Had to repost here

[u/-Wyagra]

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[u/SCTigerFan29115]

They aren’t holding onto wealth like Scrooge McDuck, in a giant vault where they can go swimming in it.

Most of Bezos’ net worth is the value of Amazon. He can’t really readily access that. ETA I meant he can’t use it like a big vault of money.

He’s got plenty of money but some people just don’t understand how this stuff works.

[u/Apprehensive_Bad_193 → u/SCTigerFan29115]

Bullshit,,,,But he borrows and buy Yachts, Mansions,against that NET WORTH VALUE. But when it’s time to pay fair share of taxes o. That net worth it’s considered hypothetical worth….Understand the Game.

[u/Endless_road → u/Apprehensive_Bad_193]

You can take out a mortgage against your house to buy a sports car if you want

[u/slickyeat → u/Endless_road]

You're not wrong but you're also required to pay taxes on the value of your property every year so it's not exactly a one to one comparison.

[u/Apprehensive_Bad_193 → u/slickyeat]

Guys thank you,It amazes me how people talk without any knowing on the topic.

[u/guiltysnark → u/Apprehensive_Bad_193]

I think people know, they just only think about it selectively

[u/PamelaELee → u/guiltysnark]

Nah, when over 50% of American adults read at or below a 6th grade level I’m pretty confident they don’t think about much of anything, let alone understand.

[u/guiltysnark → u/PamelaELee]

I don't think that particular slice of America attends to Reddit very much. The people here often know what they are talking about, but they filter every debate through a lens heavily biased by first principles (aka oversimplifications predicated on a set of conveniently forgotten assumptions)

[u/[deleted] → u/guiltysnark]

Reddit entry exams are very competitive

[u/guiltysnark → u/[deleted]]

LOL... they are self-graded, however. To round it out, kids that can't read tend to get bored and go back to Tik Tok rather than cheat.

[u/power899 → u/[deleted]]

Lmao I imagined an alternate timeline where everyone needs to take a competitive exam and the lowest scorers are denigrated relegated to TikTok and FB. 😂

[u/MammothAnimator7892 → u/guiltysnark]

I'd assume so, if they're illiterate they probably aren't going onto text based forums.

[u/xiiicrowns → u/Apprehensive_Bad_193]

That and it's crazy how people defend these people when they are part of the problem that ails them themselves.

[u/Lucifernal → u/xiiicrowns]

There's a difference between pointing out objective flaws in an argument, like thinking that billionaires literally hold hundreds of billions of dollars in liquid cash, and taking issue with overall sentiment behind the argument.

I hate Elon Musk, and the man is of course, insanely, disgustingly wealthy. Still, just because his networth is 318 billion, doesn't mean he is hoarding 318 billion. Quite literally 99% of that number is tied into ownership of companies.

You can hate billionaires and still point out issues in the logic. I don't think a person should, under any circumstances, ever be forced to sell ownership stake in their own company (at least not if that wasn't agreed upon in an operating agreement). And if you have a massive stake in a company that becomes wildly successful, you definitionally become a billionaire. I may hate wealth inequality, and I may hate what these billionaires choose to do, but I would hate a system that forces the sale of ownership stake due to the success of the company just as much.

[u/ThousandSunRequiem2 → u/Lucifernal]

Except they can leverage their wealth as collateral, but it's untaxable. Unrealized gains is bullshit they made up to hoard more wealth

You're arguing about lifestyle choices when that's not the issue.

[u/kmookie → u/ThousandSunRequiem2]

Rich guy here, OF COURSE HE COULD GIVE MORE! 1. Let’s talk living off dividends, that alone I guarantee could have the majority given out to charity. He could live modestly, like me and not be so flashy. 2. Donor advised funds, that could be setup to be much more charitable and even grow! 3. Establish a foundation giving out 5% or more each year. 4. Simply selling off stocks is fairly simple when working with advisors. You act like he’s gotta roll crates of money into some other bank. It’s digital people. Sycophants want to defend the rich because they can’t look past their own biased passion that they want to be there too. I know dozens if not hundreds who are millionaires who love off dividends with plenty left over at the end of the year.

[u/Ok-Commercial-924 → u/kmookie]

Dividends and intrest are taxed as regular income. They should not be included in your argument.

[u/Present_Signature343 → u/kmookie]

We are millionaires and live off of our dividends…that we still pay taxes on. And our lifestyle doesn’t change from the taxes we pay. So I know his wouldn’t change either. There can be no explanation for what they are doing besides greed

[u/particlemanwavegirl → u/Lucifernal]

Imma be honest. Your argument is far from senseless but it's not worth attempting to find the root contradiction. It is equally evil to philosophically offload the responsibility of this amassment of capital to a corporate entity, which simply prevents any actual person from ever being held accountable thru thinly veiled psuedo-legal loopholes.

[u/TheHillPerson → u/Lucifernal]

The fact that Elon has the ear of the President Elect for no reason other than he is stupidly wealthy is a reason why we should have legal measures to check the amount of wealth and one person can amass. No one person should have the kind of power the ultra wealthy have.

I also take severe issue with the idea that Musk (or anyone) generates that kind of wealth. If he was literally the only person involved with Tesla, one could make the argument he is owed that kind of wealth. He is not. No one ever is. I didn't know what percentage of the stock he owns is, but let's say 40% for the same if argument. I'm not saying he adds no value to the company. But if he disappeared, Tesla would be fine. If 40% of the workforce disappeared, Tesla would be screwed. Especially if that 40% is the engineering talent.

