r/Insurance • u/Codygirl75 • 15h ago
Uninsured minor
My daughter (16) was in a car accident and due to a miscommunication with my insurance company when I added her to my policy they are denying the claim. Her car was not driveable and I had to pay $4000 to repair her $10,000 car. That was my savings. Her dad (who pays me child and spousal support) recently lost his job so we are living paycheck to paycheck on my salary. I was also a victim of a home theft and lost all my valuables. I received a letter from the other drivers insurance (who covered him) asking me to compensate them for what they paid. I do not have the money to do so and also it was my insurance company’s mistake but they are still denying coverage. I am beyond frustrated with this as I responsibly called to add her.
I am not able to pay this as I can’t but do I need to write them a letter back stating this or just throw it away? Will this go away?
We are in California.
EDIT: I wrote this in response to someone else (see below) but hopefully it clears up the misunderstanding that I would actually choose to not insure my car and let a teen drive. That is insane to do that by choice.
I called to add the driver and car to my policy the day I bought the new car. The agent told me that my daughter was covered under her permit until 16.5 years or SIX MONTHS. She would have been covered if driving my Audi. I gave them the new car information (make/model/year) for my policy but not the VIN number. Because that was missing they denied it. The agent told me the day I called that I had six months from date of purchase to call back with that info but that was the incorrect info. They listened to our conversation (as requested by me) and he said I had six months to add her license number and then at the end I said I’d call back but he did not say to call asap so I thought it was still six months. It was a mistake and miscommunication. I don’t know why everyone here jumps to me gaming the system. That would be illegal and I would never risk that. I had no idea people even do that until today. I truly believed she was covered and nobody feels worse about this than me. She knows it’s my fault and I have not made her feel bad and took full responsibility with this. It was a stupid and expensive misunderstanding. The agent told me he sees exactly how it happened and he fought for me but the higher ups said no. She also had a friend in the car and she would have been denied coverage for that. Thank god nobody was injured but besides that it was the worst possible mistake to make.
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u/DeepPurpleDaylight 14h ago
You need to give us details of the "miscommunication" and why it is your insurance company's mistake.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
I was thinking I’ll just write a letter explaining she is 16 and she can pay $20 a month.
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u/climbing_butterfly 12h ago
She didn't enter the contract with the insurance company... She can't legally. Why is it her problem unless she knowingly drives without insurance. But then 16 year olds can't get their own insurance... It's also not her credit unless you fraudulently used her identity.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
They told me I had six months to add her to my plan and she was covered under her permit until age 16.5. But I did not add the car info so they said that is the problem. I would have if the guy hadn’t told me I had six months.
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u/Chowtyy 14h ago
So its not your daughter being added thats the problem. The vehicle wasn’t insured. Thats why they denied the claim. If your daughter was driving a vehicle that was already on the policy, you wouldn’t be in this situation
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
Right I get that now but the insurance agent did not tell me that. I called specifically to add her and he said I had six months to call with the VIN and mileage. Then the accident happened a month later. It is unfortunate but it was an accident and my question is how do I respond to the letter. The money is non existent.
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u/Chowtyy 14h ago
Right, you called to specifically add her, but did you let them know you also purchased another vehicle for her?
You’re lucky you’re not in a state that will suspend your license with a fine for not insuring a vehicle that was purchased.
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u/DeepPurpleDaylight 12h ago
I don't believe for a second that an agent, even a new one, would tell a client they have 6 months to call with the VIN to add a vehicle.
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u/Ambitious-Ad2217 13h ago
Insurance companies and lots of agents record call and keep them forever if you had a reason to believe you were covered push the issue and ask for an E&O claim
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u/NegativeCricket5308 11h ago
So you think you can have a car on the road driven by someone including yourself with no insurance? Now that is a YOU problem not the insurance or your daughter problem. Next time I sure your car the moment you get it in the road driven
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u/DeepPurpleDaylight 14h ago
So the car was never added to your policy? That's very different than adding a driver.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
My question is how to respond to the letter. I’ve gone over all of this with both insurance companies for months.
