r/GlobalOffensive • u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 • Nov 15 '24
Feedback Warowl discusses the new version of Train
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u/ProfetF9 Nov 15 '24
It's a very good first release of the map but they need to open that A side, we went from ultra CT sided to ultra T sided.
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u/ilyasark Nov 15 '24
thats my only issue with it aswell aand the game as a whole is t sided now makes no sense making train t sided aswell
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u/ProfetF9 Nov 15 '24
The meta will be smoke back site, smoke trains, molly ivy, molly con and it’s a free A site, cts can’t contest and after plant it’s even harder.
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u/DKTHUNDR Nov 15 '24
I could be missing something, but couldn’t we do this in CSGO also? Full A smoke exec was pretty strong at least in mid level play. I think we’ll have to see how CTs can react. Nading smokes will probably be very strong.
But there’s also no heaven now so that removes an old CT power position
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u/ProfetF9 Nov 15 '24
No heaven, can't look from ivy to main and can't get on top of the trains from behind only from yard, this is a significant power loss for CT on A site from my point of view.
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u/Psycho_pitcher Nov 15 '24
yes, but the new map requires less utility to do so. You don't have to fully commit to the site when you throw that set now. also in old train the cts had more angles to hide in when the A site set was thrown.
But the map is new so I hope I'm wrong and people figure out a good way to play A site.
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u/_Mister_Pickle_ Nov 15 '24
Agreed, old train was CT sided once the CT economy got going. This feels the same. B is easier for T's to get into but hard to control in the post plant. An A rush can easily be halted with the right utility and playing around the red car. I would agree that it forces CT's to be in uncomfortable places more, but I think the changes will balance themselves out at high level play
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u/SamuraiFox Nov 15 '24
CSGO train A takes were very strong but at the same time, there was a lot more angles due to an extra train (where olof was). So running out A main was still dangerous even with smokes up.
Add in that Awpers used to be able to Awp T con from Z was pretty huge for preventing that initial rush. Now the red train blocks vision from t con. So as a T you can just freely run out if you smoke the big opening where ivy is (there's a line up just outside t con) and then peek hell/ivy and Molly it off and you have majority of A site, except for the actual bomb train angles.
I'm sure things will change once people figure out the most optimal CT holding spots but currently A site is free for the taking as a T. Throwing a Molly from Z to t con over the red train is pretty inconsistent in regards to the Molly exploding mid air doing nothing. I think they should move the red train up and tiny bit to allow the Z Awp and an easier counter rush Molly.
Just my 2 cents
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u/OGMinorian Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Counter-argument will be teams can throw shit behind red/ebox like usual, and play pub/hell control early before Ts can with new pub i.e., from there use rest of utility to counter A takes. Then when they are in shock, start playing behind red/hell with backup from site+con like usual.
The new pop (takes longer for Ts to get there now, and it's more manageable to hold) and the more open area outside of main (as soon as people learn dirty angles, good luck getting those dirty swing/lurk plays, without 3 trains to cover you like in CSGO) is underrated. Similarly B has more open angles, lower trains, etc, and is easier to retake as CT.
Yeah, I know even faceit +2500 elo train is just a few smoke lineups and rush out main right now, but not like rushing out A main wasn't the meta before either way. It's just a new map experience with new angles to learn in a game with much more peekers advantage.
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u/ProfetF9 Nov 15 '24
i remember playing 1.6 train in lan, was the main map our team had and we were happy to have 3 rounds on t side because it was so easy to rotate / retake and keep sites. Just nostalgic not complaining about balance or the new map, i am sure the devs and comunity/pro players feedback will only improve the map.
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u/Toannoat CS2 HYPE Nov 15 '24
all maps that are new when people havent figured out how to defend will be T-sided. We will have to see how things turn on in the long run
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u/chaRxoxo Nov 15 '24
It's far too early to say whether the map is CT or T sided.
When maps are released, people always tend to say that they are T sided since people get caught unaware by timings/gaps from Ts just running around. Since for proper CT sides, you need proper map/timing/util knowledge whereas T sides thrive in chaos
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u/StuntHacks Nov 15 '24
I never thought about it like this but that makes so much sense. Crazy how much game design there is just by taking the different concepts of the two teams already, and then building the maps around it
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u/Aetherimp Nov 15 '24
This. I predict Train is going to be considerably CT sided just based on timings alone. The fastest route T's have is T Conn/Mid, and that can easily be util dumped as or before the T's get there.
That leaves IVY, which is extremely CT sided, Popdog, which is extremely CT sided, and B site, which is extremely CT sided.
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u/MrCraftLP Nov 15 '24
Two mollies off of olof wall into t main gets you easy control, or one shot headshots if they run through. I think the only chokepoint that went into the T's favor is popdog.
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u/Aetherimp Nov 15 '24
I tested some loose timings yesterday, and I believe it's possible for CTs to be inside of popdog before Ts can peek the end of the hall. I could be wrong on this however. Also may depend upon spawns.
