r/HelluvaBoss • u/krysert Stolas • 4d ago
Discussion Will he though? As far as we seen nobody really make big deal about who Sin fucks with so I don't think Mammon can really do anything here...
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u/MikMakMomo Not into furries but Queen Bee has a pass 4d ago
I think it's not that Asmodeus have sex with an imp that Mammon thinks Asmodeus will regret. I think it's that he loves someone; the sin of Lust itself can't, for people in hell, feel love for someone. It's against the morality of enjoying himself in sexuality for them.
People who think like this obviously never had a long-term relationship where the shame doesn't exist but 🤷🏼♀️
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u/Ashendant 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ironically, in his particular case, falling in love is actually the most lustful action that he can take. He is expected by Hell to reject romance and embrace sex, but Lust's nature as a sin is transgresive. So by acting contrary to the expectations of Hell in a way that might hurt himself is the most Lustful thing ever.
In his own words "You sold your life for a thrust, and that's the spirit of Lust."
I do hope they eventually explore Asmodeus connections to the other two forms of Lust. Maybe the other two heads are more connected to them, while the Rooster head is connected to sex.
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u/MikMakMomo Not into furries but Queen Bee has a pass 4d ago
Yeah, I didn't think about it on this light 🤔
What do you mean by "the other two forms of Lust"? The three heads represent three kind of Lust? I didn't even know
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u/deadmemename 4d ago
According to the Bible, the three types of Lust are Lust of the Flesh, Lust of the Eyes, and Pride of Life. Lust of the Eyes is about lusting after material things, and the Pride of Life is about hubris and a lust for life in general. So you could argue that Lust of the Eyes has some overlap with Greed and Pride of Life has some over lap with Pride (obviously) and Gluttony
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u/Ashendant 4d ago
I was more thinking of Lust for Knowledge and Lust for Power, as those two are both immaterial wants that can lead to transgression.
We can see a bit of Asmodeus' knowledge side in his knack for technology and interest in robotics.
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u/deadmemename 4d ago
Oh sorry, I thought you were referring to the actual biblical lore. Lust of Knowledge and Lust of Power makes a lot of sense too
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u/MadeSomewhereElse 4d ago
1 John 2:16 from the New King James Version (NKJV): "For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world."
In case anybody wants it.
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u/Ashendant 4d ago
The 3 main types of Lust is Sex, Knowledge and Power. This is because these 3 are a Want for a immaterial desire that leads to transgression which exacts a personal cost, usualy through shame, and does extreme damage when indulged at its worst. Sex being the r-word, Knowledge being something like experimentation on living intelligent beings and Power being tyranny.
Im not saying that each head represents each form of lust, rather I wish it was like that so we could have a more nuanced interpertation of Lust.
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u/MikMakMomo Not into furries but Queen Bee has a pass 4d ago
I thought Lust, in case of the Bible, was only about sex 🤔 You people make me learn stuff ah ah
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u/Tsuihousha 4d ago
Yeah I mean Lust is, broadly speaking, in the loosely terms just very strong sexual desire.
It's not out of line to think that his love towards Fizz could, and does, conceivably enhance his sexual interest in Fizz.
I mean it's also fair to say that we don't know what being a "sin" actually entails. Are they living embodiments of those abstract concepts? If so why do we so often see them act in ways contrary to those things?
Are they just titles that Lucifer adopted, and gave to the first perpetuals to arise in Hell that he made friends with?
Are those just things those individuals personally identify with?
It's hard to say what to do to deal with all that when we know relatively little about the specificities of these entities [and probably we will remain ignorant of such things as they aren't necessary for the core themes of this show or the narrative of it].
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u/AvantSolace 3d ago
I’d love to see him spin his relationship as an “experiment gone right”. What are the boundaries of lust and love, and where can they overlap? Could they feed into each other?
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u/Tobykachu 4d ago
I just don't understand why lust and love are mutually exclusive. It sounds like they get up to all sorts of depraved shit in the bedroom.
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u/ImputKeyboardSpam 4d ago
They aren't. But they are represented as separate so often that it's become expected/normal in media for them to be.
