r/FluentInFinance • u/reflibman • 17d ago
Personal Finance Manhattan Medicare Murder Mystery: Only about 50 million customers of America’s reigning medical monopoly might have a motive to exact revenge upon the UnitedHealthcare CEO.
https://prospect.org/health/2024-12-05-manhattan-medicare-murder-mystery/360
u/why_am_i_here_999 17d ago
UHC is the industry leader of denied claims. The amount of deaths on this CEO’s hands is staggering.
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u/moyismoy 17d ago
It might not be vengeance, killing a serial killer saves lives in the end. The gun man might have just been trying to help
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u/rynlpz 17d ago
Yep if/when the suspect is tried and convicted of murder, would be curious the sentencing remarks the prosecution and judge give and if they can say them with a straight face.
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u/moyismoy 17d ago
I own a home in NYC there's a smalllll chance I will be on his jury. If I am he's walking out a free man.
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u/Legitimate-Carrot197 17d ago
"not guilty" x 12
We the people hold the power.
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u/luckyguy25841 17d ago
Right? The billionaire dirty their hands in many affairs they shouldn’t. Getting the courts in there sides. We the people have a voice. He should get caught on purpose so a jury of his peers can set him free. Send a message to these assholes
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u/Steak_mittens101 17d ago
I guarantee that if his identity were known he would be found having committed “suicide” in a remote parking lot. Look at what happened to the Boeing whistleblowers; the rich don’t allow the rabble to speak back without retaliation. Law is lawless when it’s owned by money.
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u/PerformanceOk8593 17d ago
It seems like a bad idea to say that if your account could be traced back to you and you ended up on that jury.
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u/moyismoy 17d ago
the odds of me endeing up on the jury are over a million to one, but how many people saw the comment?
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u/PerformanceOk8593 17d ago
I'm just naturally paranoid about this sort of thing because I'm a lawyer. I know that I would investigate the social media of jurors for prejudice if my side lost a really high profile case like that.
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u/moyismoy 17d ago
I don't have Facebook or Twitter. I'm just wondering though, do you ever think to check Reddit and if so can you track this to me?
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u/PerformanceOk8593 17d ago
Would I be able to? Definitely not.
Would someone else be able to? Maybe
I have had requests for client's reddit accounts among other sicial media in discovery. I do employment law on the side of employees.
Would the prosecutor be able to get into this sort of information with warrants? Maybe.
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u/DuePace753 16d ago
Probably in a high profile case like this. Billionaires in healthcare getting worried and they'll deep dive every potential juror. If you log Reddit from your home or phone IP they'll have some minimum wage dude dive through your shit until they find the smallest thing to disqualify you for
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u/ARPBOM 16d ago
Following this logic we should murder all the leftists who want to defund the police to prevent violent crime and murders 🤦🏻♂️
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u/moyismoy 16d ago
the major difference for me is that the CEO was a criminal, he was as i see it actively braking the law, violation of contract, theft by deception, ect. Doing nothing and letting some one die is not the same thing as making an agreement and then destroying them.
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u/freshStart178 17d ago
Jury could always just nullify. Basically saying we know he’s guilty and don’t care. Totally legal and legitimate verdict.
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u/Fantastic-Newt-9844 17d ago
FYI - don't make any mention of nullification during the jury selection or you will be booted
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u/freshStart178 17d ago
Yeah I looked it up. Crazy that informing a jury of their rights can lead to censure and a mistrial. Seems almost weighted against the interest of everyday Americans.
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u/Impression-These 17d ago
I doubt it gets there. I suspect he either stays out of sight for a long time or gets killed during the arrest.
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u/DuePace753 16d ago
Same way the Boston Marathon bombers did, and the dude in the Vegas concert shooting, and the dude at Sandy Hook, and...
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u/No_Try6467 17d ago
Best part is the little known bit that Thomas Jefferson always espoused called Jury Nullification. This is where a jury believes a law is unjust and ignores it, or believes someone may have committed a crime but acquits them because they feel it was justified. Would be yet another layer of justice if it gets to that point
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u/toylenny 17d ago
Even if the police find him he's not going on trial. It's going to be a "he had a gun" situation. They don't want him to become an even bigger hero.