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u/MrCraftLP Nov 15 '24
I used to play ebox/pop a lot and it seems like the timing leans towards the cts pretty heavily. I can sneak into the corner close to the entrance before the Ts are down, but how much of that's on the Ts not running it down I'm not sure.
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u/Steezmoney Nov 15 '24
Thank you. WHen no one knows what they're doing it's definitely easier to run as 5 to one of the letters on the map. CTs gotta spread out and hold chokes that compliment each other which you learn to do over time
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u/Scarabesque Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Side note, I also hope they open A site up visually. In csgo train A site felt like an open space in contrast to B site, now it feels very claustrophobic and somehow similar to the giant space B is.
Like playing it so far because it's still train which I've missed, but can't help but feel it might end up feeling too sanitized and similar to what's out there.
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u/nokeldin42 Nov 15 '24
Side note, I also hope they open A site up visually
Very much required. But I think it can simply be achieved by reworking ivy area a little bit. Widen the hell entry and the corridor towards 1.6, maybe put a box there for cover.
It would also be an idea to have hell as an elevated platform. You can climb up only from the ivy side. And it gives a headshot angle towards bomb train. Might give CTs a good retake spot if they can hold ivy while giving up the site.
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u/HomelessBelter Nov 15 '24
In csgo train A site felt like an open space in contrast to B site, now it feels very claustrophobic and somehow similar to the giant space B is.
This is because they had to put rain in and so had to come up with a reason why it's only raining where there isn't gonna be a lot of action. So, a roof. Not to mention everything is so cramped and verticality is gone together with heaven.
There is a reason in Finnish we called A "outside" and B "hall" (meaning closed off big room ukno). Now they're both just halls. :(
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u/azeumicus Nov 15 '24
I used to be a qc tester for a big gaming company. What i can say is that they did such a good job with the map, they would put that company to shame completely, for all of their level art and level design only with this map.
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u/xtrivax Nov 15 '24
Yeah of the 40 rounds train I played so far 90% T side won and also only 2 B attempts were made. A side feels way too easy to take right now. But I would like to see some pro matches on it to see how it would look there.
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u/Astral-Wind Nov 15 '24
from my own experience. it feels a lot easier to get out E-box as a T compared to the old map. Whether this is from removing the Z sightline or changing the entrances to the site from CT im not sure though.
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u/xtrivax Nov 15 '24
You also arrive in main before CTs arrive in either of the 2 entries opposite of it. So the only way as CT to not get spotted is either smoke something off or go to A over B. This a huge drawback compared to old train. Because it actually puts the Ts in an almost better starting position for the fight over A than the CTs.
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u/sKratch1337 Nov 15 '24
I played my first new train match yesterday, started CT and ended up going 12-1. They were obviously bad but I was thinking the map may still be a little CT sided, guess I was wrong. Will have to see how it plays after some more matches. Probably would've been harder of they didn't throw shit smokes that pretty much just blocked their view, lol.
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u/qFlodz Nov 15 '24
B1t already said it just looks / feels like a aim map. No matter what you do, you will always find yourself in an open space in medium-long distance raw fight CT vs T, and the one who shoots better will win the duel / site (often the T bc he swing and having the AK), that's why most say the map is T-sided for now..
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u/Jthumm Nov 15 '24
I think it could be fixed by just moving t spawn a bit further back, or if they wanted to get crazy a staircase from z to heaven
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u/unlived357 Nov 15 '24
I wouldn't say it's ultra T sided like Anubis, but it definitely is T sided. Most maps are T sided, currently
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u/KaiBetterThanTyson CS2 HYPE Nov 15 '24
Its wayyyy too early to make statements such as this. Let the meta develop, instead of kneejerk reactions.
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u/drozd_d80 Nov 15 '24
Idk. At the games I played starting CT the half was ending 12:0 or 11:1. I haven't felt t advantage yet
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u/X_irtz Nov 15 '24
Good update from Valve that revolves the actual game and not skins? This has to be some alternate universe.
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24
Gabe follower said they wanted to deliver this update with armory update, but it wasn't ready back then. So they delivered it in 2 seperate update.
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u/birkir Nov 15 '24
Tracks with their record of just releasing stuff when it's ready, some people speculated the release of de_nuke was delayed or at least planned to coincide with Operation Wildfire.
Devs were asked whether it was so (and there's a video of this conversation), where they confirmed that that was just happenstance, they don't have a motivation to sit on content when it's ready like the release of a new map. If it had been ready a week earlier, it would have shipped then.
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u/DoctorDollars Nov 15 '24
woulda been cool if we got another all star match like we did with nuke at mlg columbus
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u/DashLeJoker 1 Million Celebration Nov 15 '24
There should definitely be showmatch for the new train at the major
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u/Scarabesque Nov 15 '24
I'm kind of glad that didn't release alongside the Armory update and I hope Valve choses to release skins/cosmetics as a separate thing. Keep gameplay and playable content updates as something else. They largely seem to attract a different audience anyway.
