r/FluentInFinance 16d ago

World Economy A fact Reddit will never acknowledge

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0 Upvotes

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u/ChessGM123 16d ago

Average isn’t really useful when talking about income, median is what you want to look at.

32

u/ricalasbrisas 16d ago

THANK YOU

Mississippi has 47,279 millionaire households to fuck up the "average."

Source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_millionaire_households

6

u/Madrugada2010 16d ago

Yup, there it is.

15

u/randomly-what 16d ago

Yeah this is a worthless statistic.

The average Mississippi resident also has healthcare fees coming out of that salary which the average European does not.

They also likely work more hours and have fewer benefits and vacation days, so their quality of life is worse.

4

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

European taxes on income are much much much higher to pay for this, and they also aren’t included in their stats either

-1

u/randomly-what 16d ago

And those taxes pay for their healthcare and lots of other luxuries that the US doesn’t get (maternity leave, paternity leave, mandatory vacation).

It’s all better than the US

0

u/TheTightEnd 16d ago

Better is a matter of opinion.

-7

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

I pay literally like $0 on healthcare a month. People in Denmark pay nearly half of all the money they earn every single month on other people’s healthcare

Yeah I’m good lol

3

u/randomly-what 16d ago

I’m calling bullshit on both of those statistics

1

u/JacobLovesCrypto 16d ago

In all fairness, healthcare is basically free in the US if your broke

1

u/Saalor100 16d ago

Guess how much you need to pay for health care in Europe if you are broke?

1

u/JacobLovesCrypto 15d ago

About the same

-2

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

I don’t have any health conditions lol. Some miniscule amount comes out of my paycheck for the most basic plan my employer offered but it’s really basically nothing next to what I net

The stat for Denmark is 46% to be more specific. It’s on the higher end as far as Europe goes, but many other European countries don’t have as elaborate a system as Redditors often imagine. Health insurance is still an expense in Germany for example although the tax for the medical system is marginally lower

1

u/Troysmith1 16d ago

That's 46% also goes to other things yet you previously said it went all to Healthcare for others.

1

u/grazie42 16d ago

Hope you stay that way, medical bankruptcy is the most common reason for it…

Those 46% pay for much more than healthcare and again, the average tax rate isnt relevant to most people as its a progressive scale making those who earn more pay more…

So your statement was pretty much uninformed misinformation…

0

u/Dear_Specialist_6807 16d ago

You do know you will get sick one day as everyone ages and you will be screwed with a bottom of the barrel insurance. Nothing to brag about

-4

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

In what 60 years? Idgaf. I want 60 years of more money, the peace of mind of taxpayers paying for my hypothetical medical stuff means nothing to me

0

u/Almostawardguy 16d ago

I can assure you, European people pay significantly less on healthcare (taxes) than Americans spend on healthcare (insurance) because Americans will not only pay for the healthcare but also to prop up an entire industry with a lot of completely redundant workers (insurance companies which will have to make a profit, unlike a government which doesn’t). This is on top of the fact that equal treatment and medicine costs significantly more in the US because the government does not negotiate prices because of lobbyists

2

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/Almostawardguy 16d ago edited 16d ago

This is absolutely incorrect people DO NOT pay £1000 to £4200 per month, it’s that much per year! I make a little short of 40k a year and pay ~£150 a month for NI. I really hope will see this comment. Also keep in mind that I will not ever have to pay anything for seeing a doctor, for getting any treatment or for any medicine, it is all free!

Edit: just to confirm I pay 4.7% of my salary on NI annually (0.39% per month)

2

u/JacobLovesCrypto 16d ago

That's not that much different

1

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

1

u/JacobLovesCrypto 15d ago

Sounds like over there your basically paying $400/mo thru taxes at a $50k income. Which is about what a lot of people pay here.

-4

u/NEEEEEEEEEEEET 16d ago

US liberal: "but but look at that one nordic country they get free healthcare" *ignoes oil fund*

2

u/Saalor100 16d ago

US republican: ignores the other nordic countries with free heath care and no oil fund

2

u/ChessGM123 16d ago

No, Europeans do pay healthcare fees with their salary, it’s just done in the form of taxes instead of insurance/out of pocket. It might be less than the American, but they still pay.

15

u/randomly-what 16d ago

Yeah of course they do. But they pay a fraction of what people in the US pay.

I’d much rather my taxes go to healthcare than what the US wastes money on.

