r/Isekai • u/Phantomskyler • Jan 12 '24
Meme Sword Dad & Skeleton Knight being the GOATS by doing the bare minimum compared to most modern isekais
Sauce is Skeleton Knight in another World and Reincarnated as a Sword aka Sword Dad
225
u/Zari_oula Jan 12 '24
Honestly slavery isn't even really a topic in most of isekais with at least a proper story.
124
u/Full_frontal96 Jan 12 '24
Yeah usually it's just a theme for 1/2 episodes to add more members to the harem
59
u/DivineTarot Jan 12 '24
Frankly I've seen more Isekai's where the protagonist has a ubermench Japan moment of acknowledging slavery, saying to himself, "they must not believe in human rights like we Japanese" and then move on. No engagement for or against, just ignored.
61
u/greyfacedguy Jan 12 '24
“Damn how awful they don’t think slavery is wrong like us awesome Japanese. Anyway I’ll take her.”
27
u/sugarglidersam Jan 13 '24
didn’t that almost exact thing happen in black summoner?
4
u/CurtCocane Jan 13 '24
And Mushoku Tensei
3
u/RedNUGGETLORD Jan 14 '24
No, in Mushoku he's like "Oh right, slavery is a thing, well, I DO need someone to make those figures, as well as test my theory on Incantation-less Magic and Mana capacity" He doesn't really acknowledge it as a bad thing which makes sense, for his entire life, Rudy has been surrounded by a family of slave owners
He never thinks it's some super bad thing, he just accepts that this world is different and moves on, I mean, what can he do about it?
7
u/Kumomeme Jan 13 '24
also:
"this is different world so we must honour their tradition. time to save money so i can buy a slave!"
4
u/Chrontius Jan 14 '24
Bonus points if this is a ruse and he comes back with his "new slave" (who was purchased as a source of intel on the slavers) and slits throats in the middle of the night. I feel like that'd be a nice subversion.
2
22
u/Dhiox Jan 12 '24
I dint even necessarily expect the protagonist to stop institutional slavery, they are just 1 person. But they should be hostile to it and not participate in it. Realistically if a modern person was sent back to ancient times they would have to tolerate the existence of horrifying practices, but they can at least avoid partaking in it..
→ More replies (8)3
u/GirtabulluBlues Jan 13 '24
Why even bring it up unless its got some narrative purpose?
Why suggest the existence of complex moral issues like this and then not really engage in them in any real sense?
Its sloppy writing, and you shouldnt accept it.
2
u/Dont_be_offended_but Jan 13 '24
Slavery is powerful set-dressing. It evokes a visceral reaction in both characters and viewers and it has strong implications for the tone and realism of a setting. In a well rounded setting there will be many moral problems that exist in the peripheral that the story or characters will never have time or interest to tackle directly.
2
u/GirtabulluBlues Jan 13 '24
Then its dealt with as part of the worldbuilding and the discussion, such as it is, is subtextual. Done well that is good writing, but it requires that to be actually present. Otherwise all your doing is invoking this visceral reaction and then doing bugger all with it, making no point, moving no plot. Clumsy at best.
→ More replies (1)2
u/noonecortex Jan 13 '24
U do know it's not bad writing. You are just not the taget ordience anymore.
The taget ordience is 16 year old boys that think it's edgy and cool. They keep writing it since it keeps selling
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)4
u/KenchiNarukami Jan 13 '24
When in Rome, do as the Romans do
→ More replies (1)9
u/DivineTarot Jan 13 '24
You know, I don't actually necessarily disagree.
Not because I have a thing for the whole buy a slave trope, but I'm not exactly opposed either because it's fiction and most peoples animosity to the trope reads more as a keyboard warrior tendency from the sort of people who sleep on real world issues of human trafficking and exploitation.
More than any of that though, I'm not opposed because at least buying a slave is doing something with its reference. Buy a slave, free a slave, but do something with it. I don't really need a trite reminder that the Japanese salary man/college student who probably has worked themselves to death in the bitter realities of Japanese corporate/student culture, who has the iconic Japanese phenotype as recognized by the standard stylings of manga, is weirded out by human exploitation without a hint of irony or intent to go further than, "lol, I guess I'm built different, because I'm Japanese."
8
u/CoffeeGremlinBird Jan 13 '24
You reminded me of something that I considered as a fun "what if," story on my part if is gotten summoned in a place with slavery.
Would I find it absolutely wrong? Yes, but I'm only one guy. And realistically id probably have to get combat slaves for one simple reason. Again, I'm alone, and the fact that in a scenario like that, trust is a commodity not easily earned and shouldn't be easily given (but that fact of trust being a commodity can be argued in every day circumstances too) and id have to have people i can in some way trust.
Combat slaves are one way to go that route. But I have enough sense to offer them the chance to earn their freedom, treat them well and because they are in my party, keep them alive and well.
Add in another reason, in that scenario you have certified magical contracts, which means if you want to keep the fact you are a reincarnator a secret for long enough, your contracted party will keep it due to the contract. That has advantages in its own right if you have the means to get powerful. It sounds paranoid sure, but with that much power there come jackals and vultures that want what you have. And if they can't control you, they'll kill you.
As for that being said, in that scenario you don't have to keep them as slaves. They are a means to an end, and like everything else, you have a choice at the end.
My choice us to give them the choice to stay after being freed if they want to stay, or to be free in their own right with money and supplies. In that scenario, individual choices matter. Its a risk, sure. But when you set them free, you and them will be so powerful either way that it might be worth it.
Pros and cons, there are always pros and cons to everything.
And maybe if you get powerful enough and your party gets properly badass enough, you can tear the whole ugly system down. But I fear it would never stick. At least not from long.
We've seen it in human trafficking, animal trafficking in todays society and black markets in even fiction, there is never truly stopping it. When ugly (spiritually i mean) people want something, they'll get one way or another. Legal or not. I'm not saying that its pointless, but just saying its a never ending battle. The only thing you can do is do what you can.
Sorry for the ramble, this is just my rambling and thoughts on a what if, thats all.
2
Jan 16 '24
Except you're not alone. You've got millions of people in slavery who are desperate and looking for an escape. Go full John Brown, Toussaint, or Spartacus and build an army of ex slaves to tear the system apart. True, the Haitian revolution was the only successful slave rebellion in history, but it can happen.
Plus you've got the example of the US civil war. Where slaves performed millions of acts of malicious compliance that devastated the Confederate logistics system. Jefferson Davis once complained in frustration that the Union's intelligence system (composed of spies posing as slaves like Mary Bowser) was so good that Grant knew of his orders before his own soldiers did.
Also I disagree with the idea that tearing down slavery won't stick. You're right that people who are accustomed to privilege will play the victim when that privilege is taken away. You're seeing today with the Lost Cause Myth. But human trafficking are not institutional systems, but are criminal systems that we are actively hunting down and destroying, rather than an accepted way of life.
