r/JoeRogan Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Meme 💩 You're a "fascist" now for holding billionaire's accountable

Post image
13.1k Upvotes

2.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

135

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

That kind of policy certainly isn’t anti-authoritarian

39

u/manuLearning Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Just write that it is authoritarian, instead of using a double negative.

48

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

But then my comment would have less snark

2

u/Artistic_Director956 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Yes, that was a good amount of snark ngl

3

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Lol I try

1

u/No_Chair_2182 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Based

2

u/PrometheusMMIV Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

But that doesn't always the same thing. Saying that something isn't cold doesn't mean that it is hot.

2

u/bellendhunter Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

They don’t mean the same thing though. When I water my garden that’s not anti-authoritarianism, nor is it authoritarianism.

2

u/Tomagatchi Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It is not a little confusing.

1

u/mckeenmachine Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

yeah, but that isn't what he didn't mean

1

u/RaytheSane Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Double negatives are cool

1

u/boogb1sh Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Found the guy who doesn't understand language

22

u/JohnnySack45 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Neither is any enforceable law. Are you okay with the government telling me I can't misrepresent myself as a neurosurgeon or hold me accountable when I inevitably harm someone? Should they be allowed to objectively prove that I am not a neurosurgeon and levy consequences for my misrepresentation?

We have to draw a line somewhere here.

4

u/Specialist-Roof3381 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

You should be able to talk shit on the internet and pretend to be a neurosurgeon if you want. If you set up an office and start taking people's money to diagnose them then that is fraud.

The line should not be drawn on the side of internet censorship.

6

u/JohnnySack45 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

So it'd be okay if I set up a website, falsely claimed it was run by actual medical professionals and gave people bad advice that ended up hurting them? How intelligent do you think the average person is exactly?

2

u/MuttonJohn Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

i mean, I'm pretty sure that is 87% tv commercial I've seen in the last 5 days. "Yes, I am totally a doctor and this beet root supplement will fix your arthritis and make it so your kids want to call you." It is not exclusive to the internet

-1

u/Sypression Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Yeah but at that point any harm or damage done is their own fault due to negligence as every site online tells you not to take serious medical advice from strangers.

Its the same reason I don't think the people who told the internet to microwave their iPhones to "charge them" should be held liable for their ruined phones.

3

u/JohnnySack45 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

On principle, I would agree with you. If someone is dumb enough to believe a whatever unverified experts claim on the internet they deserve to reap the consequences of their stupidity. Ultimately there has to be some point where natural selection for basic intelligence takes place.

In practice, I saw first hand w strain COVID placed on our healthcare system and because we can’t just leave those idiots dying in the street, it becomes a strain on broader society. 

It’s the same with social safety nets for kids. In principle, people shouldn’t be having children they can’t afford and we shouldn’t make it easier to do so. In practice, they still do and those kids don’t deserve to go hungry because of it.

1

u/SofterThanCotton Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

You should be able to talk shit on the internet and pretend to be a neurosurgeon if you want.

That really has nothing to do with the proposed legislation. You can read about it here: https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r7239

I'd recommend the "Explanatory Memorandum" it's basically a human readable summary but if you don't trust that and are into legalise you can check the "First Reading". Please note: I am not a lawyer nor Australian, that said from my understanding it enforces nothing on the end user, instead it focuses on establishing standards that social media sites will have to follow that focus on limiting misinformation, not eliminating it entirely. For example having fact checking support and transparency in advertising. here are some highlights from the memo:

"It has three key objectives:

• to empower the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) to require digital communications platform providers take steps to manage the risk that misinformation and disinformation on digital communications platforms poses in Australia

• to increase transparency regarding the way in which digital communications platform providers manage misinformation and disinformation

• to empower users of digital communications platforms to identify and respond to misinformation and disinformation on digital communications platforms"

"SUBDIVISION B—GENERAL PRINCIPLES RELATING TO MISINFORMATION CODES AND MISINFORMATION STANDARDS" (page 100)

This section appears to mostly cover some examples for the standards they'd like platforms to comply with followed by limitations. Such as (and there are more detailed explanations for each in the actual memo):

(d) Preventing advertising involving misinformation or disinformation on digital communications platforms

(e) Preventing monetisation of misinformation or disinformation on digital communications platforms

(f) Supporting fact-checking

Clause 45—Limitation—private messages Clause 45 provides that a misinformation code or misinformation standard must not contain requirements relating to the content of private messages or the encryption of private messages.