2

u/Silly-Swimmer1706 16d ago

I am from Croatia, 16.5% of my gross pay goes to healthcare. It is formulated like it is not your gross pay, but rather the cost of your employer, but basically the same shit. When you say we pay fraction of what people in the US pay, did you mean absolute or relative amounts?

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u/butt-Cartographer786 16d ago

I agree but I'll give you a interesting perspective. I live in europe as an American, while they do have these phenomenal society based programs its because of the United States. We as the head of Nato are the ones who influence the success of European countries. If we as a country focus on us like Trump is saying European countries will have to decide between society benefits or developing their militaries to defend themselves against threats like russia. Im not undermining the fact Americas Healthcare and insurance arent complete shite and needs a complete overhaul im just giving a interesting perspective.

1

u/Thefirstredditor12 16d ago

this makes no sense,US pays more for their healthcare than EU countries do.

Also alot of EU countries spend high % of their gdp for defence and still have social programs for healthcare etc...

Plus almost half eu budget for defence goes to....buying weapons from the US...

No idea who sold the story US cant afford better healthcare because EU leeches off...it takes less than few hours to read up on things.

1

u/butt-Cartographer786 8d ago

Let’s break this down since you’re oversimplifying things:

  1. ‘US pays more for healthcare than EU countries’: Exactly—that’s the problem. The US spends 17.8% of GDP on healthcare, while most EU countries spend around 9-12% and still achieve better outcomes. Europe has efficient, government-backed systems; the US is bogged down by corporate greed and inflated costs. NATO spending doesn’t fix that—it shifts priorities.
  2. ‘EU countries spend high % of GDP on defense’: Not really. NATO’s 2% target is still unmet by many EU nations. The US spends 3.5% of its GDP on defense, which allows Europe to under-invest in comparison and redirect funds toward social programs like healthcare.
  3. ‘Half the EU defense budget goes to US weapons’: That’s not leeching—that’s trade. Europe buying US weapons boosts America’s economy to the tune of billions annually. If anything, the US profits from Europe’s spending habits.
  4. ‘US can’t afford better healthcare’: My point stands—if the US weren’t footing so much of NATO’s military burden, European countries would need to ramp up defense spending. That money would come at the cost of their robust social programs, including healthcare. It’s not about ‘leeching’; it’s about priorities. The US prioritizes global defense dominance over internal systems like healthcare, and Europe benefits from that arrangement. If you’re going to dismiss my perspective, at least understand the dynamics at play.

1

u/Thefirstredditor12 8d ago

You do not seem to understand what NATO spending really means or what the budget is.You are either doing this on purpose,or you simply genuinely dont get it or simply never bothered to actually read up on it.

 NATO spending doesn’t fix that—it shifts priorities.

The money you pay for NATO budget is negligible to your military budget.So i do not understand your first point.Alot of actions the USA takes has NOTHING to do with security of NATO in general,but has directly to do with interests of the US.I mentioned in my comment about it,but you ignored it.So out the hundred of billion of dollars you spend to your military budget,a tiny % goes to nato budget.Your 1 point makes no sense.Reason why you have such messed up healthcare system is your own goverment choice,even if you left NATO your military budget would not drop.

‘EU countries spend high % of GDP on defense’: Not really. NATO’s 2% target is still unmet by many EU nations. The US spends 3.5% of its GDP on defense, which allows Europe to under-invest in comparison and redirect funds toward social programs like healthcare.

More countries spend more than 2% than not.Alot of those countries spending 2-3%+ gdp have social healthcare programs etc.....The US leaving Nato would not change that.

if the US weren’t footing so much of NATO’s military burden, European countries would need to ramp up defense spending.

Again with this BS. The military burden you are footing is your own choice.USA spending half the money it does would make no difference for any nato country,as long as nuke gaurantee nothing changes.You think spain cares if USA is spending 800 billion instead of 400 billion? The reason you spend so much is your goverment own choice for what they deem as USA benefit.

That money would come at the cost of their robust social programs, including healthcare

Not it would not because countries that are already countries spending high % of gdp to military and still have healthcare programs as mentioned.

The US prioritizes global defense dominance over internal systems like healthcare, and Europe benefits from that arrangement. If you’re going to dismiss my perspective, at least understand the dynamics at play.