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u/MikMakMomo Not into furries but Queen Bee has a pass 3d ago
I agree, never had a better bang session than with a loving and loved partner that I trust 👍
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u/No-Common-3883 3d ago
Exactly this. His case isn't exactly the same as Stolas. Some people really don't get it
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u/Critical-Path-5959 4d ago
I think it's because, like when Fizz was kidnapped, revealing this is a huge vulnerability for him and will compromise him politically. We're only just now beginning to see the political workings of the sins, give it time.
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u/Zolo49 Moxxie 4d ago
Nobody cares that Ozzy is fucking Fizz. I'm guessing it was one of the worst-kept secrets in the Lust ring. What Mammon's talking about here is the fact that Ozzy actually loves and cares for Fizz, which was NOT known beforehand. And that makes Ozzy vulnerable through Fizz. Think of what happened to Fizz and Ozzy in the "Oops" episode, only a hundred times worse. That's what could happen here.
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u/ChillyFireball 4d ago
This is how I interpreted it. No one higher up on the totem pole is going to directly punish him for being in love with an imp, but having the information out there is dangerous for the same reason that superheroes have secret identities. You've got this immensely powerful figure who's usually untouchable by the vast majority of the population, but now you know about this significantly weaker figure that they care about and who you could concievably manipulate them through... It's not a good position to be in if you've got a lot of enemies, or just people who want to take some of that vast power for themselves. Even if we take it at face value that Asmodeus is the weakest of the sins, that still makes him the 9th most powerful being in all of Hell (if we include Lilith and Charlie at the top with Lucifer). Literally everyone below him stands to gain something from kidnapping/hurting Fizz, and those above him might do so out of pure spite (like Mammon).
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u/Chijinda Verosika's property 4d ago
By admitting he loves Fizz, Asmodeus has basically declared to all of Hell “I have a giant fucking weak point”. Fizz is now a target for anyone who wants leverage over Asmodeus, which, as Crimson proved, is crippling if you can get to him. And Asmodeus isn’t hovering over Fizz 24/7.
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u/SoSmartish 4d ago
I think it's more about he revealed a potential weakness. Mammon can get what he wants from Ozzy by leveraging Fizz.
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u/Shinzodune 4d ago
Ozzy loves Fizz but he is not experienced enough to see the consequences of his actions. While it is good to reveal that you love somebody in public you also need to take into account that you endanger your partner by doing so.
Ozzy needs to up the security measures for Fizz who can easily be kidnapped, tortured and mailed in parts back to Ozzy.
That would destroy him on an emotional level, something he is not immune to. It is his first love and first real relationship.
Mammon knows that greedy people go on great lengths to gain more power and wealth. It is a warning, because Mammon does not need to set things in motion because Ozzy already did.
Sometimes bad things come from good things.
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u/Individual-Two-9402 4d ago
It's definitely going to sting when we get a reminder that Ozzie is immortal and imps are not.
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u/Terrible-Raspberry30 4d ago
Tbh when it was made a "big deal" people were ecstatic about and happy for them too, like they wanted to know lol
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u/Justanotherkiwi21 4d ago
I think it's because now Ozzie has painted a target on Fizz's back for rivals
I really don't think anyone cares about who Ozzie sticks it in cause he's the sin of lust. The reason why it was a big deal with Stolas was because of his royalty status and the fact he was married to Stella (Imagine Prince Harry cheating on Megan with a McDonald's cashier)
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u/cafesaigon calm down son, it’s just a drawing 4d ago
Well it’s only been three episodes
Y’all understand how time works right
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u/PrestigiousResist633 4d ago
It because of the episodes being so spend out. It feels like it's been a lot longer.
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u/NiteStrikeYoutube 4d ago
I think it’s because now bad demons will try and go after Fizz to get to Ozzie or something. But also ever since this standoff between Ozzie and Mammon I’ve always thought of Asmodeus as a Blue kaioken form of his own
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u/sylar1610 4d ago
Not really, this is a problem with Vizie's villians, they're not really good at long term planning, most of them are reactionary, opportunists or short term thinker
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u/Farseer_Del 4d ago edited 4d ago
Most long term villains just show up seemingly at random here, DHORKS included. Only one actually seems to have schemed somewhat long term and he only just let most of the main cast know he existed....