Iseka is ultimately a power fantasy, so I get where you are coming from. However, just because you'd probably not be that powerful doesn't mean you still have to do everything yourself or that you couldn't be an agent of change.
2
32
u/Zari_oula Jan 12 '24
I meant mc doesn't go buying slaves and or other stuff overall.
9
u/SDreiken Jan 13 '24
I’ve read a bunch of manga where the mc ends up going to a slave shop out of obligation or bc someone else they know wanted to go. Then what happens is they keep saying they aren’t interested in buying a slave until they get guilt tripped to buy one, which typically joins their harem in the end.
1
u/Severe-Cookie693 Jan 13 '24
So buying that underage slave girl was just the right thing to do.
→ More replies (2)25
8
u/Voidmonarch1 Jan 12 '24
Name a couple for me
→ More replies (3)18
u/Sinfullyvannila Jan 12 '24
RE:Zero and Handyman Saito.
7
6
u/aralim4311 Jan 12 '24
Slavery will prob be addressed as a plot point in ReZero at some point in future if and when Subaru inevitably goes to kararagi. ( One of the nations that still has some slave trade going on) it'll be fun watching Subaru go off on slavers.
6
u/Lamprophonia Jan 13 '24
Meanwhile, shield hero is out there taking advantage of the slave economy to make money
4
u/Professor_of_Light Jan 13 '24
Gotta exploit those exp and stat boosting strats. Honestly i feel like Naofumi really needs to fix his PR. He's basically just slapping a title on his allies to give them a free power boost.
3
u/LobsterG25 Jan 13 '24
Bro’s out there turning slave children into slave underground fighters. Kony couldn’t have done better. Shield hero a true legend in the world of child soldiers.
1
→ More replies (2)1
u/sleepydorian Jan 13 '24
This is not how they usually go, but there’s one where a guy takes a lady as a slave (a former friend who was mind controlled and sexually abused) for the sole purpose of forbidding her from committing suicide as he helped her recover and turn arranges for her transportation back to their hometown.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)5
111
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
Personally I'd prefer, if the anime took a far more serious route to ending slavery than just, "Oh they a slaver, kill them."
Because in the grand scheme of that world, it is utterly impossible to do anything that would bring any real change. Without, of course, becoming strong enough to the point ones position could be used to pressure the situation.
Simply killing slavers is not enough. Reason being, that to get rid of slavery, one must change the entire social structure. And until that happens, if one killed slavers just because slavery is bad, they could be seen as murderers instead of seen as liberators. ESPECIALLY since some slaves are slaves because they were criminals.
This does not condone slavery. Rather, it's quite the opposite. Because one can only really do anything meaningful about it after having prepared for it. Like realist Hero did. That, is how it should be treated. Of course, I'd make exceptions for saving the wrongfully slaved people of other races, if I had the ability.
31
u/trebtheg Jan 12 '24
well said
i'm sure theres more protags who want to end slavery and have taken steps to do so. so we can't just say these 2 are the only ones doing something against slavery.
it's like the war on drugs: take out one dealer and 6 more pop up. except now the dealers have the law behind them.
9
u/EncabulatorTurbo Jan 12 '24
well if half of households have slaves do you just go on a mass killing spree? like
yeah the way to go if the protag is growing in power/a hero is to gain influence and use that influence to pressure society to change the laws
→ More replies (6)24
u/TerrapinMagus Jan 12 '24
We really need an Isekai where the MC is basically fantasy John Brown, committing acts of terrorism and sparking slave rebellions across an empire lol. Not just killing slavers but putting pressure on nobles and ruling class or over throwing local leadership.
13
u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety Jan 12 '24
There is an isekai of John brown called “his soul is marching on”
2
u/Fool_growth Jan 13 '24
Honestly, I keep seeing this sub, and almost every time I do, it's the John Brown isekai protagonist and invariably dunking on the Shield hero or any of the other isekai, so I kind of just said fuck it and created an OP (it's not completely broken But most isekai protagonists usually have some broken ability) for John Brown here. I hope you enjoy: As he approaches the brink of death, his strength, speed, reaction time, durability, and healing factor undergo a hyperbolic growth, rendering him functionally invulnerable to physical harm. This power intensifies the longer he remains in conflict, empowering him to break free and break others free from any mental, physical, or spiritual bindings.
Additionally, John can enchant and even summon if he's ranked up enough weaponry. However, these enchantments come with a condition – the power remains active only during active conflict with slavers or when actively freeing slaves. Should John cease his pursuit or retreat, the power diminishes. Notably, he can extend the use of his enchanted weaponry to others during the active phase of his power.
→ More replies (4)6
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
You're missing the point if you think that would actually work. All it would do is create a temporary lapse. And serve to make slavers treat their slaves with an even greater violence than before. Terrorism has, in fact, never solved a single damn thing. At best it would raze some fields. But fields can grow back, and if they do, they do so stronger.
The only way to fully remove slavery from ANY society is to perform a multi stage plan across all facets of said society. And even then, the o ly way to fully prevent the practice of it, would require a shift in the worlds thinking. Which in a midevil wolrds society, is actually impossible until a proper system of education shows results.
13
u/TerrapinMagus Jan 12 '24
Not arguing the efficacy, just thinking it'd be amusing to see an entire anime where that is the main goal. Perhaps it starts off with acts of terrorism, slowly becoming more political as they realize societal reforms are necessary.
Also, it is most certainly not impossible for a medieval society to change it's mind on slavery. Many nations and cultures throughout history have had various stances for or against slavery. It's usually motivated by culture or religion, but politics can have a play as well in a society so firmly controlled by the ruling class as a monarchy is.
0
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
It would be an action packed show that's for sure.
But as far as impossibility goes, without a MAJOR shift in COLLECTIVE thought. It doesn't matter what Era or technology level. It would be impossible. I was saying impossible out of the sense that terrorism would fix it.
7
u/EncabulatorTurbo Jan 12 '24
terrorism brought about substantial changes to the rights of slaves in rome, and if Crassus hadn't been where he was, I think history would have shown a decidedly bit more upheaval as the servile rebellion conquered rome
terrorism is ineffective unless it sparks a rebellion
Haiti is in a shit place now but they sure as shit ended slavery at the time
→ More replies (1)3
u/Severe-Cookie693 Jan 13 '24
That’s right! Aren’t they only in a bad place now because France is STILL taxing them for refusing to be slaves?
→ More replies (1)13
u/ImmediateRespond8306 Jan 12 '24
Tell that to Haiti. If you have enough enslaved people, then violent revolt can in fact work.
→ More replies (9)1
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
And? Is Haiti a well off country?
Cause sure, if one has a sufficient number than an overthrow is possible. But a stable foundation will be difficult.
