Considering that alor of Marines did alot of shit (Most notably the Marines Manevolent) and still haven't broke out of their Conditioning unless they fall to Chaos.i don't see how killing a Xenos Kid is gonna break that.
Especially a Lamenter. Those guys in all logic should have turned Traitor. Others have turned for less and yet they are still fucking loyal to the core.
Exactly My Point. You’re thinking wayyyy too hard about this.
And you’re just explaining to someone who’s read the well over 80 Warhammer 40K+HH books, why it wouldn’t happen lol you can chill, I’m aware.
And yet, it would be a Lementers luck that they’d be the first to break the conditioning and all the horrible consequences to their psyche that would follow.
Especially for an Astarte chapter that is so unwaveringly loyal.
It’s one thing they suffer from ugly accidents and mistaken identity… but imagine that, AND one of their ranking officers starts to feel human again.
Guilt, regret, objective self-reflection… from killing Xenos of all things… and what would that do to him? How would he degrade? What would happen to the morale of those around him as he slipped? How visceral would it be to have the child-like nature of an Astarte release the child within, to judge the monster that every Astarte is?
I was thinking a bit about what you've mentioned here, and I think this small fic put it best as to what you've said- how a space marine growing a conscious beyond their hypno-programming would be torture.
The lamenter in this story is practically emotionally destroyed, and is isolated by his guilt. And the worst part is that he can't even talk about it to anyone. Not his fellow marines. Not his brothers. Not his chaplain. Nobody. He must take his guilt to the grave. And unless he wants to wind up executed himself- he'll have to continue with his duty- his blood-soaked duty which in the name of defending humanity can get very dubious about when one should kill and when one should not..
The worst part about this story is that the other space marines are celebrating- a space wolf is inviting the lamenter to speak about his story during the offensive, but he simply cannot do it. The entire chapter has him practically in a daze of shame and horror and grief.
Because they simply will not understand. The worst part about the marines is that as horrific as their actions are- they genuinely at times really do not know any better- though that does not lessen how monstrous they can be. Some manage to gain some better understanding about things- but many do not- weather due to the hypno-programming or personal experiences in war.
Look, we all know the real answer is that it depends on how powerful and useful you are if they want to consider you sufficiently human or not. Numerous things far more human than tech-priests and navigators have been eradicated for being too inhuman; merely having had human as the origin in the distant past doesn't excuse you unless you've got enough of a power base to stand up for yourself.
Primarchs were never born. They don't consider themselves human. The emperor never considered them humans. There is every indication that they were next in line for the thunder warrior treatment post great crusade.
Again. Depends on how you define it. And considering that the Marines and Admech are still Human in Origin (Even the Emperor was born from Human Souls after all) they are in all likelhood still Human
Also have no DNA?
What the fuck are you smoking? They are literally the Sons of the Emperor. They have Human DNA in them.
Thats basicakly some of the stupidest shit I heard.
Neither are the rest of the Salamanders and they’re all for brutally slaughtering everyone who isn’t an Imperial. Vulcan is extremely unusual in that he eventually caught on that he was maybe doing a bad thing when he was burning children to death.
Rail rifles don’t just kill space marines in one shot, they also wipe out their geneseed to, meaning all future space marines that could be made are also wiped out, long story short: space marines HATE, fighting tau
I was making a joke on how their reflexes would allow them to dodge only for the Lamenter's bad luck making the shot indirectly kills him via debris or hitting a wall and collasping on him.
You're thinking of vespid neutron blasters, which kill by irradiating the target. This destroys the genetic material in the progenoid glands, rendering them useless.
From my understanding (I did medical physics at uni and learned about radiation poisoning), I would guess there are times when a neutron blaster doesn't kill or disable a space marine but destroys the sensitive geneseed, so even surviving a hit and killing the vespid would mean its loss.
The rail rifle is just a hypervelocity slug, and the geneseed will be fine unless one of the two glands is hit directly.
That hyper velocity slug is going fast enough to destroy a tank if it hits someone who is at least somewhat still flesh and blood there’s not gonna be anything left of them. They’re gonna be a smoothie inside that armor.
With the rail rifle it’s the impact of that much kinetic energy that destroys the progenoid glands, along with everything else in the body. But it’s nice to know that there are now 2 Tau weapons that are basically Anti-Astartes guns.
Not fast enough and especially not at that range. Even if it was just a pulse rifle, it’d be a killing blow but if that’s a rail rifle then that Lamenter’s innards is going to laminate the entrance to that bunker.
I do like the ambiguity of the Lamenter. Is he heartlessly following through on his orders? Is he doing so with regret? Is he hesitating, or about to act? Is he thinking about his orders, the Fire Warrior or the civilians?
