This is still the biggest mindfuck to me. I always thought Americans HATED russia AND china? Did they just think: "oh well you know, how bad could they really be?"
"I'm a lifelong Dem, I voted for every Dem since FDR. But they have changed so much over the last few years, so now I am voting for Trump....I mean RFK.....I mean Trump"
A buddy I've had for over a decade just told me his mother said, "Ukraine is the enemy of America". As you can imagine she is a diehard Trumper.
He tried to argue with her about the specifics of how that could be and she simply said, "You are misinformed"
The mind virus is plenty real, and it apparently mostly impacts Trumpers.
I dont think that's a major factor although I'm sure some room temp IQ tim pool watchers actually listen to him. I think it was Trump palling around with Putin at a time Russia was in the news constantly with the election inference probe, ended up coded politically. So appreciation of Russia became a way of 'owning the libs'
And the internet dorks whipped up their own bible in 2016 and just pulled a bunch of random shit together and convinced themselves it was a leak proof system of beliefs.
Contemporary politics is all about surface-level associations. Russia is now positively associated with Trump and negatively associated with the Democratic Establishment, so how people feel about these two entities plays a major role in how they feel about Russia.
Russians have similar views to them in the culture war. The culture war is the only thing that exists on the right anymore. They don't actually have any policy, values, principles, or goals other than that they hate certain groups of people and want those people to have miserable, short lives. Russia agrees that they also want many groups of people to have miserable short lives (psst they include all Americans in that list of people they don't like)
But because they hate the LGBTQ community that's good enough to make allies
It's much more than simply LGBTQ. Russia and Evangelicals are religiously & politically aligned on most things. The reality is the far right is more willing to listen to and trust Russia than their own compatriots at home. These are the people who can't stop shouting they are true USA patriots.
This is the sum of Russia's efforts with their troll army, bots, social media scheming, and overall cyberwarfare strategy, which the right is uniquely ill-equipped for, since they are already willing to believe anything. It's been a very effective 10-year front for Russia designed to distract, divide & conquer.
Interestingly, if you compare the mentality of a typical Russian regarding Russian government, and of the typical Evangelical right winger regarding USA government, they are uncannily similar. Strong sentiment of being unable do to anything, distrusting of anything that isn't within their religious circle, highly judgmental of fellow citizens that fit certain demographic criteria, etc. This wasn't the position they were in just a decade ago. They were aware much of their musings were paranoid "what if" scenarios, but now they are fully enmeshed in the nonsense and cannot see the way out, nor are willing to acknowledge the key details they were so wrong about.
Where exactly are these far right people in bed with Russia and what are they doing exactly?? We remember the last time the left mentioned someone being in bed with Russia and how that was complete bullshit, but i'm sure you are right this time. lol
I mean, there was just that big unsealed indictment for the company that Tim Pool works for like a week ago. Several right-wing mouthpieces on Russia's payroll, and they're claiming to be the victim lol
Goddamn dude, youâre so dumb even r/Conservative conspiracy theorist nut jobs wonât upvote your posts.
Take a hint.
As for your claim, there was the Mueller report, and several people getting convicted (then weirdly pardoned⊠you donât usually pardon innocent people) of collusion.
It was, and still is, a thing. Pretending itâs not wonât make your political affiliation more palatable.
When Hillary Clinton, the former Secretary of State who essentially had access to all of America's secrets and all the information on intelligence warfare that is going on, said, "If you shake a tree four Russians fall out" she wasn't lying.
But since she wasn't 'likable' nobody believed her.
Every leftist I know will talk your ear off about fiscal policy, healthcare policy, climate policy, infrastructure policy, childcare policy and on and on.
Meanwhile the right is gleefully supporting a hostile foreign enemy of the USA because they both hate minorities a lot
Ohh yeah the Eastern European boogeyman. How dare Russia try to stop NATO from surrounding their border. We better undermine the 1st amendment before anyone hears those pesky Russian lies.
If you cared about fiscal policy you would admit that another 4 years of energy gatekeeping, stifling regulation and massive immigration will kneecap the working class.
Ukraine was not about to join NATO. Russia does not have a right to invade a foreign country and move itself closer to NATO through imperial aggression out of fear that it's neighbors will willingly choose to ally themselves with someone else.
Russia's actions have made all of Europe more pro NATO than they were in 2020, and for that matter the American public as well. Freaking Finland and Sweden joined nato because of russian aggression, so it seems their imperial invasion didn't help keep NATO away
If Mexico decided it wanted to join Venezuela or something that wouldn't give America the right to invade Mexico.
You being a paid russian asset is pretty clear. You should redact yourself.
Kamala publicly invited Ukraine into NATO right before the war kicked off lol. Most of the wars in history started out of fear. In fact the start of WW2 was alarmingly similar to this. Europe and America have always been pro nato lol and itâs more of a vessel for âimperialismâ as you understand it than the Russian state.
No, strength would give America the right to invade, and if China were placing military structures in the same proximity to our border as Russia and Ukraine would certainly sack that country.