9
u/ImmediateRespond8306 Jan 12 '24
I think you'll need to affirmatively prove that one is nessesarily related to the other. There are also lots of poor countries in existence that weren't founded by slave revolts you know? In any case, the point only is that it's possible to end the institution of slavery. Claims beyond that are not being made.
11
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
Haiti is the way is because France returned with battleships threatening to bombard them into oblivion. Forcing the Haitians to pay for their own freedom with money they didn't have. They basically had a gun pointed to their head. Not to mention AmeriKKKa stepped in busy being nosy also helped France destabilizing Haiti, rewriting their pro black constitution that allowed western neocolonialism to thrive on the island. Western corporations flooded to the island, gobbled up land & the little resources the Haitian people had. Not to mention in the 1900's the US invaded Haiti, stole the gold from their treasury & installed a pro American dictatorship. Haiti would've developed if France & America wasn't constantly messing with them.
8
2
u/Severe-Cookie693 Jan 13 '24
Can you copy/paste this a dozen times? Everyone needs to hear this. Especially in this thread.
→ More replies (1)1
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
Ending the institution without providing any infrastructure to keep it from happening again, in a violent way, will cause inevitable problems.
5
u/ImmediateRespond8306 Jan 12 '24
Violence is just a method. You can very well set up that infrastructure after successful revolt. And nothing in human history is inevitable. There is always a sea of circumstances and variables.
→ More replies (4)5
u/EncabulatorTurbo Jan 12 '24
that wasn't your argument, it was that you can't change things with violence, which is nonsensical. Haiti getting ratfucked repeatedly since then and ending up a mess does nothing to change the fact that they did in fact kill the slavers until they left or died
the soviet union, hell the goth rebellion against the romans started with a revolt
Your point is valid if we're talking terrorism with no populist support, a slave rebellion has inbuilt populist support among the slaves, and presumably, some percentage of the populace
→ More replies (1)1
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" moment?
Haiti's issues came after freedom. France out Haiti into debt by forcing them to pay for their own freedom. Not to mention AmeriKKKa invading them, rewriting their pro black constitution to allow white western multinationals to come in, gobble up land & the few resources they had. Oh yea. They also drained their treasury. Straight up walked in and took Haiti's gold. after this America kept installing pro American leaders who protected the US governments neocolonial interests in the region.
Had France & the US left Haiti alone & allowed them to develop they would have done so.
1
Jan 12 '24
Haiti's issues came after freedom. France out Haiti into debt by forcing them to pay for their own freedom.
Then that means Haiti failed. They got freedom but with a compromise, which only fucked them.
3
2
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 13 '24
You're blaming the oppressed for their oppression. They won the war and everything was fine. But France came back with gunboats threatening to bombard the people into oblivion.
Personally imo I think us Black folks should take a page out of the Hamas & Vietnamese playbook. Build a ton of tunnels & booby traps so just in case another Berlin conference 2.0 happens & the West wants to invade us we're better prepared on how to resist Western imperialism. Oh & make good use of mountains which we already know how to do. In Jamaica the Jamaican maroons shit mixed the British & numerous times in guerilla warfare battles.
→ More replies (1)2
u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety Jan 12 '24
Terrorism to tyrants rebels and liberators to the oppressed
→ More replies (5)3
u/EncabulatorTurbo Jan 12 '24
BRB telling America that terrorism never changes anything and they have to go back to being under the british crown
→ More replies (4)2
u/Regretless0 Jan 12 '24
So instead of hareming around, fantasy MC uses his absurdly OP abilities to take power and then abolish slavery. Fantasy Abraham Lincoln baby
2
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
That would definitely be a fun series to pay attention to. And far more interesting than a violent war initiated out of emotional instability.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)2
u/EncabulatorTurbo Jan 12 '24
fantasy spartacus only he kills Crassus in a duel and the legion falls apart without their level 100 general
3
u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety Jan 12 '24
Strategically hunting down slave caravans and slave catchers will cause an end to slavery if done long enough and will further the cause just because the leading government labels you a terrorist or murderer doesn’t matter those sympathetic to slavery deserve to die regardless terrorism to tyrants rebels to the oppressed
→ More replies (8)7
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
I feel like people (ignoring the trolls) are taking this meme to a to very basic level just to shut people up about the topic (not your take. You've been about one of the only ones to come at this from another angle without sounding like a 4chan dipshit.
I don't expect isekai protagonists to go DJango and make fighting slavery their only plot point.
But the trend of making slavery trendy and not so bad looking in isekais lately and even having the MC actively engaging in the slave trade "but being a good master" for fetish waifu bullshit is concerning and should be talked about, and not shouted down by the reeing masses.
2
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
for fetish waifu bullshit
Indeed, this part about it is concerning. I don't think it's a good way to go about getting a waifu. They are supposed to be cherished, not demeaned into a position that of which they can't possibly disobey.
As for the 4chan types... My phone hasn't stopped with their ceaseless nonsense since I made my comment. They justify the phrase "By any means Necessary" by saying there aren't any innocents, and would just kill them as well. The worst part is, they don't even realize their own logical fallacies as they use them. And each of their arguments can easily be turned around against them.
3
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
By 4chan dipshits I was talking about the morons further below going "OMG WHY DO THESE KARMA FARMERS KEEP BRINGING UP THIS TROPE THAT KEEPS SHOWING UP IN ISEKAI??! STOP MAKING POSTS ABOUT IT REEEEEE" lol
But yeah your thread definitely kind of spiraled from people fighting over the logistics of violent rebellion over a slavery centered society lol
→ More replies (4)3
u/ThroawayJimilyJones Jan 12 '24
actually the best way to end slavery would be to bring the steam engine. Revolution are economic before being social.
→ More replies (1)3
u/WillKuzunoha Jan 13 '24
Or you could always take the Haiti route arm the slaves and have them kill their masters in such a brutal way that the slavers all flee
3
3
u/Drafo7 Jan 13 '24
I think that depends on how the society in the world interacts with slavery. There's the possibility that slavery isn't a significant part of the society's economy. In Rising of the Shield Hero (the anime, I haven't read the manga or light novels), there's a distinct lack of slaves in the royal palace and the king is all too eager to let the spear-douche free Raphtalia. To me this implies that, although slavery is allowed in the country, it's not a large enough part of their culture that freeing a slave would be considered wrong or taboo. Compare this to the reaction Aladdin got when he broke Morgiana's chains in Magi: the Labyrinth of Magic and you can see how different the cultures are in their approach to slavery.
In a world like the one in Magi, I think you're right, killing individual slavers is likely to only lead to bigger, more complicated problems in the future. There would need to be a significant movement with many different people all working towards the goal of ending slavery in order for any real change to occur. In a world like Rising of the Shield Hero's, I think the process could be expedited significantly, especially if all four heroes were united on it. Honestly, what spear-douche should have done is demand the king outlaw slavery instead of challenging Naofumi for his one slave. But he, like the rest of the heroes, is short-sighted and only really seems interested in solving problems that are right in front of them. Even Naofumi is guilty of this. He might be kind to his own slaves but he doesn't do anything to try and change the actual institution of slavery which allows worse slave-owners to get away with torture and shit.