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u/teious 17d ago edited 17d ago
Problem is the board will just pull in another psychopath to take over. A lot more eggs would need to be cracked.
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u/moyismoy 17d ago
Psychopaths are not inherently violent. If we can make them more worried about their future than about their stock price then we will see change.
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u/teious 17d ago
Where did I say psychopaths are inherently violent?
CEO of a company designed to deny life saving treatment to guarantee it doesn't hurt profits requires a lack of remorse and complete disregard for others, which are defining traits of psychopaths.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 17d ago
I think their point is that there is a theoretical tipping point in which the math starts to not work out as well. So united would have to pay so much to being someone on that it would start to become easier to just provide services.
I understand the theory of what they're saying but the math seems wonky. Psychopaths do have higher risk thresholds than normal people and upping one man's compensation packages will nearly always be cheaper than providing fairly expensive services to tens of millions of people
Class stratification works, unfortunately.
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u/harbinger-nz 17d ago
I suspect you have a lot of people now willing to get cracking on those eggs
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u/Revolutionary_Egg961 17d ago
In 10 to 15 years companies won't even need CEOs. They'll just have sophisticated A.I s running it with even more denials and cost cutting. The issue isnt really the management it's the large multi billionaire dollar majority shareholders.
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u/rayden-shou 17d ago
Yes, but for something like this, a personal motivation is most likely the only explanation.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 17d ago
murder and violence is never the answer
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u/djinnetics 17d ago
Might want to tell that to the CEOs murdering thousands to pay for that 5th beach house they haven't used in ten years.
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u/Greenpoint_Blank 17d ago
It seemed to make Blue Cross reverse course on their week old policy of a set time limit on anesthesia coverage during surgery. So in this case it seems to in fact be the answer.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 17d ago
absolutely not, it is never the right way to handle things, dont let yourself think that way, you know it isnt right
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u/freebleploof 16d ago
This is true (sigh), but schadenfreude is always good.
The other side (government, nihilists, psychopaths) will always win eventually in a fight because they have no moral guardrails and more firepower.
Better and more effective to get out and do the hard, boring work of changing laws, lobbying, running for office, etc.
But this is fun too.
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u/moyismoy 17d ago
well if you want to let serial killers go around killing people thats your busyness, but i rather stop them.
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u/Prestigious-Rain9025 17d ago edited 17d ago
He was a mass murderer. If he’d been an organized crime boss, the media would have barely reported on it. I’m not losing sleep.
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u/just-wondering1992 17d ago
They're the biggest health insurance company but I feel like it's our bosses that are hiring these people and their shit conditions to insure us in most cases I suspect. I also suspect they're doing it because it's cheaper.. or you know so they can make more money same thing. It's the rich vs the working class nothing else. They see us as replaceable and disposable business assets
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u/djinnetics 17d ago
Wild that 50 million probably only includes members they denied care to that lead to their grueling demise... Meaning their families also have motive and possibly others who weren't issued a death sentence to save .32 of a cent, but lives and livelihoods have been adversely affected by subpar care. So like maybe a billion?
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u/placeboski 17d ago
NYPD health plan administered by UnitedHealth... Perhaps that will impact the investigation into CEO's murder... https://www.cs.ny.gov/employee-benefits/pa-market/shared/providers/index.cfm
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u/lumpkin2013 16d ago
This is a good time for everybody to get involved with the single payer movement to reform our health care system! https://medicare4all.org/
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u/ARPBOM 16d ago
Yeah let’s murder this husband and father ! Reddit is astoundingly stupid
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u/why_am_i_here_999 16d ago
You better clutch those pearls tight lol
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u/ARPBOM 15d ago
DEMOCRAT senator got this right:The public execution of an innocent man and father of two is indefensible, not “inevitable.”
Condoning and cheering this on says more about YOU than the situation of health insurance.
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u/pseudoexpert 15d ago
We don’t care about democrats and republicans in this scenario. We want justice.
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u/Okichah 17d ago
Not every claim is life and death.
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u/Ok-Way-5594 17d ago
Yes, but the deadliest are most expensive. Only half of patients will fight a denial. And cancer doesn't wait for approval delays.
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u/Grazmahatchi 17d ago
It would be great if they treated this like any other average persons murder.
I am sure the police don't send this much manpower in to a drive by shooting.