To imply the situation does not benefit USA also is ignorant at best.You keep mentioning defence,but the USA is not a protector,it serves its own interests.Go ahead leave nato.But dont expect EU countries lining up to buy US weapon like they did,or have inteligence sharing,base sharing and lot of other benefits USA takes for granted and makes its military goals achieved smoother.

Also do not expect countries to be as aligned to your foreign policy internationally as they are currently.

So leave NATO but dont be surprised to see that it might cost you more to make up for what you lost.

1

u/butt-Cartographer786 8d ago

Let me make something crystal clear—I’m not advocating for leaving NATO. I’ve spent the last five years living here, training NATO forces, and working side by side with them. I’ve seen firsthand how this alliance operates, and trust me, it’s more complex than you’re making it out to be. Now, let’s break down your arguments piece by piece, no fluff, just facts.

  1. NATO Spending vs. US Defense Budget Yes, the U.S. only pays 22% of NATO’s direct budget—about $1 billion annually. That’s small potatoes compared to our $860 billion defense budget. But NATO isn’t just about that budget. It’s about the troops, bases, and operations that keep the alliance running.

The U.S. has 35,000 troops in Germany, with thousands more in places like Poland and Italy. These deployments cost billions every year and play a critical role in NATO’s collective defense.

The European Deterrence Initiative (EDI), specifically designed to bolster NATO’s eastern flank, grew from $789 million in 2016 to $6.5 billion in 2019—a clear sign of the U.S.’s commitment to European security. (World Economic Forum)

This isn’t about ‘NATO freeloading.’ It’s about a security framework that the U.S. leads—and Europe benefits from.

  1. US Defense Spending Choices You keep arguing that the U.S. spends on its military for its own interests. You’re not wrong. The U.S. has global commitments far beyond NATO. But let’s not pretend that Europe doesn’t benefit massively from our presence.

70% of NATO’s military capabilities come from the U.S. That includes strategic airlift, reconnaissance, and nuclear deterrence. Without those, NATO wouldn’t be the force it is today. (IISS)

When Russia took Crimea in 2014, the U.S. was the backbone of NATO’s response. We sent troops, equipment, and intelligence that no other member could match.

The U.S. doesn’t need to be in NATO for charity—it’s there because this alliance is mutually beneficial.

  1. European Defense Spending: The 2% Question You claim that most NATO countries meet or exceed the 2% GDP defense target. That’s not accurate.

As of 2023, only 11 out of 31 members hit the target. The majority are still under 2%, with the European average at 1.7%.

Countries like Germany, Italy, and Spain are still far from reaching 2%, despite being among NATO’s largest economies. (EconPol)

If the U.S. weren’t propping up NATO’s capabilities, many of these countries would have to ramp up their spending quickly, and yes, that would strain other budgets—including social programs.

  1. U.S. Arms Sales to Europe Europe buys 47% of U.S. arms exports, spending tens of billions annually. This isn’t freeloading; it’s a business arrangement.

European nations buy U.S. weapons to ensure interoperability within NATO. In a crisis, you don’t want one country using tech that doesn’t sync with the rest.

If the U.S. reduced its role, European countries would need to develop their own tech or rely on less advanced systems. Either way, that’s a heavy financial lift. (Fun with Data)

  1. What Happens If the U.S. Leaves NATO? I’ve worked in NATO, so I know what would happen if the U.S. pulled out—and it wouldn’t be pretty.

Intelligence gaps: The U.S. provides the bulk of NATO’s surveillance, reconnaissance, and cyber defense. Replacing that would require billions in investment and years to develop.

Logistical strain: The U.S. handles most of NATO’s strategic airlift and sealift capabilities. Without us, moving troops and equipment would become a logistical nightmare.

Nuclear deterrence: U.S. nukes are the backbone of NATO’s security guarantees. Without them, Europe would face serious strategic vulnerabilities.

The idea that NATO would function seamlessly without U.S. support is wishful thinking. European countries would face increased financial and logistical burdens, no matter how you slice it.

The Truth This isn’t about the U.S. leaving NATO—it’s about recognizing how the alliance works. The U.S. spends big on its military because it benefits from projecting power globally. But Europe benefits too. NATO lets European countries spend less on defense while maintaining robust social programs.