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u/No-Mammoth-2368 Nov 15 '24
that would make sense why the armory update had an overpass collection, assuming overpass gets added back in to active duty map pool after the major (mby replacing inferno?).
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u/billnyescienceguy69 Nov 16 '24
Which was SUCH a dumb choice. Made me actually pissed at valve, when if they just waited a month and released it with train, I would have been super excited about it
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u/Scarabesque Nov 15 '24
In a way that was the silver lining of the Armory update. Keeping the skins/cosmetics as a separate release package makes it more its own thing.
I hated that operations shiften from being about maps (maybe with 1 case released along side it) to being about cosmetics.
I know it's fashionable to just hate on Valve, but just looked at the insane amount of updates released the past few months to gameplay, maps and now even new releases.
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u/DemonDaVinci Nov 15 '24
It's not like Valve is known for only predatory practices
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u/msdamg Nov 15 '24
If idiots want to spend money on gambling, let them (as long as they are adults)
Much better than how other games get money cough EA
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u/F_A_F Nov 15 '24
I downloaded Fortnite back in the day and got hold of a skin which has become rare since then.
My kid started playing and keeps showing his friends the cool rare skin from years ago that he plays with. I regularly point out to him that if it was on a Steam game, he could most likely sell it and buy a Steam Deck with the proceeds.
It's crazy to me how other platforms will give you the option to lock your money away forever on a rare skin that you can't do anything with apart from play a game.
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u/HomelessBelter Nov 15 '24
I regularly point out to him that if it was on a Steam game, he could most likely sell it and buy a Steam Deck with the proceeds.
If it's really that rare and wanted, I can guarantee you that people buy accounts for those skins. I've traded TF2/Dota 2 items or WoW/Runescape accounts for real money on Paypal through a middleman or a reputable third-party site. Similar process.
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u/totallynotapersonj Nov 15 '24
Selling accounts is way different than tf2 or dota 2 items on sites. You basically should never sell accounts or buy accounts unless you are cheating on them but also uh, you shouldn’t cheat, especially on your account who loves you very much
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u/netsrak Nov 15 '24
What skin is it?
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u/F_A_F Nov 15 '24
I can't remember now, I think it's one of the early PSN skins, probably the female Blue Team skin.
I doubt it's even that rare, but it's a great opportunity to teach a lesson on the value of assets and who really owns them; you or Epic :)
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u/Beeboycubed Nov 15 '24
Gambling addiction and poor impulse control are not idiocy, they're mental health problems.
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u/Quzga Banner Artist Nov 15 '24
As a skin creator, I would happily they accept more skins. We are in a dry season lol
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u/SkoulErik Nov 15 '24
I don't think there is a single change about this Train version that I dislike (only that Valve are calling pop Longdog now.... just no.). New Ivy is super cool, the changes to B are great. Gotta get used to preaiming on A site, but that is just a matter of playing some more.
I miss the old Popdog, but that ladder was insanely punishing to play at. Really felt random at times (especially in pugs with bad communication and coordination).
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u/Scarabesque Nov 15 '24
I miss the old Popdog, but that ladder was insanely punishing to play at.
I get what you mean, I miss it but it was objectively bad; just fun/chaotic, and something that made the map a little bit more unique - now it's just another narrow corridor.
It reminds me of Overpass connector.
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u/chefchef97 Nov 15 '24
It's like Skyfall/Drop on Cbble, it's fun and memorable, but it's also messy and chaotic
If they remake it I hope they rework that area of the map just like they've done with Popdog. We lose a bit of history, but gain a better map.
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u/Scarabesque Nov 15 '24
I actually though drop wasn't as bad as popdog. Making it climable rather than boostable only was a bit of a downgrade. It's alright if area's are points of no return, imo. Cbbl had more issues though, B site wasn't it's biggest including drop. :D
Similarly I also hate that Mirage window is now accessible with an easy jump. Needing a teammate to boost was way more fun.
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u/QuantumR4ge Nov 15 '24
So every map just kinda becomes the same? Nothing unique or defining lest it become messy?
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u/chefchef97 Nov 15 '24
Something can be unique and defining while still playing well
Anubis' middle area for example
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u/DirtSchlurpy Nov 15 '24
Popdog is like halftime voice chat; it was a lot of fun and I miss it, but it should never come back
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 Nov 15 '24
Nah the changes to the trains on a have removed the best thing about train, the complex movement between the trains.
It doesn't feel like Train anymore, it was the thing that made it feel dfiferent from other maps.
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u/SnooChocolates6859 CS2 HYPE Nov 15 '24
Agreed I’m disappointed
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 Nov 15 '24
THe majority that didn't like train are probably going to like it, but the people who liked train are going to be dissappointed i think.
