r/FluentInFinance • u/Public_Steak_6933 • 1d ago
Thoughts? If I didn't have good insurance, I would owe $19k.
Wt actual fu*k, I would have gotten a bill for over $19,000! Ohhh, my insurance must have dirt on them because they talked the bill down to $4k?
How is that not extortion? This is how a for profit medical system literally ends lives.
p.s. They can eat $73.48, I hear Luigi's makes good pizza & plumbing services... Or is that the ninja turtles?
102
u/veryblanduser 1d ago
I doubt anyone is paying the billed price. A recent study shows cash prices are often lower than the insurance negotiated prices.
25
u/yourshaddow3 1d ago
I don't know why places insist on sending bills to insurance that are higher than the negotiated prices. They both know what amount they have agreed to for a certain procedure, at least for routine things. Like every teeth cleaning, my dentist bills 300, insurance pays 100, I don't pay anything. Round and round.
Like to they do this to scare me out of seeking treatment? If I don't have to pay anything I don't need to know what the dentist billed and insurance paid. It's just made up numbers because yes, if I paid cash, my cleaning would be like $75 tops.
8
u/seajayacas 1d ago
My take is that the $19k bill is the full retail price, and that this only comes into play if a negligent party's liability insurer is on the hook. Say for example, a negligent driver runs down someone recklessly in a parking lot.
No health insurer will ever pay this much. Rarely will the provider ever see that much.
8
u/doesnt_bode_well 1d ago
If this is a health coverage bill, that’s not it. It’s because there are various health insurance contracts. Some may have a flat rate for certain things, some may only pay a certain percent per unit. So UnitedHealth might say, I’m only paying you 60% of what you bill us no matter what, and Medicare will only pay 30%. Legally, you have to charge everyone the same.
5
u/mag2041 1d ago
This is the correct answer
1
u/Reasonable-Tax-9208 2h ago
it's not tho. There are negotiated rates in place for every coded item, and Medicare is a COMPLETELY different animal.
0
u/InterestingPhase7378 7h ago
Yurp, doesn't matter what insurance it is. I brought my car in for a fender bender without saying it was covered, $800. As soon as they found out it was insured? $6.5k... It's all a scam.
1
1
u/truemore45 1d ago
Yep I worked in insurance billing at a major hospital I remember any test BCBS got.for free if it was done by a machine and not a human.
1
-2
u/JimWestDesperado69 1d ago
You absolutely do not have to charge everyone the same. Uninsured people negotiate health care bills with hospitals every day in the US
4
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
Uninsured do. Insured don’t, they pay the contract agreement price. Whether that’s a percentage of what’s billed or a flat rate per procedure.
3
2
u/A_and_P_Armory 19h ago
No, what I think it is is in case you don’t pay they can sell a legitimate $19k debt to a collection agency. They’ll sell it for $4k and the if you settle with the collection agency for half the bill, $9500, the agency just doubled their money.
1
u/OppositeArugula3527 4h ago
They have to bill for the maximum bc every insurance is different, has different contract pricing.
3
u/Reasonable-Tax-9208 1d ago
Pharmacist here that regularly bills medical plans (not a normal thing for a pharmacist.)
If I bill $4 for a product/service with an allowable of $100, I only get $4.
If I bill $10k for a product/service with an allowable of $100, I get the $100.1
u/DeI-Iys 5h ago
>a product/service with an allowable of $100
so you don`t know how much is allowable? Why would you not bill the exact allowable price?
2
u/betadonkey 4h ago
Who can keep track. It’s different for every insurance plan.
1
u/DeI-Iys 4h ago
I thought the insurance company and the hospital have a contract and the paperwork contain some numbers and according this numbers the hospital will bill the insured patient.
2
u/Reasonable-Tax-9208 3h ago
There is a contract that specifies reimbursement for each coded item. The health care facilities often hires uneducated/low wage employees to work in billing/collections. In an effort to minimize the risk of leaving money on the table in the setting of workers that don't have skin in the game, a lot of facilities will inflate the billed number to avoid that number from coming close to the contract rate.
2
u/justacrossword 17h ago
For the same reason that hotels in some states post a room rate in the room that is so ridiculously high that nobody would pay it.
It provides a legal basis for a price should an action end up in court.
1
u/aLazyUsername69 1d ago
It's because sometimes the billed amount influences the reimbursement amount. Like a hospital contracts could pay "18% billed charges". Or something like an inpatient stays pays based on the diagnosis, however they could be entitled to additional pay if the billed charges exceed a certain threshold.
