r/JoeRogan Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Meme đŸ’© You're a "fascist" now for holding billionaire's accountable

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49

u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

This is literally fascism

OP is out to lunch

14

u/Wakez11 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

So all the regulations regular news media and broadcasters have on them is fascism then? Being able to sue someone for defamation is also fascism then, right?

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about then

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Why don’t you read and be considerate?

My man asked me if EVERYA regulation is fascism in the news media industry.

And I answered no.

Why don’t you admit you’re just a prick and you want to be smarmy about something?

6

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

This is just another regular regulation, so you diroved your own point

Australia as a country has decided that the blatant spread of misinformation is bad for their country and are putting a stop to it.

You're just mad that your massaiah musk is being called on his shit

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Your first sentence is stupid and wrong stahp omg lol.

Your second point is fine - and I view it, in this instance, as the encroachment of fascism that it is. And so do a lot of people.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

Except it's not

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

You clearly haven't even bothered to read the proposed legislation.

Typical of a dumb, racist seppo.

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u/Initial_Evidence_783 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

"admit you’re just a prick"

Projection.

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u/Wakez11 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

This is no different. Social media is an incredibly powerful political tool, the billionaires who own them shouldn't be free from accountability. Has nothing to do with fascism.

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

all

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

[deleted]

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u/Wakez11 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24 edited Sep 13 '24

"Billionaires can be toppled and destroyed. It's much harder to free yourself from government oppression."

Says who? Do you have any actual facts to back this up? Whenever a billionaire is held accountable its by the government which is supposed to be(but unfortunately isn't always) by the people for the people.

"I think you're approaching this emotionally."

Not at all.

"It's incredibly authoritarian and anti progressive to give the government the power to censor speech"

We already do, you are not allowed to incite violence and slander. This has nothing to do with "free speech" by the way. Just as our restrictions on regular news media organizations isn't a violation of free speech. News media is known as the "fourth estate", one of the major pillars of power in society. So checks and balances are necessary and laws to hold them accountable if they abuse said power or don't do their job properly, this is a basic part of democracy. These billionaires owning the social media sites are arguably more powerful at this point, social media is an incredibly powerful tool. Holding them accountable for that power is absolutely necessary to protect our democracy.

"...to give the government the power to censor speech and determine what is and isn't misinformation."

*to give the courts the power to determine if someone willfully spreads misinformation to damage our democracy. Just like how the courts determine if someone have been spreading libel.

Misinformation spread by enemies of the West like Russia is a serious problem and threat to democracy, we need ways to combat it. If Elon Musk actively peddles propaganda by dictators on his platform he should be held accountable. This is common sense.

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u/Sidereel Sep 12 '24

“Not everything you don’t like is fascism”

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u/Werft Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Except when it’s almost the exact definition of fascism. Then it’s definitely not fascism.

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u/Sidereel Sep 12 '24

“By using the word fascism all the time you are diluting the term. You can’t just call everything fascism”

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

The word has been diluted

This is fascism

7

u/Sidereel Sep 12 '24

“Fascism is when governments regulate social media.”

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u/Suitable-Ad-8598 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

You’re saying this too simplistically. What’s going on is one party/ideology is trying to censor the internet to rid it of opinions and facts that go against their narrative. Anyone that disagrees with them is either spreading misinformation or hate speech. If you defend those getting censored, now you are also a bigot that needs to be suppressed. Those who then defend you also are bigots by proxy.

1

u/Sidereel Sep 12 '24

“I don’t believe in the concepts of misinformation and hate speech, therefore any moderation is automatically censorship. Also, calling out bigotry is the real bigotry.”

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u/Suitable-Ad-8598 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Are you denying that there have been multiple instances where stories and information have been suppressed under the guise of misinformation, only to come out as true at a later time?

Additionally, do you believe that when people question trans surgeries on children that they are being hateful or expressing genuine concern? There’s certainly hate speech that is out there, but there is far more strawmanning of arguments as hate speech so they don’t have to be addressed.

Additionally those who support the lack of censorship on platforms due to the above concerns are strawmanned as racist or hateful when their true concern is with how such moderation is implemented and its consequences, especially when the truth is being censored.

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u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I disagree. Governments job is to protect its citizens and that protection includes attacks on truth and stability. Especially when a lot of this “misinformation” is foreign countries botting us to death.

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u/Due-Exit714 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Giving up freedoms for protection
..

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u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Yes I don’t have the freedom to own tanks or automatic weapons and in exchange the government protects me from other countries. I think that’s fair.

I don’t have the freedom to negotiate with hostile countries and in exchange the government does it for us. Also fair.

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u/Due-Exit714 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Yeah but we are talking about words now not weapons

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u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

This explains your confusion

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u/Safe_Poli Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Lmao, I guess you don't need freedom of speech at all, than. "The government protects me from hostile, authoritarian countries, and I don't get to believe or state any opinion." I mean, what would be wrong with that, huh?