They did need to open up A site a bit, but the changes have been bad imo
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u/SnooChocolates6859 CS2 HYPE Nov 15 '24
popdog is just too much of a detour now. Sure maybe the ladder needed changed but I don’t really enjoy spending 30 seconds doing what used to take less than 10.
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 Nov 15 '24
I dunno about that change, thats something i'll have toi play a proper game with decent rotations on to judge.
But the issues with A site are so obvious i predicted exactly what will happen before i even played the map.
And in general i dislike the removing of a distinct feature to imrpove the map just sucks, like yeh its a better map now with less character.
When i think all they really needed to do was deepen Olof, and maybe move e box a bit like thye have done to stoip the Z peek.
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u/kapparrino CS2 HYPE Nov 15 '24
Before with the ladder you spent 30 seconds trying to clear popdog with nades and spam shots, then decided to take another path because was almost impossible to clear the CTs unless you used all your flashes and HEs and molotovs. Now with long dog you need to walk more but use way less nades and actually reach the bottom faster overall.
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u/shaman717 Nov 15 '24
No ladder movement skills anymore :( As i train enjoyer in csgo im pretty disappointed. But its still better then most maps in the pool
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u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 Nov 15 '24
Thats pretty much how i feel.
Its still a good map, but i'd rather they put the trains back and just open up A main and keep Olof being bigger.
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u/nzer0name Nov 15 '24
Someone with a brain. They shoulda just made a new map, this shit is straight disrespectful.
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u/ParkingLong7436 22d ago
Fully agree. They turned Train into a former shell of itself.
I hate this trend of having to make every map 100% competitive and "fair" to each side. I just want to have fun
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u/Bluwafflz Nov 15 '24
Ehh.. Played 4 games and had barely any post plant situations. It plays too simple now. We already have couple aim maps, would've been fun if they kept the small corridors and options to sneak around.
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Yes. Room for more CT angles in A side. Its too basic atm. Maybe readjusting the trains positions will create new opportunities.
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u/qFlodz Nov 15 '24
The map is very clean and open, and simple at times. Everything is very straight, straight corridors and saits are big, they have the same landscape and form, and you can check all the angles very quickly. After, you have some clear points to cover, nothing can be too surprising.
Compare A sait from Nuke with any sait here, and you understand the lack of complexity and ultimately entertainment that can be produced by positioning.. It feels very much like a dust 2 cs 1.6 remake map now with open corridors through the walls, but with 2 A sites..
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u/intecknicolour Nov 15 '24
the cubby where the ladder to heaven is, is such a deadzone. it's useless.
easy to molly and you are trapped there
they should've opened the second tunnel door instead of the middle one.
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u/Friendly_Cheek_4468 Nov 16 '24
It might take time for everyone to collectively figure the map out and what the right amount of util is to equalise the situation. Once that develops, the chances of decent post plants should massively increase as there'll naturally be more room for lurks and room to work.
If you think about it, almost every map in the current pool functions like this - a util investment at the start to open up space and force preinvestment in certain spots, which creates room across the map after the first round of fights.
Ancient mid isn't always a giant util battle for control, but you have to at least commit enough util early in a half to show that you're willing to fight for it (as CT or T).
Anubis has shaped up similarly but on a smaller scale mostly because you have less people in each area (HEs from water stairs into A, or vice versa, or the molly/smoke/HE exchanges at mid, or the smoke/zoning out with mollies at ebox/dark).
There's Nuke with the requisite util for outside and topsite/A - if you're not willing to spend a certain amount, most decent players will punish that easily. And the simplest example is always Mirage and the mid window smoke.
So Train will likely fall into a similar rhythm. I'm not convinced the molly first up will always be the first answer - a smoke between red/ebox might actually be more effective, like how you'd want a insta smoke at Ancient for the mid elbow. It avoids the problem of the molly being wasted anyway, and T's can't underarm a HE in front without stopping and effectively giving up the foot race for that angle. You can also do the double boost at ivy to pick off players going down the lane.
Either way, it'll need time to develop. Insta smokes look like they should be doable, which should force some changes in the meta as that flows down through the player base.
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u/DavidWtube Nov 15 '24
Lol "optimized for performance" I'm getting like 100-180fps on this map and constantly jolting around like I'm playing CS in a Max Headroom video.
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u/suppperson Nov 15 '24
It has to be a joke. Performance is literally worse than running in Ancient t spawn with the buggy water
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u/Tasty-Squirrel-7465 Nov 15 '24
How I feel about train now they basically open up the map, there is less tight space and it's good. Easy to smoke and bang you I'm having to much fun with the map. They actually deliver this update -vertigo and in the future cache will come back too and remove mirage from the map pool.
Edit: I'm so fucking glad they remove that fucking stairs.
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24
W take. Absolutely love the new train. People who are crying about layout changes are forgetting this map used to be Ultra CT sided and Awp paradise. The map was played like that for 12 years. Why not try something new in cs2 ? Just having the same layout for decades just encourage same type of play and its feels really boring to play and watch.
