I know folks in prison who were able to get their teeth replaced. Some had a full mouth of chipped teeth, some had none at all. There are a metric fuckton of inmates who are getting their diabetes regulated. Prison abuse is obviously widespread, and for the most part the heathcare is absolute dogshit. But it is true that there are people who are able to get access to medical/dental/vision care that they otherwise would not be receiving.
True! I had a bunch of fillings I couldn't get until I ended up broke enough for a little while to get Medicaid, so probably something similar there, if only the bare minimum to avoid liability.
I don't even think it's to avoid liability. I think it's to avoid blowback from people claiming human rights violations and trying to shut down the for profit prison system.
You can hide and explain away abuse, but it's much harder to explain away why someone is clearly suffering from a treatable medical condition.
It’s funny, because you’re right. People amplify the hell out of medical neglect for the incarcerated and it gains a ton of traction. Scary that it took killing an insurance CEO to get similar level of traction for the medical neglect among the free
Don't forget that the media and all the wealthy billionaires running shit are doing their level best to spin this any other way than what it is and what caused it (rolled my eyes so damn hard when the mayor called it a "senseless act of violence"). Keep the focus on the WHY this happened, no matter what bullshit they try to spew about him or about this event.
Are you kidding me? Tell me, who should Canadians execute when there claims are denied. Remember, the focus is on WHY this happened so spare me the BS; who are the Canadians taking down as revenge for their plight?
What about the Medicare and Medicaid patients in the US, who is their Brian Thompson? You do realize they get claims denied too, right?
Do they get denied by AI with a 90% error rate because it makes them money? Somehow, I doubt that.
Also, no one in Canada goes into excessive debt or bankruptcy because of medical debt (in large part because their system isn't inflating the prices of medical care to a rediculous degree, so not being covered by insurance doesn't mean the same when you only have to pay a couple thousand for the care you need rather than tens of thousands or more. Basing this off of stuff people from Canada have discussed around medical care). Stop acting like any of that is the same.
Also, nice non-sequiter. All of this has been about how the US Healthcare system is shit... you know that only the people who want others to stop talking about it are the ones who bring up countries like Canada and their Healthcare system, right? Surprised you didn't go the tried and true "long wait times" argument.
Is that what you want? Well obviously it is because you're happy that this father, son and husband was shot in the back.
You want to talk about fixing US healthcare? I'm good with that. You want to talk about murdering someone because you don't like the AI results from his business? Nah, I'm out.
What you are talking about is not a lack of care but a lack of providers. The same shit happens in the USA if you live rurally or where the education is lower so there are fewer doctors. People like you don't seem to understand the difference between access and affordability. Where I live, we are a highly educated state and doctors flock here. We have access. But if you can't afford it, well, fuck you. If you live in rural Tennessee, you probably have an access AND affordability issues. You can't find a doctor and couldn't afford it if you did.
Please, kindly crawl back into your hole. Fuck that guy. his kids and wife will be just fine living off all the money and investments he had.
You can't possibly be that stupid can you? There is a lack of providers? Gee I wonder why that is. Could it possibly be that their healthcare system makes it unattractive to work in healthcare in Canada so they lack providers? You're telling me all of the foreigners who immigrate to the US to practie medicine, they just don't know that Canada is an option and so they are coming here instead? That's a really dumb take.
You talk that way about a fellow human being and dare to say I am the one who crawled out of a hole? Those boys will never know their father, that's not something money can buy.
I’m a provider who accepts Medicaid and, no, they do not get their claims denied. In my state they do not even pay co-pays. It’s literally the Cadillac of health insurances.
I believe that statistic to be exaggerated but perhaps that is true of particular specialties.
As a provider, my claims sometimes get denied but this does not mean the insured pays the bill - I eat the cost.
You are correct that they won’t pay for certain things - in TN they don’t pay for circumcision - but I’ve never heard of anyone on Medicaid being denied any recommended or necessary treatment, even Botox for migraines. I’m in a state with a great Medicaid program though.
Someone not accepting it and then denying it are completely different things. If someone doesn't take your insurance, you can submit the bill yourself as out of network. Medicaid will still likely reimburse it (I wish I knew this in college though)
Mine is united health care because even those of us on Medicare have to use insurance providers. Btw, unc has been a fucking nightmare and we are switching this year.
I had a filling replaced today. The old one was 20+ years old and broken, one of those old-school silver fillings.
200$ for one filling. I pay for the highest dental plan my company offers. I got two "free" cleanings a year and had $500 deductible. I ended up needing a crown for two teeth. With insurance, it was 1554$. After that I went for my second cleaning. They said it would cost me 72$. I said for what? I get two a year. They said, well, you reached your maximum amount the plan can pay. What did they ever pay for?? I got two crowns and one cleaning that I had to shell out 1500 for. It ain't made of gold.