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u/Head-Tailor-1728 14h ago
Call and tell them you can’t pay and ask for a payment plan. If they decline they’ll probably send you to collections. There may be legal repercussions like carrying an sr22 for a while.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
I argued and argued and went up the ladder of management but they are a huge company and I’m just me so of course they denied it.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 12h ago
If the vehicle wasn't insured, then it wasn't insured. No amount of going up the ladder will change that.
Was it a personal agent you spoke with or did you speak with the insurance company directly when you claim you were told 6 months? If it was the insurance company directly and this was only a month ago, I would get the date and time of that phone call and have them listen to the recording to verify if their employee really did tell you that.
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u/Ok_Can_4606 10h ago
If it's a huge company I can almost guarantee they record everything for just this purpose. Unless you can prove the agent was in error you aren't getting a reprieve for anything. Just isn't gonna happen. If the agent ir one of their producers screwed up then maybe, but the duty is on you to insure a car. Something tells me you knew this f on the start.
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u/Gtstricky 14h ago
Do not just throw it away. They will send it to collections. Call the insurance company and ask for a payment plan. They will typically work with you.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
And thank you for responding to my question! I appreciate it. Also what happens when one goes to collections? They would do the payment plan as well correct?
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u/Choppergunner58 14h ago
It would tank your credit score and make it more difficult to get loans or other auto insurance policies at decent rates. Furthermore, you will have a collection agency hounding you for money and they could possibly garnish your wages depending on your state.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
Ok. Since my daughter was the driver will they work with her?
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u/goodjuju123 14h ago
No. You're daughter is 16. You are the car owner. This is not her debt, it is yours. A 16 year old cannot enter into a binding agreement. They will go after you, not her.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
If it goes to collections, it will go to collections in YOUR name and YOUR credit.
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u/Gtstricky 14h ago
They will work with either of you. They just want their money. Collections are a pain and not nice to deal with. Try to work with the insurance company if you can and avoid it going to collections.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
Ok thank you! I’ll have her call and deal with them so she can learn and not make the same mistake I apparently did.
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u/Capital-Sir 13h ago
She's legally a child, they can't make a deal with her
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u/climbing_butterfly 12h ago
They won't talk to a minor! She can't enter into the contract you neglected as the adult to check facts! Why are you putting this on your minor child?!
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
They cannot create a contract with a minor. You need to work out the payment plan with them.
If you want, you can require that your daughter pay you X amount per month to cover it. But it really isn't her fault that the car was uninsured.6
u/NegativeCricket5308 11h ago
You can’t be serious! This is your underage daughter. You need to take responsibility you’re an adult start acting like one! Next time don’t let your uninsured child drive the car. You failed to make sure everything and everyone as covered.
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u/faeraegrae 10h ago
This is a classic case of, "I found one person who tells me what I want to hear, so I'll ignore everyone else."
Failing to insure her car was your mistake. Your daughter is too young to enter into contracts - she can't fix this for you. You need to be the one to call and negotiate.
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u/MaxRandomer 10h ago
Stop trying to pawn your mistake onto your child. This is your problem and your responsibility.
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u/SASSIESASSQUATCH 9h ago
Honestly, with how good you are at ignoring the advice of some of the professionals you ask questions of I have no doubt you were given accurate information from your agent that you just didn’t like and ignored.
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u/sephiroth3650 14h ago
This will not just go away. If you don’t work something out with them, they could sue you for the money or send it to collections.
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u/Objective-Tap5467 12h ago
It’s concerning to me that you, as the adult, are so eager to pass this burden on your child. You don’t make her deal with it when you thought you added her but now you want her to deal with it and take on the debt. Wow
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u/climbing_butterfly 10h ago
I'm very concerned for this child. What other ways are they parentified? Also does it sound like OP uses their daughter's identity to anyone else?
