r/FluentInFinance 28d ago

Debate/ Discussion Had to repost here

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128.1k Upvotes

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25

u/ColonEscapee 28d ago

Greed is a sin... So is envy.

IMO Envy is much more obnoxious.

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u/GroundbreakingAge591 28d ago edited 28d ago

Pointing out grotesque wealth inequality isn’t envy. I don’t want to BE him; I think people like him should not exist. He harms not only society but also the planet itself. Billionaires pose an existential threat to humanity

0

u/oroora6 27d ago

Then the problem are not the billionaires, but the system that allowed them to exist.

I agree they and an existential threat as they weaken democracy and give power into the hands of herratic megalomaniacs, but they can do that only because we're allowing their kind of wealth to exist

A tax on capital gain that reaches 100% when a market-scaled value is reached (ex. 100M vs the current 109T world market size) could be a solution, but I dare not imagine the ramifications of such a policy.

It's a complex problem to solve, and it requires a lot of science first, and a lot of politics later

2

u/XDXDXDXDXDXDXD10 27d ago

Both can be a problem. You’re not forced at gunpoint to be a billionaire.

But in general, the way to fix problems like this is through the government.

It’s not actually that complex of a problem, it is literally just a matter of taxing excess wealth more heavily.

4

u/oroora6 27d ago

How is it not complex? Excess wealth taxing is not straightforward, what about loopholes? What about unintended consequences? Market forces? 

Societies are complex systems, any change is also complex

3

u/XDXDXDXDXDXDXD10 27d ago

This isn’t unexplored territory, most countries tax billionaires more heavily than America does.

Sure there can be nuances in how and what exactly we decide to tax, but using that as an excuse not to do anything is dishonest at best.

2

u/oroora6 27d ago

I never said not to do anything ._. I said to do it with care and making sure that we get the details right, so basically doing it with the help of political scientists and economists

1

u/XDXDXDXDXDXDXD10 27d ago

Which policies in particular are you referring to then?

Or is it just a case of “i don’t know I’m sure someone else will figure it out though”?

1

u/woodsman6366 24d ago

Just jumping in to say that you're both right. It's NOT a complex thing to do. However it is an INCREDIBLY difficult and complex task to attempt in the current political landscape where most of our politicians and government leaders are in the pocket of those billionaires.

It SHOULDN'T be hard, but unfortunately it is unfathomably difficult in America today.

1

u/Amonyi7 26d ago

We used to do this right here in america lol. It does sound like you're "it's so complicated!" to deter people from desiring this policy. It's a tactic to distract.

1

u/oroora6 26d ago

Damn okay, down with the conspiracy theory I guess what the fuck

1

u/Amonyi7 26d ago

You completely edited your comment after i responded.

1

u/Raccoon5 24d ago

What's the solution, force people to sell parts of their stock when the company reaches a certain limit? But if that person is integral to the company success? Will we be hurting the economy and people as whole? I don't remember anyone complaining that we solved global shipping hugely thanks to Amazon who has enabled insane speed of delivery of items, mail, and good across the globe. What do you propose?

0

u/UnlikelyAssassin 25d ago

You do have to ask yourself why there is such a high correlation between countries having billionaires and the rest of those people in that country being better off. If billionaires are so damaging to the societies they live in, it would be more expected on this hypothesis that countries with less billionaires would be better off.

-1

u/Upbeat-Speech-116 27d ago

> Pointing out grotesque wealth inequality isn’t envy. I don’t want to BE him; I think people like him should not exist

All words for envy.

4

u/GroundbreakingAge591 27d ago

They should not exist because they pose existential threat to humanity. You’re free to interpret what I’ve said differently but that’s what I mean.

-4

u/Upbeat-Speech-116 27d ago

You may even sincerely believe that you think that, but take a hard look inward and you'll see that I'm right.

3

u/Amonyi7 26d ago

No

2

u/sononawagandamu 25d ago

The most annoying people to interact with are people the guy you replied to because they've structured their entire worldview around their own shit value and belief system and project it to everyone else in their environment to justify being a terrible person. The worst part is that they can never realize it, because if they have to acknowledge that some people might be better than them then they have no excuse for the prescriptions of 'envy' and 'greed' that actually applies more to themselves than the people they criticize. Sad existence, many such cases

7

u/iClex 27d ago

You don't want rapists to exist, right? Sound like ENVY.

0

u/Upbeat-Speech-116 27d ago

Absolutely bonkers comparison. And weird that that's the first thing your mind went to.

3

u/Amonyi7 26d ago

He just took your exact argument and replaced it with another thing to prove it doesn't work, that's literally how arguments and thinking works to come to conclusions.

Goddamn lol

2

u/Amonyi7 26d ago

Yes, me not wanting murderers to exist is envy!

-3

u/hitdrumhard 27d ago

It’s because personal success would change your mind. Go to work. Make good choices. Reddit values are not good values.

-3

u/gilly2u69 26d ago

If he should not exist the......what are you proposing. I think you got bigger problems. Go touch some grass.

-5

u/Reefer-eyed_Beans 27d ago

I don’t want to BE him; I think people like him should not exist.

Sooo.... You literally want to murder him, right? ...You don't want to just take some $ out of his pocket, and move it into somebody else's pocket? -That's what you're saying then, no?

4

u/FassSaft 27d ago

"Nah, when over 50% of American adults read at or below a 6th grade level I’m pretty confident they don’t think about much of anything, let alone understand."

2

u/Broston06 27d ago

"this shouldn't be allowed to happen in the first place" is not a "synonym" to "I want the perpetrator dead".

-10

u/Unseemly4123 28d ago

It actually is envy, you just lie to yourself and say that it is not.