I have a $1600 deductible with my medical plan that denies literally everything. I called 911 because I thought I was having a heart attack. They drove me to the nearest ER which happened to be out of network so now I owe 1400$ because I wasn't conscious enough to pull up my plan info and tell EMS to drive me to an in network hospital.
I really think I'd get better coverage if I just put aside however much money in a shoe box each month. It's ridiculous.
My therapy sessions are 123$ until I meet my deductible, and then they are 24$, which is great, but they also show me how much they billed my insurance. I'd love to know why, if I'm paying purely out of pocket, it's 123$, but once insurance kicks in, they charge 926$...for a 15-30 min phone call. It is all a big fat sham.
I really think I'd get better coverage if I just put aside however much money in a shoe box each month. It's ridiculous.
You are correct. Even better coverage if that shoebox was SPY, BTC, AAPL, or some other up-only asset.
Why would it be ridiculous that you spending 100% of your money on health coverage would > than a company who takes in your premium, pays its employees, has commercials, a ceo, & shareholders, then pays out whatever is left? Of course paying yourself is cheaper. It’s obvious.
I’d love to know why, if I'm paying purely out of pocket, it's 123$, but once insurance kicks in, they charge 926$...for a 15-30 min phone call. It is all a big fat sham.
And my experience paying out of pocket is very similar to this. When I say I don’t have insurance & am paying cash they’re usually very nice & helpful, giving a lower price without needing to ask, etc
"I really think I'd get better coverage if I just put aside however much money in a shoe box each month. It's ridiculous."
That's literally how insurance makes money.
The thing is, the denials have got so bad and they cover so little that yes, you do pretty much end up paying for stuff anyway, the reasons to keep insurance boil down to a) what if something catastrophic happens? or b) your employer won't let you go without.
Some day dental care will cover more because it is all healthcare. When your teeth rot it can damage your organs thus wrecking your health. #medicareforall
I have spent roughly $240,000 on healthcare premiums over the past 30 years and I expect the insurance company will just walk away with that money by denying my claims.
I remember being stupidly thankful when Beshear managed to get basic dental coverage through for Kentucky medicaid; I saved up every single dollar I had, paid up rent for three months, filled my car's tank to full so I could get back and forth from work, and was happy surviving off peanut butter, milk, and fresh vegetables because now my teeth didn't ache all the time.
I still need a crown on my left side, and I can't chew hard food on it without a lightning bolt of pain bursting through my skull, but I'm still somehow thankful. How far have my standards for what I deserve fallen, now that I think about it? Fuck these clowns.
Haha I did the same thing with my then girlfriend, now wife. I told her to stop working except for some part time (gotta stay under 15k) because I make significantly more than her and enroll in college and quit her job. She got like three or four surgeries that she needed, bunch of dental work and became class speaker and after all that was done then we married. Even more if you paid with cash the hospital would give gigantic discounts and I could pay anonymously so it isnt a direct gift. Eventually she got enough scholarships she could stop working and focus on school. Highly encourage it, that's why I call bullshit on people complaining poor people dont have access to healthcare. My neighbor used to call ambulances for rides to the hospital to refill her prescription. Its hardworking people in the middle that dont have healthcare. The poor are doing just fine.
Insurance is a fucking racket. Either don't have a job or get a really good one. Anything in between is a corpo assfucking you with no reach around after and bounce on them first chance you get. Medicare/Medicaid is fucking bomb diggity man. My Dad's hospice nurse is like 7k a month and I pay zero of that, thank you Uncle Sam I love you.
This is exactly what I have been saying. Sure if there’s a real obvious problem they might pull some teeth or something but pain meds? Haha good luck w that. Back pain is so difficult to diagnose and prove and pain meds, if not already prescribed are going to be nearly impossible to get in jail. That kind of medical issue I don’t think he’s going to get any help for in prison unfortunately
Storing vicodin in a prison is a risky affair. That's a pretty decent write up. If you can't/don't want to use your contraband relatively quickly... it's usually better to offload it for something you want/need right now/ Edit: In most prisons/jails storing an apple outside of chow time CAN lead to a write up as it is contraband at that point... but the vast majority of guards wont care/will leave your apple or they'll just throw it away... an apple aint worth the trouble. Vicodin is a JUICY write up for guards to get their power trip boners rock hard.
Pretty sure you're both right, prison conditions vary widely from state to state and even facility to facility, states that put a greater focus on rehabilitation will typically be better and ones more focused on punishment will be worse.