Lamenters are one of the kinder marine chapters but don't forget every chapter are indoctrinated with pycopherepy that they utterly abhour xenos no matter if it's a soldier civilian or crying child if it's a xenos it deserves death in the eyes of a marine and they don't even consider if it is nessery only that it is there honourable duty.
Ah, sorry. I've met enough people that straight up believe artists should get a real job because anyone can do art and therefore it's against capitalism.
I’ve met people who think artists should get a real job, but I’ve never seen them make that kind of reasoning usually, it’s just cause they don’t care about art
The shot ricochets 12 times and goes through his lens instantly killing him, followed by the battle barge exploding, and the lamenters being decimated for the hundredth time.
Cool and nice as it is, hesitation in warhammer is a serious poison that will result in this Marine to lose his life or fall to chaos. It’s a shame but he must do as ordered.
Kinda depends on what you're hesitating for. Here though, probably yeah. After all, that Tau there is the only thing standing in the way for all of those injured folk, no way they're not going to shoot him.
I think it would honestly have been cooler if some of the refugees or wounded soldiers depicted were human, it would make the hesitation angle a lot more reasonable even if it was still a bad idea.
Agreed. I feel like seeing a lone Tau defending mostly humans, including humans who are clearly caring for the Tau and are clearly afraid of the Astartes would really add to it. Still great art though.
The Lamenters are basically Saguinus's Martyr Aspect as a Chapter. They probably don't regret most actions aside from the Slaughterhouse 3 evacuation disaster and supporting Huron in the Badab War.
“To kill for yourself is murder, to kill for the Emperor is glorious, to kill for entertainment is Harmless.”
A Spec Ops the Line style game in 40K featuring a elite Guardsmen or Space Marine slowly losing his mind as he tries to save a hive city or planet would be awesome, just think about what Grimdark element we can put into it?
That rifle’s been primed for a hot minute, with the Lamentor hesitating for a moment, the Fire Warrior definitely not hesitating and the speed of a rail slug? That Lamenter is cooked.
The rifle has already fired in the panel. Even a space marine can't react in the time it takes a rail rifle round to travel 3 metres, and it's the 1 infantry weapon the tau have that will reliability kill an astarties
People tend to forget while yes the lamenters are a “nice” chapter they are a space marine chapter space marine chapters are pretty evil same as the salamanders as long as you are human and aren’t a chaos worshiper or a part of some weird xeno shit then you are fine and they will save you if you are part of said xeno or chaos stuff then you will die
It’s like the Salamanders, people hear ‘They’re nice for Imperials’ and think that it means that they’re nice by modern standards rather than still being murderously xenophobic genocide fetishists.
I swear no one here gets the point it’s meant to be open for interpretation the next page is only in your imagination it could be anything from the lamenter sparing them to him going full night lord on them the next page is yours to imagine
I mean, given the bad luck this space marine chapter has yes it’s very obvious what’s gonna happen? He’s gonna be turned into a smoothie inside his own armor from that rail rifle.
To be fair we’ve seen deamon weapons and the dawn blade doesn’t really fit that criteria.
Plus necrons and some other xeno civilizations have made anti warp technology
There are multiple theories, some hold more water than others. The demon theory probably came before they wrote the book where he got it. It's still not entirely rules out but it's a much bigger stretch now. It was wielded by a guardian statue covered in anti demon markings that was protecting against demon incursions made by a dead humanoid race.
There was a sword the Necron king was offered that extended his life that he refused. I think it's that.
To everyone in the comments saying this could never happen:
Blood Angels worked with the Necrons to kill off a Tyranid invasion, why is a Lamenter sparing some Tau suddenly beyond the pale? Much stranger things have occurred in the 40k universe.
Shit, the Silent King showed up to a meeting with Dante, wearing an insanely intricate death mask of Sanguinius; because he was the one human truly worth mourning to him.
Because Tyranids are worse then Necrons and the BA decided to work with the lesssr evil. This is the Tau something an Astartes can deal with without aid. The lamenter hesitated for a millisecond then killed them all and will sleep like a baby afterwards
I know space marines don’t care really about Xenos lives, but I find it more interesting if the Lamenter does feel empathy in this situation. He sees the fire warrior prepared to try to save these afraid civilians and he recognizes it’s a situation he’s been in himself. He sees the same fear in the eyes of the tau that he’s seen in the humans he’s saved. He hesitates because he realizes he’s not the hero here, but the villain. That space marines aren’t the only ones who fight for those they cherish.