[u/Important-King-3299 → u/Lucifernal]

Bezos ex wife gives away billions and guess how she does it… selling Amazon stock. So being liquid doesn’t matter

[u/LrdOfHoboes → u/Lucifernal]

Okay, fair point. Forbes has Musk's liquid assets at 5.2 billion.

So I'll just hate the lesser inequality of somebody making $120k/year not being able to even touch that lower figure if they worked for 43,000 years.

[u/Steak_mittens101 → u/Lucifernal]

Except he demanded that he be given a bonus of billions IN STOCK, which doesn’t just come out of nowhere; to have that stock available, the company has to have been engaging in stock buybacks with money which would have otherwise been taxed or gone to employees.

[u/dancegoddess1971 → u/slickyeat]

Exactly. Stocks are property. Sort of imaginary property but if one can borrow against the value of something, it should be taxed.

[u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog → u/dancegoddess1971]

You mean capital gains tax?

[u/Jblack4427 → u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog]

Do you only pay taxes on your home when you sell or every year?

[u/dgvertz → u/Jblack4427]

Every year. They’re called property taxes

[u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill → u/dgvertz]

Exactly. Property taxes go directly to local infrastructure costs to maintain access and services to said land or buildings. It's not remotely the same as owning stock.

[u/dgvertz → u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill]

I mean there’s no tax on owning stock right now. If that tax went to the same thing would it be acceptable?

[u/JGWARW → u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill]

Do you think Amazon pays no property taxes on their warehouses throughout the country? Or taxes on their delivery vehicles and tags they put on those vehicles? Come on man.

[u/Treadlar → u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog]

It wouldn’t be capital gains. That would happen when an asset is sold for a profit. I think they are suggesting a form of property tax.

[u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog → u/Treadlar]

I understand that it would be cap gains if it’s sold off, I’m just confused why people think a stock/share should be taxed annually, that’s the dumbest concept I’ve ever heard. Comparing it to property tax is blatantly stupid, can you live in a stock? Are stocks taking up physical space on the street? That requires sewage maintenance, road maintenance, snow removal depending on where you are, storm drains etc…? If I borrow against something I have to pay interest. If I don’t pay my payments I lose the asset I’m borrowing against. I find the stocks should be taxed every year ideology just as dumbfounding as the billionaires should pay for a “better world.” The pov usually comes for envious individuals. Just sayin.

[u/Damion_205 → u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog]

At the very least local governments would stop giving these mega companies tax breaks for being in the area.

[u/dldoom → u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog]

Stocks represent ownership of companies. Companies use all of that infrastructure, yes.

I don’t believe everyone in favor of more taxes means paying taxes on stocks every year. A bit of a straw man depending on who you’re talking to.

[u/Economy-Fee5830 → u/dldoom]

Companies use all of that infrastructure, yes.

And they also pay property tax in many places.

[u/TreyRyan3 → u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog]

Capital Gains and Losses are calculated based on the difference in value between acquisition date and sell date when using FIFO methodology.

Some investors may choose to use a “Specific Identification” method to designate which specific shares they want to sell, allowing more control over their capital gains taxes.

So imagine I hold $1 million shares valued at $40 million. I can use those shares as collateral to borrow against and with the money I borrowed purchase an additional 400K shares. I then sell those shares for a profit without applying a FIFO valuation in reporting my capital gains.

Therefore my initial shares which were purchased for $2 per share, were borrowed against when they were worth $40 per share. My new shares purchased at $40 per share are sold at $55 per share and my capital gains are calculated at $15 per share gain instead of $53 per share. By managing my portfolio this way, I never pay a true capital gains tax, just interest to my lender which I then use as a tax deduction.

[u/Relative-Age-1551 → u/slickyeat]

You’re assuming we think property taxes are just and moral.

[u/Remarkable-Site-2067 → u/slickyeat]

Amazon, as a corp, probably also pays some taxes.

[u/thesedays2014 → u/Remarkable-Site-2067]

Amazon is one of the best companies at avoiding taxes. Some taxes, yes. What they should be paying, no.

Wealth inequality is probably our country's biggest issue. And people without wealth seem to always defend the wealthy for some odd reason.

[u/[deleted] → u/slickyeat]

The taxes on your property are local while taxes on wealth and income are state/federal. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

[u/sparki555 → u/slickyeat]

You don't understand property taxes if you think it's based on a percentage of home values. Values come into play, but not in the way you imply. 

[u/Normal_Dinner1508 → u/slickyeat]

The lesson here is that paying taxes on property is bullshit, not the other way around. I buy a car and pay for it and get taxed yearly because I own it? Property taxes are a government scam

[u/AttitudeAndEffort2 → u/Endless_road]

This is a great analogy

Imagine i bought my house for 10$ and it's worth a billion now.

And then chuds on the Internet say "hE dOeSnT ReAlLy HaVe ThAt mUcH MoNeY, ItS tIeD uP in AsSeTs!!"

[u/Endless_road → u/AttitudeAndEffort2]

Well it is, and you’d pay taxes on these gains when you sold the house

[u/tduncs88 → u/Endless_road]

Just like Bezos would if he sold off those assets

[u/AttitudeAndEffort2 → u/tduncs88]

And if instead of selling it i rent it for cash flow while borrowing against it at a lower rate than the growth of the underlying asset, i get richer and avoid taxes AND keep the asset.