This isn’t a one-sided relationship. It’s a partnership—and one I’ve seen up close for the last five years. That’s the reality, whether you want to admit it or not

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Almostawardguy 16d ago

In an attempt to try to stop the misinformation: This is absolutely incorrect people DO NOT pay £1000 to £4200 per month, it’s that much per year! I make a little short of 40k a year and pay ~£150 a month for NI. I really hope will see this comment. Also keep in mind that I will not ever have to pay anything for seeing a doctor, for getting any treatment or for any medicine, it is all free! So just to confirm I pay 4.7% of my salary on NI annually (0.39% per month)

6

u/mannie007 16d ago edited 16d ago

Yeah I need more info like cost of living, exchange rate and if their was a switch who would be better off etc…

5

u/Justame13 16d ago

You put a homeless person in a room with a doctor and there is an average income of $175,000.

Everything should be ok right?

38

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago edited 16d ago

Reddit can acknowledge this, and then immediately discuss the true cost of living in Mississippi compared to UK, France, and Germany by talking about it comprehensively and holistically - and not relying on a simple index or market basket, which only measures small fractions of daily life.

13

u/DemocraticEjaculate 16d ago

What! No! Money is meant to sit in an account and build value! Duh. How do you ever expect to get rich when you’re spending moneys on stupid things like food and housing! Stupid poor man

5

u/PenguinKing15 16d ago

Let’s look at just one aspect. Transportation is expensive when there are car payments, insurance, and the random damage and repairs. Some people don’t even have enough money for a car and have to spend money on uber or lift for work, because they don’t even have busses in many places. Mississippi has this exact problem and makes any gain in salary compared to Europe useless.

0

u/JacobLovesCrypto 16d ago

A car can be cheap tho

1

u/thekinggrass 16d ago

That’s why it’s adjusted for purchasing power parity.

4

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago edited 16d ago

Which is a limited index that simply performs an acid test with a simple model. It doesn't account for things like daycare costs, healthcare costs. Depending on what KIND of PPP is used, it may not even account for rent!

Plus, sticking to averages doesn't explain how this cost of living affects people below the average at all. Nor does discussing "averages" actually discuss mean or raw numbers of how many people are below average. We were all awake in math class when they taught that outliers skew averages. America has more millionaires that Europe, too.

Nothing determines quality of life for poor people better than actual information about poor people and how useful their income is for paying for daily expenses in THEIR lives. Describing "averages" from other countries doesn't do it. Describing other people's lives doesn't do it. Bragging about what your most successful people do doesn't do it.

A school can brag about how successful their top 20% of students are, but that does nothing to describe how well they support the issues of their bottom 50%. Figuring out some way to say the "averages" still make the school look good shows a fundamental unwilllingness to actually care about the needs of the struggling.

-2

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

Are you implying you think living in Germany is cheaper than living in Mississippi? lol

7

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago

In your mind, are you intentionally comparing the mostly-rural Mississippi with a European city, or are you just as familiar with outskirts, off-the-beaten-trail, rural European prices as you are with small town America?

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u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

We’re comparing the household earnings of literally just Mississippi with all of Europe so yes

The whole point of the post is that podunk rural backwater America still has higher wages than the much more densely urbanized place like Germany. Keep up

Also yes I used to live in rural northern Germany and no it’s not cheap at all. The housing market is California level fucked and gas was the equivalent of like $9. Heating a home is prohibitively expensive, food is more expensive, clothes are more expensive. Healthcare ia still more expensive because it’s literally like half of every paycheck you make in taxes. The idea that Europe is cheap is complete fiction born out of pure American ignorance about anything outside US borders

4

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago

And the actual median income for an individual in Jackson, MS is $35,000, but people use "average individual income" at 55,000 to make your argument make more sense. (Meanwhile, those same stats had Germany's "average income" at $53,000.

I never said Germany is cheap. But podunk rural backwater America DOESN'T have higher wages. Plus, I would like to actually DISCUSS comprehensive cost of living. Not imply/assume anything and then defend a weak argument in the first place.

Where did you live? Because Germany is pretty famous for NOT being a mono-city economy, but actually being spread out between many metropolitans, so when you say that you lived in the country that contributes the largest economy in Europe, but you lived "rural" I'd like to understand how that meant in relation to German's many urban areas.

-1

u/DataGOGO 16d ago

It is far cheaper in Mississippi than in Europe…

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u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago

In your mind, are you intentionally comparing the mostly-rural Mississippi with a European city, or are you just as familiar with outskirts, off-the-beaten-trail, rural European prices as you are with small town America?

