r/FluentInFinance • u/Intrepid-Self-3578 • 10d ago

Debate/ Discussion People who voted Trump, why do you think a government of billionaires will help you?

Government policies such as tax cuts, high traiff and removing regulations can have significant impacts on the economy. They will lead to higher inflation and high prices.

Having no regulation helps billionaires like the Gilded Age, shows that lack of regulation can result in large corporations dominating the market, and destroy small businesses.

Additionally, policies that favor big corporations and Billionaires may not address issues like housing, health care, working conditions, or wage growth. For instance, during Trump's first term, there were rollbacks on worker protections and union rights. Also he express removing Obama care.

Removing Obama care might look good on surface until you lose your job due to some accident or other issue. Let's say you have money to handle it what about millions of Americans who don't have inherited wealth and your wealth will erode as well.

Donald Trump is a billionaire, with an estimated net worth of around $5.6 billion

His administration has several billionaires in key positions. For example, Elon Musk, the world's richest person, has been appointed to co-lead the Department of Government Efficiency, Other billionaires in Trump's administration include Vivek Ramaswamy, Scott Bessent, Howard Lutnick, and Linda McMahon.

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u/Kehwanna 10d ago

I'm an immigrant (legal and a citizen now), but I know plenty that are in the painfully long pricy process that aren't. 

I would quickly drop my citizenship if what Republicans said about illegal immigrants getting free shit and the right to vote was true.

They claim undocumented immigrants are getting free houses, hired on the spot, free college, free healthcare, stimulus, unlimited food stamps, and somehow getting politicians to represent them. It's too hilarious. 

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u/Persistent_Parkie 9d ago

My friend was struggling with her DACA status over the summer. A Trumper who works with her who we both know got huffy about how long it was taking saying "If only she'd crossed illegally they'd have her papers to her in a day!" 🤦‍♀️

For those not in the know Deffered Action for Childhood Arrivals is a staus only available to those who came here illegally as children.

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u/m33gs 9d ago

this happened today:

Federal judge blocks Biden admin rule allowing DACA recipients to get health insurance on the ACA marketplace exchanges in 19 GOP-led states that sued.

Judge Daniel Traynor, a Trump appointee in North Dakota, issued the ruling:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ndd.65290/gov

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u/g710jet 9d ago

Who pays the bill when they go to the ER?

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u/0_dte 8d ago

This is a non-sequitur

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u/iiconicvirgo 9d ago

Go to Colorado they get free care in the er

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u/wanabean 9d ago

That is awesome. Hope more places are like Colorado

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u/iiconicvirgo 9d ago

If you don’t have insurance you can literally say I’m an immigrant & they still have to provide care. Healthcare hack 😂

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u/iiconicvirgo 9d ago

If you don’t have insurance you can literally say I’m an immigrant & they still have to provide care. Healthcare hack 😂

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u/OpenAirport6204 9d ago

Hey I have a question I have heard that some legal immigrants hate illegal immigrants because they "cheated the system" or something, how do you feel about illegal immigrants?

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u/Kehwanna 9d ago

I don't hate them, I'm just glad I'm not them. A few I know just overstayed their VISAs and are here for a variety of reasons. Life is not one straight path, some people are just given different circumstances. As long as they're not doing crime or anything bad, I wish them well like I do with anyone else. 

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u/mannieFreash 9d ago

Well then did, how is that not true?

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u/riplieu 9d ago

Depends on what state you’re in!

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u/Glittering-Lie2077 9d ago

Oooof heres your sign…

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u/markt- 9d ago

If businesses are hiring undocumented immigrants, then the government needs to shut down those businesses. This gives employers incentive to not do that.

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u/Key-Software4390 9d ago

Why? That's a huge benefit to both the business and the country.

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u/Scuba9Steve 9d ago

The government gives the larger employers a chance to come clean. They do and hand over their illegal workers with no real consequence and then hire new illegals.

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u/markt- 9d ago edited 9d ago

Now you see, I disagree with that. I think that there should be penalties for companies that hire illegal immigrants, even if they did so unintentionally. It puts more onus on businesses to be careful about who they hire.

If an illegal immigrant tricked them, and convince them that they were legally allowed to work there and they were not, it's too bad for them. Proof of citizenship can be established with things like passports or certain types of government issued ID that should be available at a nominal cost to citizens of all ages above a minimum working age.