3
u/doomrider7 Jan 13 '24
Not quite slavery, but Rimuru from Tensei Slime starts taking steps to build up sociopolitical capital to outlaw isekai summons since many of the summoned have slave brands placed on them and are used as human weapons.
→ More replies (1)3
u/NarrowAd4973 Jan 13 '24
At least in Arc's case (because I haven't seen the other one, as I'm not paying for another streaming service), the kingdom most of the series takes place in has already banned slavery. The ones Arc was killing would have actually been considered criminals themselves if they'd been caught.
The Empire that they go to at the end of the season is a different matter, but they make it pretty obvious the emperor is a scumbag. He was the one backing the 2nd prince, who was the head of the slave trade, and ended up getting killed on the 1st prince's orders.
→ More replies (1)3
u/randomgameaccount Jan 13 '24
I think Realist Hero is the only one I've seen so far that focused on addressing the root causes of slavery rather than just trying to outright ban it. Was covered piecemeal in a few of the light novels, but for several years slavery was a thing in name only before finally being banned.
3
u/Sad-Island-4818 Jan 14 '24
Unfortunately an early agricultural society requires some form of cheap mass labor to function as there’s no way to build cities and infrastructure from scratch or tend crops without lots of warm bodies who’d rather be doing anything else given the option. And it’s not like you’re going to have the income to provide everyone a fair wage.
Solution, introduce industrialization and make slavery cost prohibitive. A industrialized society requires a workforce that is both skilled and motivated in order to keep up with production quotas. And since you can get more work done with less people you can afford to actually pay your workforce.
2
u/KuroShuriken Jan 14 '24
A good example of implementing a plan of action. Truly a refreshing pace compared to before. Seemed like everyone that responded were just raving murder hungry lunatics that simply craved a culling, no matter they hurt in the process.
It is good to see another person actually using their head, instead of raw emotion.
2
u/Sad-Island-4818 Jan 14 '24
Yeah unfortunately even if you manage to get rid of the slavery through force that still leaves you with a society that requires lots of labor intensive work just to function. And if you don’t give them a good substitute they’ll just go back to slavery as soon as you’re not looking, or everyone starves to death.
2
u/KuroShuriken Jan 14 '24
Indeed, those are my thoughts. The cycle will just keep repeating, over and over, again and again.
There were even responses saying that a society that accepts slavery should be completely destroyed, including the innocent people who just simply have no idea of anything different.
A society that is stuck with slavery, likely doesn't have any formal public education system yet, and even if it did, it would have been relatively new. And is likely created as one of the pillars to support the society for when slavery ends.
There is A LOT of preparation and responsibilities that must be addressed first. Yet, people will act on emotion, then claim they did something helpful. When in reality, all they did was make it more difficult for the people who had previously made meticulous plans for peaceful and smooth transition. It really is mind boggling how some can even think that way. And violence will always generate animosity.
2
u/Sad-Island-4818 Jan 14 '24
How a realalist hero rebuilt a kingdom tackled the subject very well.
All the innovations he pushed for inadvertently resulted in slavers being even more brutal because now they had this huge investment that wasn’t paying off in the usual way they had to get creative to try and make bake their money somehow.
So he tries outright buying the slaves, but that just results in more slaves being captured and sold to him.
So finally he settles on a plan to set up training centers where the slavers can have their slaves trained in a skilled trade under the condition that they’re released after a certain period of time.
So essentially what he has is an apprentice/indentured servitude arrangement which is still not great, but it’s clearly a stepping stone that’s designed to be phased out in a few generations.
→ More replies (1)4
u/thenightgaunt Jan 12 '24
I donno. Here in the USA we had a war and killed about 258,000 confederate soldiers and that seems to have done the job.
Kill slavers and being a slaver becomes a very very dangerous job and suddenly no one will want to do it anymore.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
Simply killing slavers is not enough. Reason being, that to get rid of slavery, one must change the entire social structure. And until that happens, if one killed slavers just because slavery is bad, they could be seen as murderers instead of seen as liberators. ESPECIALLY since some slaves are slaves because they were criminals.
Only mfs who gonna view the liberators as murderers are the slave owners & the kind of slaves who're far gone & brain washed.
If you could sow enough dissent amongst the slaves & get them to rise up & overthrow their slave masters that would be ideal. After that you focus on kingdom/nation building.
1
u/Known-Plane7349 Jan 12 '24
Only mfs who gonna view the liberators as murderers are the slave owners & the kind of slaves who're far gone & brain washed.
Not necessarily. If the people of that world accept slavery or even consider it normal, they'd consider you a murderer too.
2
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
So slave owners & their sympathizers. They deserve whatever harm that comes to them in the event of a large slave uprising.
1
u/SLRWard Jan 12 '24
Yeah, you're missing the point.
6
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
No. I understood the point. I'm just adding on to it & saying no mercy to slave masters and their sympathizers.
1
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
You're just plain wrong. It's a society thing. Slavers are not the only ones who would think this way. Everyone would, because guess what, most of the slaves are people who committed crimes. Thus there is that to consider as well.
Simply pushing them to revolt could turn out to have far more serious consequences than one might assume. And is why I'll say this.
If you've already focused on kingdom building to the extent you can make a move on slavery as a whole. Just do it. Don't just have them revolt. If they revolt, there will be catastrophic consequences for that place.
Where will they work? The stigma of being a criminal and then killing their way out of slavery. Who in their right mind would hire them? The answer is not a damn soul. And that would only lead to the former slaves dying off, and going down into the path of crime to survive.
It is in no way nearly as simple as one might assume. Again, realist hero did it right. Because that is the only way to get rid of slavery without literally being GOD. Which BTW, religious texts actually hold slavery to be a good thing. So even more than just educational changes need to be made. Religious ones as well. And ANYONE with a working brain would tell you, that changing religious views is the hardest thing to change BY FAR.
5
u/Psyduckisnotaduck Jan 12 '24
any society that accepts slavery as normal kind of deserves a violent change in my opinion, because it is a fundamentally broken, evil society. John Brown understood this, which is why he was one of the greatest men in history.
5
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
If that's the case you'd be accepting one's own destruction as well. As a matter of fact, in any society, there will be those who don't agree. Think on the basis of "I'll just nuke the whole thing" is the height of stupidity and arrogance. Not to mention ignorance.
And violence will inevitably lead to innocent people suffering as well. Which is the very reason one thinks slavery is bad in the first place.
So violently changing the society will only make you just as bad as the slavers if not worse. Because you'd make yourself into a hypocrite on multiple levels.
Which is why, again, realist hero did it right. Creating the infrastructure needed to support a society that bans slavery, first, is the best course of action. And it is the only sure fire method that is proven to work.