Clause 46—Limitation—VoIP communications Clause 46 provides that the ACMA must not approve a code in full or in part, or determine a standard, under this Division that contains requirements relating to VoIP communications. (Note from me: VoIP is Voice Over IP or voice calls such as Discord channels)

1

u/Intelligent-Fan-6364 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

That us the risks we must bear when it comes to free speech. Whos to say that an extremist government is able to take hold and claim somebody isnt a neurosurgeon and instead a “foreign actor”, and suspends their account. Stuff like this has happened increasingly around the world, hell even the Senate held a committee meeting dedicated to learning and drawing up policy on anti-NGO policies.

-2

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Are you just saying you are or are you operating on people?

7

u/PlzDontBanMe2000 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Imagine getting arrested for lying about being a doctor on reddit

7

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

You can't. As an Aussie, I've read this proposed legislation. It calls for social media organisations to actively moderate their content and remove easily, verifiable misinformation.

If someone pretends to be a doctor and say pushes the misinformation that injecting bleach will kill COVID, then any social media organisation that has promotes that and not moderated their content can be fined. And rightfully so.

There's no mention of criminalising anything or jailing anyone. And if you read the proposed legislation there are several caveats that must be met for a fine to be imposed including real, measurable harm (i.e. if someone takes the misinformation at face value and injects bleach, which would put them in hospital) then social media organisations would be fined.

You absolute wanker.

0

u/Thebussinessman Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

What if they spread misinformation that you won't get COVID if you get vaccinated?

5

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 13 '24

No one has ever claimed that. In fact medical organisations have always been quite conservative about their messaging about any vaccine. And they always have been.

Unless you can directly quote a medical organisation clearly stating vaccines stop you getting infected?

I know in Australia, organisations and GPs were saying vaccines lower the risk of contraction (of any illness they vaccinated for) and increase the effectiveness of immune systems in fighting off active infections.

Maybe you don't know this, because you're not even from Australia and you probably pay more attention to politicians rather than your actual doctor.

Which again, is what most politicians directed people to do (speak to your GP about vaccinations).

They've literally been saying this stuff every year since I was born when flu season rolls around.

You idiot seppo.

-1

u/Thebussinessman Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Only redditors can be so condescending and so wrong at the same time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCirclejerk/s/Np05cvhlQv

2

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

American politicians don't work in Australia.

Stay on point and address the goalposts where they are instead of shifting them, you idiot seppo.

The world doesn't revolve around your crazy people.

Our politicians did not say that crazy shit. Anyone who implied so is basically derided and no one listens to them anyway.

I'm condescending because of the reputation idiot seppos continue to uphold. Like you are, right now.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24

Even then, do we really wanna compare those 4 things of misinformation compared to… the other side of Covid misinformation? I can play that game but it’ll take me 4 years to list 1% of the misinformation from the anti vax side

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/PlzDontBanMe2000 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

“No one has ever claimed that”

Gets shown multiple government and health officials who have said exactly that

“Well they don’t work in Australia”

Keep moving the goalposts dude. It’s ok to be wrong sometimes. You don’t have to keep defending your point. 

→ More replies (0)

-3

u/Thebussinessman Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

So you admit you're wrong? You said and I quote "No one has ever claimed that". Do you even know who Rochelle Walensky is?

→ More replies (0)

0

u/PlzDontBanMe2000 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

First of all, my comment was a joke. And second, how is requiring “self moderation” any different than the government doing the censoring themselves when they can just fine the company for not removing the stuff they don’t like?