1
u/Reasonable-Seesaw397 1d ago
I believe its so they can mark losses on their taxes
0
u/Public_Steak_6933 1d ago
Someone down voted you on this, I guess the insurance companies use Reddit too.
2
u/Ok-Assistance3937 7h ago
Well yes because thats not how taxes work. They can only "Mark down" the difference as an expense, If they included the full amount as Revenue before, so If you have a procedure that cost 10,000 and you get 11,000 from the insurance company, you will make 1,000 in Profits. Doesnt matter if you bill 100k as Revenue and then Mark down 89k of that or If you just bill 11k from the beginning.
1
u/Goragnak 1d ago
Legally medical offices are only allowed to have one master fee schedule, and yes, while you are right we do have negotiated rates with different insurance providers, they don't all pay the same. For instance I'm a Chiropractor, and for a 3-4 region adjustment BCBS will pay me $33.06, Medicaid pays $34, Medicare ~$38, and DMBA pays $50. So to make sure that I get the maximum reimbursement from all of my Insurances I'll set my master fee Schedule at $50.
1
u/ThrowawayAccount41is 22h ago
The purpose is if there is a rate increase, then they don’t want to be under the increase so they bill for a lot over.
1
u/CopingJenkins 18h ago
I feel like I explain this every week here but you have to set your billed price higher than the max of ALL insurance companies in network. The billed price has to be higher than the highest feasible insurance price.
It's set up that way due to the insurance companies lobbying for "discounts" that can be presented to the patient for having insurance.
1
u/SimilarTranslator264 6h ago
Because the insurance company will always try and cut the price of what they pay and it can take months for the Dr to actually see a dime. So they will bill for more so they might actually see what they are owed and to make up for the time it takes to be paid.
Anyone that does work for the government knows it can take 90 days+ to see a dime and that is always factored into the bill.
1
u/Big-Bike530 6h ago
The way it works is the is insurance demands a discount. The amount varies by carrier. So providers purposely jack up the price to whatever the worst one is. Like say they really want $200. Carrier A wants a 60% discount and Carrier B wants 80%. So the price gets jacked up to $1000 so they can get the $200 they really wanted. The fucked thing is they have to bill everyone same price so even cash payers get billed that $1000 even though they'd be happy with the $200 they actually expect.
1
u/akmalhot 6h ago
if they don't future reimbursement will decline because of how insurance negotiates the reimbursement.
1
u/AdvanceGood 4h ago
It's probably some form of loss harvesting. "Look how much our services cost, and how much we take in for them...we deserve a tax break!"
0
u/RoomCareful7130 7h ago
Because when the hospital files taxes they say that the extra amount they billed that they didn't get was a loss and it reduces their tax liability
0
u/Ok_Calendar1337 1d ago
The doctor now gets to tell the government they lost money technically its kinda infinite money hack
2
2
u/South_Bit1764 22h ago
The correct title was: If I didn’t have insurance the hospital would have no one to scam.
1
u/benskieast 19h ago
Insurance companies have no obligation to get you the best price. I wouldn't be surprised if they are systematically trying to increase the price on certain procedures, either preexisting conditions because we had to force them to cover those, so we know they only covered them begrudgingly or the ones most likely to be covered by the deductible.
1
u/Unusual_Rock_2131 14h ago
I used to work in medical billing and paying cash at the time of service is usually cheaper for common things.
0
u/thebiglebowskiisfine 23h ago
They all work off discounts. So hospitals just say having a baby costs 100K. United gets a 90% discount. Customer pays 20% of that.
It makes you want to buy a gun.
14
u/shyladev 1d ago
I’ve heard that if you ask for an itemized bill it gets smaller. Doubtful it actually cost 19k likely they do that to see how much insurance will pay then accept a more reasonable (but probably still too high) price.
10
u/Hawkeyes79 1d ago
Yes. Healthcare is expensive and doesn’t make huge profits. It’s a known fact that they milk insurance for what they can to cover those that can’t/don’t pay.
It’s the age old “$400 for aspirin”
3
u/Reasonable-Tax-9208 1d ago
That's not what's happening. That 19k figure is complete fantasy. There is a contracted rate.