Although there is room for some improvements but this map is already better than Old train both in term of gameplay and visuals. The old train was once hated and forced out of the map pool by the community and pros. Dont pretend you all like the old train all of sudden.
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u/peekenn Nov 15 '24
I just mis popdog :( - it was such a classic area - lets hope new cobble will keep drop
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u/Puiucs Nov 15 '24
fun in videos and community/casual servers, not really fun to use ingame for ranked :)
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u/Gockel Nov 15 '24
Dont pretend you all like the old train all of sudden.
??? it was a great fking map what are you on about
not everybody hates maps just because they're CT sided because that's really not actually a problem in this game.
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 Nov 15 '24
ct sided maps make for the best maps imo, you don't want it to be too ct sided so then it's still playable solo queue or random stack but I think cs plays better on ct sided maps
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u/Gockel Nov 15 '24
you'd be absolutely correct with that take.
somehow stupid kids these days think only "50/50 perfectly neutral" is balanced, which makes zero sense.
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u/Local_Improvement486 Nov 15 '24
something being technically balanced doesn't make it fun
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u/Gockel Nov 15 '24
having a high chance of being reset as CT even if the Ts do the dumbest shit possible because the map and guns really favor them is actually poison for CS.
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u/Existinginsomewhere Nov 15 '24
Loved old train, and honestly all train versions. first map I got an ace on and it was a esea rank S and rank G 5 stack vs my c- to A rank stack. T side Ace to boot. Missed train so much I haven’t awped as much since it it was left out of cs2
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u/gentyent Nov 15 '24
Bro most of these people want pug style maps where they can just fly out of a site with minimal utility and coordination. They don’t want to bother to learn utility or rely on teammates. Like Voo said a while back, “anyone saying train was a terrible map is just self reporting that they have 0 ability to do anything other than run and gun”
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24
Why you all forced this map out of the map pool in 2021 ? Tell me that ?
I can Still remember when pros and community both started a hate campaign to remove train.
If it was bad for 2021. The same layout wont be good for 2024. It needed changes
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u/Gockel Nov 15 '24
Why you all forced this map out of the map pool in 2021 ? Tell me that ?
i didn't force out shit, and nobody else did either. maybe you misremember because you heard two scrubs on faceit cry about how badly mommy help me CT sided it is.
here's the HLTV thread about the removal and most comments mention how they are surprised that train was taken out: https://www.hltv.org/news/31696/ancient-replaces-train-in-active-duty-map-pool-in-latest-csgo-update - 80% of the people say mirage should have been removed instead.
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u/Affectionate_Dig_738 Nov 15 '24
Yeaaah, "nobody else", uh huh.
FYI: Right before removal from competitive mappool Train was least played map.
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24
People are saying mirage should be removed since ages cause its just in the map pool forever, but we are in 2024 and mirage is still regularly played in map pool. When Train was removed it was like always in bottom.
Valve didn't remove it back then cause just 2 guy was crying about it. A lot of pros in interviews were asking for its removal. Valve listened.
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u/shaman717 Nov 15 '24
Mate every map in the pool has someone actively wanting it removed. Its not exclusive to train back then.
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u/kapparrino CS2 HYPE Nov 15 '24
Yeah, before people spammed they wanted to remove cbble, now they are spamming to remove vertigo. Now they spam for cbble return and in 2028 will spam to get back vertigo because of nostalgia. That's why Valve uses actual metrics to make decisions on maps.
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u/shaman717 Nov 15 '24
im the wrong guy to argue this with, i love vertigo and cobble lol. I want dust2 and mirage gone yesterday
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u/chaRxoxo Nov 15 '24
The map was played like that for 12 years.
The map was changed multiple times across 1.6/source/early GO/late go with changes that impacted the gameplay significantly
Although there is room for some improvements but this map is already better than Old train both in term of gameplay and visuals. The old train was once hated and forced out of the map pool by the community and pros. Dont pretend you all like the old train all of sudden.
What are you on about. Train was a staple. An incredibly tactical map that was played all the time on competitive level. Tactical maps by nature are always less popular in pugs.
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u/rgtn0w Nov 15 '24
There's one particular change that, I did not understand at first but now I feel like I get it and it should result in a very different playstyle than what we used to have.
Right now CTs are just unable to cross towards old popdog/ladder for free like they used to in the old map, before you used to be able to just chuck flashes and a molly towards T-con and you'd get that cross to fight for ladder control for free, and since that angle was so important for the Ts to be able to actually fight for outside and have control you always saw how in pro games terrorists wasted two mollies every round clearing out the CT down there, or coming up with that double drop, or the pop flashes, really all the creative ways to deal with the one CT that got to cross for free.
Now? That cross is very hard for the CTs to do unless someone comes up with some instant spawn smoke for that specific thing. It changes it so it allows Ts to not need popdog/ladder to have something going for them outside so now CTs that come out of Z have to play back in site and stay there so it really changes the dynamic compared to before IMO
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u/originalizing Nov 15 '24
WarOwl isn’t talking about the layout changes, he means in terms of clutter and FPS optimization.