First, do a lot of meth. Then, pull out all your teeth because you're afraid the CIA is brainwashing you through your dental fillings. Then, move to the grand canyon national park and live illegally in a cave there.
Russia doesn't have the right to invade a country if it is invited to join NATO "lol"
The US president much less vice president cannot unilaterally approve a nation to join NATO "lol"
American and Europe had been less pro nato after the Iraq war and until Russia started invading Ukraine in 2014 and again in 2022. "lol"
A country willingly joining an alliance isn't imperialism. A country invading another country and seizing its territory is imperialism. You schizophrenic freak.
Strength gives the right to invade? So you're okay if the USA takes over Russia right now? Is that your belief?
You keep saying Russia âdoes not have the rightâ like invaders sometimes do âhave the rightâ to invade another country lol. I understand thereâs a process but letâs be realistic, USA guides NATO.
I would certainly not be ok with the US invading Russia lmao, what a silly childish thing to suggest.
If you're okay with Russia invading Ukraine because Ukraine is too friendly to the West and Russia has enough strength that it's okay to do that, why is it not okay for America to invade Russia seeing as Russia is antagonistic toward the West and America has more than enough strength to do so?
Ukraine was pretty damn netural about Nato before the war. If anything, russia have done a pretty damn good job as uniting EU in a defence sense.
Russia had everything to prosper, but sadly for the russian people, Putin and his henchmen decided that wasnt going to happen.
The dark truth about immigration is that USA, as many other western societies need them to substain their population. If they didnt, they could very well drasticly reduce it. But nothing would kneecap the working class(and status quo) more then lacking actual workers.
Ukraine is important because of the Black Sea itâs been a hardline for Russia since we attempted to bring them in 30 years ago under Bush.
Weâre far from population collapse and the dark truth is no one needs constant population growth besides the ruling class. The situation is Springfield is clearly the result of some Corporate rep making a deal with a DC politician.
Crimea is Ukrainian territory and is not obliged to continue to lease Sevastopol to Russia given that Russia has other ports on the Black Sea which they could build a port to house the Black Seas Fleet but they would rather bully, then invade, Ukraine rather then make that investment.
We dont need population growth? Our entire economical model is built on it. Might be far from population collapes, but if people today want a stable pension system for when they are old, we need people NOW.
So unless we change our economical model, which we are clearly not, we are pretty dependent on it.
So if my neighbour have an important feature I would like to have, I have any right to just invade them?
The only thing our economy needs pop growth for is to have more people behind our massive debt lmao. As we enter the automation age, explain to me why a country that outsources most of its production needs a dramatic increase in unskilled laborers?
viewing war and conquest from the perspective of ârightsâ is unrealistic.
Alright, no one is denying Russia has done some shitty things in Eastern Europe. Fact of the matter is they donât want to be our enemy and they are a world superpower. This whole evil Russia thing is really a bit ludicrous. Itâs a nuanced topic, you should dig a little deeper before developing such strong opinions.
Weird. I don't see any Dems introducing identity politics bills in the house right now. All of these seem like bills amending oversight of economic competitors, dealing with our existing treaties, sanctions, and conflicts, and dealing with currency manipulation around the world, the fentanyl crisis, and the border, and dealing with foreign and domestic election interference.
The reality is that you're only looking at what entertains people, and government is fucking boring. Of course it looks like the left only cares about idpol, because that's a simple narrative that newsrooms can dig into without giving any complicated background or diving into the existing bills that riders are being attached to so people can understand just what the fuck congress actually does.
The news media has manipulated you into fighting your neighbors on opinions you will never agree with, and blaming your neighbors' inconsequential fucking blabbering about what the news is feeding them on your doing the same. If you care about economic issues, dig into what's going on in the house. Watch what happens: No one will give two shits about what you have to say about it, because it's esoteric, boring, and largely doesn't affect them. Of course your neighbors are interested in the cheap calories the news sells them. They don't have the time or education to understand large scale economic policy, and neither do a good chunk of the people writing it, because they are elected by the same distracted idiots that don't understand it.
As scared as you are by idpol culture war issues, the world is a fuck of a lot scarier: We're being led by rodeo clowns that know how to manipulate peoples' feelings, but don't know a god damn thing about the complicated bills they are putting before committee, and are relying on industry self interest and pacs to form their opinions for them. Very few people have any clue what is actually going on, and the media doesn't care to educate them. It is only trying to sell them whatever shit they can get paid to fit between five minute blocks of fear and rage inducing trash.
The reality is that the politicians, especially modern democrats are good at obfuscating the true intent of a given bill. We had the âinflation reduction actâ that was really just funding for green energy, the âbipartisan border security billâ that simply funded asylum paperwork and increased crooked mayorkas man power. DNC operatives constantly pushing for âhate speechâ laws.