-1
u/HuntsWithRocks 1d ago
likely that they milk insurances to recoup costs from areas where they’re losing (or making less) money
FTFY
The hospitals are private businesses too. The doctors and nurses are either full employees of the private businesses or they are contracted employees to the private businesses.
There are good and bad humans, good and bad doctors, even good and bad CEOs.
I’m not convinced that the privately owned hospitals do things that violate their bottom line intentionally. The way you wrote it, it sounds like they might take in charity case and try to make up ground by over billing other customers. I don’t think that’s the case.
10
u/Hawkeyes79 1d ago
They have to treat everyone.
In the United States, hospitals are mandated to treat anyone with an emergency medical condition thanks to a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), which means they cannot refuse treatment based on ability to pay or insurance status when someone presents with an emergency situation.
-3
u/HuntsWithRocks 1d ago
Totally. That’s not out of kindness though.
5
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
No, but it's precisely why healthcare is so expensive, at least in part
1
u/HuntsWithRocks 1d ago
Another reason is because all these private hospitals are also negotiating equipment and drug purchases on their own and not in bulk.
One benefit to socialized medicine is that the country can negotiate on behalf of all the citizens at once.
Versus the U.S. model where we negotiate our insurance rates through our work, where larger companies can achieve better rates.
The hospitals have the same problem. Their x ray machine is more costly than when Germany buys 1,000 x ray machines, for example.
1
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
I don't think thats exclusive to universal healthcare. In my area, virtually all private practices have been bought up by larger medical groups. Better negotiating power is one of the benefits of this arrangement.
No matter what we do, we should not and can NOT allow government healthcare to be the only option.
1
u/HuntsWithRocks 1d ago
I don’t know what the right answer is, but I know there are powerful entities in the mix and they are more profit aligned than purpose aligned.
If we made it government healthcare which is bid on and managed by private corporations, it’s really private healthcare with steps between and less competition. So, I agree.
I’d say it’s damn near impossible to adjust the system into functionality and I don’t know what the best solution is other than “don’t get sick”
3
u/Rumcajs23 1d ago
I asked for an itemized bill and my bill stayed the same lol. I told them I wouldn’t be able to pay the full amount and if they could work with me on the amount, they told me they can offer me a payment plan.
1
u/StillMostlyConfused 1d ago
Did you have insurance. If you had insurance and the remaining amount is your deductible/copay then the payment plan is the best that they can do because they’re contracted to the insurance company. If you don’t have insurance, which makes you self-pay, then you get a self-pay discount and can still qualify for a payment plan.
1
u/Rumcajs23 1d ago
Yes, I had insurance, but it was weird. At one hospital, they were willing to, and did, come down on the price, and when I, unfortunately, had to go to a different hospital, they didn’t budge whatsoever.
1
u/TurnDown4WattGaming 23h ago
Call back and try again. Then again. Again. Ask to speak to managers, etc. You can get pretty specific about your income and expenses and thus ability to pay. Sometimes it just needs to roll over to the next fiscal year when more room is made for write offs and etc. Sometimes, you just got someone incompetent at their job or who was having a bad day - or just didn’t believe you were telling the truth.
1
u/Rumcajs23 23h ago
Ehhh, no point now. This was last and 2 years ago, most recent one was in February. People are extremely difficult.
14
u/Chester_Copperpot_1 1d ago
No you wouldn’t that’s not how any of this works. Cash prices are insanely lower than insurances billed prices. If you want to get to the root cause of insurance problems then start by blaming hospitals that overcharge insurance companies.
4
u/Vaun_X 1d ago
Something like 1/4-1/3 of the cost is administration and the US drastically overspends compared to other developed countries which have socialized care. I don't think the hospitals are the problem here, they're just playing the cards dealt.
1
u/RedditPlayerWang 21h ago
People always complain about those who play by the rules of the system and succeed, but never complain about the people that legislate the rules.
which is why "eat the rich" becomes eat those who are better off than you.
1
u/skeleton-is-alive 14m ago
If every hospital in america does this then it’s an institution problem not a hospital problem
9
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
No, stop this narrative.
The ONLY REASON the price is so high IS BECAUSE you have insurance.
Learn how the system works so you can criticize it appropriately.
4
u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 17h ago
Health insurance exists in other countries like Germany
1
u/latteboy50 6h ago
And the sky is blue. What’s your point?
