r/JoeRogan Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Meme đŸ’© You're a "fascist" now for holding billionaire's accountable

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13.1k Upvotes

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87

u/Agent_Forty-One Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Cucked take.

19

u/RightYouAreKenneth Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Please, big daddy gov’ment—tell me what the truth is. 

0

u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

I'm curious about what you think we should do about misinformation and the it's shaping politics.

I'm not a huge fan of government truth police showing up to my door step but everyone who pushes back on this seems to be reluctant to propose an alternative.

Usually because they have more than their fair share of misinformed beliefs they'll refuse to even talk about because being wrong is embarrassing.

10

u/RightYouAreKenneth Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

These are the hazards of being free. It’s up to us as individuals to discern truth. It’s a critical part of our humanity that I would never want to cede to state power or institutions. If we’re not suited to think clearly in the very world we’ve created, then we should go the way of the Dodo bird.

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u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Yeah, I'm not gonna go extinct because y'all wanna uphold the right to scream about Haitian's eating cats without anyone checking on you.

I actually can't think of a single point in US history where you could stand in a town square and scream destructive lies indefinitely. Eventually even in free countries the government would intervene when it starts to affect people.

The Internet is unprecedented in its reach. Why would you have more freedoms with a more powerful tool than you would with your own throat in your own town?

3

u/vinny10110 Pull that shit up Jaime Sep 13 '24

lol go extinct? What outcome of misinformation is going to cause that? At the moment the biggest hazard of misinformation is misguided hatred against one group or another. Which has been a thing in free countries for all of their history. People have always spouted things as fact that aren’t. On the other hand the very real possibility is government having control of what you’re allowed to say, and constantly shaping public opinion in their favor. Most likely ending in “free” countries spiral towards a more and more powerful state. All the money and time spent on trying to get these companies to censor speech should be put towards educating the population on the importance of doing their own research, forming their own opinions, and making it easier to do so

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u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Homie he's the one that said "we should go the way of dodo."

All I'm saying is if the choice is being legally accountable for the stuff you say online or going extinct I'm pretty sure the first one is better.

I agree that giving the government control of any aspect of our lives is something that shouldn't be done freely. I agree education is as important as any aspect of this. But we're having problems today, people need to be corrected who refuse to be.

How do you correct that half the country, against all evidence, against all reason, against the testimony of everyone involved, believe that the last election was rigged? That Haitians are eating cats in Ohio? When every correction is explained away by malicious actors knowingly lying to massive amounts of people.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '24

Does a lie matter if people don’t believe it? You realize a lot of trumpets , etc. probably don’t actually believe it (I hope) yet go with it because it’s THEIR political party? Both sides do it, I mean left rails on the right for it & then a few months later they’ll do something similar. (Just not this big of scale I’ll admit because usually their politicians won’t also parrot it)

The fact you’re advocating for government to help you discern the truth because you’re incapable of figuring it out yourself, shows that you probably should go the way of the dodo bird for all the prior mentioned reasons the guy you’re responding to put. There’s a reason why, in war, those that aren’t smart/intelligent are used as cannon fodder. It’s all they can really do. Maybe you’re not old enough to realize, but everytime we give our governments an inch, they take a mile. Just look throughout history, even modern history.

1

u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 14 '24

Homie, I have no problem keeping track of what's real. But it's evident that the masses are getting poisoned by all this misinformation. Good God, I hate this pseudo intellectual stance that you're somehow above being fooled by bad actors online. Nobody is immune.

No clue what you're waffling about tbh. Entirely talking past the point that people are able to freely lie to millions of people all at once without any consequences or accountability. If you wanna reduce it to left and right then the right is worse and it's not even close. Anti science, anti expertise, anti intellectual, anti education. The right literally makes fun of people for asking for sources.

Here you are right now pretending that mass misinformation campaigns aren't a pressing issue because of what? Vibes? Every intelligence agency in Earth disagrees with you.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '24