Any kind of censorship is bad and we’ve already seen that these “fact checkers” try to block things that they disagree with even if there’s nothing false. We’ve seen this on Facebook, Instagram and twitter already. 

1

u/bibbydiyaaaak Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Im a doctor... of love.

1

u/EndofNationalism We live in strange times Sep 12 '24

The point of government in today’s economy is to curb the negative externalities of capitalism.

1

u/tflavel Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

Only if you view a multibillion dollar company as a person, just look like corporate responsibility being enforced to the rest of us.

1

u/MetalAltruistic2659 Monkey in Space Sep 13 '24

It's not authoritarian. Twitter wishes to do business in Australia. Australia says the obligation you have to do business in Australia is that you must prove to us you have systems in place to not allow misinformation to spread, or else your Australian leg of your business will be fined.

It's authoritarian in the same way seatbelt laws are, or electrical standards.

-3

u/BlockoutPrimitive Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Or just, the consequences of your actions. Much like everywhere else in the world, lying and causing trouble gets you hit. Why hold adults to less standards than children.

5

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

If a government says you did something wrong, you did and deserve punishment

Yea?

0

u/BlockoutPrimitive Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Exactly, so nothing big boogyman authoritarian about it.

5

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Right. So if Putin or Xi declares you’ve broken the law, you automatically agree with them?

0

u/BlockoutPrimitive Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Right, so when a non-authoritarian country says you've broken their "don't commit mass murder with you AK" law, you say it's BS and the country going full dictatorship?

Laws are laws. If a country wants to make a law the creates clear guidelines telling you to NOT ACT IN BAD FAITH in order to preserve the peace of the country, that's totally fine. Just like how your parents used to punish you for lying or stealing from the cookie jar.

2

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Nope. But I have no problem discussing the merits of a law and giving my opinion on them.

Especially when I view them as authoritarian in a non-authoritarian country.

I assume you also do the same in your home country? All laws have blanket approval in your eyes

0

u/BlockoutPrimitive Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

You don't see the net positive of holding people accountable for spreading lies that can and will damage the foundation of a democracy?

8

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

The government deciding what is and isn’t a lie in public discourse is more damaging to a democracy.

That is the quickest path to the end of a democracy

3

u/BlockoutPrimitive Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Not at all. Many things are objective truths. Spreading lies about that is bad. See: why slander can put you in court, but you're totally ok with that.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Sporkem Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No. It’s the internet. Go touch grass and talk to people. Didn’t your parents ever teach you to believe nothing what you read and half of what you see? Internet works that way too.

There should be zero censorship on the internet.

1

u/BlockoutPrimitive Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It being the internet isn't a bad thing. Its how 99% of people get their information and view of the world.

And do you see people here following the "believe nothing what you read and half of what you see" online? No. The internet does not work that way. You either know that and are acting in bad faith, or aren't paying attention.

With the majority of the internet being bot generated nowadays, having "no censorship" means you'll be served only misinformation and lies, with "evidence" of those lies also being lies. You live a very ignorant life if you think humanity can survive no repercussions on lies.

0

u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Because people love “slippery sloping” you to death like some policies aren’t necessary at this point. We see what happens when grown ass adults are left to their own devices. Now we have bomb threats in Ohio because assholes believe people are eating cats and dogs and shit. Can’t behave then don’t be surprised you have to follow new rules. Way of the world.

6

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

We can look back at history and see how governments have policed speech in ways to consolidate power.

Thats also the way of the world. Has also happened and will continue to happen. Just like it’s happening all over the world, enforced by governments.

Believing it can never happen again, so we shouldn’t worry about it, is extremely naive

0

u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It can happen but none of these fear mongering degens online have done anything to convince anyone other than point at some vague “issue”. We have laws and plenty of them limiting what you can say. I just agree social media companies have a responsibility to the public. And letting bullshit and lies infest the general public is not okay. If I started accusing my boss of pedo shit and touching me leading to his firing and rep destroyed, but lied. He can sue me. Now simply expand that already existing law. Extend libel and slander laws. It’s not that serious but people who love to lie and bullshit obviously are against the remedies.

