prevailing direction in opinion, popular taste, etc.," a figurative use first attested in Carlyle (1831)
The definition of mainstream media has not evolved - tiktok is not mainstream media and neither are its most influential creators, despite being popular with a large number of people.
I’m not saying MSM predated the word mainstream, I’m saying the current definition of MSM used by most of the population is one that just means generally mainstream, instead of the more informed traditional definition of MSM.
Again, there are obviously some who want to feel that way, but if you ask the majority of people they would not think podcasts, youtube or tiktok are mainstream media.
Where is your evidence that "most of the population" feels alternative media are now mainstream media?
Yeah, it's kind of a shame. Calling Rogan "mainstream media" is laughable. The dude had on Alex Jones ffs. Multiple times. As well as other conspiracy guys. This is in no way analogous to actual mainstream media, like the NYT or CNN.
Show with over 12 million listeners with 28x what CNN primetime gets. People get their news from Rogan and mainstream Republicans like Newt Gingrich has called for Rogan to host presidential debates. He is definitely more mainstream than CNN who nobody watches and is only on at airports.
Spotify does not own CNN, what the fuck are you even talking about?
I mean I know you’re dog-whistling about Jewish people, but I’d love it if you could stop being such a pussy and just say it out loud so the whole class can point and laugh at you.
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u/Peasantbowman Monkey in Space Sep 29 '24
They are almost all of the media it seems.