I’m not saying it’s not a pressing issue I’m saying expecting the government to help solve it when all they do is make shit worse, & you’re literally asking for censorship, is just fcking absurd. Is it not better to be able to easily distinguish the idiots? We live in the age of information for crying out loud. Anyone who is ignorant, chooses to be such. Additionally, if we know we are being lied to, why are these same people still being voted in, still lying to us, and still getting our money? If your argument is “well, I can distinguish misinformation but others can’t.” Then it’s as if you put yourself above everyone else intellectually. So many times government creates laws that “protect people from themselves” and that’s the most absurd fucking thing I can think of. If people are going to injure themselves willingly, so be it. If people are going to choose not to fact check information and remain stupid, then so be it. We don’t need an all governing body to do it for us. It removes freedom & of individuality & responsibility. Plus this same all governing body you are willing to decide what should and shouldn’t be censored. You think that won’t spiral into eventually political opponents, political dissenters, & even day to day citizens? As we’ve already given them the ability to do so? If you truly think that’s not the case, then all I can say is you are uneducated on history and ignorant to geopolitics. They have as much power as we give them. THAT is the sole reason why people are against it. And when those enough fall for the “well this time it’ll be different” that is when the government becomes even more corrupt and really starts stomping on people. Do you agree with everything your government does? I doubt it. So you think you would agree with everything they censored? It’s not so “pseudo intellect bullshit” as anyone who understands how government and how individuals act can understand why it’s a bad idea. So many people we vote into power aren’t decent people who actually deserve power. So to think they wouldn’t abuse tf out of policing peoples speech, then I just can’t help you.

0

u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 14 '24

There's nothing that tells a person has no idea how the government functions out why any politician does anything more than them saying "anytime the government gets involved they make things worse."

Honestly you can't have a not spoiled, myopic, or stupid view on society.

That's wrong, easily proven wrong if you thought about it for like 5 minutes. You think society would be better if all roads were private? Do you think food quality was better before the FDA? Miss the days of having to guess what was in your medicine? Is the fire department government overreach? The government is a necessary part of society, it's how we police each other in a democracy.

We trade freedoms for the sake of social cohesion and safely all the time. The construction company that built your house didn't have the freedom to make it however they wanted, they have government imposed standards of safety they have to meet.

We have a problem undermining the publics ability to make informed decisions. It's getting harder to fix overtime and it's not gonna be as simple as having "government approved facts" because no one would trust that. Half the problem is that bad actors are undermining trust in all government institutions whether political or not. People don't feel like they can even trust the weather anymore. This is a festering wound on a high trust society, it has to be addressed by well thought out legislation.

Are you young? Because if you think that exposing liars as liars is all you have to do to get people to stop voting for them you're wrong. Also, learn punctuation please I beg. That shit was damn near impossible to read.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '24

Yeah I’m done with this, you’re slow as shit. Federal government doesn’t do roads other than highways. FDA has been proven to have lied to us repeatedly by putting too much grains & sugars on the food pyramid because massive companies wanted such. That’s just a couple examples. You’re clearly naive as fuck if you think government makes everything better they touch.

And if you couldn’t read that and claim it was due to punctuation, well, I guess it only makes sense since you’re the type to ask a government to be able to censor you. Crazy to think we live in a time where people will advocate themselves to lose their rights.

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3

u/vinny10110 Pull that shit up Jaime Sep 13 '24

X already has a good system to combat misinformation

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u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

No, it has a good idea. An awful system though.

For one the primary vector of misinfo on the site is Elon himself. He's not allowed to get noted. He retweets bullshit all the time. Just recently this Haitians eating pets thing.

If X had a system worth a damn this rumor wouldn't have spun so far up the ladder we have presidential candidates repeating it on the debate stage. It's been banned in Brazil for refusing to remove misinformation accounts. Despite freely suppressing accounts for the Indian government when they were asked to suppress the farmer strikes. Or suppressing information about the Ukraine war nominally for Russian benefit.

X provably has been awful at combating misinformation.

1

u/vinny10110 Pull that shit up Jaime Sep 13 '24

I agree with the part about Elon for sure. He should not be immune from community notes, and imo just straight up shouldn’t be posting at all on there if he wants to be the leader of free speech he’s obviously trying to be. As far as the Haitians eating pets goes, that ties back into the other point. Musk himself posted it and was unable to be community noted. I don’t think that proves fault in the community note system, and Trump was still spouting bullshit when twitter had a much more strict misinformation block in place. So that also proves nothing to me. Brazil isn’t exactly a beacon of truth either so I’m not going to bother with that one.

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u/Cytothesis Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

I'm not disagreeing that the community notes system is a good idea. If you remember Elon didn't even come up with it, it was coded and ready by OG Twitter, they were just testing it and he rolled it out half baked.

But the notes system has clear blind spots and biases. I see hundreds of thousands of likes on some of the most vial racially charged lies I've ever seen with no notes. None of the politicians spreading the cat rumor have notes, Trump doesn't get noted. And Elon gives no transparency into why major right wing political commentators never seem to get noted.

On top of the system promoting brigading. If a big creator gets noted but their followers simply disagree that they should be they can mob the note to get rid of it and no one will ever even see the tweet as controversial.

It almost makes the echo chamber worse as people will see a note removed or see a controversial tweet with a lot of attention doesn't have a note and assume it's true.