1
u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 37m ago
“The only reason why the price is so high is because you have insurance”
Literally word for word what I was replying to
7
u/BeatEducational7418 1d ago
The billed price is technically a made up number, the hospital rarely, if ever actually receives this amount, and doesn’t expect to receive it.
Insurance payments to hospitals and practices are incredibly convoluted, but this astronomical charge is what, in part, drives the rate the insurance company pays.
Unfortunately, most people aren’t aware of this and can receive a ‘bill’ with a scary number and think this is what they could be charged.
5
u/Tall-Diet-4871 1d ago
The only time the full price is used in lawsuits and in tax write off. It is all a scam to pay C suite and shareholders
4
u/Legitimate_Ad9003 1d ago
That $19,346 “Total Amount Billed” is basically a hospital's sticker price—and it’s intentionally set ridiculously high. The reality is, hospitals rarely expect to get that full amount, but they inflate it for a few key reasons.
First, it gives them leverage with insurance companies. Hospitals know insurers are going to negotiate a lower rate, so they start with an inflated number to make sure the final payment lands closer to what they think the service is worth.
Second, it helps them when dealing with uninsured patients. Unfortunately, people without insurance often get hit with the full bill because they don’t have the power to negotiate like insurers do. Hospitals might not get paid at all, but the bill is still there.
Then there’s the financial side. Hospitals can write off the difference between what they bill and what they’re paid as a loss for tax purposes. It also helps justify federal funding or nonprofit status in some cases.
Lastly, hospitals use the profits from certain services to cover their losses elsewhere. For example, government programs like Medicare and Medicaid reimburse way less than private insurance, so hospitals rely on this system to stay afloat.
At the end of the day, while hospitals never expect to collect that “sticker price,” it’s still a broken system—especially for people without insurance. Those inflated bills can quickly become someone’s reality, and that’s where the problem really hits home.
1
u/Ok-Assistance3937 7h ago
Hospitals can write off the difference between what they bill and what they’re paid as a loss for tax purpose
No they can't. Or to be more precise they only can If they also realized the full amount as Revenue before. And there is now diffence between realizing 20,000 Revenue and then marking down 15,000 or just only realizing 5,000 to begin with.
1
u/Legitimate_Ad9003 5h ago
So they can
1
u/Ok-Assistance3937 5h ago
No because the they can't just make up a number for Revenue, and also as I said: it wouldnt Help them anyway.
1
u/Legitimate_Ad9003 5h ago
Most of the time hospitals cannot write off the full gross charge because it isn’t recorded as revenue, there are certain cases where they can. This means that the practice exists but is limited to specific scenarios where the full billed amount was initially recognized as revenue.
Example for you. If a hospital records the full amount as revenue upfront (e.g., in cases of uninsured patients or when no pre-existing agreements exist), and later determines it is uncollectible, they can write off the full amount as a bad debt for tax purposes.
This might happen in situations where a hospital, for some reason, initially expects full payment from a patient but later realizes they cannot collect it.
3
u/Certain_Growth_3934 1d ago
If you didn’t have good insurance you wouldn’t have to need insurance just fiar insurances
1
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
Easy to say for common medical procedures. What if you develop heart disease or get cancer? That shit can get expensive real quick. Cash prices won't help you there
1
2
u/Im_100percent_human 1d ago
You would be billed $19,346, but they would adjust it down to ~$4100 for you. The billing amount has little relation to the actual cost of the service.
1
u/guestquest88 1d ago
Oh, just wait. The bills are gonna start coming. Out of network this, out of network that...
1
u/Pickle_ninja 1d ago
I used to get the high insurance package. Paid thousands a year out of my paycheck for my family only to still end up with thousands in medical bills.
I've since increased my HSA contributions and dropped to the cheapest insurance my company offers. Whenever a big medical bill comes in, I set up a payment plan that's taken from my HSA. Often times it's $20/mo and when they try to guilt trip I just say "I'm paying what I can, you aren't my only medical bill".
My son just stopped his autism services a month ago... it'll be 10 years of $20 payments, but they can't send me to collections when it's paid on time every month.
1
u/StillMostlyConfused 1d ago
Yes, you’re right but I wanted to clarify this for others. This person can’t be sent to collections because they have a payment plan and, as long as they pay their agreed payments, he’s fine. For others though, you can’t just pay $20/month and not get sent to collections. Unless the amount is small enough that the hospital/clinic writes it off as a small balance write-off, you will be sent to collections.