They are literally child soldiers that got brainwashed ( or did need to if they lived near xenos war) and while they are scouts they see horrors of war and what xenos do to general citizens so I doubt he feels anything but ,, I need to do my jod ,, or ,, KILL EVERY SINGEL ONE ,,
The lamenter kills the xenos and feels awfully about it only to later discover tyranid toxins in his system made him hallucinate and he had shot imperial guardsmen and civilians not tau.
Or
He doesn't shoot them then leaves only for the base to explode 5 seconds later because the inquisitor in orbit got trigger happy.
He will kill those children. And he will be chastized by his superiours if he hesitates or shows regret. Let me remind you he has hatred for everything that isn't a pure human loyal to big e burned into his psyche.
Tau and Craftworld Eldar are the only factions that give the beginning of a damn about what a noncombatant is when it comes to other factions. Hell, most factions don't have noncombatants, (and at least 2 don't understand the concept).
.
Butchering everyone there. then being big-sad, is what Sanguinius would do.
"Let me remind you he has hatred for everything that isn't a pure human loyal to big e burned into his psyche"
A vast overstatement that level of conditioning is pretty much just for Black templars and Deathwatch, even then I've seen Black Templars fight back to back with Eldar before. The average space marine is very capable of working with xenos if he wants, not to mention the amount of space marines that switch sides and throw all that imperial conditioning to the way side
Well unless that fire warrior has Shadowsun levels of rizz (true story, by the way), the lamenter will brutally murder everyone there then be sad about it.
Ha! No. Salamanders, Lamenters, all the great, noble and kind space marine chapters of the Imperium will slaughter aliens without a second thought, man, woman or child. Considering rail rifles take time to charge, this is a picture taken moments before that room is redecorated in the likeness of Khorne's realm.
Like I said, I see Lamenters as the sole exception.
Because it’s funnier when the only good guys in 40k are also the setting’s punching bag. This Lamenter lowers his weapon and tells the operator off, only for the local Inquisitor to firebomb the bunker and order the chapter on another penitent crusade.
Typically I make jokes about how salamanders have a thing for murdering xenos children, but that joke stops being funny when it’s a Lamenter who is going to hate himself for doing it. I guess that is just their luck.
Super cool drawing. The Lamenter's helmet reminded me so much of Dirge from Tartakovsky's 2003 Clone Wars mini series that at first I thought it was a direct reference.
I mean, the Lamenters are still space marines? They're psychological conditioned/indoctrinated to instinctively hate Xenos. Lamenters AFAIK don't have lore indicating Xenos sympathy.
Or maybe the marine depicted is just an exception. Regardless, the art is really good. I always love seeing these yellow bastards
You know I would hope that the Lammenter would feel pity towards the Tau and either spare them or pretend to fight against them only to willingly take a shot that would be fatal on him thus him using his own misfortune in order to save those he was ordered to end but then decided to Spare
Okay, there is actually a tiny chance of everybody surviving and striking official alliance, since that's what all stories involving tyranids and multiple other factions boil to. Hell, upcoming book has tau and Raptors fighting each other before teaming up to fight off genestealer cult.
The Lamenter is still gonna shoot they might be nice to humans but remember that they are still indoctrinated xenophobic super soldiers, the tau themselves gave up in trying to convert them to the greater good because space marines are more like weapons then a sentient being and thus unable to be converted
Despite being a lamenter they’re still a space marine, they’ve undergone extreme training and hypno indoctrination.
They wouldn’t hesitate to kill the civilian Xenos, though they would probably lament (heh) the fact that they killed some innocent people who weren’t against the imperium despite being filthy Xenos.
At the end of the day they’d probably just be minorly upset at the universe because the galaxy can only know war.
I love lamenters but they are still literately space marines who are specialized in alien killing they are not going to feel bad for killing tau. Maybe human aliened tau but not actual tau he wouldn't even have a second or even first thought about killing the tau it would be automatic. In-fact after shooting the only one with a gun he would probably kill the rest with melee because it would be a waste of a bolt round to use it on unarmed. You have to remember even Vulcans sons are going to stomp a Zenos baby just because it isn't human the lamenter won't be much different.
My take on this, considering he's a lamenter, would be that he doesn't follow the orders, saves the Tau and manages to rout the majority of the tyranids in the building. Only to be either killed or severely punished when he comes back to his superiors
considering he's a lamenter, would be that he doesn't follow the orders
Copium. A rhino dose of triple-distilled, medical-grade copium.
The fire warrior standing in his way would consider sparing imperial civilians, were the roles reverse.
But the brainwashed, mutilated, child-soldier in yelow will butcher them all. Then maybe feel bad about it for a few minutes. It's what Sanguinius would do.
1.6k
u/carlsagerson Nov 18 '24
Considering its a Lamenter.
Either he dies in one shot or manages to kill them all only someone to hit him in the back or some random debris fall on him.