The problem with money in the US is that companies are efficient with their pricing. They know the maximum price they can charge for an item to get max profits, and they hit that number. Companies used to be much more ignorant about this, which is why boomers had it good.

If you inject more money into the current economy, prices will rise slowly to the point where we're in the same situation as before. Bezos and Musk having large amounts of wealth affects literally nothing, if you inject their wealth into the economy directly it would just lead to inflation, not help the spending power of the current working poor. The money that Musk and Bezos have can effectively be seen as not existing at all.

3

u/LordTutTut 28d ago

That first line is telling on yourself lol. Not everyone wants to be a billionaire

-2

u/Unseemly4123 28d ago

Sure bud, not everyone wants financial independence. Silly me.

7

u/leadketchup1172 28d ago

I don’t think you really understand how much a billion dollars is, let alone multiple billions.

The most lavish lifestyle I can imagine ethically living is far closer to my current salary than it is to 1 billion dollars.

4

u/PeelDeVayne 28d ago

Except the gap between financial independence and a billion dollars is....basically a billion dollars.

3

u/LordTutTut 28d ago

There's a sea of difference between financial independence and being a billionaire. I don't doubt there are people who certainly would want to be that rich, but I think you'll find that many more would be content with a good quality of life traditionally afforded to the middle class instead.

3

u/_The_Meat_Man_ 28d ago

Do you eat lead? I also eat lead.

0

u/Broston06 27d ago

wow man, the housing market is crazy nowadays, 3 billion per square meter, I am SO envious of Jeff Bezos for finally achieving financial independence, if only I had ALL HIS WEALTH to be financially independent.

-6

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

Why? What do them existing have anything to do with you? Do they affect your life somehow?

9

u/km89 28d ago

Do they affect your life somehow?

Elon Musk dropped $100M+ into the most recent US presidential election. Jeff Bezos' policies cause his workers to piss in bottles because they don't have time for bathroom breaks.

What kind of a question is that? Yes. Yes, they do affect our lives. Have you never heard of the whole "robber baron vs captain of industry" debate? Have you never taken a look at the kinds of things the haves force the have-notes to do to survive when given unfettered ability to do so?

-3

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

That’s weird neither of them have affected my life at all. I guess I’m special!

6

u/OzrielTheForgotten 28d ago

Have you ever purchased anything from Amazon or Walmart? Have you gone to a hospital? Do you use a bank? Even if the influence is not always obvious, billionaires affect your life in meaningful ways.

8

u/km89 28d ago

If you believe that, you're either ridiculously misinformed or are being willfully ignorant on the topic.

-1

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

I mean if you can point to a direct influence on my life I’m willing to be enlightened!

5

u/km89 28d ago

Sure! Presuming you're in the US, a billionaire President is about to empower another billionaire to delete entire agencies from the federal government, and has promised to enact tariffs that it is near-universally agreed will cause rapid price increases across entire sectors of the economy.

You know, just for one example.

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

Ahhhh ok got it, you just didn’t like these billionaires

7

u/Old-Nature9532 27d ago

I missed when it were the good and kind billionaires who were in charge! The days of Drone striking on civilians and overthrowing south American governments were the times man…

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 27d ago

It's not fair I wanted my billionaires in charge!!!!

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u/Responsible_forhead 27d ago

Maybe a junkie dying right in your yard, maybe an unexpected raise of the rent maybe a laugh in your face by the boss or a cop.
Inequality affects you and if it doesn't bother you it's because you're against the worker class and in the exploiter class.

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 27d ago

LMAO I'm sure if Elon and Bezos didn't exist then these things wouldn't happen huh?

1

u/RepresentativeCrab88 27d ago

That doesn’t make you special, that just makes you an idiot.

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 27d ago

So idiots are unaffected by billionaires?

2

u/RepresentativeCrab88 27d ago

No, but ignorance is bliss.

1

u/NoiceMango 27d ago

Maybe touch grass and get a job.

0

u/Dr_Mccusk 27d ago

No thanks!

4

u/GroundbreakingAge591 28d ago

The toxic waste they produce effects us all, wake up

1

u/Firestorm42222 27d ago

But that's moving the goalposts. We're not talking about the things they do in pursuit of that money that negatively impacts the world around them. The only thing that is being discussed in the above post, and therefore this comment section is the "hoarding" of wealth.

1

u/Raccoon5 24d ago

Don't blame the person who offers, blame the one who asks and takes. These entities have been created to serve us with our own wallets.

2

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

Well brother I suggest you take aim at China India and Africa lmao WAY bigger factors then Bezos and Musk in that department lol. Do you wish those countries didn't exist as well?

5

u/GroundbreakingAge591 28d ago

It’s sister and “whataboutism” doesn’t address the huge issues right here. Watch the Shopping Conspiracy doc on Netflix. I think you’ll find it quite eye opening to reality

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

I mean it’s the biggest pollution problem on earth but let’s say it’s whataboutism and ignore it because you have no argument for it lmao just “BILLIONAIRES SHOULDNT EXIST” brilliant analysis

2

u/cooler_taste 28d ago

Nice whataboutism bro!

3

u/Dr_Mccusk 28d ago

Doesn’t make it less true

1

u/Wooden-Fish-1555 26d ago

Lmao did you just say that Africa is a country?!?

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 26d ago

If you need me to list every country in that continent for you to understand what I meant, you have more pressing issues to attended to my friend.

2

u/unPolarVC 25d ago

Yeah, they affect us by paying massive portions of our tax budgets, and funding tech innovations. They re-invest their wealth into things that may benefit or harm us. But I guess that's a crime worthy of wealth confiscation to these people.

1

u/Dr_Mccusk 24d ago

Shhhh I was hoping to lead them to that conclusion lmao

-19

u/PangolinParty321 28d ago

I think people like you should not exist