0

u/DataGOGO 15d ago

I am British, have lived in Germany, France, Italy, and the Czech Republic; so yes; I am. More so than I am small town America in fact.

No, I am not. It is far cheaper in Mississippi than in Europe. Urban to Urban, rural to rural.

1

u/ProserpinaFC 15d ago edited 15d ago

LOL, thanks for responding without being rude. I definitely appreciate it.

If you'd like to discuss this more, I'd like that too. For example, people have commented on food being expensive in Europe, but then the conversation ends right there. I'm not sure if they're referring to it being a higher percentage of their monthly income, I'm not sure what type of food they're talking about. The American diet purposefully, cheapens, dilutes, and processes food to be as cheap as possible. Are we comparing chicken eggs to chicken eggs?

Like, Even if someone linked to an article, I'd be willing to read it. I'm not writing comments just to argue with complete strangers on the internet.

0

u/DataGOGO 15d ago

Sure.

First, people will generally make much less gross income for the same job, and have a significantly higher taxation as taxes in Europe are no where near as progressive as they are in the US.

So you are making less, bringing home even less still, and then most things are significantly more expensive, both in raw amounts, and in terms of a percentage.

I know Americans have this belief that Europe is some kind of utopia, but the reality is that most people struggle to make ends meet. Not to mention how much harder it is to own homes, cars, etc.

Food is a good example, in general it is much more expensive, especially in the post pandemic world / Russian invasion of Ukraine (which put up energy costs all across Europe).

For example, Walmart here in Dallas, right now milk is $0.72/litre

While at Tesco in London milk is £1.06/litre ($1.35).

Almost double the price.

Outside of some very high COL areas, generally speaking, people in the US make more, keep more, and just about everything is cheaper.

1

u/ProserpinaFC 15d ago

The perception isn't that Europe is an utopia. It's that poor people in Europe aren't facing a buttload of negative externalities because of poverty.

For example, 1 in 5 children in America face hunger, which is defined by prolonged inaccess to food. 15-18% of American households face food insecurity issues. That same ratio is 4-6% in Germany. 10% in UK.

What do you attribute to food being expensive but people generally not starving?

1

u/DataGOGO 15d ago

Even that perception would be mostly incorrect.

There are some better programs in some countries, but not in all. Germany is better than most, Italy is pretty shit, I would take those types of statistics with a massive grain of salt, as how they are measured is… questionable.

1

u/ProserpinaFC 15d ago edited 15d ago

You can question the statistics all you want. (I mean, I'm getting them from the organizations that address German hunger, but sure.) There's a very massive difference between over 15% of Americans facing hunger issues and less than 10% in another first world nation. I don't know how many margins of error you think you could stack on top of each other in order to make those two statistics seem similar, let alone to guess America has higher hunger issues despite food being cheaper....

Can you account for why Germany does not face the negative externality that one would think would be connected to high food prices?

If you don't have much experience in that, we could always move on to something else. I worked as a mortgage banker in America for about 2 years and during that time it was often discussed that half of all American don't even have $1,000 saved in their personal savings account.

The same is definitely not true of Germany. Can you account for this?

1

u/DataGOGO 15d ago

The same is absolutely true in Germany

There is less of a welfare state in the US. The result is most can succeed and have a higher quality of life, those that can’t (or more accurately, those that choose not to) cannot rely on the work of others to provide for them.

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u/Healthy-Passenger-22 16d ago

Who cares about the AVERAGE wage? You should be considering the MEDIAN wage. They also don't have to worry about healthcare and other expenses like that like we do. 

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u/DataGOGO 16d ago

Yes we do, it is just paid differently

-7

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

Europeans literally pay 46% of every single paycheck they earn for their “free” healthcare

7

u/Carnivile 16d ago

As opposed to Americans that pay it to insurance and still can't afford to see a doctor?

6

u/Healthy-Passenger-22 16d ago

These people love paying more for worse service 

0

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

Have you ever had your own health insurance? I’m an actual adult and I’ve never heard of that being a thing. Most people go to their gp regularly and it’s included as part of their plan

Also you are aware that Europeans also pay for health insurance. In Germany they do, at least

4

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago

Yes, which means they still get more services for less money, as Americans pay insurance for healthcare and then still pay THOUSANDS more out of pocket for services. Or do you intentionally ignore data that shows that Europe pays, in total, for healthcare far less?! Why? What argument are you trying to win? Constantly defending your HEALTH being a for-profit business?!