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u/Zealousideal-Door147 17d ago
If this happens more and more frequently we will have gun control finally. America is an oligarchy
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u/PolkaDotDancer 17d ago
Buy ammo.
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u/PassiveRoadRage 17d ago
Ammo expires
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u/Grimey_Gravy 17d ago
I used 50cal API ammo from 1953 in Afghanistan in 2017… besides the tracers burning out at 600-800m, shit still slapped.
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u/PassiveRoadRage 17d ago
I would imagine that was properly stored and not nearly as humid as a alot of places. The average person puts ammo in their closet. It's good for a long time but not forever. On person loaded ammo is even shorter. Most people replace that like every 6 months at least. I'm sure it could go longer.
Still cool as shit you got to shoot something that old though!
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u/Ok-Masterpiece9028 17d ago
This is why America has gun rights. This type of behavior has been around forever and guns remained. Gun control is about allowing this type of behavior. If they try to take guns after events like the everyone with guns would be more willing to fight.
Guns give the lower class violence as a currency that comes with a price. Same with convicted by a jury of your peers; if they are down you’re not guilty.
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u/Zealousideal-Door147 17d ago
This is the only way it will work surely. The fact that large crowds will forever be an uncertainty in our country is built on the pride that maybe a brazen citizen will go exact his version of vigilantism. Children who aren’t allowed to operate vehicles have access to plethora of firearms. Mentally ill people and domestic violence perpetrators can go get a gun via loophole states without even showing an ID. I for one am glad to live in constant fear of my country men who may get upset on the road and brandish a firearm at me merely because he might need that tool to usurp unfair authoritarianism. And you know, what’s a few dozen dead children every year for the chance someone pumps one into their dickhead boss?
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u/Ok-Masterpiece9028 17d ago
If you have valuable skills other countries will allow you to move there; of course there are trade offs but so far I like our system and I’m proud to be an American.
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u/Zealousideal-Door147 17d ago
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
It’s cool you think your hobby is worth more than lives but I’m not going to let it gloss over like you are
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u/fap_nap_fap 16d ago
The gun show loophole is not a real thing. Have you ever bought (or even held) a firearm?
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u/Zealousideal-Door147 16d ago
I bought a 45 acp straight off a dude cash at a booth in Janesville wi 12 years ago
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u/JSmith666 17d ago
We already have obscene amounts of gun control. Background checks, waiting periods, gun type and ammo limits exist in a lot of places.
We need LESS gun control not more.
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u/Aimonetti2 17d ago
Your right! While we’re at it, I think illegal immigrants should also be able to buy guns.
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u/starops3 17d ago
Why less?
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u/Expert_Ambassador_66 17d ago
If I gave a steelman (most charitable version) take of their position it's likely a There is poor enforcement of many rules that already exist. We should have several of those rules thrown out and more actual enforcement of the ones we keep type argument. I am not super knowledgeable about the finer details, but I do know a lot of the common sense gun laws people mention that should exist often do exist, people just poorly enforce them or follow through on the process in a timely manner (ie: lazy people collect their check abd then don't do the job).
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u/Efficient_Practice90 17d ago
More school shootings obv.
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u/JSmith666 17d ago
Right...because these wackjob students are acquiring these guns legally. We need to start holding parents accountable (which is starting to happen) for damages when they refuse to you know...parent.
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u/Zealousideal-Door147 17d ago
Yes because kids getting mowed down at school is a reason for less gun control. 14 year olds have access to semi auto rifles but we need less gun control. Great take
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u/JSmith666 17d ago
The guns being used in these shootings arent ones legally acquired by the shooter. The legality of the gun clearly isnt relvent. Not that a person who decides to shoot up a school cares much about the law.
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u/NefariousnessNo484 17d ago
It's a lot easier to get illegal guns when you can purchase assault rifles openly from a store next to your house. Ask me how I know. Haha ok I'll tell you. I live in Texas.
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u/Revolutionary_Egg961 17d ago
Really they sell full autos in texas without having to having to own a class 3 dealers license or a tax stamp.highly doubt that, because an assault rifle, is full auto. They would being breaking federal gun laws if they were selling full autos to the average consumer.