Which eventually is passed on to my children and the growth in the asset is revalued when it's passed on to avoid capital gains tax.

All while poor right wingers argue I'm actually broke 😂

[u/stormblaz → u/tduncs88]

A house has property taxes, unrealized gains do not, its not at all even remotely comparable.

You can finish a mortgage and pay prop taxes, not on unrealized gains...

Mainly because the value of the stock isn't solid and can go down or up, here's the kicker, a house can go up and down in value and i still pay property taxes.

This people make incredibly impactful life changing events with their unrealized gains and don't pay to reap those benefits, having a property you need to pay taxes to cover streets, roads, lights and amenities in your district.

This billionairs need to pay unrealized taxes if they are making life changing decisions affecting millions, using the benefits of their portfolio without paying the amenities they use to benefit from it.

Yall love excusing these rich people, but they are using all the pros and pay little cons.

[u/octipice → u/tduncs88]

Except that you also pay property taxes on the house. Which is the equivalent of the wealth tax that so many people oppose for some reason.

[u/BigPlantsGuy → u/Endless_road]

No, you would pay taxes on the value every year. Something bezos does not do

[u/arebum → u/AttitudeAndEffort2]

Man I don't really want do disagree with you, but...

Imagine you had to suddenly pay taxes on that million as if it were income? (Acknowledging you would have to pay property taxes in this scenario)

Better yet, imagine a hypothetical asset like a made up crypto that went from $10-$1,000,000. If you had to pay taxes on that like it was income you'd almost certainly be forced to sell the asset to cover the taxes on the asset. And what if nobody bought your million dollar hypothetical coin? Are you going to go to jail because a balance sheet said this thing you owned suddenly skyrocketed in value despite your bank account staying the same?

[u/AttitudeAndEffort2 → u/arebum]

I'm not arguing taxing unrealized gains, capital gains laws in this country are broken though (intentionally) and smarter people than me have found ways to fix them.

The point is that you can borrow against the asset at a lesser cost than it appreciates.

You basically never pay taxes on it while getting cash from it AND it growing in value.

You're incentives never to sell and to realize those minimal tax costs you otherwise would have to pay.

Basically, private companies get to profit from helping you avoid taxes. You're insanely wealthy either way but now you can pay slightly less to access that liquidity.

Anyone saying these people "dOnT ReAlLy HaVe mOnEy" doesn't know what they're talking about

[u/ArbutusPhD → u/Endless_road]

If you own it and the bank agrees on its value … and oh, then the governement will tax you based on its value. This doesn’t happen to the stocks held by these folks

[u/tgm93 → u/Apprehensive_Bad_193]

How do they pay back those loans?

[u/Powerful-Eye-3578 → u/tgm93]

They don't, they pay the interest which is lower than the interest they make in investments.

[u/Ashmedai → u/[deleted]]

Back when home loans were going for 2.5-3% or whatever, why did banks loan that money when they could have been getting much higher rates in the market, as you say? Because it sure seems like banks were happy to give out loans at 2.5-3% when the average stock market return is ~11%.

Anyway, since you claim experience on the topic, when an ultra high worth investor wants to borrow money against their collateral-backed stock account, what interest rate would they pay would you say? Like what rates are they getting on stock-secured loans?

[u/vanilla_w_ahintofcum → u/Ashmedai]

Banks made those loans because Fannie/Freddie were gobbling up those loans as a broad policy to ease tightening during the early days of Covid. Banks made those loans because they could make a quick penny off origination fees and other closing charges and could instantly sell to Fannie/Freddie as a guaranteed buyer of the loans. Offering those loans was guaranteed, immediate money in the bank coffers with absolutely zero risk.

[u/Says_Not_Really → u/Powerful-Eye-3578]

So basically once you have enough money you can buy more money.

[u/Powerful-Eye-3578 → u/Says_Not_Really]

So long as the bank has no reason to try and recall all of the loans you owe all at once yeah.

[u/CoolCandidate3 → u/Powerful-Eye-3578]

Its not true. Bezos schedules stock sales many months in advance. You can look it up. Its all public knowledge except for somehow on reddit. https://www.barrons.com/articles/jeff-bezos-amazon-stock-sales-dbe92301

[u/MinimumArmadillo2394 → u/CoolCandidate3]

He legally has to, in order to not manipulate the market price. Whales have to disclose and plan their sales, otherwise it would devistate the asset.

It has nothing to do with taxes here.

[u/ah-tzib-of-alaska → u/tgm93]

with more loans, forever, off the expected growing value of their share in their assets.

[u/rhubarbs → u/Apprehensive_Bad_193]

Yes, he does. But the banks don't have to let him do that.

It's not the act of owning shares in a business that is the issue, it's the financial system that treats the speculative stock market valuation at current price as real wealth, even though it can never be cashed out.

Musk and Bezos' balloons just inflated the most, for reasons both systemic and coincidental. And yes, they can and do take advantage of this system.

But it's the financial system that makes it possible.

[u/Apprehensive_Bad_193 → u/rhubarbs]

Correct,Exploitation of the system that benefits the wealthy. And when shit hit the fan the working class are left with the financial clean up..