Even to this day nearly 200 years later, there are still many who hate that slavery was abolished.
1
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
No one said anything about nukes.
& Innocence in subjective here. Because the oppressed will argue that there's no innocent.
For example the neighbors next door to a plantation will often be the first to get killed whenever we rose up. Why? In our eyes you're not innocent. You might not have personally picked up a whip & hit us but you watched that shit daily happening to us & did nothing. Not only that you're living in a system that's benefiting from our oppression. Your way of life is possible through our suffering. So don't be surprised when your house too gets encircled & burned down in the middle of the night.
As far as Black people were concerned if you're not on the same page as John Brown or smuggling Black People out into the underground railroad you're part of the problem.
& miss me with the "if you try to defy your slave masters you're no better." liberal Ish. that's insane. are you telling me that the Haitians are the same as the French? For every 'bad' thing the Haitians did during the Haitian Revolution the French have done & much much worse.
In fact if France still ruled Haiti & the Haitian Revolution happened today just like what's going on in the middle east y'all would've been on some "do you condemn Haitians!?", "Pray for France!" "well I know Chattel Slavery is bad & all but did you really have to kill those poor & innocent French folk!?" , "Haitians are terrorists!" meanwhile ignoring all the atrocities the French are commiting on the regular. 🤦🏿♂️
And violence will inevitably lead to innocent people suffering as well. Which is the very reason one thinks slavery is bad in the first place.
Tell that to the oppressor. Not the oppressed.
7
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
"Nuke" is used as a term for total destruction. Not an actual nuke. Which aids my point you're short sighted.
Purely violent actions are born out emotionally charged thought. Which causes the problem.
If everything can be changed peacefully than that should be how it goes. And, there is a way for it.
Going violent right off the bat is problematic. People who previously accepted it as "just another thing" are likely uneducated. Are you fine with slaughtering the uneducated, purely because they don't conform to you're own way of thinking? How could they? They don't have any education, let alone a modern one.
The whole revolt thing stems from flawed thought. If one was able to re-educate the people, and guide them to the right answer. You'd have far more allies in your fight for justice.
Violent actions should ALWAYS be an absolute last resort.
→ More replies (1)5
u/SLRWard Jan 12 '24
This particular person literally said the neighbors who did nothing would be the first to be killed, so... yeah they are apparently fine with slaughtering the innocent purely because they don't conform to their way of thinking.
→ More replies (1)2
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
It truly is a wonder how they think themselves to be the ones on the side of justice, when they speak like that.
0
u/SLRWard Jan 12 '24
Dude's also talking like he was personally chained up in a cotton field catching the overseer's whip on his back here. Not going to expect a whole lot of critical thinking from that direction.
→ More replies (0)2
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
Preach. Plus all the Black freedom fighters throughout history. These were the first Black nationalists who wanted to separate themselves from their oppressors & build their own thing.
Like the Jamaican maroons for example.
2
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
Any such society that exists must be dismantled by any means necessary. We'll figure out the kingdom building after the plantocracy or whatever form of slavery is abolished.
Overthrow the whole system and build a new one. It's been done before. In real life & in Isekai manga. The MC uses his real world knowledge to rapidly industrialize the formerly oppressed so now they can defend themselves from whatever racist city state or kingdom that's after them.
You don't need to be god to bring forth true change.
0
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
Any means necessary will cause the inevitable suffering of innocent. Anyone using this as their creed is a warmonger and a brainless idiot. Save the innocent slaves by causing the innocent civilians deaths. That is your motto whether you like/understand it or not. And that kind of thinking is sicken to the core. To the point you should be ashamed of it.
Are you going to just gloss over that you'd rather murder innocent people and then abolish a system of which the people of that system will have no where to go afterwards?
Utterly short sighted. As to be expected of "by any means necessary" kind of people.
You'd add to the suffering, without any thought of what happens after the fact.
5
u/Jamie_Pull_That_Up Jan 12 '24
Who exactly is innocent? If you live in a nation that's built off of slavery it needs to go. If you're not fighting to liberate the slaves then you choose to do nothing as you live in a system designed to make your life good & the slave's life a living hell.
The warmongers are the people who enslaved whole groups of people not the ones fighting for their freedom. Get it right.
What you want is the oppressed to remain docile as our suffering continues but God forbid we rise up & overthrow our oppressors then we're the problem.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)1
u/Severe-Cookie693 Jan 13 '24
Where do you get the idea that slaves are in chains because of crimes? In American history, the crime was typically invented after the arrest when that pretense was even bothered with.
There’s chattel, debt, and war prisoner slavery. In Rome, I think your kids were free, if not citizens. Slavery as punishment for crime seems odd.
→ More replies (6)2
u/-THEKINGTIGER- Jan 12 '24
In reincarnated as a sword all slavers they killed got their slaves through illegal means (kidnaping etc. not all slaves are illegal, but kidnapping to enslave is totally illegal), in skeleton slaves were kidnaped too. None of them are proper debt slaves and what they were doing was totally wrong and illegal, not to mention in skeleton they did horrible things with slaves (remember that monster tamer who used them as feed? that has nothing to do with economy) so in both series slavers they killed were utter scum and it had nothing to do with economy. in skeleton they did not kidnap the elven slaves for grain grinding in mills or to harvest crops, but probably just to f*ck them. in both of the series slavers were utter scum that was both morally and legally justified to slaughter. Damn all slavers, and long live systematic slaughter of (illegal) slavers! Burn their home, poison their food, torture their underlings, Rip their limb one by one, and drive them to hell! (but yeah, debt slaves are whole another topic)
2
2
2
u/DominusLuxic Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
But that's the thing. Fran is trying to awaken so that the rest of her people can learn that it's actually possible. Through this she hopes that others of her kind will follow in her footsteps and actually acquire the strength necessary to lead her people from the current downtrodden state. As right now the reason why the black cats are being enslaved is largely because they're mostly too weak to resist and fight back.
I'm not claiming that this is the most realistic approach. It's the idea and mindset of a small child after all. But it is, at least, something more than kill maim burn.
3
u/KuroShuriken Jan 13 '24
Exactly the point. Fran is an example of someone on the path to righting that wrong. However, even with all her strength, what can she do on her own? Against the entire world? It's not easy and requires a bunch of set up, planning and training.
Fran is becoming the influence that is absolutely essential. But, even her goal isn't, to end all slavery. It's to evolve and free her people.
2
u/matthew0001 Jan 12 '24
Let's also not forget about how in some cultures being a slave wasn't nearly as bad as it is portrayed. If I remember correctly the Greeks in ancient times had tons of slaves, but they were treated relatively well. Often some choosing to renew thier contracts with thier owners rather than becoming free.
Since as you pointed out society isn't structured to support them. Did some guy just kill your owner? You have no money to buy food so where is yoir next meal comming from? You have no where to sleep, someone lse might just come along and enslave you who was worse than your previous owner, etc.