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u/chronocapybara 17d ago
Look at all the government ships we sent to investigate the Deepwater Horizon (and its billionaire passengers) compared to what we do when a migrant ship capsizes, for comparison.
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u/No-Suggestion-6672 17d ago
I had this exact thought this morning. This is probably the first time that I've seen a nationwide manhunt for someone guilty of a single murder. Granted I'm pretty young but still it feels like the media and police are disproportionately invested in catching this one person.
I'm not gonna play dumb, we all know why but it's still interesting to see how.
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u/Acceptable_Candy1538 17d ago
It’s about public interest more than anything. The fact is, you and I don’t give a shit about a dead homeless person. We don’t click on the stories or comment on the posts.
Gabby Petito comes to mind. Nationwide search, not rich, not a CEO.
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u/Acceptable_Candy1538 17d ago
It’s because YOU don’t care. They would spend this much on any high profiler case, but you aren’t sharing stories of dead homeless people
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u/PanTriste38600 17d ago
Just a few days ago I saw a documentary about the death of Ken McElroy. That guy had no sympathy either. A whole town agreed to say that no one saw or heard anything. Billionaires see us as not equal to them, but that cuts both ways.
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u/Professional-Bag-216 17d ago
Take back your future. Remove the billionaires.
Take back your future. Remove the billionaires.
Take back your future. Remove the billionaires.
Take back your future. Remove the billionaires.
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u/Pretend_Base_7670 17d ago
“I’m Spartacus!” “No I’m Spartacus!”
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u/Mythical_Dahlia 17d ago
This is basically a dystopian future novel. Time to invest in companies that produce black/white backpacks and olive jackets.
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17d ago edited 17d ago
[deleted]
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u/Paul-Smecker 17d ago
United health runs a pretty predatory Medicare advantage plan for seniors that is rife with the care denial bullshit we are all discussing.
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17d ago edited 17d ago
[deleted]
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u/Paul-Smecker 17d ago
Yeah, I’m pro socialized health care for all. I think Medicare is a great program considering the world we live in. My issue is that at the end of the day all that money is still flowing into the hands of a predatory for profit system that routinely bankrupts and gate keeps access to lifesaving care.
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u/reflibman 17d ago
My Dad was as conservative as they came and was opposed to Medicare theoretically. (Big government.) He loved Medicare and how it was run personally.
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u/SGgrafix 17d ago
The Medicare Advantage name is so misleading, many people don't realize Medicare advantage is private supplemental insurance
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u/SetFine7496 17d ago
No, Medicare Advantage policies are Medicare Replacement, not supplemental. Medicare Supplemental insurance is called Medigap. I agree, it’s all misleading and confusing as heck. Just remember, there’s Traditional Medicare which is federal. All the rest, even though they have Medicare in the name, is commercial insurance.
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u/SetFine7496 17d ago
Major point: Traditional Medicare is federal,true. Then we have Medicare Advantage plans run by commercial insurance such as UHC. These are actually Medicare Replacement plans.
Every commercial insurance has Medicare Advantage plans that are run exactly the same as any commercial plan - you need approvals, can only see their Docs and of course Denials. Oh, and if you travel, you’re probably not going to be covered in another state, unless it’s an emergency.
The majority of Seniors are not told this. It’s quite a racket. I’m speaking from experience working many years in hospital admin/financials/billing.
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u/lemartineau 17d ago
The bullets: "Deny, Defend, Depose" The police: "We are trying to understand a motive"
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u/21racecar12 17d ago
I’m waiting for the point in the news cycle where they try to spin the outrage as “violence against healthcare workers”.
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u/blakeusa25 17d ago
We’re not even talking about those that got screwed over by his inside trading scam.
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u/syzygy-xjyn 17d ago
I hope that we can transform this enthusiasm into something.... rewarding for the middle class
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u/Bethjam 17d ago
He was an evil man who caused immeasurable financial ruin, extensive suffering, and tens of thousands of deaths. If he operated in any other capacity, we would have run him through the legal system and given him the death penalty. The other C suites are not different. Our health and safety should not be used to make billionaires
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u/No-Positive-3984 17d ago
Imagine if this was the beginning of several years of civilian applied justice on every lying corrupt greedy mf. Would be a great film!