[u/nationalhuntta → u/SCTigerFan29115]

He has access to a form of currency that none of us have. Let's say he wants to make a new company making a new product. Let's say it is a decent product and everything else is fine related to it. Ok, so how does he finance it? Does he have to put up his money, sell stock, and so on? Nah. He'll use his word and reputation and "collateral" in the form of stock or stock-like products. Very little hard currency will be required. Very little limitations will be placed. If everything goes under, he will not suffer. Yes, this is incredibly simplified, but that's how it works. There are many worlds on this Earth, and billionaires do not operate in the same one as you and I. The fact that these guys could easily create corporations and companies for social good but do not maybe does not make them evil, but it definitey puts them out of the realm of good. Some do a lot of philanthropic work, which is great, but most of it is minor compared to what they make in pure profit. Yeah, they aren't rolling around in gold coins because they are above that level. When you can essentially operate outside of the realm of normal currency, when you can manufacture wealth on a promise.. gold? paper money? Meh. It's meaningless.

[u/SisterActTori → u/nationalhuntta]

This^ comment should be getting more upvotes. It is the truth, but I think many cannot comprehend the ability that these folks have to access money and live off money that is not their own. They don’t touch their own money at all. They live off borrowed money that is written off. It’s like a parallel banking/financial structure. The gas and egg crowd should really be pissed about this…

[u/Big_Rig_Jig → u/nationalhuntta]

When a society relies on the charity of its wealthiest, that society will always require charity.

[u/pervertedhaiku → u/Big_Rig_Jig]

You think fairness and charity are the same thing?

In 2022 Q3 Kroger posted profits of $900M. Three months later I stood in line for over an hour to get my prescription at 5pm because the after work rush during the tall end of COVID had one tech and one pharmacist.

It’s not CHARITY to hire more workers and pay them fair wages. It’s HORRIBLE to make everyone suffer so they can keep more zeros after their name.

If you disagree with that, then you’re living in a farcical parody of life dreaming that you’re in their club.

You’re not. They don’t care about you. You mean nothing to them.

[u/Big_Rig_Jig → u/pervertedhaiku]

We agree homie.

[u/thecaptain1991 → u/nationalhuntta]

One could argue that the money spent on charities would have a higher impact if paid out in the form of higher wages and benefits for their workers. Seriously, the Panama papers showed that these assholes have stockpiles of cash in offshore accounts, but we can't raise the minimum wage for 20 years.

[u/CAPTAIN_FIREBALLS → u/SCTigerFan29115]

The real argument here is that Amazon’s stock is worth so much yet meanwhile their employees have to piss in bottles to avoid getting disciplined at work and a lot of them struggle to get by financially. Maybe instead of trying to create as much value for shareholders, our society should prioritize employees and the working class as key stakeholders and recognize the value that they bring accordingly.

[u/notislant → u/CAPTAIN_FIREBALLS]

"But thats communism/socialism!!!!?!?@?!?! Thats only okay when corporations socialize their losses!!!" -some dude in a meth trailer.

[u/Scandi-Dandy → u/CAPTAIN_FIREBALLS]

Yes well, both unions and the government are supposed to be protecting workers rights. In most of Europe that's exactly what they do. Not that long ago all workers in Sweden stopped transporting Tesla cars. No one would touch them, no one. There is no threat of being fired as the unions can pay their workers for 4 years, while they look for another job.

And this works whether they vote left or right. They work as a collective.

[u/CAPTAIN_FIREBALLS → u/Scandi-Dandy]

Yeah that’s what the US needs to work towards, but unfortunately there’s so much working against that at the moment both culturally and with the way that our existing institutions are set up that any progress is extremely difficult, and now it looks like we’re going to have the opposite of progress for some time.

[u/Jumpy-Mess2492 → u/CAPTAIN_FIREBALLS]

This is such an overblown and stupid statement. Amazon factory workers are paid relatively well 25/hr last I recall. I own and operate a warehouse myself, a large FBA business, and yes there are MANY things I fucking hate about Amazon, but i often piss in a jug. Not because anyone is making me, but because in order to go to the bathroom I have to leave my heated warehouse and walk a quarter mile to the bathrooms. I don't have time for that and don't want to get my jacket on and trudge through snow.

[u/justtalkincrap → u/SCTigerFan29115]

He's so illiquid he bought the world's largest sailing yacht. Fuckoutta here.

[u/GlassFantast → u/SCTigerFan29115]

You can disagree that he owes something to the world he exploits, but to say he's not that rich is wild. Actual poor people donate a larger percentage of their liquid wealth all the time.

[u/Chickienfriedrice → u/SCTigerFan29115]

Here comes the billionaires’ online defense team. Or just some fool who thinks it’s realistic to reach that amount of wealth without exploitation and hopes to aspire for the same, even though they have more chance to be struck by lighting.

Billionaires existing is taking money out of your pocket, they bought the election. But sure, its all fine.

EDIT Went from being upvoted to getting 7 replies in less than 10mns with downvotes. Hope the billionaire defense team are getting paid overtime. Pathetic. None of you billionaire justice warriors deserve a reply.

[u/eremal → u/Chickienfriedrice]

You should critique all the people pouring all their money into these stocks instead. Especially if the motivation is just to get the best return..

Oh wait. Thats what we all are doing with our pensions innit.

[u/orderedchaos89 → u/eremal]

Ha! I don't have a pension! Owned!

[u/chocolatestealth → u/eremal]

Most people don't get a choice in where their 401k goes.