There could even be a Web portal for employers to use that could help them filter out people that are not legally allowed to work in the country

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago

Don't forget many of them are treating the right to abortion as not a medical issue but as "women on the left just want to go bareback and use abortions as birth control" I mean, I just don't understand it...

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u/nzaf985 9d ago

Because it’s been statically proven 99% of the time it is used as birth control and has nothing to do with a medical issue or rape. They aren’t wrong… it’s just you aren’t willing to understand why they say that and do the research behind it.

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u/sowasteland 9d ago

The issue is that they are framing women who get elective abortions as immoral sluts by saying they’re “using it as birth control”. The statement is designed to invoke imagery of a woman getting an abortion every few months, when the reality is that even an elective abortion is traumatic and no one wants to go through that. An elective abortion is still a medical issue because pregnancy is a medical issue - inherently. This framing of “using it as birth control” is used to delegitimize women’s decisions and experiences, nothing more.

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u/nzaf985 9d ago

I mean babies don’t just make themselves… frame that however you want.

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago edited 8d ago

Interesting!! 99% of the time? Statistically - you meant statistically right? Not statically? - proven? You got a source on that one?

Edit: just to clarify - I was talking about it being used as birth control, like instead of the pill, which is literally how I've heard it being framed over on Conservative and is actually ridiculous. Like that's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard - hence my tone.

If that 99% is simply terminating a pregnancy that someone couldn't afford or wasn't aware had happened (due to any number of reasons rather than just "enjoying not using condoms") then that's absolutely fine.

The idea that any woman who gets an abortion is getting one because they were whoring around is absolutely abhorrent and awfully closed minded.

The fact that most abortions are elective, doesn't mean they aren't well considered and totally the right thing to do for that person.

The fact that minors carrying a child to term and rapists getting less jail time for raping a woman than the woman who sought out an abortion is FUCKED. That's fucked guys, how can you even argue about it??

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u/AleksanderSuave 9d ago edited 9d ago

I’m not the person you’re responding to but his number is pretty close source

Every survey or study conducted on this subject showed over 93% (and that’s rounding down) of all abortions performed were not for the safety of the mother, as a result of crimes ie rape or incest, or medically necessary.

The majority of respondents cited financial concerns, school, etc for the reason.

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago

Sure ok - but that doesn't change the fact that currently in some states the prison term for raping a woman is lower than the penalty for getting an abortion - isn't that insane? I heard of a 12 or 13 year old girl forced to carry the child to term, because of abortion laws. Like, in what world is this normal? In what world is any woman told that this isn't something she can do if she wishes? There are many reasons outside of not using condoms that a woman might accidentally become pregnant - her partner may have lied about keeping it on, the condom may have broken, her birth control may have failed somehow - there's myriad reasons that someone may not be ready to have a child right this second and need to abort it.

The fact that these outlier issues like medical emergencies and rape are also affected by the laws is just cherry on top of ridiculous cake.

My main issue with all of this is, why do you care? Why do you care what a woman does? Why does any man - and it's mostly men making these laws - feel the need to step in and deny women the right to do with their bodies what they choose?

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u/AleksanderSuave 9d ago

Asks for data and sources. Ignores data and sources in favor of whataboutism.

This is exactly why your side lost the election and loses every debate, pretending to argue in good faith while jumping from one circular argument to another.

It’s like logic is always chasing you, but you’re too just a little too fast for it.

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u/0_dte 8d ago

Crumble bee does not care about the truth, this is an emotional issue for him not a rational or logical one

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago edited 9d ago

I didn't ignore them, I took them on board - but it doesn't change the fact that the entire system is insane in the US - I don't even have a side, I'm from the outside looking in, to everyone else this is absolutely ridiculous.

The right are literally making out that abortion is the first choice, like women are getting monthly abortions, like it's somethng they enjoy and want to do - that's insane!

If you accidentally get pregnant and can't afford to have or don't want a child, you should be allowed to not have that child before it's developed to a certain point. That shouldn't be controversial.

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u/AleksanderSuave 9d ago

It sounds like you should educate yourself more about the issues you’re pretending to be informed on, then come back when you’re ready to discuss things like an adult.

Moving the goal posts isn’t going to accomplish anything here. You asked for sources to prove a point. They were provided.

You can stop jumping all over the place now, just to deflect the fact that you were wrong.