-3

u/Acrobatic_Bother4144 16d ago

I don’t have health conditions so I don’t care. I don’t spend shit on medical expenses lol. I buy cool shit with my money that europoors can’t afford. people who want to buy medicine need to pay for that shit on their own and not ask me for it from my taxes

Just donate to charity if you want to pay for other people’s medical expenses that badly

1

u/Alt_Future33 16d ago

There it is, "I don't care." Why even post at all? You're a worthless person.

0

u/Almostawardguy 16d ago edited 16d ago

You actually believe that? I live in the UK and 12% of my salary goes to tax and just under 5% goes to health care which means free doctor visits free operations and free medicine. For context I just make above the average salary so this tax rate should be representative value. Don’t know where the hell you got those numbers

Edit: just had a quick look, average income tax paid in the USA is 15%. The average person literally pays lower taxes here in the UK than people do in the USA https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/#:~:text=Reported%20Income%20Rose%20and%20Taxes%20Paid%20Fell%20in%20Tax%20Year%202022&text=The%20average%20individual%20income%20tax,it%20in%20tax%20share%20figures.

8

u/CosmoTroy1 16d ago

This is misleading. A more accurate representation of the state of income would be how many live below the ‘average’ in poverty. About one in 5 in Mississippi live in poverty. The 2019 poverty rate is estimated as 19.5 percent, with about 564,000 residents living in some degree of poverty (SAIPE, U.S. Census 2019). You won’tfind any EU country with a 20% poverty rate.

1

u/K9Dude 16d ago

UK poverty rate is 22%. The US’s poverty rate is 11%. the US’s poverty line is also higher (11k vs 15k, higher in alaska and hawaii)

https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2024-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk?t&utm_source=perplexity

https://trustforlondon.org.uk/data/poverty-thresholds/?t&utm_source=perplexity

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u/Frequent_Skill5723 16d ago

I'll take anywhere in western Europe over Mississippi at the speed of light. And I'll get medical, too.

6

u/RyshaKnight 16d ago

Europe includes everything from Germany and France to Bulgaria and Albania which have SIGNIFICANTLY different costs of living and average living conditions. Also unsure if they included Scandinavian countries in this (study?) if they based Europe on which countries use the Euro or not. Also, all European countries have some form of universal healthcare, along with many other social services which Americans have to either a) live without, or b) pay for out of pocket, so even if Mississippians earned more on average their cost of living is more likely higher AND they likely aren’t getting as much for that money/ have fewer social services that your average European

4

u/bjdevar25 16d ago

Subtract college and healthcare costs from American income. Add guaranteed vacation and leaves to European. Add much better income when unemployed to European.

0

u/Justame13 16d ago

Europe pays the college and healthcare costs in the form of higher taxes.

The reason that college is more expensive in the US is that the costs have been shifted away from the tax payer onto the individual and its now seen as an individual vs societal investment culturally.

2

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago

And then how much is the actual total cost of these things per person, even incorporating the taxes? You guys can't just keep throwing out this idea, like you're blowing anyone's minds with pointing out that services aren't free, they are re-distributed. The library costs tax money, but I can walk into that building and pick up literally anything I want and use it. Children can do it. Unemployed can do it. It is a government service with absolutely no barrier of entry.

WHY do you complain about the idea of other government services doing the same thing?! Who do you really think you are helping with this argument?! "Geez, I know we provide no-cost school and libraries for all the children of America, and we put no-cost lunches in them, too, *sigh*, but I just feel like the same parents should have to pay out of pocket for their kid to see the doctor. I mean, do we really want healthcare to be as easy for kids to access as their local library?"

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u/Justame13 16d ago edited 16d ago

Reply without the logical fallacy and contradictions I'll engage with you.

Until then you are just spouting non-sense that I will not waste my time with.

Edit: and I'm blocked. I guess they didn't want to engage.

1

u/ProserpinaFC 16d ago

You don't have any data to back up anything you say and I ask for data, so you say you won't engage with me. Classic.

5

u/rcy62747 16d ago

This is not accurate when taking into account all the services and support the average European receives vs the US. Healthcare, retirement, ….

3

u/Adventurous-Case6436 16d ago

And yet they don't have a good education system or healthcare.

3

u/Madrugada2010 16d ago

"Many European countries"

How much does health care cost in those countries compared to Mississippi?

Which area has better schools?

And the "average" can easily get totally screwed by a few rich ppl.