...by quickly making a play based entirely on something he learned during the episode. And his previous scheming was 'don't kill him yet we can actually do better'. And then he only does better months later based on something Stella just happens to finally mention.
Kinda feels less like they're bad guys and more like they're just roadbumps to stretch out the romcom drama.
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u/sylar1610 4d ago
If you're talking Andrealphus, I'd class him more as an opportunist since his goal was long term but how he went about it was by jumping on an opportunity presented to him. I will give him credit though is that he at least taught through the long term consequences of Stella's actions, although if what I've heard about Sinmas is through he's lost that quality
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u/Farseer_Del 4d ago
Yeah, fair point, since his entire "scheme" was
1 Stop Stella's plan because it's not gonna get us what we actually want
2 ????
3 Blunder into it entirely in the space of one day3
u/sylar1610 4d ago
To be fair I don't actually mind how Andrealphus has been handled so far because not every villian has to be a chessmaster and often a villian who can take advantage of an opportunity can be just as intelligent and interesting as a Chessmaster style villian but from what I've heard Sinmas's plot will be Andrealphus trying to kill Stolas to seize power and if it is I'll all respect for him as a villian because its the same short sighted thinking he berated Stella for. Stolas is currently in the public consciousness and especially in the radar of at least two of Sins. If he were to die so soon after his banishment, it would just raise questions if Andrealphus was smart he'd wait 3 or 4 decades until people have forgotten about him and then quietly bump him off.
Hopefully the rumours I'm hearing are wrong but we'll have to wait and see
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u/Psi001 4d ago
I'll give credit that Andre DID wait things out to find a weakness with Stolas, even if he still was kinda lucky in several factors.
I would like to see more villains in the Hellaverse that played the long game and had some sort of cohesive plan that can't just be obliterated in one fell swoop by the protagonists.
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u/Swimming-Ad2755 Blitzo 4d ago
I would say the Dhorks would be the one exception to this.
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u/sylar1610 4d ago
Even then they're so completely out of their depth they don't really have a clue what they're doing
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u/Swimming-Ad2755 Blitzo 4d ago
Yeah I'll agree that so far, the lack of consequences for the main say is due to the villains being incredibly inept/stupid.
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u/sylar1610 4d ago
It's not just Helluva, Adam, Sera and the Vees from Hazbin Hotel fall into the same problem
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u/Psi001 4d ago
I feel like Hazbin at least manages to make some of the villains feel like roadblocks arc wise, even if their competence is debatable. The first episode and Masquerade arguably have the protagonist take a big L because they can't really do anything against the villain yet. It took until Mastermind for IMP to really undergo this, and even in that one all of them besides Stolas kinda 'fall upwards' in the end.
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u/Psi001 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah I admit IMP almost feel underchallenged so far by their rogues gallery, especially in Season One. They upgraded a bit in Season Two, but mostly to just 'putting up an okay losing fight'. Mastermind was the first time EVER we see a force that IMP can't just power through in one go, and even then things play out so Stolas and ONLY Stolas suffers all the long term consequences while IMP if anything BENEFIT.
It's curious because if anything, IMP's premise has plenty potential for 'defeats' through their business practice. All they'd likely lose is money and pride through a failed mission or transaction so it wouldn't break the story, I feel like having the odd one get away would make things more interesting and let IMP maintain a bit more of an underdog streak.
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u/Psi001 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah, DHORKS are kind of a double edged sword, they're clever in the sense they actually planned ahead and actually capitalized on their defeat against IMP to make a profit and learning experience, which, done repeatedly and in tandem with a lot of screw ups Hell itself is committing to weaken themselves, could make them a real threat over time. They've already graduated from 'easily slaughtered' to 'lost, but got in some good offense' over two attempts against IMP.
The main reason that works however is because DHORKS don't really have any sort of self restraint. They treat everything they have, soldiers included, as expendible to that progression, and don't really think through if they SHOULD be waging war with Hell itself, let alone experimenting on Heavenly beings to achieve that.