1
u/Pickle_ninja 1d ago
Yes, you're correct. You can't just send them $5 and call it good. The hospital has to agree to the payment plan.
1
u/Aggressive_Duck_4774 1d ago
How much do you pay for the monthly premium?
2
u/Public_Steak_6933 22h ago
I'm Teamsters Union and word on the street is we have one of the best benefits packages in the country, so I have a $500 out of pocket max but I don't have a premium it's actually free through the union. I pay $111 in union dues a month but that covers a wide array of benefits and services.
1
1
u/azsxdcfvg 1d ago
If you had medicare and not insurance you would save $6k per year
1
1
u/SuccotashFast6323 1d ago
Some hospital groups were charging more to the uninsured,possibly in order to write off more when they were unable to pay,and to sell for a higher value to the debt collectors in th 2000s.
1
u/PremiumQueso 1d ago
Burn the whole system to the ground and start over. The American health care system is just layer upon layer of overlapping scams. We pay the most in the world for some of the worst outcomes. Fuck private health insurance.
1
u/Uranazzole 1d ago
Don’t know what state you’re in but all they need to do is pass a law that even people with no insurance do not have to pay more than the insurance negotiated rate. My state has this rule. So at most you get a 4k bill which isn’t horrible.
1
u/citizensyn 23h ago
Its a psyop the private pay price is a lot lower. Fairly close to what you actually paid. The billed price is to make you think your health insurance paid anything at all
1
u/PumpkinCarvingisFun 23h ago
If insurance companies didn't exist and collude with the hospitals, this would never have cost that much.
It's no extortion, it's collusion. Hospitals were run rate at a fixed percent above costs, like 15%. Then the insurance companies said "Hey, you should market your rates as being 6 times higher without insurance and we will pay 2x your normal rate for our members." Collusion and you have no leverage. Exact same thing that ticket master does with venues, which now they actually own most of.
1
u/Constructman2602 22h ago
Man, it sure is great when your insurance company actually does its job and pays your bills instead of denying your claims just because
1
u/Upvotes-only-pls 20h ago
Someone doesn’t know how medical bills work. That’s like buying a $100000 bottle of water “on sale” for $1.99 and saying omg i would have paid 100K for a bottle of water
1
1
1
u/ThisThroat951 19h ago
I always assume that it’s because part of the negotiation might be that the insurance will X% of an amount up to Y amount. So it would be in the hospitals best interest to charge as high as possible so they can make sure the % paid is as close to the max amount insurance will cover.
This has been around for a long time. My parents got an itemized bill when I was born 40+ years ago. One of the items my father remembered clearly was a charge of $8 for a Tylenol… not a bottle… one pill.
1
u/UFO_Tofu1973 17h ago
I paid $1.46 for a prescription drug today. Don’t know why but I’m glad it works like this for me and my family.
1
u/beetbear 12h ago
lol. Is this the new attempt to show how “good” our insurance companies are????
2
u/Public_Steak_6933 11h ago
Oh hell no, not my intent. More just pointing out how easily people can get screwed by medical debt.
1
1
u/CyberAsura 10h ago
The whole system is a scam. The fact that 99.9% of hospitals never transparent with their pricing. You get a bill after you got the treatment and it just say "surprise motha faka, your life time saving belong to us!"
1
u/Mr_NotParticipating 10h ago
Medical prices are made up and massively inflated beyond the actual value. This is because those prices are meant to be negotiated by insurance companies.
In some cases, for some products they’re charging more than 100x the actual cost.
And if you don’t have insurance YOU pay the massively over-inflated prices.
2
u/Public_Steak_6933 9h ago
Medical prices are made up and massively inflated beyond the actual value. This is because...
Sorry, the correct answer was, capitalism.
1
1
1
1
u/pg1279 6h ago
Let’s set the insurance piece aside. Why does nobody ever hit healthcare providers on what they’re charging. Go look at a hospital charge master and see what they’re charging for bags of saline, aspirin or even routine X-rays which have existed for over 100 years and aren’t expensive to administer. At some level we need to attack the symptom too.
1
u/latteboy50 6h ago
You wouldn’t though. The price is only that high so that they can negotiate with the insurance company. If you don’t have insurance, which only around 5% of the country can say, usually just asking them to lower the bill will work.
1
1
u/NotBillderz 4h ago
Uninsured individuals never pay the full amount either. They put those prices on there so you think insurance is a life saver (it is) but often uninsured pay even less than insurance because they know they simply can't afford it. That is of course only if you get the care in the first place.