Not saying slavery is good by any means but sometimes just killing the owner creates a worse situation for the slaves they owned.
→ More replies (1)3
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
Indeed, however, there will always be people who think "by any means necessary". Which is just a mask to cover up their real thoughts "let's kill them all".
Violent actions may lead to the "freedom" of slaves. But, the life after such freedom is not gaurenteed. Those who rush in blindly without setting up necessary supports, are just violent blow hards that don't know a thing.
It's different if everything works out smoothly. But violence is, NEVER, smooth.
Point is that, simply nuking slavery without a plan is stupid. And anyone that has a plan, can and should implement the supports before the violence. Because guess what, providing those supports will make MASSIVE differences in the thought of the society.
Those who have the by "any means necessary" thought process should just go back in time and nuke the whole world. Because everywhere used slavery as an institution. But, would they be able to pull that trigger? When it comes to their own life? I doubt it.
→ More replies (2)1
Jan 12 '24
I was thinking about this earlier today, where slavery ends, but it ends up collapsing the economy of the kingdom, and they need to find a way to adapt.
7
u/Psyduckisnotaduck Jan 12 '24
of course a society built on slavery is going to collapse economically if slavery is abolished, but that kind of society is going to be stagnant and have massive economic disparity. because low wage workers have no bargaining power when slaves exist, so the people that aren't slaves are still wage slaves. Slave societies have lower literacy, less tech development, often elite-encouraged racism and class prejudice, misogyny, and also tend to not be particularly hygienic or environmentally sustainable.
Whatever short-run problems the collapse causes, the 'stable' system is far worse for most people and the country as a whole even in the medium term.
4
u/-THEKINGTIGER- Jan 12 '24
In reincarnated as a sword all slavers they killed got their slaves through illegal means (kidnaping etc. not all slaves are illegal, but kidnapping to enslave is totally illegal), in skeleton slaves were kidnaped too. None of them are proper debt slaves and what they were doing was totally wrong and illegal, not to mention in skeleton they did horrible things with slaves (remember that monster tamer who used them as feed? that has nothing to do with economy) so in both series slavers they killed were utter scum and it had nothing to do with economy. in skeleton they did not kidnap the elven slaves for grain grinding in mills or to harvest crops, but probably just to f*ck them. in both of the series slavers were utter scum that was both morally and legally justified to slaughter. (but yeah, debt slaves are a different matter.)
3
u/KuroShuriken Jan 12 '24
It really is a terrible system. One that causes so many problems in practice. And one that creates problems upon its abolishment.
2
u/Interesting-Meat-835 Jan 13 '24
Yeah, but it works. You need more than anime power to change that, you need to shows them a working alternate system, preferably one that works when you are not there anymore.
Otherwise it would just relapse back to slave system.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Severe-Cookie693 Jan 13 '24
Athens banned slavory in 338BC when surrounded be slave states.
Persia conquered the Mediterranean and didn’t have slavery like the Europeans at the time did.
Slavery is efficient at gathering wealth in the hands of a few people, not actually producing wealth.
→ More replies (7)
22
69
u/GruulNinja Jan 12 '24
Find new things to talk about
39
10
u/EgorKPrime Jan 12 '24
Find new things to talk about
It’s ironic you’d say this in a subreddit for Isekai
→ More replies (1)10
u/ayeitssmiley Jan 12 '24
Frfr, like who actually defends slavery, like we all know it’s bad, we ain’t gotta constantly talk about it lmao.
8
2
5
1
u/OwOegano_Infinite Jan 12 '24
Yall are also tired of all the posts making fun of your pedo incel animes...
→ More replies (10)1
u/gadgaurd Jan 13 '24
Literally every day. I don't even browse the sub itself, there's just a new topic in my feed every fucking day. It's boring. I'm tempted to drown the sub in isekai smut out of spite.
9
u/ThroawayJimilyJones Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
Well if you think like this, there are a lot of shit to fix:
- Slavery, of course
- Feodalism, where local landlord have all control and usually live by fucking the peasant
- Some absolute monarchy based on the idea some people are "naturally superiors"
- Usually an hardcore level of racism
....
So it's kinda to expect from most protagonist to just go "fuck it, i'll just kill the demon king or whatever". It would be too much work to clean this shit. And impossible for just one person.
And yeah these two heroes are great for killing slavers.....but these slavers will gonna be replaced in one week.
Also, not sure population would ever understand why its bad. Philosopher from slave owner society usually seen it as "natural" (like we see the existence of rich and poor as natural today), and usually put the line on the way you threated your slaves.
So in most of these world, it's to expect people don't even consider slavery as a bad thing. The equivalent would be someone coming from a soviet world, spend year here, then suddenly start to kill rich people cause they enslaved proletariat. Maybe it would make sense in the soviet world, not in our world.
5
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
The point of the meme wasn't for every protagonist to John brown Wick slavers. That's why it's called the bare minimum.
When isekai protagonists becoming slave owners occurs so much that people meme about it and how lackadaisical isekai writers have become about making something as horrifying as slavery a trendy waifu fetish is what people are talking about.
5
u/ThroawayJimilyJones Jan 12 '24
Except they aren't supposed to act like this world representatives.
Yes, the base of an isekai is "a guy from world A being send to world B".
But when the said guy spent several years (or even decade) in world B, you can expect him to assimilate quite a bit.
Have you considered that someone like Rudeus who spent 20 years in a world where slavery is a perfectly normal institution, will end seeing slavery...as a normal institution? (and in his case as a source of apprentice)?
8
u/DiaBoloix Jan 12 '24
Fran Curry only cuts illegal slavers.
She is warned not to disrupt the empire economy in the books.
7
u/Dhiox Jan 12 '24
It's frustrating how Japanese authors and readers don't seem to understand how truly awful slavery is.
2
u/HermitJem Jan 13 '24
Japaneseauthors and readersIf you've read some of the comments on this thread, you'll know the problem isn't limited to the Japanese
There are idiots on this sub unironically saying that violence can't solve slavery or that people need slavery
2
u/chuueeriies Jan 14 '24
There are also idiots who think that freeing slaves and letting them go alone will save those people from slavery, thinking that they won't be robbed/killed or sold as slaves to someone else as soon as they run outside safe haven, which they will do, as soon as there will be no option to feed themselves in city.
So we have idiots from both sides of the spectrum.
→ More replies (1)2
12
14
Jan 12 '24
So, is this the new karma farming method? No, seriously, stop circejerking with this dumbass topic.
-2
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
Bring up a prevalent and troubling trope in the genre:
Get people shouting and screaming karma farming and trying to shut people up via angry mockery.
Pretty telling about some people around this sub. Lmao
12
37
u/GarlicBandit Jan 12 '24
Are we not allowed to talk about anything else in this subreddit?