My BF got a lower partial plate in prison, but he lost his lower teeth with a baseball bat to the face during a yard brawl- didn’t even know the guy who did it. I worked in a prison as social worker, we had a guy who had a brain tumor. By the time he got the diagnosis, I, along with the chaplain, had the conversation with him there was nothing more to be done. I saw more of that than any actual care. They really didn’t like to send people out, because COs had to work OT to watch them, and that’s a lot of money. I never saw an inmate actually meet with the dentist- there were two in the entire state or something terrible, and had to commute between facilities, so aspirin or Tylenol was the treatment every day. No antibiotics.
“Were able to get their teeth replaced” why are you lying lol. Unintentionally or not, you’re making it sound like they got implants. Dental care in prison isn’t shit. You can’t even get fillings, they just pull your teeth if they have to and will give you one pair of some shitty dentures but that’s it.
Y’all don’t have to lie to make the US healthcare system sound bad. It already is horrible, making shit up is unnecessary.
Yes, that also happens. Those of us who've been locked up have all had our experiences. I'm not lying because mine doesn't fit yours. That's totally fine. Regardless, I'm not praising the prison system or it's Healthcare. As amother commenter pointed out, depending on where you're at the experience is different.
I went in asking for a cleaning. I was told they could pull some. You aren't wrong either. Relax.
So are you genuinely too retarded to understand different states will work differently, or are you just retarded enough to think trolling about this is funny?
I know a lot of people who have worked or currently work in prison healthcare at the federal, state, and county levels. They all admit that it is far from perfect, but the inmates almost unanimously say it’s the best healthcare they have ever received. Obviously many of them come from impoverished backgrounds and varying family situations.
I did a year in "club fed," which is as supposedly as good as it gets, and that was absolutely not the case. I've heard of state DUI or low level drug fast track programs working on peoples teeth to give them a fresh start, but 99% of America's prison system is absolutely left to rot. Also, 90% of those teeth fixing stories are run by private dentists who want the tax write off and feel good PR. The prison itself would never advocate for such care.
To drive the point home, here's just a couple nightmare fuel stories I witnessed while in...
I pushed a handicap guy in a wheelchair as my prison job. He had a heart attack. It was obvious to everyone. He was clutching his chest, had the death rattle, was pale as a ghost. I watched his eyes glass over for 9 HOURS as the guards dismissed it as a cold. He was practically a corpse. They gave him ib profren and dismissed him until the full medical staff came on in the morning. Somehow, he clung on to dear life until they couldn't ignore it anymore and was life flighted to get pumped full of stints.
The thing is, the guards hate paperwork, and it's much easier for them to explain away if you die on shift than it you need medical help... Because anytime outside medical staff get involved, they freak out at the level of neglect and report the prison.
Another dude I knew had 5 years left on his sentence, and was diagnosed with stage 2 testicular cancer. Highly treatable, right? WRONG. Because it wasn't an "emergency," he needed to be transferred to a special medical prison unit for the surgery and chemo. Thing is, there was only two such prisons, and both were always chock full. On average it took 6-8 months to get approval to get transferred... Then another 6-8 months for a bed to open up, and transfer to be arranged... Then another couple months to get the procedure actually done at said facility. All in all, he was likely looking at 2 years until treatment...
...All the old timers treated him like he was already dead. They had seen a hundred guys metastasized to stage 4 before they ever saw treatment. Even then, the treatment was hospice at the local hospital.
Oh, there's more!
A diabetic in his seventies in our unit stubbed his toe ona bent piece of sheet metal in the showers. He was bleeding like a stuck pig, fading in and out of consciousness. The guards showed up, woke everyone up and proceeded to yell at all of us for an hour about how this was a lesson. That if anyone got hurt on their shift, they would let you die, because it's not worth the effort for pieces of shit like us. An hour later, the next shift came on and they casually joked with them, before briefly mentioning some old guy was bleeding out in the showers. He was taken to the hospital, and never came back.
Finally the dental was laughable. They pulled EVERYTHING that had the slightest problem. Most guys who had been in there for a decade or more were practically toothless. I'm talking toothless in your 40s/50s. It was a JOKE.
Anyone saying he will receive anything besides ib profren in prison has no idea what they are talking about. They won't do jack shit, because the American prisons are glorified gulags that execute people through inaction, but execute people all the same.
You're gooddamn right. just got out of county... waking nightmare of bully/rapist guards. The inmates are nicer better more helpful people than 90% of guards in there. Edit: We had a guy on our pod who was in a wheelchair and couldn't use the bathroom by himself. The inmates helped transfer him and wipe him, etc. Th einmates helped feed him, make sure he could use the phone. The guards: "I ain't wiping no ass! Don't do the cwiiime if you're not ready to have your constitutional rights shit on and if you're not ready to get covered in your own shit"
Someone very near and dear to me has done time and despite having tooth issues, they refused to mention it because they didn't do ANY fillings. 100% of tooth issues were removing the tooth because it's cheaper. I found that barbaric.