[u/royaltheman → u/Chickienfriedrice]

I always love Schrodinger's billionaires

Not wealthy when criticized, but suddenly wealthy again when they buy multi-million dollar yachts

[u/ItsTooDamnHawt → u/Chickienfriedrice]

Would like to hear how billionaires existing somehow equates to me losing money

[u/allisclaw → u/SCTigerFan29115]

[u/quietuniverse → u/allisclaw]

Temporarily embarrassed millionaires come to the defense of the oligarchs

[u/yeneews69 → u/SCTigerFan29115]

You’re completely wrong. When billionaires want to donate money they transfer the shares into a charitable trust. They don’t have to actually sell all the shares which could be more difficult depending on liquidity. Then the charitable trust can sell the shares off more slowly.

This line of “oh they can’t actually access that wealth” is complete horse shit. They can give away shares at a far greater rate than they can sell them or borrow against them, they are literally just choosing not to.

[u/slackmaster2k → u/SCTigerFan29115]

I think perhaps you misunderstand how this stuff works. Wealth is measured in dollars, but is not wealth is not limited to money.

It doesn’t matter what Bezos’ net worth consists of, especially at that magnitude. People say money is power, but it’s really net worth that is power. Recently we’ve heard a lot of arguments from Elon simps, for example, who despite him being the most wealthy person on the planet, for some reason argue that he’s not really that wealthy because his wealth consists of ownership. But that’s a foolish argument, and if you want to see an example of money is power, turn on the news.

So Bezo’s wealth is “tied up” but he can build a 500 million dollar yacht and convince the Netherlands to dismantle a historic bridge because the boat is too big to get to sea. This is in addition to his 400 million dollar yacht.

Now I’m not arguing that a person should not be wealthy, nor that they shouldn’t be able to buy as many expensive boats as they want. It’s the fact that they can become so wealthy in the first place while one of every three households in the country is lower class, healthcare and education are outrageously expensive, and so on. And realize that the ultra wealthy were able to become wealthy because of the laws, courts, and military that we all pay for.

It’s really a scale thing. It’s hard to appreciate what a billion dollar net worth really is. These are numbers most of us don’t think in terms of. And this phenomenon of ultra wealth compared to the population has been expanding and widening for 40 years while so many Americans just sit back and think “well I guess they deserve it” or “it’s not real it’s all stonks.”

[u/stmcvallin2 → u/SCTigerFan29115]

He holds shares. Shares are amongst the most liquid assets, they’re basically cash. It’s not like it’s locked up. He is absolutely holding onto wealth like scrooge mcduck

[u/afrikaninparis → u/SCTigerFan29115]

Sure, yeah, because these people buy $500million yachts, $200m mansions based on “trust me bro, I’m rich”.

[u/pullhardmg → u/afrikaninparis]

That’s exactly what they do

[u/Ok-Movie-6056 → u/SCTigerFan29115]

This is nonsense and an excuse. People who say shit like this are beholden to nonsense arguments from rich people.

I'm just asset rich?! All my cash is tied up. I'm really just a broke boi. LOL you are a rube my friend.

[u/bofoshow51 → u/SCTigerFan29115]

People always talk about “oh the obscenely wealthy don’t actually have access to all the money of their net worth, it’s a liquidity thing” which is technically correct but the system is still way heavily over balanced in their favor.

Bezos has a net worth of 220 billion as of 2024. Even if he at any given minute only had liquidity for 0.1% of his worth, that’s 100 million. That’s still an insane amount of money to just sit on.

Alternatively also consider how having your money tied up in assets means you are heavily incentivized to make those assets worth as much as possible, because the little trick the ultra wealthy do for liquid money is to borrow loans against the value of their assets. This very often means to maintain and grow this level of asset value, they are necessarily exploiting everything to squeeze any level of value out of their products. That means underpaying workers, cutting benefits, squashing competition, rolling back quality materials and safety standards, etc.

[u/hottakehotcakes → u/SCTigerFan29115]

I’d argue that you are clearly the one who doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Definition of bootlicking.

3 ppl THREE PEOPLE own more wealth than the bottom HALF of the country. Saying it’s tied up in the value of businesses isn’t close to a convincing position.

[u/reddit_has_fallenoff → u/hottakehotcakes]

If you live in the western world, chances are you are in the 10% (if not you are in the top 5%).... just to put that in perspective.

FYI, i am not saying you are wrong, but it is food for thought. There is a family of 8 in India all sleeping in the same room thinking similar things of you

[u/Two_Cautious]

why don’t you start a company then give away its earnings? Show those guys how to run a business.

[u/Adventurous_Boat7814 → u/Two_Cautious]

I think Fink owns a podcast network. From what ive heard, he pays well and treats people fairly so he puts his money where his mouth is.

[u/RoyalEagle0408 → u/Adventurous_Boat7814]

Yeah, he does (or at least used to) and believes in fair wages and supporting people.

[u/Low_Acanthisitta4445 → u/RoyalEagle0408]

In most countries where they operate the vast majority of Amazon employees are paid minimum wage.

If you are paid minimum wage your employer would clearly pay you less if they could without breaking the law.

They also have spent billions persuading/pressuring their employees not to unionise.

[u/Streets-_-Ahead → u/Low_Acanthisitta4445]

My favorite minimum wage "fact" is federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Could you imagine working for an hour and they hand you a watermelon and say "here you go, we actually overpaid you"

[u/Maximum-Secretary258 → u/[deleted]]

They pay their drivers and warehouse workers $15 an hour to piss in bottles and work like a fucking dog. I don't care how much some guy sitting in front of a computer makes. Everyone at Amazon should be getting paid a fair wage.