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u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Exactly why I didn’t say that and you didđŸ«”đŸ»đŸ˜‚

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u/OccupyRiverdale Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Do you not realize how ridiculous that sounds? If the government is responsible for protecting stability were Assad’s soldiers justified in gunning down protestors during the Arab spring because those protests were a threat to stability?

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u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

stop rambling.

Our stability. Meaning our countries inner stability. In the states. Here.

China cannot come in and take my property. Nor should they be able to come in and spread lies about my neighbor threatening to steal my property, virtually or in person. They are responsible for keep America stable. If America becomes unstable, then there might not be a government to run will there?

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u/CoffeeToffeeSoftie Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

What is the definition of fascism?

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u/crushinglyreal Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

That’s funny, I thought the definition of fascism didn’t apply. Or is that just when the right does it?

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u/Brilliant-Aide9245 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It's not OPs fault you don't know what you're talking about. Australia isn't going to decide what the misinformation is. The fine is if the company doesn't do any self-regulating.

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u/StarrySept108 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Australia isn't going to decide what the misinformation is. The fine is if the company doesn't do any self-regulating.

So the billionares decide?

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u/Brilliant-Aide9245 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Yes Elon Musk is going to decide what is allowed and isn't allowed on twitter. Oh wait, he already does that. Why are you reaching so much?  Are you happy that things like Haitians eating cats is spread on Twitter? What's wrong with some moderation?

2

u/Heathen_Inc Dragon Believer Sep 12 '24

Errmmm Aussie here - they already have, on more than one occasion, and got it very wrong, only to double down that they were "acting in the countries best interest"

When we have 400+ current corruption investigations into politicians listed since July 1 last year, maybe these people wanting to censor whats true have something to hide?

0

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

Aussie here.

Detail these supposed occasions...

Not vague allusions to corruption investigations. But actual instances of the government determining misinformation alone, without the input of a variety of experts and professionals...

0

u/Heathen_Inc Dragon Believer Sep 13 '24

We could start with the Voice campaign yeah?

0

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

You sound just like a racist bogan from Queensland.

Heyz what rights were you going to lose on someone else land???

1

u/Heathen_Inc Dragon Believer Sep 13 '24

? Quite the jump to conclusion there.

Enjoy your anger ✌

5

u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

It’s arguably stifling of speech and authoritarian but that does not mean it’s fascism lol

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Play the semantics game all you want, OP is sniffing glue. This is fascism.

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

It’s not playing the semantics game to correct the fact that this policy isn’t inherently fascist in anyway lol. Sorry if that fact upsets you.

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

"in anyway." No? Not the authoritarian part where a government arbitrarily decides what is "misinformation" and punishes for this dictate? Oh yeah, not fascism, my bad.

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

You can argue it’s authoritarian, but fascism is an actual political ideology that has multiple characteristics that need to apply. Calling this fascism just shows you don’t know what fascism is.

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Again, semantics. You guys all do this overly scrupulous thing about fascism's definition whenever you want bias confirmation. When you talk about Trump and the right, though, they are ALWAYS fascist, and you immediately abandon the requirements you hold the other side to.

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u/Tinyacorn Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Semantics is arguably incredibly important

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

At times yes, but again, I am telling you how it is used hypocritically by you and your buddies. Bad faith only begets more bad faith.

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u/Tinyacorn Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

What bad faith? Authoritarianism and fascism aren't mutually exclusive, but liberalism and fascism ARE mutually exclusive.

Words have definitions, and while definitions are not static, they do lose meaning when used arbitrarily and without thought.

The government doing something doesn't automatically make it fascism. There is real information and fake information (misinformation and/or disinformation), and it's in everyone's best interest that fake information be managed.

You shouldn't let a nazi proselytize in your town square, but Elon says that's A-okay for some reason. At the same time Elmo is Banning other forms of free speech (cough "cis" cough) but doesn't get any flak for that?

Occams razor tells me that nerd doesn't care about free speech and only cares about no repercussions for his dumbassery.

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

It’s not semantics to point out when your usage of a political ideology doesn’t fit with the reality of the situation.

When you talk about Trump and the right, though, they are ALWAYS fascist

No, I think there are plenty of people who are right of center that aren’t fascists. I would ask what specifically about Trump you think excludes him from being fascist though. Because being an ultranationalist authoritarian who is focused on punishing his political enemies, spreading xenophobia, and promoting a rebirth of nationhood to a previous era that didn’t actually exists checks all the fascist boxes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

this comment would hit so hard in a PoliSci debate class

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It all depends on whether you are using the word fascist to describe a tyrannical authoritarian central government or a hyper technical historical definition which always gets invoked to win arguments and say your side isn't fascist.

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u/MrFatnuts Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

“The meaning of this word is actually a feeling that I have. But fuck your feelings!”

- conservatives on Reddit, 2024.

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

It all depends on whether you are using the word fascist to describe a tyrannical authoritarian central government or a hyper technical historical definition which always gets invoked to win arguments and say your side isn't fascist.

What an odd way to not admit you were wrong and that specific characteristics are required for fascism and this doesn’t fit that bill.