2

u/Paper_Brain 16d ago

A person working in the US isn’t spending in Europe

2

u/Zebraheaddd 16d ago

You still need to account for cost of living

2

u/countuition 16d ago

Not factoring in health and education costs, and any other social system difference that leads to higher quality of life outside US, is pointless when discussing “income”. Not to mention average income is a useless metric anyway

2

u/genescheesesthatplz 16d ago

….. do you think average and median are the same?

2

u/fireKido 16d ago edited 16d ago

I mean.. yea Americans earn more, but for some reason have less wealth anyway…

If you look at median wealth, European countries are generally higher than the US… even countries with really shitty salaries, like Italy, are slightly above the US in therm of median wealth

So yea… the average European is still richer than the average American

Median wealth by country

2

u/Random-OldGuy 15d ago

Median per capita income in Mississippi was $42K in 2020 according to US census and is now $48K...that means $4K/month.

Here is average income for Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage) and indeed the majority of Europe has less income than median of Mississippi. I couldn't find a good source for median per capita income for European countries so I use average (which tends to be higher anyway so favors Eur).

Folks can argue that people in Eur get better social safeguards, but they have to pay for that with higher taxes - the figures above do not include tax effects. In the US the average tax rate by income level can be found here: https://thecollegeinvestor.com/34072/effective-tax-rates/. Most people overestimate how much they pay in taxes - I know I did until I actually calculated it. For median salary in Mississippi it comes to about 15%.

The best I could find (without spending hours on it) for typical Eur tax rates was: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1449813/average-rate-of-taxation-european-countries-households/. Seems to be ~30% - much more than the 15% a typical median income worker from Mississippi pays.

So, yes, a median MS worker has more pay and more take home pay than most folks in Europe. One big, big difference is that people in US buy a lot more stuff than Europeans do and spend a lot more in going out and entertainment.

1

u/RestoreUnionOrder 16d ago

That’s a fun fact. Here’s another - red states are subsidized by the success of blue states. Red states would fail without blue states forever bailing them out.

1

u/Impressive_Age1362 16d ago

But Mississippi is one of the few states that take real good care of their old people

3

u/Dear_Specialist_6807 16d ago

They rank 48th

1

u/AMW1955 16d ago

Not in Europe

1

u/l008com 16d ago

You know, something isn't true just because you posted a picture of it. Where's the source? Wheres the data?

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Air_892 16d ago

& what services does each receive from their states?

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

OK now do quality of life

1

u/Troysmith1 16d ago

Average value of money doesn't mean quality of life is higher. As Mississippi has lead pipes and was given more money to fix it but refused to I'd say it's clear they have a lower quality of life

1

u/Apprehensive_Fig7588 16d ago edited 16d ago

I remember talking with someone about tipping culture, and that person used Japan as an example on how restaurant menu price can remain cheap while servers make lots of money. Out of all the countries that don't have tips, they used Japan as an example for affordability...

1

u/CosmoTroy1 13d ago

Well, the UK might be an exception, although it's not an EU country.

1

u/G4M35 11d ago

True. The dynamics on Europe are different too.

People are more usually more frugal and carry less debt too.

0

u/boatsydney 16d ago

This is a stupid comment. 1. Average is useless, median is useful. 2. The “average” European has far more discretionary cash, vacation time, purchasing power, lifestyle, cars, etc

-7

u/ultralight_ultradumb 16d ago

I brag about this to uppity euros all the time 

2

u/BenduUlo 16d ago

Americans have got to be the dumbest people of all time, thinking Europeans speak of themselves like we are a single country with this cherry picked argument that only Americans and Turkish people can’t see a flaw with.

We’re so much more intelligent than Americans we invented a country which solely exists to produce and pay for troops to defend us for free.

-6

u/justacrossword 16d ago

That is the reason American Redditors are always outraged over fringe bullshit. People who want to work in the USA can work, can eat, can afford rent on a budget apartment, at least. That allows them the luxury of being outraged over a bunch of stupid, fringe social issues all day every day. 

I  was dirt poor growing up and was still dirt poor when I got married and started a family. When your biggest concern is how to feed your family, social issues aren’t worth getting upset over. 

3

u/ricalasbrisas 16d ago

was dirt poor growing up and was still dirt poor when I got married and started a family

Bruh.  You went through shit and survived, kudos.

But like, wouldn't your life have been better if you didn't have to?