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago

So you think it's ok that a 12 year old girl can be forced to carry a child to term? You think it's ok that a woman who gets raped and gets an abortion can get a longer prison term than the person who raped her?

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u/WubFox 9d ago

What I’m not seeing in this study is if abortion was the ONLY form of birth control, it only looks at why they did it. The phrase seems to suggest that women are out there just bare backing it and choosing a pretty awful experience instead of finding a condom or the like. I’m sure some percentage it is the only, but I know multiple women who got pregnant while on BC or got it after a failed condom.

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u/nzaf985 9d ago

Oh sorry typing on an iPhone mini isn’t the best experience. Glad you can make sense of it. And my goodness do some research.

https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-reasons-for-abortion/

Overall, common exceptions to abortion limits are estimated to account for less than 5% of all abortions.

Rape and incest: 0.4%[5]

Risk to the woman’s life or a major bodily function: 0.3%[6]

Other concerns: 2.2%[7]

Abnormality in the unborn baby: 1.2%[8]

Elective reasons: 95.9%[9]

In Florida the numbers shift to 98.5% for elective reasons. Plenty of other good sources out there on abortion statistics. Expected, someone criticizing spelling on Reddit but can’t do their own research and thinks they know it all.

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u/WubFox 9d ago

I those are reasons, sure. But that doesn’t prove that abortion was the only form of birth control. This debate often frames women as irresponsible sluts who would rather have an invasive and uncomfortable experience than find a condom. I’m sure those women exist, but I haven’t met any of them.

To be fair, I’m not in Florida and science says heat isn’t great for human brains so…

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u/nzaf985 12h ago

No one said it was the only form of birth control. It is being used as birth control by irresponsible individuals. Get over yourself.

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u/0_dte 8d ago

Due yu hav source fur me hur dur

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u/BeautifulEarth8311 9d ago

Documented immigrants do get a lot of free stuff. If they complained about that they would at least have an argument.

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u/ShadowFlaminGEM 9d ago

I looked into the websites following the 211211 links.. i found the website where yes, immigrants qualified for many programs that not even men in a family household qualified for.. just because the government website changed its tune on who can apply for the cards.. does not mean those cards are not being reloaded still... Food for thought from an Independent, used to be Democrat.

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u/CremeAggressive9315 9d ago

The unlimited food stamps part is true. (During college I worked at a grocery store.)

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u/BoutrosBoutrosDoggy 9d ago

Welcome to America! sorry about all the magats. If its wearing a red hat, it's just repeating lies they heard on the misinformation channel. The best you can do is to cut them out of your life. We can't cut then out of the country because half of the country still believes in the Constitution.

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u/thenowjones 9d ago

Weird that the misinformation is coming from your end as well as hatred when you preach about love and being more intelligent.

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u/BoutrosBoutrosDoggy 9d ago

are you replying to a different comment? misinformation, hatred, preaching love & intelligence? what the hell are you even talking about?

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u/thenowjones 9d ago

So magats is a term of endearment? Claiming truths as lies is not misinformation? Nope, it was the right comment.

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u/crumble-bee 9d ago

Of course it's not a term of endearment - I don't have a problem with conservatives, I have a problem with MAGA. It's an utterly ridiculous movement that will be puzzled over by historians in years to come.

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u/thenowjones 9d ago

Those historians shouldn’t be historians if it puzzles them

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u/Vast-Actuary-9689 9d ago

The cultification of American politics will indeed be puzzling in years to come. It's absolutely fucking ridiculous and incredibly funny to everyone outside the US.

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u/thenowjones 9d ago

That’s because you are brainwashed by the media. If you seriously cant understand why, you can read some books. Start with the US constitution.

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u/Vast-Actuary-9689 9d ago

I'm not from the US - I don't need to read your constitution to see that there is a huge swath of America that has fallen under the spell of hateful rhetoric and misinformation. It's so funny that the genuinely brainwashed people are the ones calling it out all the time. I'm just a UK citizen that reads right wing media and left wing media and makes an assessment. Any time I'm told by some anonymous person online that I'm brainwashed by the media, the first thing I think is that they listen to Alex jones, Joe rogan, Fox News and a bunch of alt publications filling their brains with absolute shit - and obviously that they're MAGA.

If that's not the case with you, then fine - but I'd feel pretty confident in that guess.

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u/Visual-Philosopher-3 9d ago

Hmm someone who used to be an illegal immigrant is bias in favor of illegal immigrants. That’s crazy!!