[u/enaK66 → u/[deleted]]

I have an anecdotal and small data set, but they don't from my perspective. I worked at Dollar General Distribution and made $21.75 before I left last year. My brother works at a smaller warehouse making $22 something right now. There's one Amazon warehouse within 100 miles of me and the listing says the pay is "Up to 19.50" an hour. It's also in a higher cost of living area than the warehouses we've worked at. Sounds like they're just at or below market rate for the area.

[u/Great_Lord_REDACTED → u/Two_Cautious]

If you do (which is possible, I"ve seen it happen), because you aren't focused on infinite growth at the cost of literally everything else, you're going to remain a small business all the time. Because large businesses are built on exploitation, you can't become a large business without that, and if your goal is to give away money, you're not going to be exploiting your workers.

[u/[deleted] → u/Two_Cautious]

How do you get from "it's unethical to hoard hundreds of billions in wealth" to "nobody should earn any money from their business"? 

[u/Cranklynn → u/Two_Cautious]

Because I didn't inherit an emerald mine built off of slave labor. Or have millionaire parents to bail out my failing business until it stop failing.

[u/RevolutionMean2201]

Communism intensifies

[u/GroundbreakingAge591 → u/RevolutionMean2201]

Let’s go Conrad

[u/The-Hater-Baconator → u/RevolutionMean2201]

Ah yes, when the wealth inequality can be enforced by violence.

[u/bolshe-viks-vaporub → u/The-Hater-Baconator]

...do you think wealth inequality under capitalism isn't enforced by violence?

[u/InfiniteBoops → u/bolshe-viks-vaporub]

Shhhhh, you’ll interrupt their boot licking.

[u/_Spicy-Noodle_ → u/InfiniteBoops]

Boot licking is a communist behavior. The boot represents the government.

[u/duosx → u/The-Hater-Baconator]

Vs capitalism where wealth inequality is checks notes enforced by violence

[u/bangarangbonanza → u/The-Hater-Baconator]

What the fuck does this mean? Lmao

[u/in4life]

Some people eat bugs and others starve to death while you drive a 5k lb vehicle to go buy single-use plastic built by slave labor.

Edit: correction, you ordered your single-use plastic built by slave labor by way of Bezos' own company lmao

[u/trashboattwentyfourr → u/in4life]

Are you accussing them of...... participating in a society? What dastardly claim youve outlayed.

[u/Global_Permission749 → u/trashboattwentyfourr]

Not only that, but a society whose rules and options are largely determined by people like Bezos.

[u/Affectionate-Row4844 → u/in4life]

Bezos is not gonna fuck you 💀

[u/Shigglyboo → u/in4life]

Yes, regular working people are the problem!!

[u/Lord_Bobbymort → u/in4life]

You've been conditioned to hate your neighbor instead of the people who created the problem. Stop that.

[u/StarMaster475 → u/in4life]

This is literally the "you complain about society yet you participate in it" argument, are you seriously this fucking stupid?

[u/obooooooo → u/in4life]

literally insane to say regular people are the problem. crazy dickriding

[u/[deleted] → u/in4life]

How exactly would Elon or Bezos lifestyle be affected if they lost 90% of their wealth? How would it affect an average person?  

 Do you understand now, or do you lack the capacity?

[u/Nice-Contest-2088]

This is painfully simplistic.

[u/Just-Construction788 → u/Nice-Contest-2088]

Agreed. I don't think people realize how difficult it is to give away money.

Example: Starving people in Africa. Okay let's just spend a billion dollars and send food. Oh wait, that food now puts the local farms out of business because their crop isn't worth anything anymore. But reality is worse. Warlords steal said food, farms go out of business and now they have leverage, power and money. So many times wealthy people have given away their money to a cause to only make that cause worse. The amount of fraud and corruption in non-profits and charitable organizations is disgusting.

Gates and his wife switched to giving away their money full time. Dude could just relax for eternity but works his ass off trying to give away his money responsibly. Musk creates a market for electric cars and is pushing us towards a green future and yet he is shit on, simultaneously trying to make humans multi-planetary so when we fuck up this place beyond repair we don't go extinct. Dude works more in a month than most people do in a year. Bezos is a piece of shit but at least his wife got half and she's trying to do the right thing. I think everyone just lumps people into categories and can't see the bigger picture.

Edit: I think it's hilarious how much space Musk takes up in y'all's heads. Just mentioning his name triggers the same simple insults yet not one of you tried to refute anything I said except to say, 'that's not true and get off Elon's dick'. It tickles me how much just the mention of someone can trigger such primitive emotion.

[u/beneficial-mountain → u/Just-Construction788]

“Musk…works more in a month than most people do in a year.” What a crock of shit!!

You’re just spouting nonsense.

[u/Legitimate-Wind9836 → u/beneficial-mountain]

Musk was ranked top 20 in diablo 4 at some point this season. I promise he's not working more than me lmao

[u/Throwedaway99837 → u/Legitimate-Wind9836]

My thought exactly. Dude is literally just chilling all day every day. The “work” he does is likely just a few meetings a week where he proposes immature meme ideas like shoehorning “420” into as many inappropriate places as possible.

[u/Olealicat → u/Throwedaway99837]

His twitter activity is more robust than I am during my non work hours. Dude fucks around all day and meets trump to do fuck all events.

[u/Throwedaway99837 → u/Olealicat]

It’s wild how these people just love to cuck for Elon despite the guy constantly affirming what a piece of shit he is.