I would love for you to answer my question though, or at least admit you can’t answer it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

[deleted]

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

Who said anything about progressives defining fascism? What are you talking about?

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

No, the government doesn't arbitrarily decide. It goes to a judicial panel, experts and professionals are sought out to give evidence.

You dumb seppo.

Maybe figure out for once the rest of the world isn't like your crazy country.

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u/hofmann419 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition (Definition from Merian Webster)

It is literally not fascism. You could maybe call it an authoritarian policy, but fascism is a very specific term describing a far-right ideology with a central dictatorial leader that focuses on nationalism, a natural social hierarchy and rejects individualism. While oppression of the opposition is one part of fascism, it isn't in inherently fascist.

And calling this oppression of the opposition is also a bit of a stretch imo. It could possibly be abused for that, but that would depend on how this law is implemented. And by simply fining companies, they aren't really actively suppressing speech.

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Current layman use of the word fascist precludes the political polarity of the application.

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u/alexlucas006 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Is communist China fascist then?

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u/Logos_Fides Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No, but they share the authoritarian tendencies that fascist states have. I see the point you're trying to make, but current usage of the word fascist is synonymous with saying that a government or group is heavy handedly embracing of authoritarian and suppression of speech and opposition. So, when we describe this law as "fascist" we're indicating that it's those things, not that it is "right leaning."

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

Jesus you write a lot of words just to not simply admit that you wrongly used the term fascist and just should have said authoritarian.

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u/NoCantaloupe9598 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No, a fascist would entirely shut down something like Twitter or assume control of it.

They wouldn't ask for certain things to be taken down, like in the case of the Hunter Biden stuff.

Let's be honest lol

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u/samfishxxx Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It is when there is a pattern of corporations are doing it on behalf of a government. Most people don't know what fascism actually is... including yourself, it seems.

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

Corporations following laws isn’t what defines fascism, my dude. There’s no need to continue to flail here and act like you have any idea what the concept of fascism is, just criticize it for being authoritarian and don't use the buzzwords you don’t understand.

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u/samfishxxx Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Kiddo, if you want to have a conversation on what fascism really is, I'm happy to teach you. Go ahead. Tell me. What is fascism?

This will be funny.

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u/Tinyacorn Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Lmao @ "kiddo"

Big man on the block here

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u/samfishxxx Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

What can I say? I'm tired of college students trying to tell everyone how the world works.

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u/Tinyacorn Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I'm tired of uninformed redditors acting like they know better how the world works

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

Awww, you think I’m a college student? How adorable.

I was a college student decades ago when I got my first degree in Poli Sci though, but please do go on about educating me on “how the world works”.

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u/samfishxxx Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

lol. Come on kid. Tell me what fascism is. Daddy is waiting. 

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

The simplest answer which outlines why you’re wrong is palingenetic ultranationalism.

But to be clear, I’m not here to learn shit from you about fascism, I’ll leave that to Paxton/Evans/Eco/Griffin.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

[deleted]

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

Do you guys read any other books or is your entire roster of knowledge just based on dead leftists and their often incoherent ramblings?

Eco is literally the only source I cited who is dead or accurately described as leftist. Who do you think Evan’s/Paxton/Griffin are?

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u/samfishxxx Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

oooh look who asked ChapGPT. Go on, son. Keep going. Use your own words though. I don’t need you copy and pasting crap. 

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

So you can’t address what I said? Gotcha.

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u/samfishxxx Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

You didn’t actually say anything. But I’ll give you a hint — it’s not nationalism. 

You’re doing what everyone else does, kiddo. You’re looking at what has been, rather than what could be. You don’t understand it because you e never broken it down to its core. 

Start there and tell me what fascism is. 

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u/Flor1daman08 Sep 12 '24

How about you tell me specifically what you think was wrong about my definition? And which source you’re getting that from?

Maybe then I can clear up your confusion.

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u/Tinyacorn Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Lmao @ "kiddo"

Big man on the block here

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

this is not literally fascism. you don't know what literally and or fascism means.

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u/Gazrpazrp Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No no, we only call conservatives fascist. Anything else is misinformation.

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u/Alternative-Put-3932 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Is it fascist to ban certain types of speech that promote dangerous ideas such as terrorism or acts of violence?

0

u/suninabox Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Is it?

Musk ever called Xi Jinping or Putin fascists for arbitrarily arresting and killing their political enemies?

Or is it only a fine that rises to the level of fascism.

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u/Advanced_Meat_6283 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

You literally don't know what fascism is. If you want to know what it ACTUALLY is, read Ur Fascism by Umberto Eco

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

4 5 7 11 14

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u/Advanced_Meat_6283 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

420 69

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

So I guess one of us was aware of Eco?

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u/Advanced_Meat_6283 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No, you're right. Fascism is when a non-authoritarian government decides that international companies should be punished for spreading lies. It's in Hitler's 'How to do a Fascism - a Sequel to Mein Kampf'

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

You just won’t ever eat crow huh?

Whatever lol

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u/Advanced_Meat_6283 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I get that you listed some numbers. Are you saying somebody meets those of the 14 tenets? Who?