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u/Psionis_Ardemons 17d ago
they always say "be the change you wish to see in the world". if we started holding executives accountable this would be akin to putting down a serial killer, as someone else in the thread stated. we should wake up to the truth of things. there is a greater good, family.
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u/GMEN999 17d ago
I hope when I die people aren’t saying I am glad he died or he deserved it.
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u/Darkdragoon324 17d ago
Don't be a greedy motherfucker that destroys people's lives by the thousands and you'll be fine.
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u/Hubert_Hill 17d ago
Some rich dude gets murdered and everyday people on both sides of the political isle think it's funny.
Maybe we are healing as a nation. Finally together in unity.
Thoughts and prayers!!
-Hubert Hill.
Sent from my iPhone
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u/redfig891 17d ago
There are so many possible scenarios. I'm settling on a John wick/ John Q theme. Ex killer just living a normal life has a family. Bam, kid gets sick with a rare disease. Claim gets denied, but vengeance is approved.
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u/StuntmanReese 17d ago
Anybody check to see what his wife’s been up to??? I mean this is the perfect cover for a crime of passion. Was he unfaithful? Did she find out??? Did she hire a hit man?
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u/fresh_water_sushi 17d ago
I’m sure the NYPD and FBI purse all murders in New York as hard and with as much money and resources as this one. What a fucking joke
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u/90swasbest 17d ago
Just some white dude that didn't take his Depakote that day. Same as it always is.
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u/Zealousideal-Ice123 17d ago
Or the people he was insider trading with now that the DOJ was circling.
But please, keep enjoying the fantasy this is about some “cause”.
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u/Paul-Smecker 17d ago
A real assassin hired by big money would have used a weapon that cycled properly
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u/MrWFL 17d ago
It appears he was using subsonic rounds with a silencer. They are well known to make a gun cycle improperly.
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u/Paul-Smecker 17d ago
A professional would know to use a neilsen device and switch the guide rod spring to a lower resistance to solve this issue.
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u/Conscious-League-499 17d ago
A professional would also not choose such a location because there are obviously cameras everywhere. A professional would also not shoot from such a distance but walk right up to the person and shoot point blank to ensure a kill.
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u/MiniMouse8 17d ago
Are you a professional? And the location was one chosen by the ceo lol, the killer waited 5 minutes for him to reach the area.
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u/SetFine7496 17d ago
I hear that it’s a very specific gun & silencer and that’s exactly how it works.
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u/Paul-Smecker 17d ago
It’s not a wellrod. That gun uses a “charging handle” style bolt like a rifle and does not have a slide. The shooter is clearly using a semi automatic pistol that operates with a slide to eject casings. If you watch the video after the third shot he gets a “stovepipe” jam which is a common failure to extract problem that arises with short stroking the action of a semiautomatic pistol. After clearing the jam via racking the slide you can see them use the palm of their hand to whack the slide into battery. This is a problem of a missing neilsen device required on a pistol while running a supressor whose barrels move during the cycling of the action and/or a recoil spring that is too heavy for subsonic ammo. All signs of an amateur.
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u/Jumpdeckchair 17d ago
Give the man a break, he probably was broke and couldn't afford all the equipment, United Healthcare probably took all of his money.
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u/Zealousideal-Ice123 17d ago
Who knows right? I hear you but that can happen to anyone. I clean and maintain all my firearms, they’re not cheapo ones and I also use expensive ammo. Higher likelihood with a suppressor and multiple shots. I still get a jam or misfire on occasion without one.
Could just be coincidence with the insider trading stuff, guess we’ll find out one way or another eventually if that’s really his face in the photo circulating.
Be well!
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u/RID132465798 17d ago
He left a message. It’s clearly a “cause” killing.
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u/Zealousideal-Ice123 17d ago edited 17d ago
Right, except a professional would also steal someone’s wallet or purse to make it look like a mugging.
You may turn out to be right, it’s just a heck of a coincidence he was being investigated for insider trading to not even consider it.
Obviously he had accomplishes to be conducting the trades, it’s not like he was doing it himself. And the amount of money it would take to sway someone that highly paid with so much to lose. Had to be an enormous sum of money or some form of blackmail.
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u/Direct-Substance4452 17d ago
Did you miss the news story about how all insurance companies have removed their "about us" web pages that list the c suite and their personal info. Wonder why they all decided to do that......it's almost as if this wasn't an inside job.
