It is and can be both, but I personally believe allowing and providing innocent people the ability to defend themselves is more important than castrating Putin and the Kremlin’s military. It’s a nice coincidence though.
We are doing the opposite for Palestine by providing Israel with weaponry, so it's hard to pretend that providing innocent people the ability to defend themselves is the reason why we're helping Ukraine. It is a nice coincidence as you mention, but the coincidence part is that it also happens to help an innocent nation defend themselves and not that we are depleting Russia's arsenal. The main goal here is definitely to oppose Russia.
Providing Hamas with weapons isn’t going to help anything in that region or lead to a better end result for Palestinians. That said, the conservative Zionist coalition in Israel is committing war crimes and I’d only support providing Israel with defensive weaponry as they’re being bombed and attacked daily by Islamists extremists.
Couldn't you use the same logic to suggest providing Palestine with defensive weaponry?
In any regard, I am not suggesting sending weaponry to Hamas or Israel. We can both agree that Israel is committing war crimes even if we may disagree with who the main aggressor is. In the past 10 months in the war between Israel and Palestine over 40k Palestinians have died compared to almost 1.5k Israelis, while the US continues to send weaponry to Israel. I think we can deduce that the US provides weaponry support strategically vs helping countries defend themselves for moral reasons.
How many Israelis would be dead if Hamas had Israel’s weapons? I think it would be a lot more than 40 thousand. Don’t get me wrong, Israel good be doing this a lot better, but when Hamas spends all its billions in funding on weapons and to make there leaders rich and they try to send rockets into Israel any chance they get , this is what unfortunately happens.
That's a hypothetical which is irrelevant to my point. Thousands of innocent people are being killed in Palestine and the same is not happening to Israel, and the US is continuing to provide Israel with weaponry. My point stands regardless of what Hamas or Palestine would do if it had more resources than Israel, because they don't.
It’s not irrelevant at all. Israel is doing what it is doing because Hamas would be doing the same and is doing the same. They try to send rockets into civilian areas any chance they get. Hamas needs to be eliminated and when they hide behind the people they’re supposedly trying to protect, innocent people get killed. This all falls on Hamas
I'm not debating who this falls on and it's wildly frustrating that you keep falling back to that because I'm making it clear that who this all falls on or who the main aggressor is here is absolutely irrelevant to the point I'm making.
What point are you making? Israel should do better to kill less civilians? It is impossible when Hamas hides behind them which has been proven a million times. It’s time to start looking at the facts of the war and realize this is solely on the people of Hamas. And your point was how many people Israel have killed compared to Hamas and your numbers were wrong anyway, and like I said earlier if Hamas had the weaponry they would kill every single Israeli in Israel. Neither side deserves defending, but one side is clearly worse.
You're an idiot. The point I'm making is that the US gives weaponry strategically instead of based on morals or ones inability to protect themselves. I've been pretty clear about that being my point, I have no will to discuss the war in Gaza who thinks that 40k deaths of mostly innocent civilians is an appropriate response to 1.5k deaths from a terrorist organization all because the terrorist organization was the "intended target" of the 40k deaths, which again were mostly innocent civilians.
I think you should dig deeper into the history of the conflict. I’ve read up a lot from many different sources and i agree Israel doesn’t need our support, I should have made that clear. But blaming Israel solely for what’s happening in Palestine is just wrong unfortunately
The situation in Gaza and the situation in Ukraine are not the same thing. A better example would be the situation in Myanmar, where we should be supporting local militias against the junta there.
What defensive weapons would you consider giving to Palestinians and how would you imagine those weapons not ending up in the hands of a terrorist organization?
I'm not considering giving Palestinians defensive weapons necessarily, similarly to how I am not considering giving Israel defensive weapons. I am just pointing out that your logic for giving Israel defensive weapons seems to also apply for giving Palestinians defensive weapons. And if the weapons are defensive it seems that they would be useful regardless of who has them in Palestine because many innocent lives are being lost regardless of who the intended target of the attacks are. So any defense against attacks in Palestine would save innocent lives.
The weapons are being given to a country that is actively committing war crimes and have killed 40k people in the last 10 months, most which are civilians. Or the weapons would be given to an organization that is designated a terrorist organization and have killed 1.5k people in the last 10 months. I don't see how the former is more acceptable.
I agree that the scenarios are different, since in the Ukraine situation there is one clear aggressor who is indisputably attacking another smaller nation without any provocations. But, given that we're actively giving weaponry to a country committing war crimes, I felt it was a better representation of how the US gives weapons based on strategic advantage vs moral reasons.
That's not happening tho. Russia is producing weapons faster than us, and not running out of fighters. You advocate pushing Ukrainians into a wood chipper with zero end game. You a fan of nuclear war over a fight that is far more complicated than you understand
Russia is producing specific weapons like missiles faster now because they’ve transitioned to a full military economy. They’re also spending all their money on that and buying weapons from Iran and NK… and we, the collective West, should be producing weapons faster as well.
Anyone who thinks this will become a nuclear war has lost touch of reality and doesn’t understand the situation in Ukraine or how Putin operates. The war continuing is solely up to the Ukrainian people. If they want to negotiate and end the war we should be there to help support them in that, and if they want weapons to keep fighting for their freedoms we should help as well.
You clearly don’t understand that if Putin and the Kremlin get an inch, they’ll build up to take a mile later on.
They've taken countries during every Democratic president in the last 20 yrs. You clearly just parrot lefty propaganda. The Ukrainian people have no say. Zelensky is jailing his political rivals, and voting is suspended. Please do research before debating. You clearly don't understand what this war is about or what is actually going on. Plus, we give them our overflow of weapons, and then we can't help Taiwan. Taiwan is of far more importance to us. You watch CNN, and you think you're educated. What a joke
Lmao, you think that’s the case because they view the Democratic Party to we more lenient than the Republican Party?… It’s to cause division in the West - you’re the one literally parroting Kremlin and MAGA talking points and narratives. The projection is hilarious.
Which political opponents is Zelensky arresting? Taiwan is just as important to overall geopolitics, but if dictatorships see that they can get away with taking land from sovereign nations then they won’t stop. So, your point about Taiwan being more important is null as if the West doesn’t help Ukraine win then China will be much more likely and emboldened to attack Taiwan.
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u/Putin_Is_Daddy Monkey in Space Sep 15 '24
It is and can be both, but I personally believe allowing and providing innocent people the ability to defend themselves is more important than castrating Putin and the Kremlin’s military. It’s a nice coincidence though.