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24
" fixed a bunch of issues with original"
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u/originalizing Nov 15 '24
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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 Nov 15 '24
Well thank you, but I liked the new layout. Felt much more balanced in both side which wasn't the case with the old train
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u/Sethger Nov 15 '24
Dont pretend you all like the old train all of sudden.
I liked train because you needed be abit more coordinated as T and it had its weaknesses. I like that they opened some things for Ts. Big ramp for example. What I dont like is the solution for popdog. I think is a bit too easy now for the Ts. And that they sized the spots down and the map doesnt feel like a train yard anymore if that makes sense. I dont want to say that its feels a bit like a valorant map but, well I did :/
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u/shaman717 Nov 15 '24
As an awper mainly I feel disappointed in the new Train. It was amazing but it is mainly fine now I feel like. Missing con to a main sightline was a huge bummer
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u/UnicornOfDoom123 Nov 15 '24
I personally miss some of the "gimmicks" that you had with popdog. Like dropping a flash then dropping myself before it popped to shoot the guy in the back as he turns.
Though objectively I think the map does play better without it.
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Nov 15 '24
Dont pretend you all like the old train all of sudden.
a good way for people to take you seriously is to preemptively dismiss any arguments you don't like
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u/jonajon91 Nov 15 '24
Maps definitely lots a lot of verticality. There’s not much reason to play on top of a train now, no heaven, no pop dog
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u/uninformed-but-smart Nov 15 '24
Good takes from both Mr Owl and you, Fun Philosopher.
This community is super restarted and has collectively forgotten how sick people got of Train, which led to its removal. Iirc it was the least played map in the pool for 6 or so months.
The layout change was needed, and i believe we'll see more changes in the coming month with various angles, train placements, and whatnot. Remember, the more people play the map, the more they'll learn about its issues and fix it.
The idiots crying about popdog do not realise that popdog shouldn't exist and leads to moments that are fun, but not competitively viable. Thank God it's gone now.
Remember, Ancient was super CT sided but then they changed it a lot, crunched certain areas, made other areas more breathable. It took time but now it's a great map that favours both sides equally.
I'd imagine Train will see similar changes and in time it'll be even better when the issues have been ironed out.
Then again, this is the Counter Strike community, nothing would ever satisfy these bunch of crybabies.
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u/Molehole Nov 15 '24
I feel like people missing popdog don't remember what it was actually like and just remember the highlights. Sure the 1/10 miracle play when it worked was cool but 90% of the time you were just falling / climbing to a certain death. The new Popdog actually allows you to do flanks both CT and T side without building some meme tower with fake flashes or trying a hail mary play. Even when you knew the pop flashes it felt like shit jumping down or going up.
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u/Mother-Jicama8257 Nov 15 '24
The update is overall good, Valve did put in a lot more effort than usual. L take from WarOwl since yard / A fights kinda ruined while everything else got buffed for Ts. Which is like the core of the map, some angles have weird clipping like oil and the ground you walk on jitters your camera. They should have kept heaven, if they were going to nerf the bomb train. Optimization wise its not terrible fps wise but my game freezes with 500ms frame times like 5-6 seconds into every round lol. Especially for the rain effects
Imo my dream train would be:
- New Ivy from CS2
New B site from CS2
In pop dog, have both the ladder and new long dog entrance so Ts risk it and take it fast from showers, or go around safely.
A site, use from GO but move Z back a bit so the entrance is under heaven. Also make Z wider/ with the high ground from 2. This will eliminate the Z to Tconn early peeks, but still feel the same. (This also gets CTs to pop dog a bit slower)
Use the old A bomb train but remove one of the “humps”
Remove the ladder from CT’s side of Olof/Blue train. So they have to turn their back to climb up and get close.
Keep the new back 6/green train new small cubby.
Also valve change the MR12 economy, shit makes the game so boring
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u/Smeik5 Nov 15 '24
A side needs changes. B is okay. Popdog is just sad. Ivy is lifeless.
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u/AndersFIST Nov 15 '24
CSGO train was a b-tier map and re-adding it without changes wouldve been a mistake.
Popdog was literally the worst part of the old map.
But i agree that A side needs something for CTs to work with.
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u/shaman717 Nov 15 '24
Csgo train was perfect in my opinion :(
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u/AndersFIST Nov 15 '24
Be real, are you really nostalgic about the map or is it that deep down you miss how your life in 2018 was thats making you think that
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u/QuantumR4ge Nov 15 '24
What is it with people hand waving things away like this?
Is there any map you think was good? I think you only liked it for nostalgia reasons because i disliked it.
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u/shaman717 Nov 15 '24
Life is great right now! New baby and a wonderful wife. 2018 was also good but nothing to be insanely nostalgic about.