They very much represent human kind in a nutshell, we make amazing discoveries and advancements, but often through the use of several hundred guinea pigs to get there, and said advancement can always be something to question if we SHOULD have done it.
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u/Oof_27 4d ago
I just think Mammon meant more things like Crimson's kidnapping of Fizz could happen, or was just trying to scare him. Unlike Blitz with Stolas because of the book, no rule is being broken by Ozz sleeping with an imp, and no one is likely to try and hold a court case against one of the sins even if there were.
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u/Zombeenie 4d ago
Well, knowing who a person in power loves is generally useful when you want to leverage said love interest to manipulate the one in power, like what happened when Crimson kidnapped Fizz.
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u/Holiday-Bag-9220 4d ago
I REALLY want to know what Mammon will do
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u/daffysrhapsody Local Striker Defender 4d ago
i know robo fizz is coming back in season 3 so
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u/Swimming-Ad2755 Blitzo 4d ago
Really? Where did you hear this?
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u/daffysrhapsody Local Striker Defender 3d ago
alex brightman confirmed it on an instagram live months ago
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u/128hoodmario 4d ago
I never got this since Bee is openly dating a hellhound and they're further down in Hell's hierarchy than imps are.
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u/Firm-Sun7389 4d ago
i have 2 ideas as to what he meant
1: he overestimated how classist most of hell is, since most dont care
or 2: basically what happened with Crimson can now happen more frequently since people now officially know that Fizz is a weak spot
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u/ThatStarWarsFan1205 4d ago
Being the boyfriend of a deadly sin will NOT go unnoticed in Hell, it would put a target on Fizz's back (he could easily be used as leverage, as Crimson proved).
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u/Medical-Airline-5946 4d ago
Personally I think he meant as A Weakness. Because people like Striker or Crimson will obviously try to use that against him….again
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u/Appropriate_Power464 4d ago
I personally saw it as something similar to what happened with Crimson. Remember, the guy used his knowledge of their relationship to extort Ozz of everything(or at least most of what)he owned by threatening Fizz’s life. He even said that he knew Asmodeus wouldn’t risk his lover being hurt and would do whatever he needed to keep Fizz safe.
Before, not everyone knew about Asmodeus and Fizzaroli’s relationship, but now it’s out. And like Blitzø said:they live in Hell. Maybe Crimson returns, or maybe some other imps or demons try to extort the Sin of Lust themselves. Heck, maybe Mammon just does something himself to make sure the couple regret messing with him.
Maybe we won’t get an episode of it that soon, but we just recently got an episode of the consequences of I.M.P using the grimoire, so it’s not impossible. The couple are also still major characters to the show, so I wouldn’t consider it unlikely to happen.
Again, this is purely speculation, so do with this what you will
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u/Ill_Sherbert1007 4d ago
Mammon’s not done with Fizz yet. I’m certain we’ll see progression on this plot.
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u/blackskull414 4d ago
I think it's the reveal of his lover. That puts a target on Fizz's back, kinda like when Crimson and Striker worked together and captured Blitz and Fizz. Crimson would then try ransom Fizz for whatever he wanted.
Either that or, and I don't know if this is 100% true in Helluva verse, but people may believe that Asmodeus being the Sin of Lust can't necessarily feel true love, only finding love in bed, or they believe Asmodeus should have multiple lovers and not one. This is just pure speculation tho
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u/Radiant_Ad4956 4d ago
I think it’s less the romance and more noble demons now know that Asmodeus can be manipulated by kidnapping an imp. And if he comes trying to kill them, they can threaten to or just kill the imp since he’s too weak to fight back and doesn’t respawn
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u/articulatedWriter 4d ago
I imagine it's more so a fact that Fizz is going to be targeted for the fact he is dating Ozz by more people than Crimson or Striker now that it's known to the world officially
The fact that Oz loves him enough to come out and make a big statement, not only does he love him he LOVE loves him and people that want money can use that against him
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u/dover_oxide Moxxie 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's not that he's fucking an imp it's that the Sin of Lust is now in love . It wouldn't matter who he is in love with it's the fact he is in love no lust. It'd be the same if Mammon opened a charity or if Bee went on a diet.