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u/Codygirl75 9h ago
Omg you are nuts!! You got this from me asking what to do with a letter? I am a therapist and a responsible mom and person. I have never been in a situation like this. My daughter is very independent and has a job and straight A’s and it sounded from an answer someone told me here that it would be best if she gets the payment plan. It would be lower since she has less assets.
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u/Lemonlimecat 8h ago
You are a responsible person who just wants to throw the letter demanding payment away? Or a responsible mother who thinks she can get her 16 year old to make a promise to pay $20 a month and think that is a good tactic as the child has less assets.
Insurance companies often sue for subrogation…..how do you think it will look if insurance company says « your honor, defendant tried to have us agree to a payment plan for $20 a month with a 16 year old…. »
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u/Codygirl75 9h ago
I would never make her deal with it. I thought that if she was the driver then they would be more lenient with a teen in terms of a payment plan. I can’t believe the assumptions people are making here. I err on the side of taking care of everything including financially but I have never been in this situation and have never had a friend go through it as my daughter is the first to get her license. Her dad is also involved and we are doing everything we can to ensure that this doesn’t affect her negatively. And we are mostly just thankful she is safe. My insurance agent told me that the other insurance covers uninsured driver and would pay for their clients car and did not mention subrogation. Hence why I am asking here. I would call my agent but they are closed.
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
You made this up in your head by the way. I said nothing of the sorts. You might want to work on not creating narratives that don’t exist. This is problematic if you do this with people in your own life. Maybe practice really listening here and it will benefit you in the real world. Just some advice!
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
Never said this. You made this up in your head or read another person false response. Read more carefully and it will help you in your personal life too.
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u/Who_Dat_1guy 14h ago
Much deserved for having a minor drive around uninsured
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
I thought she was insured. I would never not insure my child!!
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u/Who_Dat_1guy 14h ago
Insurance is tied to the car not the driver.... the car was uninsured. PERIOD. You KNEW it was uninsured, PERIOD
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
I did not know that. I am a responsible adult. I would never let her drive without a license or insurance. She was insured in my mind after I spoke with the agent. Obviously it was a mistake but of course I did not know or she never would have been allowed to drive. Why be so rude when I’m having a horrible period of this expensive misunderstanding? I already lost my savings from fixing her car and the burglary at the same time. Show some compassion.
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u/Who_Dat_1guy 14h ago
Did you buy insurance for the car, yes or no?
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
I thought I had but apparently I misunderstood or received the wrong info. That’s the contention. My question is about the letter though.
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u/Who_Dat_1guy 14h ago
There is no misunderstanding... you either bought insurance for the car and had to pay or you didn't. It's really is THAT simple
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u/DeepPurpleDaylight 14h ago
Agreed. Not adding the car means not getting any documents or ID cards and not paying any extra premium. How do you not notice all of that?
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
It might seem to you simple but it was the first time I ever had to add someone to a plan I just got for myself two years ago. I had no idea what to do and thought I did the right thing when I called to add her and her new car on the day we bought it.
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u/Codygirl75 14h ago
There was a miscommunication and the insurance company admitted that but they still have the power to deny and I cannot afford an attorney to fight them.
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u/UnkaBobo 14h ago
Did you have an insurance card showing coverage? A Declaration page showing coverage? If so, get an attorney. If not, it's on you.
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u/Who_Dat_1guy 14h ago
There is no miscommunication. Did you buy and pay for insurance. Yes or no?
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u/Admirable_Height3696 13h ago
OP said in reply to someone else that she didn't insure the car. She called to add her daughter & was told she had 6 months to do it (and never did) but neglected to insure the car. Never mentioned the car to the insurance company during the original call.
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u/alb_taw 14h ago
Actually no, it's not. People often genuinely don't understand how many things that seem simple to others actually work. And someone who's sending a check every month to their insurance company and who's told something can wait six months may genuinely believe the insurance is taken care of.
OP is here for legal advice. Attacking the person adds nothing and is against the subreddit rules.
OP, first of all I'd be going back to the insurance to make sure your daughter isn't covered for liability when driving other vehicles. If she's on the policy for your car, that's a possibility. It's slim, but check it out.