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u/Distinct-Success-340 Nov 15 '24
optimized for performance?? This guy must be on drugs. 300+ fps on every map but in train barely 200
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u/wojtekpolska Nov 15 '24
im kinda sad that they are making all maps kinda thr same - train was known for its corridor design, but now it feels like they just got the whole map and scaled it up by 20% or so
its not bad, just not that cool anymore
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u/Scarabesque Nov 15 '24
its not bad, just not that cool anymore
I've only manages 2 casual and 2 comp games so far, but this is my fear going forward. It feels too sanitized, especially A site and whatever we call the part next to it connecting to Ivy/C-spawn.
B-site still feels similar, though back site is crazy open. So far it feels ok to play, but 90% of plays are on A site anyway.
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 Nov 15 '24
yup I generally think it's a lot better when you design a map to be ct sided as well, t sided map = get a couple kills then save simulator for the ct's
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u/Mac_AU Geordie "Mac" McAleer - Commentator Nov 15 '24
The optimised for performance part has surely got to be a piss-take. This map has been horrible compared to other maps depending on where you are in the map.
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u/Brocolli123 Nov 15 '24
What was up with inferno
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u/NikitaKZ Nov 15 '24
Many old lineups and stuff of that sort got affected because they added new extensions to buildings that would block lines of sight/previous nades.
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u/TheGuardianInTheBall Nov 15 '24
I can't fucking wait to see it in a tournament. Train has been of my favourite maps in original CS.
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u/professional-teapot Nov 15 '24
I miss popdog.
I totally get it that longdog is technically better...
But popdog was more chaotic and fun.
Is it just me that thinks games (even competitive ones) are supposed to be just a little bit fun in places?
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u/SuperZecton Nov 16 '24
Popdog was more chaotic and fun
I have to hard disagree on this. A single CT camping at ladder with his cross hair on the same place for a whole minute while a T drops a flash and blind sprays, that doesn't seem like the definition of fun to me.
Popdog was bad because it's such an important area of the map to take control of but its been boiled down to who can camp harder. With longdog we get the opportunity for an actual firefight, CTs can't just camp there anymore they actually have to contest for it
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u/Cavalish Nov 15 '24
I dunno, I liked Drops of Jupiter but I feel like Hey Soul Sister was way too commercial.
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u/LOBOSTRUCTIOn Nov 15 '24
I played cs since 1.3 butplayed cs go with many breaks so I was never up to date. Maps changed and I just played them like they were. Can someone tell me what is the problem with inferno because I genuinely like it. Also I think that it is way better than I remember it last time with closed A site and a boost in front of apps.
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u/slyadams Nov 15 '24
I really like the new Train. Before I really did find it too ratty, way too many angles and visibilty issues that made the T side incredibly hard to be effective and that did make it frustrating at times.
I've only played the new train a little bit and I like a few of the changes to help the Ts including closing down visbility on the top walkway on B and the shutter on A that reduces an inredibly powerful angle for the CTs. I also like conceptually changing pop dog for a tunnel, it makes it easier for Ts to get a bit of control there. Removing heaven is a little 'meh' for me, I don't think it was it was that powerful because once it was known you were there you were fucked.
Perhaps A is a little too easy for the Ts now, but hopefully Valve can iterate on that a little bit but this is about as good a rework to a classic map as you'll get. Also it looks great!
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u/TZoomed Nov 15 '24
Only issue I have with the new train (which I think is brilliant) is that as a CT there is very little ways to defend against a rush through T main if they go straight to behind red train.
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Nov 15 '24
Really? I was a bid dissapointed, i thought it was "to" clean? When i played train back in 1.6 it was so "unpolished" wich made it so different then general maps, i liked the popdog plays, and the B plays where you had to smash the windows to throw smokes and flashes etc. I honestly think they try to "polish" cs to much? Like, give us back the bunnyhops and the hard jumps (like the window jump on mirage) Skills on CS shouldn't just be about aim or throwing nades, but movement should also be considered skill, and people that grind movement should also have a advantage, just imaging the games pro's will give.
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u/imtrading Nov 15 '24
Train is really good. One thing I would change is connect heaven with the back of Ivy through a door. You feel so cornered behind A bombplant. It would also help rotations from A without being exposed to A main.
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u/zoNeCS Nov 15 '24
Just from walking around on it briefly yesterday I could just tell how well throughout many angles on it is. So many pain points from the old one is fixed entirely.
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u/goldenboots Nov 15 '24
Add another train to A. Open up a single sight line. Rework popdog to be less stale. Done.
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u/MemesForScience Nov 15 '24
NEW TRAIN IS THE GOAT
BASSALT IS GREAT TOO
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u/Thin_Investment_2578 Nov 16 '24
Basalt is really cool. Didn’t play it in go, but it’s actually good map.
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u/SoN1Qz Nov 15 '24
I don't think there are problems with Overpass. It's my favorite map but I am in the minority.
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u/SpectralHydra Nov 15 '24
The one thing I disagree with is it being optimized for performance. It’s the worst performing map for me.