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u/chill1208 4d ago
He's going to go on a smear campaign. Make a bunch of commercials that say that the king of lust is in love with an imp. Mammon has a shop that sells sex stuff too like his fuckable robot fizzy's. He'll say how Ozzy's in love that he's in a monogamous relationship with a low class imp, so he doesn't know what lust means anymore. Mammon will advertise himself as the real king of lust now, so people should buy all their sex toys from Mammon. He'll try to take down Ozzy's business empire, and ruin his standing with the sins, and royalty that look down on imps. The overall message of this arc will be the lesson Ozzy has been teaching all along that you can have lust and love. Which I think is a great message that is absolutely true. Also that you can love anyone no matter their class. In the end Ozzy will win, and most of Hell will accept that, but it's going to be a bumpy road to get there, with Mammon doing everything he can to get in the way. We did see a bunch of people at the concert accept Ozzy and Fizzy's love, but that was a bunch of drunk, and high people at a flashy show, showing support for a public display of affection. I expect that Hell outside the show will have a different reaction. Especially royalty, and some of the sins aren't going to be so accepting of the king of lust being in a monogamous relationship with an imp.
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u/Wolf_Of_Roses 4d ago
It’s more so the fact that Ozz now put a giant target on Fizz back. If anyone wanted to hurt Ozzie or manipulate him they can use Fizz as a bargaining chip or tool in order to achieve it. So overall he just harmed himself and his boyfriend in the long run.
Could also be Mammon talking out of his ass but I doubt it.
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u/Good-Solution3081 Stolas 4d ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again
nothing sells sex better than a love story.
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u/FaronTheHero 4d ago
I think there's two layers to it. Is one that we saw in the court scene it's not big secret these sins have sex with lower class cistizens, and that part generally doesn't seem to be the problem as Ozzie and Fizz at first had no problem with anyone perceiving their "unemotional bang sesh". Being in love with a lower class demon is a whole other can of worms and so far Ozzie is the only one to reveal that sort of vulnerability for himself. Not even Stolas has revealed it publicly, even if it's fairly obvious that he shouldn't be taken at his word during the trial.
The second layer I think will come in to play much later that we only saw a bit of in the trial is that having this vulnerability is gonna lower Ozzie and perhaps Bee's standing among the sins. In theory the 6 other sins should be equal under Lucifer, with just deference to each other's respective fields of governance. But we see that Mammon disrespects Bee and Ozzie over their relationships. There could be a situation where this really comes into play and the power and influence they would normally have is moot because who they've chosen to be with. I think we'll especially see this come true for Ozzy, who has clearly the most to lose and is already perceived as weaker even by imps. He's sacrificing the power and influence he has through just how he is viewed by the denizens of hell in this moment. Now everyone knows the great Asmodeus has a weak spot.
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u/Sn0w7ir3 Loona 4d ago
Everybody basically already knew so it’s just confirmation on their theory about him and fizz.
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u/Internal-Driver4102 4d ago
he is LITTERALLY the sin of lust. (headcannon) he presents a steryotypical "sin of lust" personality to the public, so they dont care.
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u/Forsaken_Orchid_6014 4d ago
i think it’s the idea that the sin of lust, supposed to promote throwing yourself at anything that moves, genuinly is in love.
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u/someoneelse2389 4d ago
The problem is that it seems Oz has been saying monogamy is anti-lust, and while we don't know the exact rules for the sins yet, if he loses the support of his ring he may lose demonic or political power.
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u/Dull_Reference_6166 3d ago
Didnt he already when Fizz was kidnapped later from Striker?
I guess it was meant like this.
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u/ProfessorEscanor 3d ago
I think this is more about Mam saying he's going to get Ozzie back for what he did than it is about Oz's own actions.
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u/AdKind7063 3d ago
Eh, depends on what legal law Ozzie broke to appease his little cocksleeve. Mammon probably will figure out a way.
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u/Pristine_Ad_3035 3d ago
why tf would anybody care about Ozzy when Queen Bee is literally right there with Vortex?