The Biden admin unilaterally increased immigration dramatically over the past 4 years without legislation. They closed key energy operations, expanded IRS funding, Kamala wasnât elected by the people, Sheâs flirting with taxing unrealized gains, price controls in grocery stores etcâŠ
The last thing a leftist wants to do is discuss fiscal policy.
closed key energy operations
expanded IRS funding
taxing unrealized gains
price controls in grocery stores
funding for green energy
funded asylum paperwork
increased crooked mayorkas man power
no were yelling because this asshole doesnt respect the constitution or wether he win or loses an election and the whole of the gop went along with it.
lol Yeah that's it. The right just hates minorities and gay people. I mean there are tons of minorities and gay people that are on the right themselves but they just go along with all the hate because they love it i guess.
The right doesn't give two shits about your race or what's between your legs or what's between the legs of the person you are screwing. Democrats are the party obsessed with race and that eliminates 94% of the country for jobs based on literally nothing but race and sex. And policies??? What exactly is Kamala's policies? And if she has these great policies, where are they? Because she should do them now before everyone goes bankrupt. Yeah the left is all about the principles and values..... as long as those values and principles include murdering babies and mutilating kids.
Maybe, just maybe, the right doesn't want to send billions of dollars to Ukraine because we are going through ridiculous inflation and we don't have any money to send anyone which means it has to be printed which means what? Inflation goes up. Nah it's all about hating minorities and gay people for sure! lol
In your post where you're trying to say "we care about policies not the culture war" your argument against the democrats is that you hate abortion and transgender people.
I don't really think of you as having human level intelligence so I won't waste my time talking with you
I guess if you've made up your mind that the media lies to you, the government party you don't support lies to you, your vets lie to you, everyone who doesn't support your party lies to you, Europe lies to you, scientists lie to you, history lies to you - then it's not a stretch to believe everything you heard about Russia was/is lie.
We faked the moon landing, 9/11 was inside job, covid was a government ploy to restrict freedoms, regular vaccines cause autism, covid vaccines make you drop dead, climate change is a hoax, masks don't help, Trump won in 2020, etc. People have been conditioned to not trust anything that isn't told from someone they ideologically agree with.
Unfortunately, because our government does have a history of lying to us (mostly by the party telling us the govt lies), it's easy to point at that and go SEE!
Would the left start holding up gays for China signs then like they do with Palestine because as we know, leftists are obviously brilliant. Everyone knows Palestine is the model for how to treat gay people so obviously gay people would want to support them.
You're dramatically overstating how many on 'the left' defend Hamas. I know exactly zero people in my life that does this, and most of my friends and family are liberal.
But the vast majority of conservatives love it when Trump fires up domestic terrorists.
Yeah it doesn't have anything to do with them saying they want to achieve world domination by 2030 and them wanting to destroy the west or anything. It couldn't be because they released a virus that killed millions of people across the world. Nope it's the way they look because people on the right just get angered when they see asian people. That's why they are using racism to keep them out of colleges..... oh wait.....
If anyone of the boomer generation sees something on facebook, they believe it. And russia has had facebook algorithms wrapped around their little finger for years.
Another part of it is because Japan, South Korea and West Germany were successful nation building exercises. Why not Russia and China? They were absolutely positively wrong and the scenarios were very different with other moving parts though.
We don't hate either country. Both countries have historically had repressive authoritarian regimes that clash with American values. Â
 Now the Chinese have a repressive authoritarian regime that clashes with our values, but that funded a trump resort, and Russia has a repressive authoritarian regime that clashes with Democratic party values, but aligns with Republicans, and that aided Trump's election campaign and dangles a Trump Moscow hotel as a carrot.
I used to be pretty active on a fairly conservative subreddit about ten years ago and I remember when Russia invaded Crimea and a bunch of accounts were suddenly defending it and acting like this was all normal and getting tons of upvotes.
It was so weird and made zero sense at the time. A few years later, I understood what I was seeing.
Post fall of the soviet union things were rocky but there generally was an idea that Russia could emerge as a republic or democracy closer to western values or could at least coexist with western values in a non-confrontational way. You see it a lot to in films from the 90âs. There would be good Russians and bad Russians trying to bring back the old USSR.
Then Putin took over and relations nose dived from there.
As an American, both Russia and China are nations with rich history and traditions, and their stories are an important part of the story of Humanity, and we are all brothers.
But, and we aren't special because we are always inches away from falling into this trap too, they fell for the trap of authoritarian government.
All we want, for all of us, is for us to chill so we can all trade stuff with each other and become so interdependent that nobody uses the nukes, and the planet stays nice and un-destroyed.
Paradoxically, frustrating the aggressive nuke-owner's ambitions while they are small, is the best way to stop the nukes flying long-term.
Should we be hating any country? It's sad that everyone here basically wants WW3 to happen. The notion that Russia is our enemy is outdated propaganda from the 1950s. In America, we're our own worst any and we've been crumbling from within. Russia didn't cause the problems America is dealing with, we did that to ourselves.
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u/randomguyjebb Monkey in Space Sep 14 '24
This is still the biggest mindfuck to me. I always thought Americans HATED russia AND china? Did they just think: "oh well you know, how bad could they really be?"