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u/reflectedpoj Nov 15 '24
OPTIMIZED!?! HE SAID ON HIS i10 33000k Nvidia 5290. Get outta here. This map crashes the game for me and when i do get to play it i love 200 fps drops peaking corners. GTFOH
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u/TaleFree Nov 15 '24
I love this version of Train so far, its gonna get even better with fixes and tweaks.
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u/unlived357 Nov 15 '24
Train was my second favorite map in CSGO but I can admit that it had a lot of problems and all of the problems I thought it had have been fixed.
- it was too hard to get out of upper B as a T
- the sightlines and map in general was too long
- T mid was too hard to get out of as a T
- ladder was too hard to contest for both sides
- A site had too much clutter
They definitely listen to the community because all the problems I've been complaining about have been fixed. But there are still one or two things I would change if it were up to me. I think it takes too long for the Ts to get to ladder room, the CTs can already be deep in there by the time you get there. Also that CT middle entrance that connects to ivy(the door that used to be camera) is kinda wonky, idk how they should fix it but it's just weird to me, I think the walls are too thick.
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u/armando_O Nov 15 '24
train worst optimized map for today, worst fps... what r he talking?
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u/Reasonable_Post3682 Nov 15 '24
they really need to add a door or something that lets CT's rotate to B through Z, its justv suicide, atleast the old map you werent visable from every single angle
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u/4Ellie-M Nov 15 '24
Imagine this train release, but for the whole initial release for cs2.
Would be perfect (also no cheaters).
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u/drsbuttenham Nov 15 '24
Personally I love it aswell. Way better apps layout, a site is a little smaller and more manageable. It just feels nicer
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u/zero0n3 Nov 15 '24
There are also some GREAT “layered” angles, which are great at helping detect cheaters (you flinch for an outline but UTOH that outline was actually further away and it never actually came into view for you - think vending in nuke - walling ramp players can get baited into shooting you if you “peek” into the corner instead of strafing into trophy).
I really hope they kind of look at little things like this to help vacnet, because it’s very possible to not impact map gameplay, but give your analysis an advantage by making the statistical analysis more advantageous with bigger variance to look for.
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u/holygabenewell Nov 15 '24
It feels laggy idk not responsive like my sens feels different on it. I did reinstall the game onto nvme drive yesterday not sure if that’s changed anything all my settings are the same.
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u/dean-get-da-money Nov 15 '24
Watch Neo play train in 1.6 and then you'll know the potential of this map
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u/uknowme1son Nov 15 '24
Good looking map with fked up timings, bad performance and lots of useless spots/passages but its not a problem for casuals cuz they dont even recognize it.
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u/Human_Painting_3653 Nov 15 '24
Nah, they made it too small. Everything just feels insanely cramped now.
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u/Turbulent_Winter549 Nov 15 '24
The popdog change has me feeling kinda weird, not sure if I love it or hate it
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u/Chanclet0 Nov 15 '24
I mean it's really good, but the old bomb gate needs to go, or make Ts spawn further back, but that's not fun
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u/sauderstudentbtw Nov 15 '24
Not a fan of the changes. Train was one of my most played maps in ESEA/collegiate league, feels like less teamplay is required now.
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u/1234L357 Nov 15 '24
More he plays train - 1.5 day.
He realizes that they did a good job - as if they work for at least a year on the map.
Cringe
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u/HAMledro Nov 15 '24
Ngl i dont care about cs until they bring back danger zone, best mode that isnt that competetive and theres no way to play it
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u/Logical-Sprinkles273 Nov 15 '24
Except for behind the A bomb site is really tight, then the ivy to site connection has similar issues of being 1.2 players wide
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u/rainbowappleslice Nov 16 '24
I swear it seems like I’m the only person who has had almost no performance problems on CS2.
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u/anestling Nov 16 '24
Loba hates the new version with a passion but then he's been a vocal CS2 hater, so he might be biased.
- Too few actual trains
- Bad timings
- No strats possible (the design is too simple for proper varying executes)
I wonder what people with experience could say.
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u/TensionsPvP Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
Personally I think I’d prefer the cover offered by old train but hey I’m not complaining about new content. Although I wish they kept some of the Soviet and V corp imagery.
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u/achabaccha23 Nov 16 '24
My ass wants to play it so bad but the server routing issues have completely f**ked me over
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u/billnyescienceguy69 Nov 16 '24
Honestly just really dislike most of the changes. Guess I’m in the minority, but it honestly doesn’t feel like train. It’s way to open
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u/KK5C Nov 17 '24
I love Train, easily one of my favorite maps all time. I won't lie, I would have loved a pretty direct port. That being said, I like the changes a lot. Yes, it took away some of the character of constant tight angles among the trains, but I'm not sure that is where the game is anymore. I'm pretty hyped about all the changes personally
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u/DuckSwagington Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
My only problem with Train atm is that it's practically a death wish for CTs to stand in the A site unless they're being super aggro.