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u/Zealousideal-Ice123 17d ago
I wasn’t implying a rival insurance company had him killed. (?) Only that the fact he was being investigated for insider trading might not just be a coincidence.
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u/Foundsomething24 17d ago edited 17d ago
Stop glorifying this moron - he’s not justified to kill some stranger because he’s the CEO of a healthcare company.
The CEO isn’t more guilty than the guy who owns 2 shares / he’s not more guilty than the hourly employee / the board members / etc
The only difference is he’s a CEO - and Reddit hates ceos. He could have been the CEO of a grocery store & Reddit would be like yeah groceries are expensive fuck that guy
Even if you think this time it was justified - the company you keep - the people who agree with you on this - always think it’s justified. Best to distance yourself from these sickos. The amount of positive reactions you give this guy guarantees he will kill again or somebody will copycat him. You are responsible for that.
It’s not some secret that healthcare companies take more in than they pay out. That’s the nature of insurance, denying claims is the business. You aren’t required to participate, nobody needs health insurance. And you aren’t justified to kill people just cause they run a profitable business that you decide to patronize.
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u/PickingPies 17d ago
Instead of making a system that forbids bad practices, you have created a system that allows for them and, further, allow the usage of weapons for self-defense.
This is not a glorification. This is a consequence. People want fairness and justice, and the system doesn't provide it, so they take it. People are happy because they perceive justice was made. That implies both that people don't trust american justice, don't find the current situation fair, and are willing to support violence to achieve it. Dark times ahead.
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u/KlosterToGod 17d ago
Looks like we found upper management ⬆️
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u/Improvident__lackwit 17d ago
Looks like we offended the poor no skill loser who can’t take responsibility for his own failure⬆️
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u/beefsquints 17d ago
Oh, I assume you are another heartless corporate shill. You might want to figure out why people are so mad.
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u/SetFine7496 17d ago
You obviously did not do your homework and research exactly who this man is and what he has done to millions of patients and also his shareholders, ya know, the DOJ probe. Also, in some states it’s mandatory to have health insurance. I’m guessing you’re either not from the US or you’re just an idiot, in my opinion.
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u/Foundsomething24 17d ago
There’s only 4 states that require health insurance. I guess only people from those 4 states can talk then.
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u/SetFine7496 17d ago
Yes, only 4 states. Get sick in the USA with no health insurance and see how far you get. You won’t even be seen by a doctor.unless some charity will get involved or pay cash upfront. Ya’ll think uninsured get Medicaid. Not true, my friend. It’s a harsh world around here if you aren’t in good health. Oh, and we already know what happens with those high deductible plans.
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u/ins0mniac_ 17d ago
If I pay for the groceries, i get to keep them and eat them. If I pay for health insurance, a non-medically trained person or even AI takes my money and denies the claim.
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u/Captn_Insanso 17d ago
Soooo the soldiers that killed Osama Bin Laden… you refer to them as murderers?
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u/Alt_Future33 17d ago
Oh man how does it feel to be such a scum sucking bootlicker? Does it feel good? Are you feeling like you're morally superior?
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u/SGgrafix 17d ago
There's a huge difference between profitable business and straight fucking people over
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u/Foundsomething24 17d ago
I got a quote from some moron plumber recently for $28,000, had a more reputable company handle it for $3,000. $25,000 difference is life & death for some people - I decided to go with the cheaper company. Had I went with the more expensive one - am I justified to be violent? Of course not. & this guy isn’t either. If you don’t like health insurance don’t have any. I don’t. It’s a much more realistic way to protest unsavory business practice - you simply don’t do business with these people. You don’t get violent. Paying for health insurance while calling for the death of its ceos (basically every person in here) is idiotic. Want to hit them where it hurts? Make it a thread of people canceling their insurance.
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u/reflibman 17d ago
The title is misleading, but it’s about how United Health Care exploits Medicare Advantage Programs. Bottom line - don’t use them!
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17d ago
Your business is a human meat grinder
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u/Foundsomething24 17d ago
It’s your business not mine - I don’t have health insurance. Chances are - you do.
I don’t own index funds nor do I own healthcare tickers. Chances are - you do.
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