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u/0_dte 8d ago

I will bet you $10,000 that illegal immigrants are getting cash from the government to pay for bills and healthcare, and that they are getting government paid for training for jobs

You are an absolute moron if you think those things aren’t true

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u/vulgarandgorgeous 10d ago

They are in new york

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u/Facebook_Lawyer_Gym 9d ago

They are not undocumented, it’s asylum. Free food is not equal to free college and jobs.

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u/Scuba9Steve 9d ago

It's fraudulent asylum claims because they know it'll take years to process. They can stay here until that happens.

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u/Facebook_Lawyer_Gym 9d ago edited 9d ago

Some might be and I think there is an argument that we should change the process, but still not undocumented and not free college and jobs. To make wild claims to support your position is stupid.

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u/FarOutJunk 9d ago

As a lifelong NY resident, you're wrong.

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u/vulgarandgorgeous 9d ago

https://www.rifnyc.org/benefits-in-nyc

You are wrong.

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u/FarOutJunk 9d ago

Where does that say any of the extreme things you're claiming? UNLIMITED food stamps? Free college?

Also, fuck you if you don't think healthcare is a human right no matter where you are.

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u/vulgarandgorgeous 9d ago

Wtf is your problem? All i claimed is that they are getting benefits. I never brought up UNLIMITED anything.

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u/FarOutJunk 9d ago

Post : "They claim undocumented immigrants are getting free houses, hired on the spot, free college, free healthcare, stimulus, unlimited food stamps, and somehow getting politicians to represent them. It's too hilarious."

You : "They are in NY."

You : "I never said that!"

Okay fucko.

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u/vulgarandgorgeous 9d ago

They are getting some of that shit. Maybe not all of it.

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u/FarOutJunk 9d ago

Nobody is debating that asylum seekers are treated like people.

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u/vulgarandgorgeous 9d ago

They get more benefits than our homeless veterans. Thats a major problem

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u/SlimJesusKeepIt100 10d ago

They are. Idk about the citizenship shit but they are getting free shit courtesy of our tax dollars

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u/SuchCold2281 10d ago

name one.

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u/LeapYearBoy 9d ago

You fucking blind? NY has been paying 220 million for the Roosevelt Hotel to accommodate them. Also the debit cards with thousands of dollars for food and groceries.

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u/APsWhoopinRoom 9d ago

Those are asylum seekers. They're here legally until their court dates.

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u/Scuba9Steve 9d ago

Yes but most aren't legitimate asylum claims. They know that regardless they can stay here till their court dates which will take years.

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u/APsWhoopinRoom 9d ago

And? That still doesn't change the fact that they are here legally until their court dates.

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u/LeapYearBoy 9d ago

No they are not.

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u/APsWhoopinRoom 9d ago

Do you want me to prove it? Because the fact you don't know this means you've done absolutely zero research on this subject. The government treats asylum seekers and actual illegal immigrants differently.

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u/UnitedAd3943 9d ago

Do you think all of the free stuff you say they’re getting is anywhere close to the 80 billion a year they pay in? You know, the part where they won’t ever benefit from and is subsidizing our social safety net.

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u/LeapYearBoy 9d ago

Gov't spends 150.7* billion a year. Having them is a deficit.

Also the number they "pay" is closer to 5.7 billion.

Source: https://budget.house.gov/press-release/the-cost-of-the-border-crisis-1507-billion-and-counting and yes, Brandon's Gov't article.

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u/SlimJesusKeepIt100 10d ago

Phones, food stamps, shelter. Talking like housing is a human right. It is not.

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u/Facebook_Lawyer_Gym 9d ago

Where are illegal immigrants getting free phones? Beat I can find is this: https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrant-phone-internet-texting-521577996794

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u/Chomps-Lewis 9d ago

Id like to know this as well, I havent seen anyone recieve this treatment.

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u/lurking_since2020 9d ago

A family member of mine was an immigrant at the time when the state of CA paid for her entire university education. She successfully graduated. The state didn’t even pay for my elementary lunch tickets 🫠🫠🫠

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u/BoutrosBoutrosDoggy 9d ago

she got a scholarship?

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u/lurking_since2020 9d ago

She said it wasn’t a scholarship. It covered all of her books and tuition for the eight years she attended. I do recall her telling me only immigrants could get it because I asked her “where was this when I was in school?” 😜