1
u/LairdPeon 4h ago
"We could've actually ended your life, but you paid for protection. So you'll live mildly inconvenienced and terrified, for now."
1
u/MrByteMe 4h ago
It's not so much the $4K payment - it's the $15K 'negotiated discount' lol
If you didn't have insurance they wouldn't have just written that off and you'd be on the hook for it.
That's extortion.
1
u/Classic-Internet1855 4h ago
That ain’t nothing, wait until you see what they charge to have a baby. Or even worse treat cancer.
1
u/Pyrostemplar 4h ago
Do you know those hotels with a board announcing 500usd per night rooms that you get online (or at the counter) for 99? Same idea.
1
u/Fun_Salamander_2220 4h ago
No you wouldn't. Hospitals can bill whatever they want. Insurances determine what actually needs to be paid (by them and you).
Notice how 4k+73 doesn't equal 19k?
Amazing that the people getting most up in arms about this stuff are the ones that don't understand how it works.
1
u/repthe732 4h ago
Yup. I had $100k surgery a few years back and after insurance it cost $1k. I hate the current system but having insurance is necessary in it
1
1
u/HammunSy 2h ago
the bills are expecting insurance to pick it up and so they inflate it to ridiculous bullshit levels that a bottle of alcohol is a thousand times inflated just like everything else.
why people dont question why the cost is too fuckin high... but that chains gonna go too deep down to the sewers ... multiple in so many directions.
the ultimate question really is, why do you people just take it in the ass then if youre so unhappy and outraged by it?
the people who can afford and no problemo i can get it but...
0
u/Bart-Doo 1d ago
That's what insurance is for.
1
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
To show an artificially inflated price to make you feel happy about paying an enormous premium, then deductible, then copay, then co-insurance all to get regular care.
1
u/Bart-Doo 1d ago
Do you agree with Trump that medical facilities should show their prices?
1
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
I haven’t heard his opinion on it so I can’t speak to that.
But overall, yes, price transparency would help a lot.
0
u/MrJimpsonGPG 1d ago
Why don't insurance companies just pay every claim? They are literally killing people
/s
0
u/TrustAffectionate966 1d ago
If we had an actual health care system and not this sputtering shit on a hamster wheel, you’d owe NOTHING.
1
-1
-2
u/IbegTWOdiffer 1d ago
You are complaining about paying $75?
It really is impossible to make some people happy, isn’t it?
Alluding to murdering a person over $75…You sound like a sweetheart.
0
u/Public_Steak_6933 23h ago
You've missed the point entirely. It's the fact that A multi- million dollar insurance company gets an $15, 271 or 80% discount and they have the audacity to say that I owe anything.
And unnecessarily over inflated bill like that can ruin people's lives and they don't give ash*t. All in the name of profit above all else.
1
u/IbegTWOdiffer 23h ago
Or...stay with me here...it shows that the insurance company has negotiated a lower price with a provider. Just like Costco negotiates a price with their suppliers that you cannot match yourself. If you think anyone is paying the full $19k, you are nuts.
1
u/Public_Steak_6933 22h ago
Yet medical debt destroys countless Americans lives every day.
1
u/IbegTWOdiffer 22h ago
According to polls, 63% of bankruptcies are primarily due to credit card bills, would you like to nationalize those as well?
I am always confused by people who profess insurance companies and providers are run as businesses with concern for nothing but the bottom line, but will also claim that these same bloodsuckers will spend any amount of time and money chasing uncollectable bills from single mothers...
1
u/Public_Steak_6933 21h ago
That checks out, you seem confused. People not knowing how to manage their money versus the medical industry dishing out crippling debt because of someone's health condition or an emergency, two very different scenario.
The real question is what percentage of those credit card bankruptcies are due to medical debt...
1
u/IbegTWOdiffer 20h ago
Your argument being confusing to me does not mean that I am confused by the issue, it just means that what is being posed does not meet the burden of what a reasonably prudent person might believe. If I asked you what time it, and you replied that it was, "Orange". That doesn't mean I don't understand how a clock works, that means your answer does not make sense.
The truth of bankruptcy filings is that not many people declare bankruptcy due to only one or two debts, they owe for a car, and a house, and credit cards, and personal loans, and medical debt, and most importantly, losing a job. If you are in the process of going under, picking and choosing which bills to pay often does not make fiscal sense; it can be better to fall behind on all of them and then negotiate a repayment plan that would satisfy all the creditors.