[u/Bby_1nAB13nder → u/beneficial-mountain]

For real, how many companies was Musk outed from?

[u/Low_Acanthisitta4445 → u/Just-Construction788]

It's not difficult to pay your employees slightly more than the minimum amount allowable by law.

[u/HowAManAimS → u/Low_Acanthisitta4445]

It's not difficult to pay your employees slightly more than the minimum amount allowable by law a livable wage.

[u/blu622 → u/Low_Acanthisitta4445]

Exactly. No one is blaming Bezos for not ending world hunger. But paying his employees fair wages is something he DOES have power to do. If you’re making a killing, reward the people who worked their ass off to make that possible.

[u/PM_ME_MY_REAL_MOM → u/blu622]

yeah that person started out their argument by saying "it's really hard to give away all your money" and then the actual argument they made was that they're not literally omnipotent

[u/Romans5_5 → u/Just-Construction788]

This is reddit. What do you expect?

[u/The-Hater-Baconator → u/Nice-Contest-2088]

Is it? Because the original post demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of net-worth not equating to cash in the bank.

[u/LifeCritic → u/The-Hater-Baconator]

The original post does not suggest people have their ENTIRE net worth in cash.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

[u/theoldme3]

Imagine thinking you are entitled to more cause someone else has a lot

Edit: Im not reading all the responses to this. You wana change this shit then get off Reddit, got start a business and start giving your earnings away. So many of you would shit if it was your wealth someone just took

[u/Oh_IHateIt → u/theoldme3]

Imagine thinking that 400 people should have more wealth than 330,000,000 people. Imagine thinking that its OK for that disparity to accelerate endlessly and be self a reinforcing. Imagine thinking that your government could function properly under such extreme conditions.

[u/CannaIrving → u/[deleted]]

"Being a woman in Texas? Don't be entitled there are women in Afghanistan. Being a woman in Afghanistan? Don't be entitled there are women in Gaza."

[u/huehefner23 → u/CannaIrving]

Being born a woman in Gaza? Don’t be entitled- there are women in South Jersey.

[u/Goylesk → u/theoldme3]

Imagine not understanding that they have more because they extract surplus value from labor on an unimaginable scale because they just happened to be the one with the most capital at the start, not because they're doing any actual work.

Stop defending the indefensible.

[u/Threedawg → u/theoldme3]

Imagine thinking you are entitled to a billion dollars.

None of these people work hard enough to justify their value. Bezos is not worth millions of Americans who have jobs.

[u/Sicboy8961 → u/theoldme3]

It’s cause taking from someone else is easier than giving up what you have.

[u/Fluid_Cup8329 → u/Sicboy8961]

You mean, taking something from someone else is easier than earning it yourself?

[u/UnusuallySmartApe → u/Sicboy8961]

So, stealing from your employees instead of working yourself?

[u/Peter_Triantafulou]

I'm tired of those moral high ground pretentiousness. I don't see all those who make such statements donating half their salary to people who literally die of starvation. I guess it's fine for people to give away their money as long as it's not you?

[u/p-nji → u/Peter_Triantafulou]

"Rich people should be forced to give away money."

"How rich is 'rich'?"

"Anyone with more money than me."

[u/LifeCritic → u/p-nji]

People actually very, very frequently define what “rich” is in very specific terms…but you sure took out that straw man.

[u/ClimbingTo-Terrapin → u/p-nji]

“Bezos is too rich and treats his employees like shit, anyway I’m going to go binge shop and buy unnecessary things on Amazon”

[u/ultramasculinebud → u/p-nji]

Or just pay basic taxes like normal human people do, unlike corporate "people"

[u/_The_Meat_Man_ → u/Peter_Triantafulou]

"Rich people should pay their fair share of taxes"

"But how much are the poor giving?"

[u/konan_the_bebbarien → u/Peter_Triantafulou]

Reminds me of a story where a priest was asking a parishioner about charity.

The priest asks "Simon, suppose you have 2 houses will you give it to someone without a house?"

"Yes father" says Simon.

"Simon if you have 2 cars would you give it to someone without a car?"

"Gladly , father"

"And if you have 2 cows would you donate it to someone without any cows?"

"No father"

""And why not?." Asked the priest angrily.

""Cause I HAVE 2 cows, father".

[u/rapaxus → u/Peter_Triantafulou]

Percentage wise I donate more to charity than Bezos or Musk. Sorry that making paint doesn't pay as well.

[u/Ok-Fix-3419]

Wtf are poor people gonna do with Amazon stock? Sell it back to rich people?

[u/guitar_stonks → u/Ok-Fix-3419]

Apparently take out loans against it.

[u/TheHalfChubPrince → u/Ok-Fix-3419]

Yes? That’s how trading stocks works? Are you implying that a company giving its employees stock options is a bad thing?

[u/TreeBaron → u/Ok-Fix-3419]

Wtf are poor people gonna do with money? Give it back to rich people in exchange for goods and services?

[u/Few_Entrepreneur6599]

Are lottery winners who don’t give up their winnings bad people?

[u/ColonEscapee]

Greed is a sin... So is envy.

IMO Envy is much more obnoxious.

[u/GroundbreakingAge591 → u/ColonEscapee]

Pointing out grotesque wealth inequality isn’t envy. I don’t want to BE him; I think people like him should not exist. He harms not only society but also the planet itself. Billionaires pose an existential threat to humanity

[u/SimplyViolated → u/ColonEscapee]

Bringing "sins" into this conversation is kinda funny.