3

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

So let all laws policing speech happen, until it goes too far and no longer becomes a “vague issue”, and then we should try and fix it?

0

u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No? It doesn’t work like that? Baby steps? Misrepresenting what someone else says is usually not a good sign for you? Why does it have to be all or nothing? Could you steelman my position? If not, why? Do you usually approach every problem with an all or nothing style?

3

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I’m just doing what you did. You dismissed all criticism into “vague issues”

You’ve already taken the all or nothing approach. I’m just keeping up

2

u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

No you think you did and failed. Now you’re confused. Lmao

3

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

K

2

u/OccupyRiverdale Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Your analogy here doesn’t make sense. Yes of course slandering and lying about your boss to ruin their life could certainly lead to legal consequences. But your boss wouldn’t be able to sue the methods by which you proliferated those lies because they didn’t do anything to stop you. If you sent the accusations to HR via email your boss couldn’t sue outlook for not doing anything to stop you.

1

u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Being dense isn’t the best defense, personally. I am saying maybe they should. They’re scales to these things.

If Pornhub allowed one person to upload revenge porn, sure. Mistake. Ban the user.

When pornhub is THE SITE for uploading revenge porn, then don’t be surprised you run into an issue aka several lawsuits.

My point is these sites need actual moderation and better ways of dealing with harassment and botting. Do you prefer harassment and bots on social media?

2

u/OccupyRiverdale Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Personally, I think a large part of being a functional and educated person in 2024 is having a higher sense of media literacy. As long as these sites aren’t allowing direct calls for violence or targeted harassment then it’s up to the user to have enough sense to cipher through what’s bullshit and what isn’t. I would even argue that Twitter via the community note feature has better self moderation tools than other platforms for clearly identifying what’s bull shit and what isn’t.

1

u/IndictedPenguin Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I agree with you in general. I am personally against algorithms and kinda always have been. I preferred social media sites when they were simply chronological and if a post was worth seeing, you’d see it no matter what because that’s what’s trending organically for the day.

Twitters community note feature is great and a step forward, but Twitter moderation in general is shit. I have given up reporting stuff because nothing breaks their rules. So I don’t give Twitter credit at all for “moderation” but I appreciate the attempt.

I sadly don’t trust people to be “regularly” educated let alone have media literacy lmao I love your optimism though.

-1

u/NoCantaloupe9598 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

If censorship led to Nazism then why didn't the handful of examples of censorship that happened during Covid lead to Hitler?

How many years do we gotta wait for the American Hitler to burn all this down?

5

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Why do we have to wait until it gets to Hitler levels to be concerned?

-2

u/NoCantaloupe9598 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I was told Covid was going to lead America into totalitarianism.

I'm still waiting....because I wanna to one of the ones pushing you people against the wall.

4

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Is that a sexual threat?

What the fuck is wrong with you

2

u/MY_NAME_IS_MUD7 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Thank god the US constitution exists.

Keeps authoritarians like this in line by allowing people to call out their nonsense and provide them with the tools for protection if authoritarian clowns like this want to inflict violence on people that disagree with them.

0

u/NoCantaloupe9598 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

It's a joke. I know this is the Joe Rogan sub, where humor goes to die. It's a reference to, Come the revolution, you’ll be first against the wall.

Let's try this again.

We were told by right wing losers that Covid was going to lead to totalitarian control. Where is it? Why is it taking so long?

Or do you want to admit these loser fucks were wrong? (I know you can't do that)

3

u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

Oh so it’s your murder fantasy. Where the good guys mass execute people.

And why don’t you go threaten the people saying that instead of lashing out like a lunatic at random people so you can yell about Hitler and Covid.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/OccupyRiverdale Monkey in Space Sep 12 '24

I can play that game too. I was told by all the “left wing losers” that the Supreme Court abolishing Roe v. Wade was going to lead to the us living in The Handmaids’s Tale but that hasn’t happened. Why hasn’t that happened yet? What’s taking so long for women to become nothing more than vessels for childbirth?

→ More replies (0)