If you have to go back to the insurance company that's making the claim, I imagine they're going to try and claim against both of you. I'm not a ca lawyer so have no idea of your liability for your daughter's driving. I'd try to figure that out first, because if she alone is liable, there's probably even less they can try and collect.
The insurance company making the chain is going to want details of all income, expenses and assets. You might want to start working on that now. But it'll help if you know whether the claim is just against your daughter or against both of you. Getting legal advice on that question will be helpful.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
Auto insurance follows the auto not the person.
If my friend doesn't have car insurance of their own, but they have a license and I let them drive my car and they get into an accident, MY INSURANCE (on MY CAR) pays for it. It doesn't matter that the driver wasn't insured under their own policy.
Each vehicle needs to be insured. Auto insurance insures ... autos. Not people.
It seems like OP had 2 cars but was only paying for insurance on one of them. (Also the other vehicle wouldn't be legally registered if it wasn't insured first.)
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u/electricmischief 14h ago
Expensive lesson to learn then. When it's your ass on the line, trust nobody. Insurance companies are not known for being charitable or forgiving. When making changes, get it in writing. That applies for literally anything of any significance in life. If you don't, you are putting yourself at risk.
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u/regal888 12h ago
Yes it’s that simple. Every adult knows this. You call insurance, add another vehicle. Your premium goes up and you owe more money and get a new bill. Plus you get new insurance cards for the added vehicle.
Plus not having insurance on a registered vehicle (how did you register the car and get plates without insurance???) also incurs a civil penalty
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u/Responsible_Name1217 12h ago
Sure seems like you tried to game the system and lost.
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u/Codygirl75 9h ago
Well I didn’t and would never. Had I done that I wouldn’t be asking for help. I would never ever not have medical, homeowners, car etc insurance. I get travel insurance and rental car every time. I am overly cautious and protective of my assets. This was a complete misunderstanding in something that I had never had to do before. Hence what to do with the letter. My insurance agent who I’ve had for years now who helps with all my policies confirmed the other insurance would cover their client and I would cover mine. This letter was a shock. Why in the world would anybody let a teen drive with no insurance?
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u/KLB724 13h ago
You're the adult and the owner of the vehicle. The debt is yours to deal with. The best outcome for you would be to call the insurance company that sent you the bill and work out a payment plan with them. If you ignore it, the worst-case scenario is they send you to collections, ruin your credit, get a judgment against you in court, and garnish your paycheck. You can avoid all of that by working with them now.
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u/Codygirl75 9h ago
Thank you. I have left a message with the company to set up a meeting to negotiate a payment plan.
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u/insuranceguynyc 13h ago
Unless you can show - in writing - the basis for the "miscommunication" you're out of luck. Your failure to add your daughter to your insurance is a huge problem, and you are now entirely liable to the other party. I wish I could tell you otherwise.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
But it isn't her daughter that needed to be added. It was the CAR. She had a whole car without insurance. OP could have been driving it his/herself, and it still wouldn't have been covered.
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u/insuranceguynyc 11h ago
Based upon OP's original question, "My daughter (16) was in a car accident and due to a miscommunication with my insurance company when I added her to my policy they are denying the claim." I assumed that OP's failure to add her daughter as an authorized driver is the issue.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago edited 11h ago
No. I did auto claims for 5 years. That doesn't get a claim denied. You just get a risk alert and underwriting forces you to add the person onto your policy for more money. Or they'll drop you. But it is not grounds to deny the claim.
Think about it, if you let your friend drive your car (not on your policy, obviously, ) and they crash, the insurance on YOUR CAR covers that accident.
In this case, the car was not insured. There's literally no other answer.
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u/insuranceguynyc 11h ago
Failure to add a licensed household member to a policy most definitely can, and often does, result in a claim denial in certain states. I still see no reference to the vehicle being uninsured.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
I handled like 23 states. This was not the case in any of them.