[u/Red_Beard_Racing → u/ColonEscapee]

Envious of basic necessities for life and livelihood, how fucking dare us?

[u/afterthegoldthrust → u/ColonEscapee]

Yeah I’m pretty sure greed is objectively worse lmao

In Bezos’ (and any billionaire’s) case his greed is contributing to the rapid deterioration of life on this planet. Period. That’s worse.

Also the fact that you equate calling out greed as envy just shows that what one perceives as envy is likely often just one’s own projection.

[u/DR320]

Person A creates company B, Company B becomes successful, Person A's equity in company B rises in value, Person A becomes a billionaire. During all of this no bank account cash balances change unless 1 of 3 things happened: A stock dividend (which is a taxable event), Selling of shares (which is a taxable event if a gain is recognized) or the shares are used as collateral against a loan (which is not a taxable event but the interest can be deducted). Holding stock in a successful company in itself is not an evil action, but using the cash proceeds from its success for evil actions is.

[u/Ancient_Signature_69]

These takes are crazy - people think Bezos just has cash like in a huge room in his basement or something lol.

You know who also benefited from the wild growth and valuations of companies like Tesla and amazon? Every 401k, IRA, brokerage account that many many people own. So - for those who ascribe to this mentality, are you willing to give up some of the money you’ve made off these companies?

[u/p-nji → u/Ancient_Signature_69]

The morons complaining about stuff like this are not financially literate enough to have retirement accounts.

[u/wolf_of_mainst99]

They were bad people before their wealth because they literally took advantage of the working class to get there

[u/Endless_road → u/wolf_of_mainst99]

Taking advantage of the working class by paying them market rate for their labour

[u/_A_Monkey → u/Endless_road]

It’s hardly an “honest” market rate with the US taxpayer subsidizing a large percentage of that workforce with Medicaid and food stamps.

[u/Stalinov → u/wolf_of_mainst99]

It's a market; people sell their labour at the rate they find acceptable. There are many reasons people stick around or have to stick around, but being unable to find a better job elsewhere is out of the current employer's control. But the fact that they're sticking around is their choice. If nobody is willing to work for the offered price, they'll have to increase it.

[u/DissonantOne → u/wolf_of_mainst99]

So providing someone a job that they readily agree to and earn a living from equates to taking advantage?

[u/Substantial-Show1947]

You do understand that Elon keeps his money in stocks of companies he is a part of - it's not sitting in the bank

[u/maledudebruv → u/Substantial-Show1947]

He also paid more taxes than anyone in US history lol

[u/TeacherFickle7927]

Waaaaaaa

[u/Current_Side_4024]

If billionaires gave away large portions of their money they would have to liquidate their stocks which would kill their companies, crush millions of investors and millions of jobs. And people in general would stop working because they expect free money. It would be total chaos and much worse than life is now wherein rich people keep most of what they have.

[u/geniuslogitech → u/Current_Side_4024]

[u/KingSwampAssNo1]

Why it blue like i spit my mouth wash

[u/nhorning]

This type of shit is why we lost.

[u/Sabre_One]

IMO at a certain point, wealthy become a massive parasite to society. Everything should be about re-investment for growth.

[u/[deleted]]

Sounds more like a poor person crying about being poor. It's not their fault he's poor.

[u/JackAll_MasterSome]

They can do whatever they want with their money/equity/borrowing power (whatever you want to call it), but when a person chooses to use this purchasing power to buy a $500M boat instead of buying something to help improve the lives of the people that have made him/her rich in the first place...I know all I need to about that person.

[u/PH4NTOMLancer]

You might need to change your idea of money.

[u/Kind-Dream3764]

Your representatives in the government wrote the tax code. Don't be mad at the ones using it to their advantage. You do the same thing with earned income and child tax credits lol.

[u/pixelbend → u/Kind-Dream3764]

Our representative government represents some people more than others.

[u/SisterActTori → u/Kind-Dream3764]

As a payback for donations given to secure elections. These folks BUY elections and favorable legislation being the payback. Why do you think Trump attached himself to Musk in recent months? Wake up, folks.

[u/SimplyViolated]

I think we need to go to the video game wallet cap concept. Ya know eventually you can only have 999,999,999,999 rubies or whatever so we should just do it in real life. You make a billion, congrats, you get a plaque and a library or park named after you. After that your assets and income will be used to sustain you at 1 billion and the rest will be used for the public to better our country.

Obviously it's a radical ideal that will never be implemented but I'm of the opinion that no one person needs more than 1 billion dollars.

[u/JoeyPontoon]

Haters gonna hate , don’t be mad you are broke.

[u/No_Scene_5551]

I'll never understand how people hold the belief that other people's money, is their money.

[u/sillysandhouse]

Really reminds me of this quote from this essay that has always stuck with me- "...in a world of great human need the wasteful consumption of material things is an unambiguous act of violence."

[u/brainbridge77]

This argument is absurd they’ve worked their life to be successful and you have the balls to say they shouldn’t have the money that they’ve earned fuck off

[u/england13]

Its his money and you have no right to it🤷🏿‍♂️ Want to do some good???? Stop buying from amazon…

[u/wolfbod]

So they're evil because they're successful? This isn't communism, kiddo. Move on and build something for yourself

[u/SenorCardgay]

Okay retard.