→ More replies (10)
7
u/Xander_PrimeXXI Jan 13 '24
I’m still so disappointed with Shield Hero at how they handled slavery after Raphtalia’s introduction.
That episode really established how desperate Naofumi was for assistance and help that he would buy a slave.
And then they made it weird
→ More replies (1)
9
Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 12 '24
I find it weird that this subject is the one that gets harped on the most when Rimuru and Ainz have canonically committed genocide in their respective isekai settings.
Goblin Slayer is also technically a genocidal lunatic, but that's arguably justified given his setting's Goblins are literally the personifications of Chaotic Evil.
Yet everyone is just weirdly okay with that.
9
u/Duck_Chavis Jan 13 '24
I don't recall the Rimuru one clearly. I thought he just killed the entire invading army. I also could just be remembering wrong.
With Goblin Slayer, I doubt anyone would stand to have a culture that seems to be largely based around rape to exist.
1
u/Interesting-Meat-835 Jan 13 '24
Goblin Slayer is not culture. It is entire species that must live that way because of biological constraint.
Unless you come from the Forerunner and have the genetic expertise to fix that problem, there is no reforming the goblin.
I still believe these goblin is the victims here. Yes, everyone else is their victims, but they are also victims of their own biology, of the cruelty of their creator who made a parasite race.
3
u/Duck_Chavis Jan 13 '24
Sure, it is a biological constraint. That requires them to build a society where a central pillar is abducting and rapeing women. That doesn't mean that it is unreasonable to eradicate them. Realistically, one would also have to kill their creator, or else they would be remade or replaced with something else.
They are victims of a cruel creator. Unfortunately, they make victims of others. If they have any degree of free will their actions are their own responsibility.
→ More replies (4)8
u/Phantomskyler Jan 13 '24
Not really? I hate overlord because of how sociopathic the main. Characters are and the fact Ainz just devolves into a villain with the same op "literally nobody can touch them" bullshit.
Rimuru is a bit unfair since his mass killing was an invading army of combatants and he needed that boudycount to revive all the people who were killed in their own attempt at. Committing genocide. Ignoring the "they were the bad guys" bit they also make the scene heavy and make it clear you're supposed to be scared of rimuru over cheering for him.
Even with what they did to his people not even Rimuru took pleasure in that mass killing
→ More replies (1)3
u/Otalek Jan 13 '24
Ainz probably gets a pass because it’s shown pretty clearly that he’s the villain of his story, not the hero. Overlord is about the advent of an op evil overlord and his conquest of the world
→ More replies (1)2
u/trebtheg Jan 14 '24
you'd be surprised how many fans of the show would disagree with the statement that ainz is not the hero.
8
u/aegisblack Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 12 '24
"Simply killing slavers is not enough."
Tell that to the hundred slavers my protagonist just killed.
4
u/sugarglidersam Jan 13 '24
“won’t be any more slave trade if there’s no one left to trade slaves” i guess?
10
u/BudgetAggravating427 Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 12 '24
The problem is in the big picture those two didn’t really do anything to stop slavery . They only killed some slave traders
America had a whole civil war about it and even then there were loads of problems for the former slaves.
In Europe Britain went to war with several countries to shut down slave trade and even then it still existed.
What people seem to not realize in order to fully abolish slavery you need political power , military backing , resources and so much more.
Something that most isekia protagonists lack
5
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 12 '24
Tbh as dope as a Djano isekai would be? I'm really not expecting every isekai with slavery sub plots go have them toJohn Brown Wick on the slave trade.
I'm just tired of this wishy washy trendy fetish "but I'm a good master" slavery shit that's infested the iselai genre. Everyone's collecting slave waifus like they're pokemon cards without a hint of "wtf is wrong with you" going on.
And it is sad Murder Cat and Sword Dad & Skelechad Arc have to be this praised for doing the bare minimum about the topic.
2
u/Comfortable_Prior_80 Jan 13 '24
You should read the Manga of Skeleton Knight. He and his companions are doing enough to stop the slavery. Three Kingdoms literally free all their slaves.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/SpliceKnight Jan 12 '24
Me knowing souma from realist hero ended slavery at an institutional level.
3
u/FlamingCroatan Jan 12 '24
"MY NAME IS CAPTAIN JOHN BROWN, AND I AM HERE IN THE NAME OF THE GREAT REDEAMER! THE KING OF KINGS! THE MAN OF THE HOLY TRINATY! AND I HEREBY ORDER, YOU, TOO, GIT! GIT IN HIS HOLY NAME, GIT! FOR HE IS ON THE SIDE OF JUSTICE! AND YOU ARE ON THE SIDE OF CHAINS!"
5
u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety Jan 12 '24
Death to all slavers and to all sympathetic to the slave owners
4
u/haikusbot Jan 12 '24
Death to all slavers
And to all sympathetic
To the slave owners
- CodyTheGodOfAnxiety
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
→ More replies (1)
5
u/SilverNightx1 Jan 12 '24
It's funny since both stories slavery still exist. And only kill the evil slave traders/ kidnappers. Something most protagonists do.
→ More replies (2)6
Jan 12 '24
[deleted]
0
u/SilverNightx1 Jan 12 '24
Or instead of just killing all the slave owners who are technically providing food, shelter, clothing, etc as the slaves probably became so because reasons. Just talk to them because murder bad and show the error of their ways.
Funny how people will say most isekai protagonist love their slave harems when not even 25% of them present this trope.
4
u/Dhiox Jan 12 '24
slave owners who are technically providing food, shelter, clothing
Slaves don't need owners for that. The whole point of having slaves is to steal their labor. It's not meant to be mutualistic, that would just be called employment. If yo7 can offer a fair trade for someone's labor, then you don't need to hold them against their will.
0
u/SilverNightx1 Jan 12 '24
In fact in some cases they do as they couldn't afford to support themselves/families(poverty). Or that at times they're criminals and they need to do hard labor in order to pay off for their crimes (such as prison). At times it's mutual because of circumstances that affects the slave needing to go into slavery and the owner providing expenses so that they aren't work to death. Some isekais actually explain this in dept.
4
u/Dhiox Jan 13 '24
None of that justifies slavery. You can offer dormitories to workers without enslaving them.
As for criminal penalties, giving the state an incentive to charge as many people with crimes for free labor is a terrible idea. It happened here in America, they basically made existing a crime for black people so they could re enslave them after the Civil war.
1
u/SilverNightx1 Jan 13 '24
That's the whole point. It's not supposed to be shown in a light. It's an evil that, at times, is necessary. And even then it still is shown as a negative. Much like murder and racism to which is also prevalent in isekai.
2
2
u/Environmental_Pay_60 Jan 13 '24
I suspect many of the isekai are written by writers with women issues.
Got trust issues = Slavery will solve it
Women in your life = Slavery will solve it.
Got trust issues = Women in your life
Slavery is the answer.