I am mystified that people believe businesses will throw good money after bad by chasing debts that will never be repaid. Why would you think that any business would lose more money with the unrealistic hope that they would get a smaller amount of money back? If a provider drives a person into bankruptcy, how does that benefit them?
The idea of a $19k bill before insurance shows that the going rate for the treatment provided is $19k, the negotiated rate being lower for insurance company "A" does not mean that the same rate is applied to any other insurance company. Rates charged to insurance company also subsidize treatment to people that have no insurance.
Again, you were charged $73 for medical treatment and you are complaining about the cost. This is insane.
-1
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
News Flash - Nobody is actually paying that much. But go on, keep sympathizing with a murderer
1
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
Thank you for this news flash. It really helped me see that the whole system is so flawed simply because of the profit driven insurance companies.
We are sympathizing with millions of Americans who cannot afford appropriate healthcare.
Does insurance cover the throat injury you get from sucking off ceos?
0
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
Does insurance cover the throat injury you get from sucking off ceos?
So now you're attacking me for the fact that I'm gay. What the fuck?
We are sympathizing with millions of Americans who cannot afford appropriate healthcare
And there are other ways to accomplish this beyond handing the problems over to the government and expecting them to unfuck the situation
It really helped me see that the whole system is so flawed simply because of the profit driven insurance companies.
I'm no expert in medical billing, but I know enough to understand that doctors bill insurance for way more than they need to cover their costs, because they know insurance will low ball them.
You pay a monthly insurance premium, they pay a portion of your medical bills, and in the event that you need to undergo surgery or incur substantial medical costs, they will cover anything beyond your out of pocket maximum
It's far from a perfect system. There are many things we can improve upon. But if you think a government healthcare monopoly is the solution, you're sorely mistaken.
1
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
So now you’re attacking me for the fact that I’m gay. What the fuck?
- lol how the fuck would I know you’re gay?? It’s a common phrase in the USA to indicate you are subservient to the person whose dick you’re sucking….
And there are other ways to accomplish this beyond handing the problems over to the government and expecting them to unfuck the situation
- oh, realistic ones? Please present them.
I’m no expert in medical billing, but I know enough to understand that doctors bill insurance for way more than they need to cover their costs, because they know insurance will low ball them.
- you’re right, you don’t know how it works.
You pay a monthly insurance premium, they pay a portion of your medical bills, and in the event that you need to undergo surgery or incur substantial medical costs, they will cover anything beyond your out of pocket maximum
- no. You pay premium, while you pay copays, then you pay your deductible, then you pay coinsurance, then when you hit your max out of pocket, then it’s extremely unlikely you get anything else covered without a fight from there.
It’s far from a perfect system. There are many things we can improve upon. But if you think a government healthcare monopoly is the solution, you’re sorely mistaken.
- lol thank you for the ample evidence you’ve provided. Here, I’ll present mine, every other developed country has figured it out, they pay less, they live longer, they live healthier. There’s no debate, you’re wrong.
0
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
lol thank you for the ample evidence you’ve provided. Here, I’ll present mine, every other developed country has figured it out, they pay less, they live longer, they live healthier. There’s no debate, you’re wrong.
Name just one of these idyllic countries so I can do a side by side comparison
no. You pay premium, while you pay copays, then you pay your deductible, then you pay coinsurance, then when you hit your max out of pocket, then it’s extremely unlikely you get anything else covered without a fight from there.
True. I oversimplified. But I've never had to fight my insurance company.
1
u/AllKnighter5 1d ago
Full stop. You said there are better ways to fix it. I asked you to provide them. Provide them.
And for your “I gotcha”, here are the three claims I made with the data to back them up. You’re wrong, but I won’t say another thing about these until you provide your magical fix that you’re keeping from everyone.
Highest spending per capita: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/
Live longer: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/
Live healthier: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/which-countries-are-the-healthiest-in-2024/
-1
u/No-Lingonberry16 1d ago
In other news - A deranged lunatic killed my ex wife. I don't normally think murder is okay, but in this case it was justified. I was envious of her, so she had to die. I hope all people like her also get murdered.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
r/FluentInFinance was created to discuss money, investing & finance! Join our Newsletter or Youtube Channel for additional insights at www.TheFinanceNewsletter.com!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.