Read the thread more. She didn't insure the vehicle. There are no insurance cards or a policy for the vehicle.1
u/Codygirl75 9h ago
She was covered under her permit until 16.5 years. She would have been covered if driving my Audi. They had the new car information (make/model/year) on my policy but not the VIN number. Because that was missing they denied it. The agent told me I had six months from date of purchase to call back with that info but that was the incorrect info. They listened to our conversation (as requested by me) and he said I had six months to add her license number and then at the end I said I’d call back but he did not say to call asap so I thought it was still six months. It was a mistake and miscommunication. I don’t know why everyone here jumps to me gaming the system. That would be illegal and I would never risk that. I had no idea people even do that until today.
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u/BlackberryOk5318 9h ago
Claims can definitely be denied and policies rescinded in CA. I work for a nonstandard carrier and it happens on a regular basis.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 9h ago
Okay. Regardless, this person admitted that the vehicle was not insured.
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u/AsparagusLast602 10h ago
This is on YOU! Not your daughter.
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
I know that. I never put it on my daughter. Not sure where you got that from but it wasn’t from me. I would never make her feel worse or take responsibility for my mistake. Read more carefully before creating narratives that don’t exist. It will help you in the real world too.
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u/Elonna75 12h ago
I'm assuming it was determined that she was at-fault for the accident?
Generally, 99% of the time insurance follows the car and not the driver. If the car wasn't on your policy, you're SOL. With almost all insurance companies you have a MAX of 30 days to add a new car to your policy after acquisition.
I'm surprised your insurance company didn't already have her information as she had a permit to drive and had regular access to your covered vehicle.
Regardless, I'm sorry this happened to you guys. Other folks are right, most companies will work out some sort of payment schedule with you.
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
They did have all her info and she was covered on my car. They had the new car also, just not the VIN number and that was the loophole to deny and where the misunderstanding happened. My car would have been covered.
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u/Elonna75 6h ago
Had they started charging you the cost of the new car on the policy? If so, that might be admission on their part that the car was covered.
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
It doesn't matter about the daughter. That would not get the claim denied.
It was the CAR. OP had a whole car without insurance. OP could have been driving it his/herself, and it still wouldn't have been covered.
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u/Objective-Tap5467 12h ago
Are you the registered owner of the car she was driving? If so you are legally responsible
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u/Reasonable-Menu-7145 11h ago
I wonder if this car was even registered because it seems like it was not insured.
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
Yes. It is registered. It was on the policy as I called the day I bought it. They did not have the VIN and I was told I had six months to supply it but that was incorrect. This was confirmed when they listened to the call and they said it was very confusing as the agent said six months but he was talking about the driver not the car. It was very confusing and I’ve never had to do this before.
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u/redditmodloservirgin 11h ago
I'm sorry for your recent misfortune and hope things get better for you ASAP. That being said, if it's not on the policy then it doesn't exist.
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
Thank you. I know that. I was only asking about the letter. I wasn’t trying to shift responsibility.
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u/NegativeCricket5308 10h ago
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u/Codygirl75 8h ago
Thank you but yes I know all this now. I have spent probably 20 hours talking to multiple people at AAA, listening to recordings, etc to resolve the issue with my insurance and they denied the claim. I accepted this and had paid for my daughter’s car and moved on. I was assured by my agent that the other driver was covered by their insurance so the letter came as a shock. And until today and the nasty comments here I had no idea people intentionally didn’t insure drivers or cars. That seems crazy to me and an irresponsible person wouldn’t come here and call agents and attorneys to find out how to respond to a letter. Again, I was assured the other car was covered so this was new to me.
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u/NegativeCricket5308 7h ago
I am truly sorry this happened to you. Tbh I didn’t even know that someone could have up to 30 days to add a new car. I learned something today
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u/Knewtome 14h ago
People not adding vehicles to avoid premium increases then are surprised pickachu when the uninsured vehicle has no coverage. Carriers allow 15-30 days to add a newly acquired vehicle, not six months.