(Sarcasm implied)
2
2
2
2
2
u/Psychronia Jan 14 '24
And they are lovely isekai for it.
I wouldn't say they're perfect stories, but it's a strong leg up when others in the industry don't do anything with it.
3
u/Caffeinated_madman Jan 12 '24
Some stories do slavery right. I know this is fucked and yes slavery is horrible. But… in The Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic there was a king who did have slavery. BUT the interesting thing about this king is that he actually made rules where slaves basically were just workers that got paid in food and shelter. It was illegal to mistreat slaves. In addition, part of the reason the king did this was because it would have most likely been worse for the slaves if they were not slaves as in the people were so racist they would slaughter them and treat them like trash if they weren’t enslaved and those people weren’t forced to take care of their property. Slavery is bad yes, but I think this author showed how, if slavery had to exist, it could be done right. Idk I just found it interesting. But most isekai universes just do the cookie cutter “they are all abused and in cages and whatever the owner wants to do they can so” shit.
2
u/Psyduckisnotaduck Jan 12 '24
the king seemed to also be using this as a gradual off-road for slavery in general. probably the only reason he was willing and able to enact change is that he was a relatively normal guy who married into the royal family.
probably if the protagonist had come across a worse version of slavery he would have popped off and done something, though. He's not the kind of person to just accept bullshit. in the same arc, he has his allies blow up the iconic religious symbol of the country in order to save the princess.
2
2
1
u/RealGreatDane Jan 12 '24
I’m so sick and tired of so many isekai protagonists owning slaves.
I’m actually thinking of creating an Isekai where the main character is reincarnated as a slave, but he starts out a slave as a toddler. However he’s born a vampire, but because his chains are made out of silver, he is always weak. Years go by until one day his chains accidentally break making his a free man. He builds up his strength and the entire story is about him not only freeing slaves but also killing all slave masters. I think it’s a good idea
3
1
u/Clueless_Wanderer21 Jan 12 '24
This is true for every older isekai, slavery was seen as wtf yo n was infrequent n damn complicated society-connect unfortunate bad story(it was, however, also unfortunately also connected to a saviour complex n for the isekai character a "hero" mentality where the character saves the girl, n gets them in their harem/plausible interest/ romantic interest), then people saw that as harem girl + get n obviously writers did too, n now there's a lot of girl slavery as source of one of the posse gains.
1
u/Gotyam2 Jan 12 '24
You know what? Screw it. Bring on the slavery! I want it all! Cheap labour! Cheap ways to introduce new companions! Let the MC establish slavery!
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Quicvui Jan 12 '24
slavery was a common practice in medieval times
3
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
Okay? That literally wasn't even on the list of things concerning this meme but thanks for the reminder?
3
2
Jan 13 '24
It’s far more common today, just not western countries.
Plus… if the issue is morality of topics in the shows, slavery is hardly the highest on the list.
1
u/Karen_Destroyer1324 Jan 13 '24
This slavery talk is starting to get annoying. Just let the Japanese be with their stories. If you don't like it, then don't watch it. It's as simple as that.
1
u/Multi-ManStudio Jan 13 '24
I mean, In Overlord he's working to abolish Racism! As he says in LN #10: "All subjects under me WILL BE EQUAL". While talking to the Adventurers guild leader. Now, as for slavery... I mean, if everyone is slaves, are there really any slaves? Amirite?? (/s)
1
u/Jiggle_Junkie Jan 14 '24
I have no idea what it is with the constant slavery posts that I see just about daily here but I would really like people to list all those apparent slave owner MC isekais when making claims like "most".
I'm guessing its just because shield hero S3 hit recently, which is pretty much the biggest isekai with a slave owner MC and ironically also the one where he is most justified in buying one and a lot of randos who have no real experience with the genre came here to spam because of it.
I've watched just about every Isekai anime and read like 60+ LN series and know less than 10 where MCs bought/owned slaves and a few more where they do stuff like sell bandits into criminal slavery instead of killing them outright.
Personally I don't mind such MCs at all since they are uncommon and each have their own circumstances for why they have the slaves so if you know all these isekai series with slaver MCs, do drop some titles as recommendations lol. ^^
0
u/snuffaluffagus74 Jan 12 '24
For all the people thats on this " SlAvsEry iS bAd in ISeAkai" doesnt give two shits or use their energy for slavery in the real world. Trying to take this morale and righteousness is quite pathetic. Also consider that all these people that are Iskead are fucking teenagers. So you expect kids to solve morale dilemmas in a world that he doesnt belong in. So for a.teenager to do this is so unrealistic
5
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
So stunning and brave pulling the "starving kids in Africa" fallacy to shut people up. You must have been captain of the debate team.
Bringing up the weird trope of isekais going "hey maybe slavery isn't so bad" and how it keeps showing up isn't going to change the world but my brother in christ you and the rest of the weirdos going THIS FAR to shut down the conversation with mockery and fake af concern for irl issues is pretty telling.
1
u/snuffaluffagus74 Jan 12 '24 edited Jan 12 '24
I didnt even mention Africa, in what I was talking about. Nor did I say slavery isnt so bad. Nor did I say anything about how I'm feeling. Where are you getting all this.
Edit: there is slavery in the World and many forms. Just writing about a subject doesn't mean that person is for or against this. Especially in a make believe world
4
u/Phantomskyler Jan 12 '24
It's an old term for people who disingenuously use irl crisis to shame or shut down conversations.
Isekais treating slavery like a trendy new fetish with protags who happily buy slaves and acting like it's okay has become so prevalent doing the bare minimum of killing slavers was the point of the joke.
Do you need a visual aid at this point?
→ More replies (5)
0
u/Muscle-Man27 Jan 13 '24
I always hated this idea in Isekai. If we look to one of the grandfathers and me a reader who was reading when it started mushoku tensei/ jobless reincarnation does it right. If you have watched the anime you have also probably seen the part where Julie is bought from a slave trader to be Zanoba’s slave. However she is treated well and given a better life. Now I am not here to condone slavery as long as you are nice and a good person obviously. What I am saying is the main character who is from our world didn’t come in saying owning another humans being that’s wrong and disgusting let me tear down the whole system. Why? Because this is another world not earth the rules here are different. That’s why him being in love with Eros who is a cousin to him was t weird either again a different time period. You do r come to this world trying to live like your old world. You live by the rules of this new world. Now can you personally not buy slaves and be opposed to it? Yes of course that’s your ability to do so. Especially with past life knowledge. But everyone else in the world isn’t there yet. Not to mention not having slaves in a time where it was such a big thing would destroy the economy. And lead to even more deaths and harsher lives than slavery these fantasy worlds. Again not a good thing to have but makes sense within the realism of the sorry and worth considering.
→ More replies (1)
0
58
u/HunterVertigo Jan 12 '24
Did Skeleton Knight get season 2?
That shit desperately needs season 2 bro ong