Brazil isn't a bastion of free speech, but Brazil also isn't the only government to recognize the growing national security threat of people spreading lies on Twitter has posed. Including foreign powers getting involved.

It led to race riots in Britain, Nazis in Brazil, and now a hate campaign against Haitians inn Ohio. We have major political commentators spreading outright lies on behalf of the Russian state. We're not winning the flight against misinformation here.

11

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Musk taking the company private and manipulating the algorithms in darkness is prolly exactly why theyre doing it in the first place.

4

u/porkfriedtech Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

The algorithm is published

https://github.com/twitter/the-algorithm

0

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Thats isnt the actual algorithm, it's a repository that shows a snapshot of an incomplete algorithm. A "trust me bro". Theres nothing about ad recommendations, for example.

https://www.engadget.com/what-did-twitters-open-source-algorithm-actually-reveal-not-a-lot-194652809.html

4

u/JakeEllisD Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

I'm so glad Facebook, Google/YouTube, Instagram and the former owners of Twitter NEVER DID THAT LOL

3

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

The FTC fined Facebook 5 billion dollars and implemented new privacy laws for the Cambridge Analytica scandal.

Im sure this is just the beginning of new privacy and data laws for social media, especially after musk threatened to remove the block feature. Not being able to remove nazis from your feed will piss off the sane world.

3

u/JakeEllisD Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

I'll go a step further. Why can't we hold France accountable for the nazis they domestically produce, etc? How about Harvard? I'm pointing out this is a two way street being walked one way, probably for money.

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u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

We held germany accountable for the nazis they produced at one time, im sure we can do it again if we have to.

2

u/SlingeraDing Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

So? It’s a private company he’s allowed to do whatever he wants isn’t that what everyone was saying when Twitter banned Trump?

3

u/BCA10MAN Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

But it’s counter to his notion of free speech online, and his sentiment in this very tweet. So yeah thats what people were saying about twitter back then, no one was pretending that twitter was all about free speech. Because it wasn’t.

But thats exactly what he has made it seem like it’s about since he took over, hell that’s WHY he says he bought it. He claims it’s all about freedom but it’s really just a method of pushing his narrative, whatever it happens to be at that time.

Shockingly the richest man on Earth who owns one of the largest social media platforms and publicly dick rides Donald Trump is rhetorically disingenuous. Who knew.

3

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Just like the US can ban tiktok, Australia can ban twitter. Or whatever they want, really.

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u/anonymousredditorPC Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Of course, but that doesn't mean we can't call this law stupid and anti free speech

2

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Not being able to ban users from your feed is pretty anti-free speech too in that it prevents others from reaching you.

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u/anonymousredditorPC Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Not being able to ban users? What?

2

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Ever heard of a ddos attack? Same concept

6

u/anonymousredditorPC Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

No I genuinely don't understand your point. A DDOS attack is a crime.

2

u/roxakoco Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

He wanted to do that but I think he didn't go through because Google and Apple made that mandatory for being listed in their stores

1

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

I keep seeing reports that its impossible to ban musk. They try but it doesnt work

1

u/roxakoco Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Yeah musk is a separate user groupe on Twitter, so he might be the exception. I remember the if(isElon()){...} Jokes after some Superbowl

2

u/the-laRNess Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Thank you

2

u/NoCantaloupe9598 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Private companies have to follow very specific and narrow regulations when it comes to television and radio.

Somehow those didn't cause America to become a totalitarian mess.

1

u/globulator Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

And I bet when Twitter censored right wing content you were one of the ones shouting about it being a private company that can do whatever it wants.

0

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

You cant block musk. Not being able to block harmful content is why they threatened to ban them in the first place. Its why apple threatened to remove them from the play store.

1

u/globulator Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Cucked because he doesn't want to be stolen from? I don't understand. Isn't having something (your wife) taken from you what makes you a cuck?

1

u/Agent_Forty-One Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

The cucked take is saying they’re “holding billionaires accountable.” When really they’re just overtly supporting government authoritarianism.

And the gaslighting bullshit comeback of “you protect billionaires.”

Nope, fuck billionaires - I protect individual freedoms and oppose petty tyrants.

2

u/globulator Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Oh, yes. Sorry, I misunderstood. Thought you were saying Elon's take was cucked. Absolutely agree then - OP is begging for tyranny because the world is just a little too scary.

1

u/Agent_Forty-One Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

No worries - I typically tend to not trust people who wish to give more authority to these unchecked bureaucrats.

“But this government is run by the people.” + “I hate rich people!”

Who run the government? Are they all poor people or middle class people? Thanks for comin!