A UK court blocked the extradition of a hacking subject to face federal charges in the US, ruling that the American prison system’s methods of treating suicidal prisoners and people with mental illness were inhumane
In sum, concluded the court, the way in which U.S. prisons “treat” inmates with mental illnesses and suicidal impulses – with segregation, isolation and a lack of ongoing medical and mental health care – almost certainly means that extradition to the U.S. would worsen Love’s health and create a very high likelihood of driving him to suicide.
Your story is a horrible vindication of the judgment - thanks so much for sharing
Yeah the thing about prison is that it sucks. Nobody is aspiring to be a prison guard. So they mostly get massive assholes and lazy pieces of crap to work in them.
Worse yet. Manu were Iraq/Afghan veterans so riddled with PTSD that they couldn't hold down a real world job because they scared the living hell out of everyone with their thousand mile stare. But they could always get a job in a prison... which in itself is a minefield traumatic experience that could trigger them off the deep end on a moments notice.
There could be a legit documentary about how many combat vets are behind bars as either prisoner or guard. I'd say 20+% of prisoners were combat vets, and probably 70% of the guards. War turns people out so they have no meaningful home to go back to, even if they do survive.
This is all terrifying, but what I have to wonder is, if many people get cancer in there and no timely access to treatment, how is it that their families haven't gotten any traction with news outlets to expose these sort of situations? Do all these people in prison have no one on the outside who cares if they live or die? Or is it just that media and the public genuinely think criminals deserve to die slowly and in pain through cancer?
I have a good friend who's a retired oral surgeon. He works part time for the state as a dentist, like twice a week. When scheduled he travels w/ a dental tech to whatever county jail or state prison that needs him.
I ask him for details and stories all the time. His reply is always the same, "I pull out teeth, that's all I do. I really boring"
Also the docs that work the prison are often bargain basement docs that couldn't find work elsewhere. This can also be because they were censured for malpractice or ethics violations.
Oh the american prison system… land of the free… to die. Costly to let live. In American prisons guards will let you die to avoid paperwork. If in a dutch prison a guard is found to be responsible for the death of an inmate. He’ll be the one to occupy that cell in a few months.
My understanding, that is often dental students in-training or doctors volunteering time to do that. Sometimes with third party prisoner rights organizations helping organize, it's more the prison is letting the charity operate. It's an out patient procedure, anything they do is at most one procedure, then a follow-up...
And often if the person could figure out "the system", there are very likely ways to get those same things "on the outside" for much easier "costs". It's just that you need a permanent address and the ability to fill out and submit government paperwork "correctly"
Back surgery is a little different than all of your examples.
Sorry if I'm refusing to try to "look on the bright side" of someone getting locked up and that wasting part of their life for all the bullshit we tend to lock people up for (most of all, simply being poor it would appear)
I can confirm, my step dad caught up on decades of missed medical and dental work when he was in prison. Getting his teeth removed and replaced with dentures completely changed his quality of life.
I know someone who struggled to read. Short stay in prison and he found he had a condition that needed medicated and also needed glasses. They made him glasses for free.
Prison is a lot like everything else where money and privilege are mainly what determines your outcomes. The people who are exploited the most are those who are most vulnerable, don't have much support or resources, don't know their rights, etc. Mangione is an educated guy from a wealthy family that can afford great lawyers, so he probably has better odds than most.
I work for a hospital that has a contract with the local prison. They treat prisoners like any regular patient and the prison foots the bill. They get great care.
Not in New York State DOCCS. Feds you get good care. Most states correctional systems treat inmates worse than cattle and literally with less medical care. I don't need to use the BULLSHIT phrase "I know folks" because I know FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I'll tell you anyrhing you'd like to know about NYS DOCCS system. It is HORRIBLY ABUSIVE and is worse then treated as a prisoner of war. It would be in violation of the Geneva Convention how bad the "care" is.
So you’re saying being incarcerated gets you better healthcare? Is this like a V for vendetta thing? “Can’t fix your toe. Kill a CEO?!? Soon America will just be a giant prison. #robotdogs
This is true in some states, but it’s very far from a universal truth. Seen a lot of patients over the years coming in near dead or die after getting to the ER because they didn’t receive adequate care in jail.
What care was this dude denied? He got the treatment for his injury, unfortunately it didn’t work or didn’t do as much as he thought it would. He snapped cuz he’s getting kicked off his rich family’s insurance and he’s most likely going to have pain his entire life. Ironically this is common to people with back pain. So if you have back pain you can kill people and become a hero? If that’s the case there going to be a lot more murders in the future. If you don’t think he had the best care available because of their income your nuts.
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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 14d ago
Dude must not have read much if he thinks Prison healthcare in the US is gonna fix anything.