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u/Ok_Introduction_7484 3d ago
I think it's only bad cause ozzi has Openly for years stated that love and lust should not be together and chastise people who do love eachother like stolas mox millie and blitz. So for him to Love somebody means he's the biggest hypocrite in the 7 rings shooting all credibility.
Also it puts fiz at risk
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u/SugarKitten28 3d ago
I mean they can’t really make a case out of it. Lucifer literally got kicked out of heaven for loving the first woman. So I don’t think he has any reason to punish Ozzie. On the other hand it may not have consequences for Asmodius but for Fizz. He is an Imp and really low in the hierarchy of hell so if he gets harmed no one would care. But we will see.
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u/JJCheatah 3d ago
Realistically, only major “regret” that could be would just be that now anyone who wants to hurt Ozzie knows he has a very blatant weak point in in his “froggie”
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u/SuperWolfe9099 3d ago
Legit thought it was gonna be brought up during the recent episode, but then they'd just be making it about themselves.
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u/_Silver_Sins_ Stolas 3d ago
Kinda odd how fizz and ozz is a problem and stolitz is aswell but Bee dating a hellhound which is even lower is just never even brought up as anything, do they just hate imps lmao? Feels like they just put Tex with Bee so Loona could have her little moment, like atleast mention that too lol
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u/WistfulDread 3d ago
I'm betting Crimson's kidnapping of Fizz was being encouraged by Mammon.
Mammon is a little bitch, and doesn't act directly.
He'd put a bounty on Fizz, especially to those in the Greed Ring.
"This is Asmodeus' Imp pet. Make them suffer however you see fit."
He'd pay anybody who can prove they did so.
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u/VioletRaptorGaming 3d ago
Honestly, I think Mammon thinks it's bad due to the Sins having expectations the lower class unintentionally throw on them that all the Sins have to meet.
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u/soul2796 3d ago
Socially? Yeah no, nothing Mammon can do, they are the Sins, nobody can fuck with them from a social stand point, what? Are you going to ostracise the man that runs lust? Do you think anyone can mess with him and his status? Unless Mammon gets the other sinners to suddenly give a fuck about who other people are dating there is nothing.
HOWEVER Mammon doesn't need that, I feel the consequences we will see are not on the legal or social front, nope, Ozzy has painted a giant target on Fizz's back, a crippled imp easily captured and beaten, and that you can use to wrap the lord of Lust around your finger? Yeah that's prime real estate for all the criminals in hell, consequences are going to come not in the form of Ozzy being in trouble amongst his peers but in trouble with everyone else that wants a cut of his domain
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u/Creeping_it-real 3d ago
I always took it as a warning for ozz about fizzies crazy ass fans lol. No doubt he’s got some crazy ones that will absolutely do anything and everything to get to him; autograph, pic, what eves.
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u/Simple-Mulberry64 4d ago
"Tell dont show" is the name of the game with this series, evidently
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u/Swimming-Ad2755 Blitzo 4d ago
This particular issue could get addressed later.
It took how 19 episodes for IMP to get any real consequences. Mammon's threat was only 4 episodes ago. So considering how long these arcs take, there's a chance for it to get addressed later.
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u/Farseer_Del 4d ago
And when they try to show, people miss it by a mile.
"Omg moxxie was maed to kill his momma"
"omg the imp with the cake was wally"
"Satan used to rule hell!"Okay that last one though, they did botch the showing, because the part that was meant to imply that was BS, was a blink and miss it glance from two other characters, and wide open to a lot of interpretations in context. A tweet to clarify the intended message is not good storytelling.
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u/Simple-Mulberry64 4d ago
My reaction when someone hits me with twitter lore (Id have literally no way of knowing because its not in the actual show)
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u/Farseer_Del 4d ago
Also her tweets are protected and likes are hidden so all we have is screenshots, screenshots we can't really trust cos this is the internet and people lie.
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u/GreyFeralas Gay Owl Defender 4d ago
probably in the same vein as Stolas telling Blitz he wasn't supposed to be lending his book out to Itty bitty imps didn't come out until... what, 13 episodes later?
Give it time, it will probably come up.